Jingthing

I agree. Obama made that mistake. Give the Russkies an arm, they'll take it all. That said it would have been massively harder back then to get western allies on-board as they are now. But Obama didn't even try except to do slap on them wrist stuff. From the US POv this shouldn't be partisan.

Vile flame troll bait ignored.

It's not semantics. It's reality. Palestinian Arabs living in Gaza and the west bank are not Israeli citizens so obviously at this point voting in Israeli elections is out of the question.

You are correct that Arab Israeli citizens have equal voting power. But Israelis as a whole (mostly Jews) are never going to freely vote to include Arabs in the west bank and Gaza in Israeli elections because that would be national suicide. Israelis should never be expected to commit national suicide. No country should be expected to commit national suicide. So any kind of one state solution will need to be with a system where Israel retains it's majority Jewish character in significant ways (as such a one state would put them in the minority). Israel was founded under political Zionist inspiration to be the only one state in the world with a Jewish majority. The Israeli right of return of Jews is linked to that. That principle won't be voluntary abandoned by Israelis.

In your opinion. As I said I don't have the answer. But if you accept as I do two state and one state equal voting is off the table, there aren't many options left at all, except the status quo and obviously the status quo is really bad. A strong majority of Israelis are fine with the status quo going on indefinitely. That's the most likely outcome for the forseeable future.

I wasn't suggesting an equivalence. It was a rough example of what might potentially be possible. Of course things ended tragically for Hong Kong.

Now you're really full of it if you're suggesting there isn't anti Jewish racism in Gaza and the west bank. Total B.S.!

They wouldn't think it's acceptable. I'm not saying that will happen but I do think two states, and one state with an Arab majority vote are off the table. I haven't pretended to be able to solve this conflict.

Expanding on that maybe something like Hong Kong used to, one country two systems.

Because they never will! Also to be fair the settlers tend to be very right wing Israelis. They wouldn't accept living under a Palestinian government even if the Palestinians allowed that. Yes it's a mess.

I get what you're saying. One state without equal voting power could be a possibility. If both sides find that at least OK, I doubt Israelis are going to lose much sleep being labelled an apartheid state. They are already labeled that.

OK. As I said before it's obvious that the majority of Palestinians don't want Israel to exist. Israel naturally has a problem with that.

You're being very naive. Previous peace activists were dealing with a different west bank. It's too late to dismantle all the west bank settlements. The majority on both sides know two state is over. It's a nice thing to talk about but it's too late. Of course there are liberal factions among Israeli Jews, but fewer and fewer numbers and you'll never see a majority of Israeli Jews voting for national suicide (one nation equal votes). If I had the answers that would be politically acceptable for both sides, I would say, but this situation is the opposite of simple.

A resolution of the conflict is not any kind of priority for any recent Israeli government. As I said I think both two stqte and one state with voting equality are off the table. There is probably some kind of better than the status quo compromise scheme that is possible but I couldn't tell you the details. I understand why Palestinians are angry but as far as how things got to where they are now, it's objectively wrong that they didn't play an important role in that. Starting with the Arab world attacking after 1948. Imagine if the Arab world had accepted the reality of Israel in 1948 and decided to peacefully cooperate with Israel in the development of the region. Instead they screwed themselves.

Isn't that from Hamas (Gaza) specifically? I do think most Palestinian Arabs favor the end of the state of Israel. Some are extreme in what to do about all the Jews there as most Israeli Jews were born in Israel, and some more moderate. But there is no way ANY Israeli government, liberal or conservative, is going to go for any of that and global people should not expect any nation to commit suicide.

If it was so simple, it would have hapenned already. I reckon you know perfectly well that a two state solution has become almost impossible because of all the Israeli settlements in the west bank, and one nation equal votes will never be accepted by Israel, as the foundation of Israel is indeed political Zionism, and that requires a majority Jewish nation state. I have no simple solution to propose.

It's wrong in general but correct about factions of Palestinian Arabs. It's true that like almost all of the Arab world, it's very oppressive for gay people, they are murdered often by their own families. Israel of course is the only place in the Middle East where gay people aren't persecuted.

Well, there are different factions of Palestinian Arabs and they are not a monolith. You've got Palestinian Arabs who are Christian, Muslim, or nothing. They live in Gaza, the West bank, Lebanon, Syria. and the global diaspora.

I call B.S. Zionism originated as a political liberation movement for the Jewish PEOPLE, religious and not religious. Persecution for thousands of years in the diaspora went after all Jewish PEOPLE, religious and not religious. Israel demonizers often falsely claim Jewish is just another religion. Nope. Jewish is an ETHNOreligious group. A very big difference. Nazism of course was obsessed with seeing Jews as a RACE. It's common to this day to conflate race and ethnicity from all groups, fascists or not.

The answer starts with J and anyone denying that is full of it.

Fancy some Balzac? You won't regret it. The title is apt.

Quacks like duck.

It's like that idiot governor from Florida who called it a terroritorial dispute.

A lot. But what choice do they have against an effort by a genocidal imperialist to erase their country, language, culture, and people?

Exactly You can find the exact same talking points all over the Nazi areas of the internet. They don't quit