Putin says tougher North Korea sanctions senseless, warns of global catastrophe

[Morch]

Just now, baboon said:

So where's the argument?

 

Room 12A, next door.

 

 

 

 

[jollyhangmon]

On 5.9.2017 at 2:34 PM, webfact said:

"This is being done by people who mix up Australia with Austria," he added.

 

 ... Touché!

 

Now, anymore proof needed Iwan's tapping into Donalds smartphone 24/7, 'open mic night' and all ...?! 

[David Walden]

I believe at present there are in North Korea two million Infantry t least, and a whole lot of military hardware and 4000 long  range artillery canons situated within range of Seoul and South Korea.  These canons appear to all be in emplacements which with conventional weapons would be difficult to hit. You may knockout 10% on a pre-emptive strike, you may get them all in a few days after the 10 to 15 million South Koreans are dead.  It is believed that North Korea could off load half a million high explosive shells on South Korea in about one hour, before anything could defended.  There  are also untold numbers of missiles  pointed at numerous targets perhaps even in Japan and maybe in the US????  We have a whole gaggle of politicians running the show against Korea none of them have had any military experience what so ever...none

 

Whatever happens over this issue there will be no winners.  Its time to step back stop the sabre rattling and compromise and get real.  

 

 

 

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I believe at present there are in North Korea two million Infantry t least, and a whole lot of military hardware and 4000 long  range artillery canons situated within range of Seoul and South Korea.  These canons appear to all be in emplacements which with conventional weapons would be difficult to hit. You may knockout 10% on a pre-emptive strike, you may get them all in a few days after the 10 to 15 million South Koreans are dead.  It is believed that North Korea could off load half a million high explosive shells on South Korea in about one hour, before anything could defended.  There  are also untold numbers of missiles  pointed at numerous targets perhaps even in Japan and maybe in the US????  We have a whole gaggle of politicians running the show against Korea none of them have had any military experience what so ever...none

 

Whatever happens over this issue there will be no winners.  Its time to step back stop the sabre rattling and compromise and get real.  

 

 

 

 

 

And there are also a whole lot of North Koreans who will lose their lives, and yet, somehow - most of the posts calling for compromise, realism, talks, negotiations and such are targeted at the US. Fancy that. Even more weird considering most North Koreans would die for not better reason than keeping Kim in place.

[amvet]

23 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I believe at present there are in North Korea two million Infantry t least, and a whole lot of military hardware and 4000 long  range artillery canons situated within range of Seoul and South Korea.  These canons appear to all be in emplacements which with conventional weapons would be difficult to hit. You may knockout 10% on a pre-emptive strike, you may get them all in a few days after the 10 to 15 million South Koreans are dead.  It is believed that North Korea could off load half a million high explosive shells on South Korea in about one hour, before anything could defended.  There  are also untold numbers of missiles  pointed at numerous targets perhaps even in Japan and maybe in the US????  We have a whole gaggle of politicians running the show against Korea none of them have had any military experience what so ever...none

 

Whatever happens over this issue there will be no winners.  Its time to step back stop the sabre rattling and compromise and get real. 

Time for some intelligent research.  "While the sheer number of artillery tubes could theoretically kill a large number of civilians, operational issues complicate matters and push the number of civilian casualties greatly downward. Despite the thousands of artillery pieces, only 700 heavier guns and rocket launchers, plus the newer 300-millimeter MRLs, have the range to strike Seoul. Only a third would normally be fired at once, and notional rates of fire would be slowed tremendously by the need to withdraw guns into their hardened artillery sites (HARTS) to shelter them from counter battery fire.

 

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345?page=2

 

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, amvet said:

Time for some intelligent research.  "While the sheer number of artillery tubes could theoretically kill a large number of civilians, operational issues complicate matters and push the number of civilian casualties greatly downward. Despite the thousands of artillery pieces, only 700 heavier guns and rocket launchers, plus the newer 300-millimeter MRLs, have the range to strike Seoul. Only a third would normally be fired at once, and notional rates of fire would be slowed tremendously by the need to withdraw guns into their hardened artillery sites (HARTS) to shelter them from counter battery fire.

 

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/could-north-korea-annihilate-seoul-its-artillery-20345?page=2

 

So are you saying 15 millions deaths is a bit of a high estimate and maybe if only half of that number were killed that would be OK, like 7.5 million (human beings)?  From a personal point I 'd most likely loose at least half of my pension fund and maybe more or maybe all of it.  That would likely be the same for the 500 millions or more western worlds investors and pension fund owners. The share markets would go crazy...down.   Get real.

 

PS... your information seems to be about 6 years out of date....

[ilostmypassword]

4 minutes ago, David Walden said:

So are you saying 15 millions deaths is a bit of a high estimate and maybe if only half of that number were killed that would be OK, like 7.5 million (human beings)?  From a personal point I 'd most likely loose at least half of my pension fund and maybe more or maybe all of it.  That would likely be the same for the 500 millions or more western worlds investors and pension fund owners. The share markets would go crazy...down.   Get real.

And how did you come up with that 7.5 million number? 

[David Walden]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And how did you come up with that 7.5 million number? 

Well I think that when the leader of USA tells us there will be fire and brimstone like the world has never seen and the "experts" tell us these  North Korea canons can be fired until the barrels melt down, you better believe it.  In the 1st 5 minuets of opening fire every bridge, road, railway, civil airport or billy cart track would be out of action.  The population of Seoul and nearby cities would have no where to go, no transport at all.   Try not to believe that North Korea will trip over themselves, they had a long long time to prepare.and appear to have prepared themselves to go defensive once the initial attack is concluded. They will be like rabbits, you can have a 5 acre paddock with a thousand rabbits in it but you walk across it and you will see not one of them.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, David Walden said:

Well I think that when the leader of USA tells us there will be fire and brimstone like the world has never seen and the "experts" tell us these  North Korea canons can be fired until the barrels melt down, you better believe it.  In the 1st 5 minuets of opening fire every bridge, road, railway, civil airport or billy cart track would be out of action.  The population of Seoul and nearby cities would have no where to go, no transport at all.   Try not to believe that North Korea will trip over themselves, they had a long long time to prepare.and appear to have prepared themselves to go defensive once the initial attack is concluded. They will be like rabbits, you can have a 5 acre paddock with a thousand rabbits in it but you walk across it and you will see not one of them.

I can  see that you didn't bother to read the article that was linked to.

[David Walden]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I can  see that you didn't bother to read the article that was linked to.

I did but it tells me as soon as I open it that it is 6 years old.   (NBG).  That's out of date.

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, David Walden said:

I did but it tells me as soon as I open it that it is 6 years old.   (NBG)

No, the article was published in Mar 2017. It is based on a study that was 6 years old. So do you have some data about the condtion of the NK forces that contradict what was written here? The author of the article has a history of writing for journals that are not ragingly political.

[David Walden]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

No, the article was published in Mar 2017. It is based on a study that was 6 years old. So do you have some data about the condtion of the NK forces that contradict what was written here? The author of the article has a history of writing for journals that are not ragingly political.

I think it just best leaving the figure to the experts, like all those politicians that have never been in a war (the new breed).  Now days our war mongering politicians know all about gambling casinos, Wall Street, overpriced hospital services, legal issues, you name it but wars ????...yes they are now "The Experts on Wars" 

[David Walden]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

No, the article was published in Mar 2017. It is based on a study that was 6 years old. So do you have some data about the condtion of the NK forces that contradict what was written here? The author of the article has a history of writing for journals that are not ragingly political.

Did you know know that Jesus Christ was born back in the year 0000.  They wrote the story during the 1600.  King James version...do you think they got it right??  I'm not sure that if I was the General in charge and you came in with information 6 years old I'd take any notice.   Do you feel like a tantrum?...go on.

[ilostmypassword]

17 minutes ago, David Walden said:

Did you know know that Jesus Christ was born back in the year 0000.  They wrote the story during the 1600.  King James version...do you think they got it right??  I'm not sure that if I was the General in charge and you came in with information 6 years old I'd take any notice.   Do you feel like a tantrum?...go on.

I'm not sure what a tale that might be a myth has to do with the current situation. And you seem terribly confused about the history of the New Testament.

 As for the information about North Korea being 6 years old...it was reported a journalist who covers this part of the world and doesn't seem to have an interest in fanning flames. Presumably he applied his judgement and knowledge of the present to this question. Whereas, you still haven't offered any kind of justification for your figure of 7.5 million deaths.

[aright]

7 hours ago, David Walden said:

 

 

Whatever happens over this issue there will be no winners.  Its time to step back stop the sabre rattling and compromise and get real.  

 

 

 

 

After 14 years of talks neither side has found an area they are prepared to compromise on.

What compromise do you think the West should offer and what quid pro quo do you feel N Korea will make in return.

[Guest]

On 06/09/2017 at 8:36 AM, retarius said:

Putin the only world leader talking any sense. Yesterday at the UN, the Russians forced Nikki Haley to admit that there were no prospects of additional sanctions working...."the would rather eat grass than give up their nuclear arms."

Putin has the intelligence level of Trump. He is intelligent enough to do tactical moves, but Putin lacks the needed extra 20-40 IQ points to do strategical decisions. 
 

That's why his country has been going down for years. 

 

Let's not forget, it was Putin, who brought using tactical nuclear weapons to the discussion. It was moronic at the time, it is moronic at this time. 

 

In general, Putin thought he could play the world and right now he is scared what he managed to do. That's not smart way to play the game. 
 

[David Walden]

9 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I'm not sure what a tale that might be a myth has to do with the current situation. And you seem terribly confused about the history of the New Testament.

 As for the information about North Korea being 6 years old...it was reported a journalist who covers this part of the world and doesn't seem to have an interest in fanning flames. Presumably he applied his judgement and knowledge of the present to this question. Whereas, you still haven't offered any kind of justification for your figure of 7.5 million deaths.

The figure of 7.5 million is a reasonable figure I plucked out of the air.  Originally, I referred to the 4000 cannons etc,etc that would open fire and the likely US Allied response that would likely kill 15 million or more.  But since you have informed me that you are in possession of reports 6 years old that North Korea only had 700 cannons pointed at Seoul which can fire up 60 rounds per minute well that's different.(of course that's better)   Now I conclude that with your information supplied (from 6 years ago and must be correct today?) I have now reviewed my estimate to only 7.5 million or more in that 1st few hours.  That is before an Allied response can be organised...

 

My point is  "where there is a will there is a way"  If you allow North Korea be a part of the international trading arrangements the problem will likely go away...but it's almost too late?  So all could fixed without a shot being fired,  "make cars not bombs".   Nothing like a good old war to increase a countries leader popularity...  Look a history you'll find the answer there.  

                             AND I THOUGHT ONLY POLITICIANS WERE SLOW LEARNERS

 

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The figure of 7.5 million is a reasonable figure I plucked out of the air.  Originally, I referred to the 4000 cannons etc,etc that would open fire and the likely US Allied response that would likely kill 15 million or more.  But since you have informed me that you are in possession of reports 6 years old that North Korea only had 700 cannons pointed at Seoul which can fire up 60 rounds per minute well that's different.(of course that's better)   Now I conclude that with your information supplied (from 6 years ago and must be correct today?) I have now reviewed my estimate to only 7.5 million or more in that 1st few hours.  That is before an Allied response can be organised...

 

My point is  "where there is a will there is a way"  If you allow North Korea be a part of the international trading arrangements the problem will likely go away...but it's almost too late?  So all could fixed without a shot being fired,  "make cars not bombs".   Nothing like a good old war to increase a countries leader popularity...  Look a history you'll find the answer there.  

                             AND I THOUGHT ONLY POLITICIANS WERE SLOW LEARNERS

 

"The figure of 7.5 million is a reasonable figure I plucked out of the air"

I'd be careful if I were you. It sounds like you're hacking into Donald Trump's database.

[David Walden]

7 hours ago, aright said:

After 14 years of talks neither side has found an area they are prepared to compromise on.

What compromise do you think the West should offer and what quid pro quo do you feel N Korea will make in return.

All Wars since time begun are caused by restrictive trade practices between nations.  Look at history (10 million pages) there you will find the answer.

[David Walden]

7 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"The figure of 7.5 million is a reasonable figure I plucked out of the air"

I'd be careful if I were you. It sounds like you're hacking into Donald Trump's database.

Thank you.  I appreciate your honesty?

[ExpatOilWorker]

14 minutes ago, David Walden said:

The figure of 7.5 million is a reasonable figure I plucked out of the air.  Originally, I referred to the 4000 cannons etc,etc that would open fire and the likely US Allied response that would likely kill 15 million or more.  But since you have informed me that you are in possession of reports 6 years old that North Korea only had 700 cannons pointed at Seoul which can fire up 60 rounds per minute well that's different.(of course that's better)   Now I conclude that with your information supplied (from 6 years ago and must be correct today?) I have now reviewed my estimate to only 7.5 million or more in that 1st few hours.  That is before an Allied response can be organised...

 

My point is  "where there is a will there is a way"  If you allow North Korea be a part of the international trading arrangements the problem will likely go away...but it's almost too late?  So all could fixed without a shot being fired,  "make cars not bombs".   Nothing like a good old war to increase a countries leader popularity...  Look a history you'll find the answer there.  

                             AND I THOUGHT ONLY POLITICIANS WERE SLOW LEARNERS

 

 

7.5 million in the first few hours. That estimate is probably off by a factor of 1,000. You need to study military history a bit more.

[David Walden]

11 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

7.5 million in the first few hours. That estimate is probably off by a factor of 1,000. You need to study military history a bit more.

Sorry I was wrong but don't you think that X 1000  7.5 million is a bit high.  That really means the whole worlds population.  I really think 3.5 billion people is a more accurate figure...please do your sums proppa next time.

 

PS I'm going for my morning walk...from the land of Aus.

[Dumbastheycome]

On 9/5/2017 at 7:17 PM, baboon said:

Putin is on Putin's side.

At  least  he   has  a survival  instinct  !

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

At  least  he   has  a survival  instinct  !

I see the least of cool with that. A person, who has almost absolute power, only think about himself. 

There is something, really wrong with him. 

[Dumbastheycome]

30 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I see the least of cool with that. A person, who has almost absolute power, only think about himself. 

There is something, really wrong with him. 

Why?  Because  he   makes  rational  statements?

[craigt3365]

54 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

At  least  he   has  a survival  instinct  !

So you are saying it's ok to kill and abuse others just to survive?  Sick.

[craigt3365]

45 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I see the least of cool with that. A person, who has almost absolute power, only think about himself. 

There is something, really wrong with him. 

And some like that. Bizarre people or just trolling.

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

So you are saying it's ok to kill and abuse others just to survive?  Sick.

No, he's not saying it's okay. Just that Kim is not suicidal. You consistently construe his brutality to mean that he is aiming for self-destruction.

[Dumbastheycome]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

So you are saying it's ok to kill and abuse others just to survive?  Sick.

Where  did  I say  that?   In light  of  that   are  "pre emptive "  actions"   based  on  speculation    different??????

[Dumbastheycome]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

So you are saying it's ok to kill and abuse others just to survive?  Sick.

Or  that  " collateral  damage"   based  on   speculative   action  is   justifiable?   I   am  not   sick.  I am   pro  rationality.  Not totalitarian domination.