What to do when an Ex Pat dies in Thailand.

[Sheryl]

Long time US marriage to Thai citizen (US Civil Marriage) and I need corrective advice? Was told by a fellow American that if the American dies at his home, here in Thailand, it is necessary to contact the Thai Police who will take the body to Police Mortician in Bangkok for Autopsy. When autopsy is completed the body can be released to spouse, along with a Death Certificate and this certificate can be presented to US Embassy for numerous copies of legal death certificate for Insurance policies, etc. in my case for a family funeral.
I will double check with the American Embassy but they may insist on a payment as they do nothing for US Citizens for free.
US expat

No charge for getting the Embassy certification of death abroad when I did it for someone a few years back.

Autopsy is not required (or usual) for natural death if under a doctors care. The primary purpose of the authorities taking the body initially is to ensure it is not released until Embassy notified and gives the ok. This process can be accelerated in some cases to avoid need for the body to go elsewhere e.g. if Embassy immediately notified of death and that there is a Thai spouse they may authorize release of the body on the spot.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NancyL]

I can verify what Sheryl wrote.  The Certificate of Death of American Abroad is one of the few free documents the U.S. Embassy issues and they will give the Next-of-Kin, NOK designee, or executor of the Final Will multiple notarized copies for free.  It will be necessary to bring a translated copy of the Thai death certificate to the Embassy, but they could suggest a translation company that will do the service within an hour or two for a very modest fee. 

 

At least based on my experience in Chiang Mai where Star Visa, down the road from the U.S. Consulate can translate a Thai death certificate in a couple hours for a couple hundred baht and deliver it to the Consulate, too.  All I've had to do is come to the Consulate the next day to pick up the U.S. documents.

 

You may not think you need twenty original death certificates, but when you start investigating someone's life you may find life insurance policies connected with their credit cards, bank accounts, military service, etc that they never knew they had -- all requiring an original death certificate to pay out.  Many are just for a few thousand dollars, but if you're helping a Thai widow, it can add up.

[marcusarelus]

American Embassy site says, "If the deceased had a Last Will & Testament, send it to American Citizen Services by email or fax."

 

But they don't list an email address anywhere on the American embassy site. 

 

Anyone know that the American Embassy in Bangkok's email address is? 

[NancyL]

[email protected] 

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, NancyL said:

[email protected] 

Thanks much

[nong38]

Just  a little advice on fax's in Thailand, I have yet to find a place that can send a fax "out of Thailand". I guess it depends where you are but it seems either the machine is set for internal only or they don't know what the cost is going to be or, they don't understand about international codes. If you are not in a big city or ex pat centre you might have a problem sending a fax.

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, nong38 said:

Just  a little advice on fax's in Thailand, I have yet to find a place that can send a fax "out of Thailand". I guess it depends where you are but it seems either the machine is set for internal only or they don't know what the cost is going to be or, they don't understand about international codes. If you are not in a big city or ex pat centre you might have a problem sending a fax.

The problem is that they do not have international phone service set up for their phone line. It is separate from the domestic call service. Unless it has changed you get a separate bill for international calls from CAT as well.

[NancyL]

Yes, it's a problem to send international faxes in Thailand.  In Chiang Mai, Buddy Internet across from Kad Suan Kaew mall can do it, but I suggest you go during the day when their A-team is on duty, because in the evening, the second string often seems clueless about sending an international fax.

[JimGant]

Fax machines hooked to a modem and telephone line are museum pieces. Just like you can make your phone calls over the internet, you can do the same for faxes,  essentially like an attachment to an email. Many free services out there. Google it.

https://www.howtogeek.com/168841/how-to-send-and-receive-faxes-online-without-a-fax-machine-or-phone-line/

[JimGant]

Quote

American Embassy site says, "If the deceased had a Last Will & Testament, send it to American Citizen Services by email or fax."

For what purpose?

[NancyL]

30 minutes ago, JimGant said:

For what purpose?

So they know who is the legal Next-of-Kin (or executor) to make decisions about what to do with the body and the deceased possessions.  The morgue won't release a body without the OK from the Embassy/Consulate.

[JimGant]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

So they know who is the legal Next-of-Kin (or executor) to make decisions about what to do with the body and the deceased possessions.  The morgue won't release a body without the OK from the Embassy/Consulate.

Interesting that they'll use a Will to substantiate a next-of-kin (NOK), the absence of which means having the wife (or someone on the NOK pecking order) fill out a form DS 5511:  https://eforms.state.gov/Forms/ds5511.pdf

 

Quote

The Thai forensic institute or hospital may require a letter of instruction from the U.S. Embassy to release remains of a U.S. citizen into the custody of the next-of-kin or designated representative.The American Citizen Services unit can produce a letter of instruction upon receipt of explicit written guidance in the form of a legal will or a signed and notarized Affidavit of Next-of-Kin (DS 5511) in some cases.

So, if I leave everything to my legal wife, then my Will is all the consulate needs to establish her as NOK -- and she won't have to fill out, and have notarized, a DS 5511 form?

[rosst]

I have been putting it off for years, a timely reminder to set my affairs in order. 

[scorecard]

11 hours ago, nong38 said:

Just  a little advice on fax's in Thailand, I have yet to find a place that can send a fax "out of Thailand". I guess it depends where you are but it seems either the machine is set for internal only or they don't know what the cost is going to be or, they don't understand about international codes. If you are not in a big city or ex pat centre you might have a problem sending a fax.

 

Bigger hotels usually have international fax facilities, some will allow outside customers to use it (not free), some won't.

Check with the hotel business centre rather than the lobby staff.

 

I'm not a techie person, but perhaps in the near future fax will be totally obsolete, taken over by better e.mail encryption facilities. 

 

 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Interesting that they'll use a Will to substantiate a next-of-kin (NOK), the absence of which means having the wife (or someone on the NOK pecking order) fill out a form DS 5511:  https://eforms.state.gov/Forms/ds5511.pdf

 

So, if I leave everything to my legal wife, then my Will is all the consulate needs to establish her as NOK -- and she won't have to fill out, and have notarized, a DS 5511 form?

 

I know that some farang have been advised to state it specifically in the will; 'For all purposes I hereby state that my next of kin is xxxxxxxxxxxx, Thai ID card No. / passport no.  zzzzzzzzz '. Etc.

 

You can also confidentially officially record details like this on the websites of some embassies. 

You can do this on the Australian embassy website  and they also ask specifically who should be contacted at home upon your death. You can indicate that you don't want anybody to be contacted.

 

 

 

 

[NancyL]

3 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Bigger hotels usually have international fax facilities, some will allow outside customers to use it (not free), some won't.

Check with the hotel business centre rather than the lobby staff.

 

I'm not a techie person, but perhaps in the near future fax will be totally obsolete, taken over by better e.mail encryption facilities. 

 

 

Having worked in businesses where the fax machine was definitely not a "secure" machine, I'd consider anything sent by email to be much more secure.

 

I remember back in the 80s where one of my customers lived and died by the faxed orders they received.  When things got dry out on the shop floor, the hourly employees took to hanging around the fax machine waiting for orders to come in, while they drank coffee, since the fax machine was conveniently in the staff coffee room.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

Having worked in businesses where the fax machine was definitely not a "secure" machine, I'd consider anything sent by email to be much more secure.

 

I remember back in the 80s where one of my customers lived and died by the faxed orders they received.  When things got dry out on the shop floor, the hourly employees took to hanging around the fax machine waiting for orders to come in, while they drank coffee, since the fax machine was conveniently in the staff coffee room.

 

The first time I wanted to transfer funds from my bank in OZ to Thailand, many years back, I asked if they would accept the completed form as an e.mail attachment. The answer no because it's not secure, but they would accept it by fax because fax more secure. Perhaps that was because the receiving number and fax machine was in a secure location with limited access?

 

 

 

 

[R123]

Hopefully, someone can outline the correct procedure to follow if say a UK passport holder living long time in BKK dies.

 

Scenario: the deceased has left a valid Thai Will and appointed a Thai person as executor. The Will states that all matter are to be dealt with in Thailand such as funeral arrangements etc and dispersal of Thai property. Any property outside of Thailand is dealt with by a separate UK Will and separate executors.

 

What must the Thai executor do?

1 Inform the police: right?

2: get a death certificate: from a hospital doctor?

3. Inform a Thai government department in Thailand to confirm the death certificate; which dept if any and what is needed?

4 Notify the British Embassy and briefly what formalities are required since there is no repatriation of the body?

5. Inform any next of kin?

6 What else?

 

if anyone can assist with info I would appreciate it!

 

 

 

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, R123 said:

Hopefully, someone can outline the correct procedure to follow if say a UK passport holder living long time in BKK dies.

 

Scenario: the deceased has left a valid Thai Will and appointed a Thai person as executor. The Will states that all matter are to be dealt with in Thailand such as funeral arrangements etc and dispersal of Thai property. Any property outside of Thailand is dealt with by a separate UK Will and separate executors.

 

What must the Thai executor do?

1 Inform the police: right?

2: get a death certificate: from a hospital doctor?

3. Inform a Thai government department in Thailand to confirm the death certificate; which dept if any and what is needed?

4 Notify the British Embassy and briefly what formalities are required since there is no repatriation of the body?

5. Inform any next of kin?

6 What else?

 

if anyone can assist with info I would appreciate it!

Company called Thai888 does the executor for around 50,000 baht.  Might want to ask them. 

[nong38]

11 minutes ago, R123 said:

Hopefully, someone can outline the correct procedure to follow if say a UK passport holder living long time in BKK dies.

 

Scenario: the deceased has left a valid Thai Will and appointed a Thai person as executor. The Will states that all matter are to be dealt with in Thailand such as funeral arrangements etc and dispersal of Thai property. Any property outside of Thailand is dealt with by a separate UK Will and separate executors.

 

What must the Thai executor do?

1 Inform the police: right?

2: get a death certificate: from a hospital doctor?

3. Inform a Thai government department in Thailand to confirm the death certificate; which dept if any and what is needed?

4 Notify the British Embassy and briefly what formalities are required since there is no repatriation of the body?

5. Inform any next of kin?

6 What else?

 

if anyone can assist with info I would appreciate it!

 

 

 

Is he married legally, might make a difference, the wife can take charge of things. If she has been informed what to do and in what order.

[nong38]

Something to look out for UK expats, I understand that the British Embassy has been sold and they will at some move to a new location, when the do make sure you have all the new contact details, don't assume only the address is new.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

Is he married legally, might make a difference, the wife can take charge of things. If she has been informed what to do and in what order.

I believe she still has to go to probate court.  Most wives not prepared for that. 

[nong38]

She should be able to inform the Embassy, inform the police, get the body released to a temple, its is usually there for 3 days maybe 7 for traditional ceremony. If she not up to it she should engage a local lawyer or seek help from the local "headman" for help. She will need the death certificate from hospital or if it happened at home the doctor who attended, if you look at my fist post you will get an idea of how it goes but remember in that post he was not married so if adapt as you go and jot down a running order that makes sense you will be on the way. As far as the probate is concerned and I am not a lawyer by the way, you will need to take the death certificate along with the will, a lawyer might be handy at this point who will know the rules so that the process of dealing with his affairs and attending to the will.

[NancyL]

3 hours ago, R123 said:

Hopefully, someone can outline the correct procedure to follow if say a UK passport holder living long time in BKK dies.

 

Scenario: the deceased has left a valid Thai Will and appointed a Thai person as executor. The Will states that all matter are to be dealt with in Thailand such as funeral arrangements etc and dispersal of Thai property. Any property outside of Thailand is dealt with by a separate UK Will and separate executors.

 

What must the Thai executor do?

1 Inform the police: right?

2: get a death certificate: from a hospital doctor?

3. Inform a Thai government department in Thailand to confirm the death certificate; which dept if any and what is needed?

4 Notify the British Embassy and briefly what formalities are required since there is no repatriation of the body?

5. Inform any next of kin?

6 What else?

 

if anyone can assist with info I would appreciate it!

 

 

 

You should start by reading this:  https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death

[R123]

"You should start by reading this:  https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death "

 

Next to useless I am asking specifically about Thailand/death IN Thailand and the precise particulars and not generalizations.

 

I have read this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/information-relating-to-deaths-in-thailand

 

And I have read this:

 

 

https://www.gov.uk/register-a-death/y/overseas/thailand/same_country

 

I have gone thru the whole of this thread trying to glean the info needed. Plus researched around the internet and asked others.

 

A Thai executor is not a lawyer and needs to know what to do in simple terms. OK call the police and get a 'death certificate" from a doctor/hospital.

Go to a government dept with the death certificate? Which govern dept. and where is it located in BKK?

etc etc

All I want is the practical steps needed to be taken and it seems to me no one on the thread seems able to just explain in clear and straightforward terms what to do.

 

Thank u....

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

54 minutes ago, R123 said:

OK call the police and get a 'death certificate" from a doctor/hospital.

Go to a government dept with the death certificate? Which govern dept. and where is it located in BKK?

etc etc

The death certificate is issued by a Amphoe (district office). The doctor/hospital has to sign off on a form to get the death certificate issued.

[R123]

Taken the info below from a 2014 thread on TV which is more like what I am researching ... not sure if accurate(and I have made an addition).

 

I will seek the advice of a Thai lawyer and post on here again if I have time and it appropriate:

 

1) person dies (in hospital, natural causes, no foul play = no autopsy or police report required).

added by me: if dies not in hospital say at home, then police are called.

2) hospital makes death certificate, moves body to morgue.

3) death certificate has to be registered at local city hall

4) death certificate and passport to national's embassy - translate certificate, get certified copies (I recommend at least 10) and cancel passport.

5) get letter from embassy allowing disposal of the remains.

5a) if need be - have bank accounts frozen/locked, cancel phone, utilities, etc. Pack/move belongings if in rented accommodation.

6) make arrangements with temple (assuming cremation - if Buddhist/Muslim/etc then the appropriate temple will know the what/how to do's.)

7) funeral ceremony (simple or prolonged) and final disposal of remains.

 notify appropriate authorities in home country - many will required certified copies of death certificate and in some cases, certified copies of the Will as well.

Verify the Will (45 days after death - assuming the Will and assets are in Thailand)

9) disposal of assets.

10) someone told me that after a certain period of time (180 days ?) there is supposed to be another small ceremony of some kind for some reason

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725899-farang-death-procedure-in-thailand/?page=2

 

 

 

 

[lopburi3]

On 9/17/2017 at 7:06 PM, NancyL said:

No, it doesn't work this way.  When someone dies outside of hospital, there is usually the need for an autopsy to determine the cause of death, so your body will be taken to the hospital in your area that performs this service.

And in the case of yesterday's death of Filipino husband of Thai living across from me will delay funeral arrangements due his death at home (90 years old and too weak to feed himself) and yesterday/today and tomorrow holidays so nothing can even start until the 16th.    

[NancyL]

7 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

And in the case of yesterday's death of Filipino husband of Thai living across from me will delay funeral arrangements due his death at home (90 years old and too weak to feed himself) and yesterday/today and tomorrow holidays so nothing can even start until the 16th.    

That cause of death is so sad.  If the poor man was still able to swallow, then someone should have been feeding him.  And even if he couldn't swallow, if he still had the will to live, an NG tube could have been inserted into his nose and down into his stomach and liquid food given to him that way.  It really isn't as uncomfortable as it sounds once it's installed.  The tube stays in place all the time and the person doesn't really know it's there -- they can still talk, swallow, blow their nose, etc.  I wonder if the police will investigate this as a form of elder abuse.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, NancyL said:

That cause of death is so sad.  If the poor man was still able to swallow, then someone should have been feeding him.  And even if he couldn't swallow, if he still had the will to live, an NG tube could have been inserted into his nose and down into his stomach and liquid food given to him that way.  It really isn't as uncomfortable as it sounds once it's installed.  The tube stays in place all the time and the person doesn't really know it's there -- they can still talk, swallow, blow their nose, etc.  I wonder if the police will investigate this as a form of elder abuse.

Sorry to be misleading but he was being fed by wife and able to eat that way (although she almost as weak) - just could not do by himself - but died after using toilet - just fell over and stopped breathing.