What to do when an Ex Pat dies in Thailand.

[Eff1n2ret]

On ‎17‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 5:52 PM, evadgib said:

Update of interest to Brits:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/information-relating-to-deaths-in-thailand

This document should be treated with caution. Over pages 6/7, under "Registration of the Death", it states as follows:-

 

"Deaths of British nationals overseas are not automatically recorded in the UK Register Office, nor is there any obligation for the death to be registered with the British Embassy in Bangkok.  However, NoK (next of kin)may find that there are advantages in doing so - a British form of death certificate is then available, and a record of it would then be held at the General Register Office in the UK."

 

Any reasonable person would infer from this that you can register the death with the British Embassy, who would issue a British death certificate. As the recent death of a friend spurred me to check on my arrangements for my own demise, I emailed Consular Enquiries in BKK a full week ago to ask if the above was true, whether the death certificate could be issued at the same time as the 'Letter of Release' referred to earlier in the document, and how much it would cost.

 

I have not had the courtesy of a specific reply. I did get an auto-generated response which contains some general indication including lists of "Services we provide" and "Services we do not provide". The latter list includes "Registration of deaths abroad" and if you follow the link provided it is quite clear that the only method of doing so is some convoluted and expensive process in which the Bangkok Consulate plays no part. Presumably the folks there deemed this an adequate response to my enquiry.

 

My conclusions from the above are two-fold:- 1) My advice to those who will have to sort out things when I snuff it is to get several notarised and translated copies of the Thai death certificate, as that should be adequate for probate in the UK and a lot quicker and cheaper than whatever service the British government provides, and 2) I noticed a few beefs recently, which I do not share, about the standard of English in the VFS office at Trendy. However, I find it inexcusable that such sloppy and misleading English should be acceptable in the FCO at King Charles Street, whence that document emanates.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, Eff1n2ret said:

This document should be treated with caution. Over pages 6/7, under "Registration of the Death", it states as follows:-

 

"Deaths of British nationals overseas are not automatically recorded in the UK Register Office, nor is there any obligation for the death to be registered with the British Embassy in Bangkok.  However, NoK (next of kin)may find that there are advantages in doing so - a British form of death certificate is then available, and a record of it would then be held at the General Register Office in the UK."

 

Any reasonable person would infer from this that you can register the death with the British Embassy, who would issue a British death certificate. As the recent death of a friend spurred me to check on my arrangements for my own demise, I emailed Consular Enquiries in BKK a full week ago to ask if the above was true, whether the death certificate could be issued at the same time as the 'Letter of Release' referred to earlier in the document, and how much it would cost.

 

I have not had the courtesy of a specific reply. I did get an auto-generated response which contains some general indication including lists of "Services we provide" and "Services we do not provide". The latter list includes "Registration of deaths abroad" and if you follow the link provided it is quite clear that the only method of doing so is some convoluted and expensive process in which the Bangkok Consulate plays no part. Presumably the folks there deemed this an adequate response to my enquiry.

 

My conclusions from the above are two-fold:- 1) My advice to those who will have to sort out things when I snuff it is to get several notarised and translated copies of the Thai death certificate, as that should be adequate for probate in the UK and a lot quicker and cheaper than whatever service the British government provides, and 2) I noticed a few beefs recently, which I do not share, about the standard of English in the VFS office at Trendy. However, I find it inexcusable that such sloppy and misleading English should be acceptable in the FCO at King Charles Street, whence that document emanates.

- Thailand Death Certs are in both languages & therefore likely to be accepted by UK outlets.

- FCO Issued a press release explaining everything some years ago.

- Having invented the English language and exported it around the world it's a common misconception that communications generated by British/Govt outlets should be 100% correct re spelling and grammar before being unleashed on the general public. In reality it is perfectly reasonable to find the odd mistake without getting too excited & equally easy to submit feedback offering corrections if necessary.

 

HTH

[evadgib]

FAO Brits re probate:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/personal-applicants-can-now-apply-for-probate-online

[poanoi]

On 3/27/2018 at 2:28 PM, Ban Phe Dezza said:

I seem to have left out the word Honour in my Message the important point is that they  will honour their existing contracts regards Dezza 

 

do you happen to know when they will open up to public again ?

or rather: will they inform you when they do ?

if so, kindly link them when they function,

thanks

[Ban Phe Dezza]

On 4/20/2018 at 9:56 PM, poanoi said:

do you happen to know when they will open up to public again ?

or rather: will they inform you when they do ?

if so, kindly link them when they function,

thanks

 

On 4/20/2018 at 9:56 PM, poanoi said:

do you happen to know when they will open up to public again ?

or rather: will they inform you when they do ?

if so, kindly link them when they function,

thanks

Greetings  Yes they have reorganise and are back in Business I am not sure if I can post the Details under forum rules 

They have created an Asia I D 

Extract from email they they sent me just recenty

Dear Sir /Madam,

 

I am pleased to inform you that our reliable assistance team is available whenever needed, 24 hours a day and 365 days a year. Wherever you are in the world, our team is here waiting to help you when you need us most.

 

You can contact us via email on [email protected] or by calling at :

 

 

I trust this helps Mods  I have no connection with the company accept as a client

[Sheryl]

This is Allison Monkhouse, yes? Do they have a new name?

Re death certificate, I have no experience for U.K. but for the US a foreign death certificate by irself is not accepted gor any legal purpise in the USA. You have to get the "certificate of death abroad" document from Embassy or consulate and this has the same standing as a US death certificate.

Now having a valid death cettificate for your home country matters only if you have assets there or someone is entitled to survivor benefits on your account.

Allison Monkhouse took care of all this as part of their setvice and seemed to know all the requirements of different countries. Hopefully their new operation does the same.

Regardless of how little interest the UK Embassy may take in it, Thai police policy is to not release a foreigner's body for burial or cremation until the relevant Embassy has been notified and tells them it is OK to do do. Most Embassies in turn have that OK only after they have located next of kin who either take responsibility for release of the body or authorizes its release to someone else. An Executor named in a will or a petson holding a power of attorney may sometimes be accepted in place of a blood relative. And of course if there is a spouse in Thailand all is settled quickly.

If the UK is as unintetested as posts suggest one can only hope that this means they automatically ok release of all bodies of UK citizens. I imagine so as I have not heard if UK bodies piling up in morgues unreleased! Though if they truly are doing this without first informing NOK one would think there would be a lot of hue and cry from families of tourists....

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[Ban Phe Dezza]

43 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

This is Allison Monkhouse, yes? Do they have a new name?

Re death certificate, I have no experience for U.K. but for the US a foreign death certificate by irself is not accepted gor any legal purpise in the USA. You have to get the "certificate of death abroad" document from Embassy or consulate and this has the same standing as a US death certificate.

Now having a valid death cettificate for your home country matters only if you have assets there or someone is entitled to survivor benefits on your account.

Allison Monkhouse took care of all this as part of their setvice and seemed to know all the requirements of different countries. Hopefully their new operation does the same.

Regardless of how little interest the UK Embassy may take in it, Thai police policy is to not release a foreigner's body for burial or cremation until the relevant Embassy has been notified and tells them it is OK to do do. Most Embassies in turn have that OK only after they have located next of kin who either take responsibility for release of the body or authorizes its release to someone else. An Executor named in a will or a petson holding a power of attorney may sometimes be accepted in place of a blood relative. And of course if there is a spouse in Thailand all is settled quickly.

If the UK is as unintetested as posts suggest one can only hope that this means they automatically ok release of all bodies of UK citizens. I imagine so as I have not heard if UK bodies piling up in morgues unreleased! Though if they truly are doing this without first informing NOK one would think there would be a lot of hue and cry from families of tourists....

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43 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

This is Allison Monkhouse, yes? Do they have a new name?

Re death certificate, I have no experience for U.K. but for the US a foreign death certificate by irself is not accepted gor any legal purpise in the USA. You have to get the "certificate of death abroad" document from Embassy or consulate and this has the same standing as a US death certificate.

Now having a valid death cettificate for your home country matters only if you have assets there or someone is entitled to survivor benefits on your account.

Allison Monkhouse took care of all this as part of their setvice and seemed to know all the requirements of different countries. Hopefully their new operation does the same.

Regardless of how little interest the UK Embassy may take in it, Thai police policy is to not release a foreigner's body for burial or cremation until the relevant Embassy has been notified and tells them it is OK to do do. Most Embassies in turn have that OK only after they have located next of kin who either take responsibility for release of the body or authorizes its release to someone else. An Executor named in a will or a petson holding a power of attorney may sometimes be accepted in place of a blood relative. And of course if there is a spouse in Thailand all is settled quickly.

If the UK is as unintetested as posts suggest one can only hope that this means they automatically ok release of all bodies of UK citizens. I imagine so as I have not heard if UK bodies piling up in morgues unreleased! Though if they truly are doing this without first informing NOK one would think there would be a lot of hue and cry from families of tourists....

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

[watcharacters]

On 9/13/2017 at 11:04 AM, jayceenik said:

I'm a retired Belgian senior. I live here in LOS permanently with my TGF and plan to die here. 

I thought I had done everything that had to be done with my inheritance to her (lawyer drafted wills) but the OP raised a very worrisome point ie how to get my body released to my TGF for disposal if no NOK of any significance in home country.

I'm going to get her to find out how to deal legally with this. 

I'll get back on this thread when I've got the info needed. 

 

Maybe it'll be on me to draft a Belgian Embassy certified letter of disposal of my body to my TGF at my death.

 

Thanks for the posting nong38  

 

Going to a third, disinterested party, to deal with legal matters may give you the best information you seek.

 

 

 

Edit:  I agree nong38 did a  nice general service to the TVF members regardless of the member's home country.

[Ban Phe Dezza]

Just now, Ban Phe Dezza said:

 

 

Hi Sheryl  I am sorry as I do not comprehend your  post in Full

Yes it was Allison House a few months ago a former employee left the company and started a new company.

Apparently that caused issues and for some time there was a void in operations hence a new registration

Please bear in mind I am only a prepaid Cremation client and not privy to what went on 

Prior to the breakup the former manager change careers and become the Canadian Consul in Bangkok

some months later her replacement founded her own company and contacted all former clients to get them to move to her new company

To cut a long story short I remained loyal to Allison Monkhouse as they are an Australian company

Recently I i was advised that the new company would honour all existing agreements 

I am beginning to doubt the wisdom of making post on Thai Visa

for the record when I took out my contract They advised me of to contact my Embassy  and arrange with them to contact my next of Kin

I can put you in touch with the new manager as she is keen to contact any clients who may have concerns

I have been deliberately vague as unsure what i can post 

[Sheryl]

Yes, please pm contact i fo of the new manager and I'll investigate and report back.

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[Ban Phe Dezza]

15 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes, please pm contact i fo of the new manager and I'll investigate and report back.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

PM sent

[Sheryl]

This is the new company. Headquartered in Oz. Seems to be a branch of Allison Monkhouse though I am not totally clear on that point.

 

The website talks only about repatriation but I am assurred that they will also assist in burial/cremation in Thailand

 

https://www.amarepatriations.com/

[BEVUP]

Informative

 

I'm looking at it this way - Was mentioned if had spouse it would be easier & having no assets overseas

 

As far as I'm concerned I would want my wife or son to just send me to the temple with the rubbish of a Post Mortem 

 

Then just go to police with Passport & say I died of natural causes

 

But If I died prior to extracting my Super from abroad it would be a different ball game

 

Can you wife be executor (do you really need one ), I don't have much to worry about 

 

 

[NancyL]

Yes, your wife can definitely be the executor of your Final Will.  This is probably better than naming a law firm that may or may not be around when the time comes.  Your wife, or whomever is executor, has the freedom to hire the lawyer of their choice to handle whatever legal work is needed.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is the new company. Headquartered in Oz. Seems to be a branch of Allison Monkhouse though I am not totally clear on that point.

 

The website talks only about repatriation but I am assurred that they will also assist in burial/cremation in Thailand

 

https://www.amarepatriations.com/

 

Well, they claim the Monkhouse affiliation in their logo, and their local Thai office is now shown in Bangkok:

 

 

 

Although the Australia head office phone numbers and emails of the two respective entities are different.

 

There's still a regular Allison Monkhouse entity in Australia, but seems to have no specific mention of serving Thailand or Thai language support on the page below.

 

http://monkhouse.com.au/find-us/

 

 

 

[Ban Phe Dezza]

18 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is the new company. Headquartered in Oz. Seems to be a branch of Allison Monkhouse though I am not totally clear on that point.

 

The website talks only about repatriation but I am assurred that they will also assist in burial/cremation in Thailand

 

https://www.amarepatriations.com/

Hi  Sheryl  yes they  still have a prepaid scheme.  costs vary in different Thai provinces.  One point to note in the case that say you were on a visa run or holiday outside Thailand the policy will not cover burials/ Cremations in other countries, I have written confirmation on this policy   

My policy is still valid since the company reformed earlier this year

[evadgib]

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/personal-applicants-can-now-apply-for-probate-online

[evadgib]

Of interest to any with family in UK:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cma-investigates-funerals-sector

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tougher-regulation-for-funeral-plan-providers

[Speedo1968]

Can anyone please clarify if a Thai Death Certificate is acceptable in the UK for a UK national ?

By this I mean in relation to bank accounts which I have there; I have no other property in UK.

Like others I only got a few leaflets and no direct advice.

 

I registered my details with the British Embassy in Bangkok and have a reference number should they need contacting.

 

I made out a signed Will and all information has been provided to my daughters in the UK, also with a friend here and a further spare copy at my house.     Daughters have acknowledged that my friend has the right to do what is possible and necessary here before one or both arrive in Thailand.    If either are unable to attend then my friend may go ahead with my funeral.   I also made my funeral requests known in writing.  

 

I live alone but have a close friend nearby.

I made a Living Will some years ago regarding "Do not resuscitate", which is already placed in my records at the two hospitals I attend ( when necessary ).  

Along with this are details of my medical history and all drug allergies as well as all contact details.  There is also a copy clearly posted on the wall of my house.   Whenever I go out, even for a short time, I have the same documents in my backpack or pocket; even when I go early morning and late evening jogging near my house.

 

NB - Regarding Living Will / DNR - Whenever I have had to visit the hospital for treatment ( e.g. bad TIA or stroke, even a serious bacterial infection which was spreading rapidly (( I am allergic to many antibiotics )), the hospital would still ask if these were still my wishes.   However, when admitted with a big stroke ( over two days on the floor and complications - rhabdomyolysis and acute kidney failure ) both hospitals I went to asked my friend if the DNR was still my wishes and accepted her "Yes" reply.    For antibiotic treatment I had to sign on the dotted line again at one hospital.  

 

I thank all who have posted there experiences, views and ideas regarding this important and often neglected subject.

I have learned a lot.

 

[Sheryl]

Can anyone please clarify if a Thai Death Certificate is acceptable in the UK for a UK national ?
By this I mean in relation to bank accounts which I have there; I have no other property in UK.
Like others I only got a few leaflets and no direct advice.
 
I registered my details with the British Embassy in Bangkok and have a reference number should they need contacting.
 
I made out a signed Will and all information has been provided to my daughters in the UK, also with a friend here and a further spare copy at my house.     Daughters have acknowledged that my friend has the right to do what is possible and necessary here before one or both arrive in Thailand.    If either are unable to attend then my friend may go ahead with my funeral.   I also made my funeral requests known in writing.  
 
I live alone but have a close friend nearby.
I made a Living Will some years ago regarding "Do not resuscitate", which is already placed in my records at the two hospitals I attend ( when necessary ).  
Along with this are details of my medical history and all drug allergies as well as all contact details.  There is also a copy clearly posted on the wall of my house.   Whenever I go out, even for a short time, I have the same documents in my backpack or pocket; even when I go early morning and late evening jogging near my house.
 
NB - Regarding Living Will / DNR - Whenever I have had to visit the hospital for treatment ( e.g. bad TIA or stroke, even a serious bacterial infection which was spreading rapidly (( I am allergic to many antibiotics )), the hospital would still ask if these were still my wishes.   However, when admitted with a big stroke ( over two days on the floor and complications - rhabdomyolysis and acute kidney failure ) both hospitals I went to asked my friend if the DNR was still my wishes and accepted her "Yes" reply.    For antibiotic treatment I had to sign on the dotted line again at one hospital.  
 
I thank all who have posted there experiences, views and ideas regarding this important and often neglected subject.
I have learned a lot.
 

See post #93

It appears that to get a death certificate valid in UK you need to get a document issued by the Embassy. Issuing same is one of the services they provide.

Doing this is not mandatory so if you have no assets in the UK and no UK issued benefits that your survivors qualufy fir, no need to do it. But if there are UK assets to my understanding the Embassy issued dicument is a legal necessity. Certainly this is the case in US.

These documents are not hard to obtain, they are issued based on Thai death certificate.

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[baansgr]

A good friend  of mine with over 30 years service is still on ice after 2 years of passing  away. Although  whiprounds etc,  The British Embassy or Legion won't help with repatriation and not enough  raised for him.  The morgue  bill increases  monthly. Definitely get your affairs in order

[NancyL]

4 hours ago, baansgr said:

A good friend  of mine with over 30 years service is still on ice after 2 years of passing  away. Although  whiprounds etc,  The British Embassy or Legion won't help with repatriation and not enough  raised for him.  The morgue  bill increases  monthly. Definitely get your affairs in order

The standard practice here is cremation with the remains being sent back to the home country if someone wants to be buried in their home country.  It's an unrealistic expense to expect a body to be sent back and, besides, the body won't be in any shape for an open casket ceremony.  

[baansgr]

16 hours ago, NancyL said:

The standard practice here is cremation with the remains being sent back to the home country if someone wants to be buried in their home country.  It's an unrealistic expense to expect a body to be sent back and, besides, the body won't be in any shape for an open casket ceremony.  

Exactly, that's why people should try to have their affairs  in order

[BaanOz]

On 6/6/2018 at 2:01 AM, baansgr said:

Exactly, that's why people should try to have their affairs  in order

Our cash is and will stay put in Australia and we living in Thailand. My Aussie/Thai wife and I are thinking to use NSW Trustee & Guardian and as executor. Everything going to her family if we "go" together and if I go first want to make it easier for Mrs Baanoz.

Wife has no family in Australia and I am the youngest of my siblings. We have no other family I would trust to be executor. Whoever is the executor would have to sort out and transfer to the wifes family.

Anyone with ideas about this and wondering what others have done, is there any other options other than using the Australian Public Trustee? I'm thinking using a solicitor/lawyer as an executor could be riskier.
 

[Jip99]

On 6/5/2018 at 11:31 AM, Sheryl said:

See post #93

It appears that to get a death certificate valid in UK you need to get a document issued by the Embassy. Issuing same is one of the services they provide.

Doing this is not mandatory so if you have no assets in the UK and no UK issued benefits that your survivors qualufy fir, no need to do it. But if there are UK assets to my understanding the Embassy issued dicument is a legal necessity. Certainly this is the case in US.

These documents are not hard to obtain, they are issued based on Thai death certificate.

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Sheryl, I think that is incorrect. There is no necessity to register the death with the embassy.

 

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-death/y/overseas

 

 

You must register the death according to the regulations in the country where the person died. You will be given a local death certificate.

This local death certificate will be accepted in the UK. It may need to be a certified translation of the document if it’s not in English.

Register the death with the UK authorities

You can also apply to register the death with the UK authorities. You don’t have to do this, but it means:

• the death will be recorded with the General Register Offices (for England, Wales and Northern Ireland) and the National Records Office of Scotland
• you can order a consular death registration certificate

 

[Sheryl]

Are you sure that not having the death recorded with the General Register/National Records Office will not present a problem in applying for death benefits and processing a will in the UK?

And also that an English translation of Thai death certificate not certified by a UK government entity will be accepted? (E.g. translation by Thai MoFA or private company....some private hospitals may have bilingual death certificates but those issued by govt hospitals and local authorities are purely on Thai)


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[scorecard]

1 hour ago, BaanOz said:

Our cash is and will stay put in Australia and we living in Thailand. My Aussie/Thai wife and I are thinking to use NSW Trustee & Guardian and as executor. Everything going to her family if we "go" together and if I go first want to make it easier for Mrs Baanoz.

Wife has no family in Australia and I am the youngest of my siblings. We have no other family I would trust to be executor. Whoever is the executor would have to sort out and transfer to the wifes family.

Anyone with ideas about this and wondering what others have done, is there any other options other than using the Australian Public Trustee? I'm thinking using a solicitor/lawyer as an executor could be riskier.
 

 

Decades ago both of my parents used the Public Trustee office (I guess it's now called NSW Trustee and Guardian).

 

They were active from the day after both deaths, efficient, focused and structured, and within around 30 days they finalized everything, including all assets changed to new owners name(s), all debts paid, all money deposited to banks accounts, and they kept us clearly informed all the way,

 

 

[BaanOz]

22 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Decades ago both of my parents used the Public Trustee office (I guess it's now called NSW Trustee and Guardian).

Thanks, yes it's the same thing. Just a name change and now they charge for wills ?. Back then I don't think they did.

Anyway I've a feeling it's the NSW Trustee and Guardian (Public Trustee) only way to go for us. Unless you have relos back home, I'm guessing expats here would use them (or similar) too.

 

[ELVIS123456]

On 6/24/2018 at 1:04 PM, BaanOz said:

Thanks, yes it's the same thing. Just a name change and now they charge for wills ?. Back then I don't think they did.

Anyway I've a feeling it's the NSW Trustee and Guardian (Public Trustee) only way to go for us. Unless you have relos back home, I'm guessing expats here would use them (or similar) too.
 

Mate - check out their costs.  If varied from State to State, but when I last checked them out they were very expensive - after you die.  They would take 18% of the estate and then also charge for each and every service they provide.  I found that a solicitor would be far cheaper after death, although they charge much more to create and store the Will.  The old Public Trustee was publicly funded as a free service, with minimal costs both before anbd after death.  Now they have been 'corporatised', and most employees kept og course and public massive waste and inefficiencies, so they have huge overheads to pay for. So they 'catch' people who think they are cheap - they mainatain that illusions by being cheap to prepare and to store Wills.  Great for someone that has nothing much to leave, but if you have any money/estate, they take a huge chunk for their fees.  Needless to say, nut I took the Solicitor option.

[oldrunner]

Long time US marriage to Thai citizen (US Civil Marriage) and I need corrective advice? Was told by a fellow American that if the American dies at his home, here in Thailand, it is necessary to contact the Thai Police who will take the body to Police Mortician in Bangkok for Autopsy. When autopsy is completed the body can be released to spouse, along with a Death Certificate and this certificate can be presented to US Embassy for numerous copies of legal death certificate for Insurance policies, etc. in my case for a family funeral.

I will double check with the American Embassy but they may insist on a payment as they do nothing for US Citizens for free.

US expat