Iraqi Kurdish leader says 'yes' vote won independence referendum

[webfact]

Iraqi Kurdish leader says 'yes' vote won independence referendum

By Maher Chmaytelli and Ahmed Rasheed

 

Iraqi Kurdish president Masoud Barzani speaks during a news conference in Erbil, Iraq September 24, 2017. REUTERS/Azad Lashkari

 

BAGHDAD/ERBIL, Iraq (Reuters) - Iraqi Kurdish leader Masoud Barzani said on Tuesday that Kurds had voted "yes" to independence in a referendum held in defiance of the government in Baghdad and which had angered their neighbours and their U.S. allies.

 

The Kurds, who have ruled over an autonomous region within Iraq since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein, consider Monday's referendum to be an historic step in a generations-old quest for a state of their own.

 

Iraq considers the vote unconstitutional, especially as it was held not only within the Kurdish region itself but also on disputed territory held by Kurds elsewhere in northern Iraq.

 

The United States, major European countries and neighbours Turkey and Iran strongly opposed the decision to hold the referendum, which they described as destabilising at a time when all sides are still fighting against Islamic State militants.

 

In a televised address, Barzani said the "yes" vote had won and he called on Iraq's central government in Baghdad to engage in "serious dialogue" instead of threatening the Kurdish Regional Government with sanctions.

 

The Iraqi government earlier ruled out talks on Kurdish independence and Turkey threatened to impose a blockade.

"We may face hardship but we will overcome," Barzani said, calling on world powers "to respect the will of millions of people" who voted in the referendum.

 

Earlier, the Kurdish Rudaw TV channel said an overwhelming majority, possibly over 90 percent, had voted "yes". Final results are expected by Wednesday.

 

Celebrations continued until the early hours of Tuesday in Erbil, capital of the Kurdish region, which was lit by fireworks and adorned with Kurdish red-white-green flags. People danced in the squares as convoys of cars drove around honking their horns.

 

In ethnically mixed Kirkuk, where Arabs and Turkmen opposed the vote, authorities lifted an overnight curfew imposed to maintain control. Kirkuk, located atop huge oil resources, is outside the Kurdish region but controlled by Kurdish forces that occupied it in 2014 after driving out Islamic State fighters.

 

In neighbouring Iran, which also has a large Kurdish minority, thousands of Kurds marched in support of the referendum, defying a show of strength by Tehran which flew fighter jets over their areas.

 

The referendum has fuelled fears of a new regional conflict. Turkey, which has fought a Kurdish insurgency within its borders for decades, reiterated threats of economic and military retaliation.

 

Barzani, who is president of the Kurdish Regional Government, has said the vote is not binding, but meant to provide a mandate for negotiations with Baghdad and neighbouring countries over the peaceful secession of the region from Iraq.

 

IRAQI OPPOSITION

 

Baghdad said there would be no such talks.

 

"We are not ready to discuss or have a dialogue about the results of the referendum because it is unconstitutional," Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi said on Monday night.

 

Abadi ordered the Kurds to hand over control of their airports to the central government within three days or face an international embargo on flights.

 

Abadi, a moderate from Iraq's Shi'ite Arab majority, is coming under pressure at home to take punitive measures against the Kurds. Hardline Iranian-backed Shi'ite groups have threatened to march on Kirkuk.

 

"We as Popular Mobilisation would be fully prepared to carry out orders from Abadi if he asks to liberate Kirkuk and the oilfields from the separatist militias," said Hashim al-Mouasawi, a spokesman for the al-Nujabaa paramilitary group.

 

The Kurds, who speak their own language related to Persian, were left without a state of their own when the Ottoman empire crumbled a century ago. Around 30 million are scattered in northern Iraq, southeastern Turkey and parts of Syria and Iran.

 

The autonomous region they control in Iraq is the closest the Kurds have come in modern times to a state. It has flourished, largely remaining at peace while the rest of Iraq has been in a continuous state of civil war for 14 years.

 

Since the fall of Saddam, they have had to carefully balance their ambitions for full independence with the threat of a backlash from their neighbours and the reluctance of Washington to redraw borders.

 

In the past four years they achieved a measure of economic independence by opening a route to sell oil through pipelines to a port in Turkey. But that still leaves them at the mercy of Ankara, which draws a firm line at formal independence.

 

Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan warned that Iraqi Kurds would go hungry if Turkey imposed sanctions, and said military and economic measures could be used against them.

 

"This referendum decision, which has been taken without any consultation, is treachery," he said, repeating threats to cut off the pipeline.

 

The Kurds say the referendum acknowledges their contribution in confronting Islamic State after it overwhelmed the Iraqi army in 2014 and seized control of a third of Iraq.

 

Voters were asked to say 'yes' or 'no' to the question: "Do you want the Kurdistan Region and Kurdistani areas outside the (Kurdistan) Region to become an independent country?"

 

Iraqi soldiers joined Turkish troops for military exercises in southeast Turkey on Tuesday near the border with the Kurdistan region. Turkey also took the Rudaw TV channel off its satellite service TurkSat.

 

STATE DEPARTMENT

 

Iraq's Kurds have been close allies of the United States since Washington offered them protection from Saddam in 1991. But the United States has long encouraged the Kurds to avoid unilateral steps so as not to jeopardise the stability of Iraq or antagonise Turkey.

 

The U.S. State Department said it was "deeply disappointed" by the decision to conduct the referendum but Washington's relationship with region's people would not change.

 

Asked about the referendum, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said on Monday: “We hope for a unified Iraq to annihilate ISIS (Islamic State) and certainly a unified Iraq to push back on Iran.”

 

The European Union regretted that the Kurds had failed to heed its call not to hold the referendum and said Iraqi unity remained essential in facing the threat from Islamic State.

 

The Kremlin said Moscow backed the territorial integrity of countries in the region. Unlike other powers, Russia had not directly called on the Kurds to cancel the referendum. Moscow has quietly pledged billions of dollars in investment in the past year, becoming the biggest funders of the Kurds.

 

Iran banned flights to and from Kurdistan on Sunday, while Baghdad asked foreign countries to stop oil trading with the Kurdish region and demanded that the KRG hand over control of its international airports and border posts with Iran, Turkey and Syria.

 

Iranian Major General Yahya Rahim Safavi, a top adviser to the Supreme Leader, called on "the four neighbouring countries to block land borders" with the Iraqi Kurdish region, according to state news agency IRNA. Tehran supports Shi'ite Muslim groups that are powerful in Baghdad.

 

Syria, embroiled in a civil war and whose Kurds are pressing ahead with their own self-determination, also rejected the referendum.

 

KRG Prime Minister Nechirvan Barzani said he hoped to maintain good relations with Turkey.

 

"The referendum does not mean independence will happen tomorrow, nor are we redrawing borders," he said in Erbil on Monday. "If the 'yes' vote wins, we will resolve our issues with Baghdad peacefully."

 

 

(Additional reporting by Ece Toksabay in ANKARA and Umit Bektas in HABUR, Turkey; Editing by Philippa Fletcher, Peter Graff and Giles Elgood)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-27

[craigt3365]

Best of luck to these people.  Seems many are against this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/25/middleeast/kurdish-referendum-latest/index.html

Quote

 

On Sunday, Iran closed its air space to the autonomous Kurdistan region after issuing several condemnations against the vote.

 

And as voters cast their ballots Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan described the referendum as "illegal" and suggested Turkey could cut off oil exports from northern Iraq, depriving the KRG of a key source of revenue.

 

 

[Scott]

Of course many are against it.   Turkey is scared witless.   About 20% of the Turkish population is Kurdish and they are largely in the area near Iraq.   Iran also has a large Kurdish population.   Both Turkey and Iran have a history of persecution of Kurds.  

 

But it really doesn't make much difference.   Anything that is done by anybody seems to result in violence in that region.  

[tonray]

Let's see what the right says in the US now, 2 years ago it was "Obama not supporting the Kurds, he should give them their independence...blah blah blah."

 

A lot harder now when you have to make the decisions.

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, tonray said:

Let's see what the right says in the US now, 2 years ago it was "Obama not supporting the Kurds, he should give them their independence...blah blah blah."

 

A lot harder now when you have to make the decisions.

From what I've read, their comments seem spot on.  A united Iraq is needed to fight ISIS.  Dividing up the country will only weaken it.  EU is saying the same thing.  Moscow isn't, per the above. LOL

[tonray]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

From what I've read, their comments seem spot on.  A united Iraq is needed to fight ISIS.  Dividing up the country will only weaken it.  EU is saying the same thing.  Moscow isn't, per the above. LOL

Yes...agreed but not what they were saying 2 years ago....Obama was all wrong in not pushing for Kurdish independence, according to the "everything Obama did was wrong" crew.

[Scott]

US policy has almost always been to support the territorial integrity of a country, so independence movements such as this do not receive support.   The dilemma comes about when they actually declare independence and the decision has to be made to recognize a new country.  

[Silurian]

The problem is that many of these middle east countries "borders" were drawn up by Europeans after WWI. They didn't really consider the religious and cultural aspects when creating the borders. Now when you get something like Iraq that has at least three majorly distinctive cultures, it only is a matter of time when one of them wants to break off.

 

I believe that the Kurds should have their own country (which most of them already believe they do). Kurdistan is a proto-state that even has its own form of government and is for the most part US friendly. Its formal creation might even create a fairly stable new country that is desperately needed in that region.

 

For anyone interested in Kurdistan should do some research into how is exists.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

 

[BuaBS]

5 hours ago, Silurian said:

The problem is that many of these middle east countries "borders" were drawn up by Europeans after WWI. They didn't really consider the religious and cultural aspects when creating the borders.

And of course , it's about the rich oil fields there too.

 

[Scott]

The map you show is not even close to the proposed borders of Kurdistan. 

 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Silurian said:

The problem is that many of these middle east countries "borders" were drawn up by Europeans after WWI. They didn't really consider the religious and cultural aspects when creating the borders. Now when you get something like Iraq that has at least three majorly distinctive cultures, it only is a matter of time when one of them wants to break off.

 

I believe that the Kurds should have their own country (which most of them already believe they do). Kurdistan is a proto-state that even has its own form of government and is for the most part US friendly. Its formal creation might even create a fairly stable new country that is desperately needed in that region.

 

For anyone interested in Kurdistan should do some research into how is exists.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

 

Here's another problem created by Europeans in that area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes–Picot_Agreement

Quote

The Sykes–Picot Agreement /ˈsaɪks pi.koʊ/, officially known as the Asia Minor Agreement, was a secret 1916 agreement between the United Kingdom and France,^[1] to which the Russian Empire assented. The agreement defined their mutually agreed spheres of influence and control in Southwestern Asia. The agreement was based on the premise that the Triple Entente would succeed in defeating the Ottoman Empire during World War I.

 

[BuaBS]

5 hours ago, Scott said:

The map you show is not even close to the proposed borders of Kurdistan. 

 

It's a map where Kurdstan should be , including the Turk , Iran and Syrian territories.

More detail of Iraqi part :

Edited September 27, 2017 by BuaBS

[Speedo1968]

STATE DEPARTMENT

 

Iraq's Kurds have been close allies of the United States since Washington offered them protection from Saddam in 1991. But the United States has long encouraged the Kurds to avoid unilateral steps so as not to jeopardise the stability of Iraq or antagonise Turkey.

 

Yesterday we ( the US ) needed you ( the Kurds' ) today's a different matter !

 

[craigt3365]

Just now, Speedo1968 said:

STATE DEPARTMENT

 

Iraq's Kurds have been close allies of the United States since Washington offered them protection from Saddam in 1991. But the United States has long encouraged the Kurds to avoid unilateral steps so as not to jeopardise the stability of Iraq or antagonise Turkey.

 

Yesterday we ( the US ) needed you ( the Kurds' ) today's a different matter !

 

What's wrong with that?  The entire dynamics of that area has changed dramatically.  You need to keep up with the times, not get stuck in the past.  And right now, unity is a good thing.  I hope they get their own country, but until things calm down there, it might be best to leave things as they are.

 

You need to post references to your sources also....please.

[nasanews]

As the Brits divided lands they colonized and now we see them being divided like Ireland and soon Scotland will declare independence U.S.A will be next.

 

crazy idea isn't it!

[Morch]

50 minutes ago, nasanews said:

As the Brits divided lands they colonized and now we see them being divided like Ireland and soon Scotland will declare independence U.S.A will be next.

 

crazy idea isn't it!

 

Just an incoherent one.

[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Just an incoherent one.

I was going to reply, but couldn't figure out how. LOL

[RuamRudy]

On 9/27/2017 at 11:33 AM, craigt3365 said:

What's wrong with that?  The entire dynamics of that area has changed dramatically.  You need to keep up with the times, not get stuck in the past.  And right now, unity is a good thing.  I hope they get their own country, but until things calm down there, it might be best to leave things as they are.

 

You need to post references to your sources also....please.

If I understand correctly, what you are essentially saying is that the Kurds should remain in, what is to them, a deeply unsatisfactory situation because the Western world has destabilised the region so badly that, were the Kurds to try to better themselves, the entire region will suffer and the West will have further problems to deal with? While I can accept that premise at a high level, I think that would be a hard sell to the individual - and rightly so. The west has showed no concern for them as individuals - why should they care for the wishes of rich white men in Washington?

[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If I understand correctly, what you are essentially saying is that the Kurds should remain in, what is to them, a deeply unsatisfactory situation because the Western world has destabilised the region so badly that, were the Kurds to try to better themselves, the entire region will suffer and the West will have further problems to deal with? While I can accept that premise at a high level, I think that would be a hard sell to the individual - and rightly so. The west has showed no concern for them as individuals - why should they care for the wishes of rich white men in Washington?

Just watched the news where the Iraqi government has stopped IS operations in that region. They were going after the last IS stronghold. The Kurds aren't strong enough to do it on their own.

 

Not a good thing. I'm 100% for their independence. But we need to deal with IS first. Right?

[Credo]

In that region, the  Kurds could wait another 3 or 4,000 years for the time to be right.   

[Scott]

25 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Just watched the news where the Iraqi government has stopped IS operations in that region. They were going after the last IS stronghold. The Kurds aren't strong enough to do it on their own.

 

Not a good thing. I'm 100% for their independence. But we need to deal with IS first. Right?

The Kurdish area is still a part of Iraq and the Iraqi army has every right to go after ISIS.   The referendum is not independence.   Gaining full independence will be a long protracted process.  

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, Scott said:

The Kurdish area is still a part of Iraq and the Iraqi army has every right to go after ISIS.   The referendum is not independence.   Gaining full independence will be a long protracted process.  

I guess the Iraq army is pissed at the Kurds for the vote.  So, they're not helping them.  Troops were suppose to show up yesterday and no word on when they'll arrive.  They're leaving it up to the Kurds to fight, but they're not strong enough to take IS on alone.

[simple1]

Kurds are heading towards more grief. I imaging it will be increasingly difficult for the US to try and achieve a balance of power and co-ordinate resources against Daesh. 

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-kurds-referendum-turke/turkey-stops-training-iraqi-kurdish-peshmerga-after-independence-vote-idUKKCN1C3149

 

Any noise from the Trump Administration for flashes of strategic brilliance?

 

 

[JemJem]

What a frickin surprise ! The West has once again sold out the Kurds.

 

As an anti-fascist  Turk, I am disgusted. The West continues to side (for various reasons) with the Islamofascist Erdogan (and the Iranians).

 

Erdogan is, in my opinion, currently, the number one threat to modern civilisation.

 

The Kurds deserve much better.

 

Shame on the world !

 

Shame !

[Morch]

14 hours ago, JemJem said:

What a frickin surprise ! The West has once again sold out the Kurds.

 

As an anti-fascist  Turk, I am disgusted. The West continues to side (for various reasons) with the Islamofascist Erdogan (and the Iranians).

 

Erdogan is, in my opinion, currently, the number one threat to modern civilisation.

 

The Kurds deserve much better.

 

Shame on the world !

 

Shame !

 

Erdogan is many things, none of them particularly nice - but "number one threat to modern civilization" is not on the list. That's about as grandiose as Erdogan's view of his own importance. As an example, and to add some perspective, worth bearing in mind the way he was swiftly put in place by Putin, following the interception of the Russian aircraft (2015).