Bringing up children in Thailand or UK? Safety?

[Jimmyjames120]

I first arrived in Thailand 10 years ago, got married, bought a house etc and as a couple everything was fun and carefree, now I have a 5 year old son and 20 month old daughter and I worry about there future with respect to safety. People on TV always talk about Education which is valid but I'm interested in opinions on safety in this thread.

 

ie: Life is cheap here, egos are so fragile you can be killed for simply beeping the horn, small arguments or many other insignificant things

 

The police are, let's face it, pretty useless, won't lift a finger unless paid and even then terrible, couple that with the corruption and it's a disaster.

 

All I see these days is danger, whether it's live wires hanging broken, holes in pavements and no drain covers, incredibly dangerous driving, giant pans of boiling liquids at food stalls etc etc it seems life can be cut short for a very stupid reason.

 

I could go on but let's try to keep it short. This is not an exercise in Thai bashing, just my truthful observations. I'm from the UK so these problems you would not need to worry about, yes there is crime but no way can you compare it to here.

 

I'm obviously interested in replies from those of you with children as you will understand more I think, or am I just worrying too much....?. where do you see your children in the future? slotted in nicely amongst the caos? or not......  Replies from all are of course welcome and I don't mind a few smartass comments, we all need a laugh, but let's try to have a few Educated replies, I know you are out there.

 

Cheers.

 

 

 

 

[cooked]

10 years? From what I hear, the UK has really gone downhill, especially in the area of law and order and education.

Plenty of nice villages left though.

 

[Jimmyjames120]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

10 years? From what I hear, the UK has really gone downhill, especially in the area of law and order and education.

Plenty of nice villages left though.

 

Yes 10 years is a long time, guess I should spend a bit of time there to see what's changed, I have heard a lot of talk about privatising the NHS, that would be a sad day, no more free healthcare.

 

Village life is certainty appealing though.

[brewsterbudgen]

I worry about this a lot (2 year-old son), especially the horrendous air pollution in Bangkok and the traffic accidents.  However, as my job is here, I'm left with little choice.  At least we've found a good pre-school for him.  Once I retire, the UK may be an option but I no longer have property there and getting a Settlement visa for my Lao wife will not be easy.

[Jimmyjames120]

6 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I worry about this a lot (2 year-old son), especially the horrendous air pollution in Bangkok and the traffic accidents.  However, as my job is here, I'm left with little choice.  At least we've found a good pre-school for him.  Once I retire, the UK may be an option but I no longer have property there and getting a Settlement visa for my Lao wife will not be easy.

If you need to stay in Thailand on retirement  then better to relocate, maybe chiang  mai, get a place on the outskirts of the city, good schools, cleaner air, except for a couple months burning season, and avoid the town like the plague! Traffic like Bangkok soon

[dcoy]

The way I see it, Thailand is still OK to bring up kids if you have lots of money and/or connections to people with power, in other words if you are in the top 0.1%. This is the case in many countries in the region. Now that I have a daughter, I am planning on moving my family to Australia in the next year or two.

[brewsterbudgen]

If you need to stay in Thailand on retirement  then better to relocate, maybe chiang  mai, get a place on the outskirts of the city, good schools, cleaner air, except for a couple months burning season, and avoid the town like the plague! Traffic like Bangkok soon

Unfortunately retirement is still a good 10 years away. I don't teach in a school, so for work, Bangkok is really the only option if I want to continue making 90,000+ a month, and I need at least this to support my family.

[irishken]

If you have a choice of both locations i'd choose the UK over thailand for all of the reasons you listed and more.

I've two kids, 3.5 and 5 years old and one has just started preschool and the other junior infants and when they get dropped off i have very little worry about them.

I cannot imagine feeling the same if they lived in Thailand with all the news recently about how teachers have been treating kids.

Ill add that i don't have the choice yet to live in Thailand but i'm fine with that.I love visiting Thailand but 3 weeks once or twice a year and i'm happy to come home where i know my family will be looked after if anything happens as equals to everyone else.

I plan on retiring in Thailand all things been the same when i hit that age but myself and my Wife agree that our kids will never live at a young age in Thailand.

 

 

[Bob12345]

Interesting topic.

 

I have 2 kids (still very young) but we will move to a gated moobaan soon with barely any traffic, no soi dogs, camera surveillance, and you need to hand over your ID card to get entry. All this so they can go out of the house without us having to worry about everything you mention.

 

For school, which is still 4 years away, we plan on driving them there and picking them up. 

 

In other words; the guarded moobaan will be their world.

[anon345535]

29 minutes ago, Bob12345 said:

guarded moobaan.

Lived in one myself for the last 10 years, since my daughter was 5 months old. Personally I feel that where I live now is considerably safer than the UK.

[cabanlit]

The personal safety you mention was one of many future concerns I had. So, back in 2012, I moved back to UK. Best thing I've done.

 

It's not just the personal safety you mention, it's also growing up with an awareness of household safety, road safety, even online safety. Schools now are very 'hot' on online awareness, and a new version of the old 'cycling proficiency test' covers road safety at an early age.

 

I'm not in an inner city which, I know, could be different. But, out in the 'burbs, there's little or no crime to be overly concerned about. The only knives you see are in the kitchen; and the only guns are at the fairground. There aren't 'battles' between schools and colleges either.

 

My child walks to and from school by herself, and has done since aged 10.

 

You say that the issue of education is 'another topic', so I won't go on about that. However, it's a no-brainer to move back to UK for that issue alone. International standard education in Thailand might be good within the 4 walls of the classroom, but then what? Nothing to do in Thailand that would give them the career and opportunities that you'd get in Europe.

[bigyin]

Yes I agree with all of the above. I moved back to the UK 2 years ago after 6 years in Thailand with Thai wife and step daughter and I have never regretted the decision.  The UK is still a very safe place to live (with obvious exceptions) and my step daughter is much happier here.  The language is an issue in education terms but that is a different story.  UK over Thailand every day with children for me.  Dual nationality in the future after ILR is also an attractive option. 

[Megasin1]

This is a 'no brainer'...sure you can wrap your blessings in cotton wool if they would ever allow it. How can you ignore education when it's one of the main foundations for the rest? They don't even teach Thai kids which snakes are poisonous !!!! Go figure. Your percentages are far greater in the West...always play the percentages when gambling ?

[irishken]

Its amazing to think that Thais never even learn about WW2.

I watch some war documentaries with the Wife when we can and she is very interested in them. Full of questions and one of the few times her phone gets put aside. 

 

Even at the weekend we were having a few glasses of wine while watching the Hurricane on the news and she checked her Thai news.

She told me that all the main news never even mentioned the hurricane for more than a few seconds and had more news about Chompoo Araya having twins. 

My 4 year old even knows who Donald trump is. When i go back to Thailand in February, i'm sure the in laws will still not know who he is. 

[todlad]

Interesting topic with interesting replied. I came to live in Thailand and have always told my significant other that I will never go back to the UK to live. My mind is made up so my perspective is different from some others who have replied.

 

My toddler daughter has mousy hair, fairly pale skin and looks more farang than Thai in every other way too. This makes her stand out for good and iffy. Good in that Thai people are drawn to her and make a fuss of her: a pain sometimes but generally friendly and positive.

 

Some older children assume my daughter is pure farang and sometimes their reaction verges on the hostile: enough to put me on my guard. She goes to nursery and has no problems there.

 

There are many Thai x Farang children where we live so I flag this as something to keep an eye on.

 

Education. Yes the UK has a mature education system but the last 10+ years has seen the PC brigade moving into schools and universities and that has been ruinous. Standards have fallen at all levels.

 

We are living here in a developing country so we cannot expect schools here to rank alongside the UK. I will manage my daughter's education as best I can. I cannot tolerate a village school for her and I will question teachers/schools over things I dislike or don't agree with.

 

What are my expectations for education here? Multi lingual. Good general knowledge from me and I will work to supplement whatever else she learns by giving extra inputs as I see fit.

 

We travel around quite a bit so my daughter knows different forms of transport, different foods, big city v small city ...

 

Overall, then, I vote to stay and work with what we've got.

[RichardColeman]

I have a 15 month old daughter. I do not intend to let her stay here. When I originally started coming here 15 years ago, it was OK for a holiday. But after living here for two + years, I see Thailand as a terrible place to bring up children. You only have to read the stories on this website to see how bad it is getting. A lot of the people seem ignorant, rude, obnoxious, idiotic, childish, uneducated, and will run at you with a knife just for looking at them strange or tooting your horn. And the same goes for the government here. I include some of my in-laws in that catagory - moronic.

 

My wife IS a kindergarten school teacher, and prepares a lot of kids for the next level, but the next level is copy, paste, repeat. She's very frustrated.  

 

I think you will be doing your kids a disservice getting them educated here.

 

BUT, and this is the big BUT so to speak. You do not say your financial situation. I personally am 53, own a house in the south east which i use for rent for living here. I have a small pension that kicks in at 55. Combining my pension with selling my naff old house in the south and moving up north near my daughter from years previously will give me enough for the visa by way of savings and income combined. 

 

So, I am OK. I'm only here now as I am waiting for 55, and for certain legal documents. YOU, do not say your financial situation. If you have no income and nowhere to live - you're screwed.

 

As said, try not to get a city house. Cities are the pits in the UK now.

 

I would advise getting them out of this place before the mad people at the Embassy change the visa laws to something unrealistic. 

 

I wish you all the best, post what happens.

[tryasimight]

55 minutes ago, Megasin1 said:

This is a 'no brainer'...sure you can wrap your blessings in cotton wool if they would ever allow it. How can you ignore education when it's one of the main foundations for the rest? They don't even teach Thai kids which snakes are poisonous !!!! Go figure. Your percentages are far greater in the West...always play the percentages when gambling ?

Which snakes are poisonous?

[richard_smith237]

Firstly Education - the subject can't be avoided....  IF kids are in a decent International School OK - If not, get them educated back home. 

 

On the subject of Safety: It's a major concern of mine. 

We pretty much drive everywhere in Bangkok, or Drive to the Mall, park at the Mall and use the BTS.

Walking anywhere is just too dangerous, motorcycles on pavements, food-carts with boiling oil etc... we only walk within a very close proximity. That said, my Wife or I walk my son to school which is <500m.

Safety around the home is another concern: We live in a large condo with a large kids play area on the ground level, lots of kids, fun etc.. but our son (and all the other kids) are supervised (of course he is at 3 yrs old). There are also lots of 'soft-play' ares in Bangkok such as kidzoona etc... we go there a lot, and of course swimming... But always our son is supervised...

... issues such as electricity, grounding etc... hot food being carried over our childs heads in restaurants (pet hate) etc... but, we are more vigilant here than I perhaps would be in the UK - because of this, perhaps my son is at less risk....??...

 

The real aspect of safety will strike home as our son approaches teens and he will want to go to areas without supervision etc... the issue is the same in any city. The concerns are not yet sufficient to move home and I compare Education / safety etc in balance with what my nephews of the same age are exposed to....  

[joecoolfrog]

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 2:22 AM, cooked said:

10 years? From what I hear, the UK has really gone downhill, especially in the area of law and order and education.

Plenty of nice villages left though.

 

" The UK has really gone downhill "

To be frank that is nonsense , its the sort of thing usually muttered by down at heel expats desperately seeking justification for their life choices.

[RichardColeman]

2 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Which snakes are poisonous?

My wife owns a rubber plantation - I can assure you there are many poisonous snakes in Thailand. 

 

Every kid when I was at school was taught about Adders in the UK. 

[tryasimight]

Just now, RichardColeman said:

My wife owns a rubber plantation - I can assure you there are many poisonous snakes in Thailand. 

 

Every kid when I was at school was taught about Adders in the UK. 

And I can assure there are not.

 

Seems the UK education system has some shortcoming too.

[RichardColeman]

3 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

And I can assure there are not.

Hmm, go figure..........

 

https://www.thailandsnakes.com/thailand-venomous-snake-photos/

[tryasimight]

2 minutes ago, RichardColeman said:

Hmm, go figure..........

 

https://www.thailandsnakes.com/thailand-venomous-snake-photos/

Now you're getting it....venomous snakes.....not poisonous snakes (please,please,please don't tell me they're the same thing).

See you've learnt something today!

You can buy me a beer later.

 

Maybe that's why they don't teach Thai kids about poisonous snakes....there aren't any.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by tryasimight

[irishken]

13 minutes ago, joecoolfrog said:

" The UK has really gone downhill "

To be frank that is nonsense , its the sort of thing usually muttered by down at heel expats desperately seeking justification for their life choices.

That was the sort of argument that won the Brexit vote.

Scaremongering.

[RichardColeman]

13 minutes ago, irishken said:

That was the sort of argument that won the Brexit vote.

Scaremongering.

Try telling that to someone who now lives in their home UK environment full of alien people that don't speak English. To them life has gone severely downhill

Edited September 13, 2017 by RichardColeman

[eddie68]

It's a no-brainer.  If you can move back to the UK then do it.

 

I lived in Thailand for over eight years.  Before the children were born I could travel with my girlfriend and enjoy what the country has to offer but after they were born and particularly when they started  school my freedom was curtailed as 'real' life set in.  And real life in Thailand sucks.  I speak a bit of Thai and over time my illusions about Thailand have ebbed away as I have learned more about the country and the people, and in recent years my opinion of both has been in free-fall.

 

I have now relocated to the east-midlands with my five and six year old children.  They are attending a local state school, are both enjoying it enormously and have really come on in the few months that we have been here.  Right now we are waiting for their mother to get her visa but we will be staying here regardless.  My only regret was not relocating here a couple of years ago when house prices were a bit cheaper and we would have had more control over the school they attend.

 

On your original topic of safety I can breath easily here.  I have to keep a close eye on the money and my partner's visa has yet to be sorted out but otherwise my only safety concern is crossing the main road on the way to school.  I was in a constant state of unease in Thailand, permanently worried about my safety and the safety of my children.  And make no mistake Thailand is NOT SAFE.  The roads are probably the most dangerous in the world, safety standards if you can call them that are a joke and reflect the complete lack of safety awareness, and behind it all there is no rule of law.  Thailand in so many ways has cultural opposites to the UK (and the west in general).  Where we have a culture of safety (we teach our children 'common sense' from the day they can crawl), the Thais are so laisez faire it's beyond a joke.  Add on top of that the risk of disease (rabies, malaria - yes malaria IS a problem in Thailand, dengue fever, foot and mouth, bird flu and god knows what else), the risk of things like snake bite and you wonder why anyone who was aware of the risks and had the choice would raise their children there.

[wolf81]

I became father last year and have a Thai girlfriend. I haven't spent that much time in Thailand yet, so I cannot speak from too much experience. My total time in Thailand is probably around 1 year.

 

But I am a software developer and can probably work remotely while getting paid well. So my goal will be to live in Thailand next year with my girlfriend and baby. I don't plan on getting married, will probably get Thai Elite visa.

 

With that said, I do plan to stay in Thailand in the future and not return to Europe, safe for some holidays or for funerals of close family members.

 

In my opinions: yes, Thailand currently is much less safer than Europe. And education probably sucks. I do hope we can help educate our daughter at home. Stimulate her. 

 

With regards to safety: we will at least for the first few years live in a small village about a 2 hours drive from Chiang Mai. My girlfriend told me before that pretty much nothing ever happens in her village. I've visited the village a few times, perhaps spent a total of 3 months there, and it seems safe. Of course, in this village you won't find much people that can speak English and it will be hard to find "farang" food, but I am sure I will be fine.  

 

I do believe Asia stands to become much more wealthier in the future and that will probably cause people to care more for safety, better services, etc... 

 

I also believe that Europe will face a civil war if unbridled immigration will continue like this. Because the costs on society will increase and there will be a smaller share of the working population that will have to carry this burden. Immigrants get free housing, free health care, etc... in my country of origin. For young people it's getting harder and harder to find a place to live if they are not immigrants. At the same time more and more unsafe areas for woman, gay people, etc.. develop in the bigger cities. There will surely also be more and more terror attacks.

 

At some point there will be a response and that could be the spark that ignites the barrel.

 

I also believe the policies of Draghi will become problematic for the Eurozone, but that is a different story.

 

As you are living in the UK, perhaps you will stand to face less of these troubles that I foresee, since the UK is not part of the EU. Time will tell.

 

P.S.: If I'd want to live somewhere very safe, I'd probably consider something like New Zealand.

Edited September 13, 2017 by wolf81

[irishken]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

Try telling that to someone who now lives in their home UK environment full of alien people that don't speak English. To them life has gone severely downhill

So they possibly feel the same as Thai people when lots of farang come to their country and cause problems? 

 

 

[citybiker]

That was the sort of argument that won the Brexit vote.
Scaremongering.

I'd say the UK is deeply divided since Brexit, however many have moved on since the positive vote.

As for UK or Thailand for kids, I've got friends in both & 'some' parents want to return to Thailand whilst the kids are fiercely settled into the UK.

People need to cease the short term vision of the current climate & focus on what is right for they're own circumstances, post Brexit the UK will continue but downhill it certainly isn't.


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[catman20]

im happy for all you guys that come here for retirement and to enjoy the rest of your lives only to end up having to go back to the UK cos you got trapped by some bird getting pregnant. well done lads crack on.