Will Shinawatras stir the political pot from abroad?

[473geo]

Well may or may not stir the pot, but will be involved in politics for a longtime to come, as surely their names will be bandied about in attempts to disperse and divert opinions/comments on any poor government performances, as and when required 

 

Scorecard, Baerboxer, Halloween, Robblok to name but a few that will surely haul the Shinawatras into present day political discussion for some time to come. 

[jayboy]

11 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Well may or may not stir the pot, but will be involved in politics for a longtime to come, as surely their names will be bandied about in attempts to disperse and divert opinions/comments on any poor government performances, as and when required 

 

Scorecard, Baerboxer, Halloween, Robblok to name but a few that will surely haul the Shinawatras into present day political discussion for some time to come. 

Well it's understandable really.We should be grateful to our little band of Junta loyalists.After all Thaksin is responsible even in his deserved exile for all the disasters that afflict Thailand.His hand is everywhere stirring up trouble and undermining the efforts of our great leaders.

 

Does any of this sound familiar?

 

"Comrades," he said quietly, "do you know who is responsible for this? Do
you know the enemy who has come in the night and overthrown our windmill?
SNOWBALL!" he suddenly roared in a voice of thunder. "Snowball has done
this thing! In sheer malignity, thinking to set back our plans and avenge
himself for his ignominious expulsion, this traitor has crept here under
cover of night and destroyed our work of nearly a year. Comrades, here
and now I pronounce the death sentence upon Snowball. 'Animal Hero, Second
Class,' and half a bushel of apples to any animal who brings him to
justice. A full bushel to anyone who captures him alive!"

The animals were shocked beyond measure to learn that even Snowball could
be guilty of such an action. There was a cry of indignation, and everyone
began thinking out ways of catching Snowball if he should ever come back.
Almost immediately the footprints of a pig were discovered in the grass at
a little distance from the knoll. They could only be traced for a few
yards, but appeared to lead to a hole in the hedge. Napoleon snuffed
deeply at them and pronounced them to be Snowball's.

 

Animal Farm

George Orwell

[metisdead]

Nonsense posts have been removed.

[Reigntax]

4 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

An attempt at amnesty is what brought down the last government.  Never gonna happen.

 

And a sucessful amnesty for the military is the only thing that gave them the balls to overthrow the government and thus save themselves from the gallows

[chickenslegs]

13 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Does any of this sound familiar? ...

 

Animal Farm

George Orwell

 

From the same book ...

 

You would often hear ... two cows, enjoying a drink at the pool, would exclaim, "Thanks to the leadership of Comrade Napoleon, how excellent this water tastes!"

 

Sort of reminds me of some of the comments from Junta supporters.

[Thechook]

Well they can gather in a group of 5 or more, are permitted to actually discuss politics outside of Thailand so I guess it's very possible

[Thechook]

12 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

An attempt at amnesty is what brought down the last government.  Never gonna happen.

Why not?  Prayuth has been granted a full unconditional amnesty.

[steven100]

9 hours ago, jayboy said:

Well it's understandable really.We should be grateful to our little band of Junta loyalists.After all Thaksin is responsible even in his deserved exile for all the disasters that afflict Thailand.His hand is everywhere stirring up trouble and undermining the efforts of our great leaders.

 

Does any of this sound familiar?

 

"Comrades," he said quietly, "do you know who is responsible for this? Do
you know the enemy who has come in the night and overthrown our windmill?
SNOWBALL!" he suddenly roared in a voice of thunder. "Snowball has done
this thing! In sheer malignity, thinking to set back our plans and avenge
himself for his ignominious expulsion, this traitor has crept here under
cover of night and destroyed our work of nearly a year. Comrades, here
and now I pronounce the death sentence upon Snowball. 'Animal Hero, Second
Class,' and half a bushel of apples to any animal who brings him to
justice. A full bushel to anyone who captures him alive!"

The animals were shocked beyond measure to learn that even Snowball could
be guilty of such an action. There was a cry of indignation, and everyone
began thinking out ways of catching Snowball if he should ever come back.
Almost immediately the footprints of a pig were discovered in the grass at
a little distance from the knoll. They could only be traced for a few
yards, but appeared to lead to a hole in the hedge. Napoleon snuffed
deeply at them and pronounced them to be Snowball's.

 

Animal Farm

George Orwell

they reaped billions of baht to support their own personal luxurious lifestyle's.

Edited October 1, 2017 by steven100

[rkidlad]

Yingluck won’t. The deputy PM already said as much. He may not have known where she was at the time, but he knew she wouldn’t be continuing in politics. He even stated it for the record. 

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Thechook said:

Why not?  Prayuth has been granted a full unconditional amnesty.

The amnesty discussed was for the Shins, not the current government.

[jayboy]

14 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Nah, that's what started the protests.  Along with a variety of other problems.  That's the cause of the downfall.  All tied to the Shins.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/world/asia/possible-amnesty-for-former-thai-prime-minister-causes-uproar.html?mcubz=1

 

 

You are confusing the cause with the excuse.The ill considered amnesty was a catalyst but it was not the cause.The fundamental cause was the resentment by the ruling class and their middle class supporters at the politicisation of the Thai majority.This process has been apparent for nearly 20 years.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, jayboy said:

You are confusing the cause with the excuse.The ill considered amnesty was a catalyst but it was not the cause.The fundamental cause was the resentment by the ruling class and their middle class supporters at the politicisation of the Thai majority.This process has been apparent for nearly 20 years.

Understood.  But the cause of that government's downfall was the amnesty bill.  And the following protests fueled by it.  Which were out of control, as normal! LOL

 

Perhaps the fundamental cause was also the increased corruption by the new political parties.  As has been discussed many times, a bit being taken off the top is OK.  Thaksin went way beyond that.  As did Yingluck, proven by the massive loses in the rice scam.

 

Either way, the color coded politics here have nothing to do with the average person and everything to do with those in power (i.e. making them rich). 

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

The amnesty discussed was for the Shins, not the current government.

 Why the discrepancy? Too hard to face the reality? One was a bill and didn't happen while the other was a law written into the interim constitution. 

[craigt3365]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

 Why the discrepancy? Too hard to face the reality? One was a bill and didn't happen while the other was a law written into the interim constitution. 

Because this topic is about the Shins.  Not the current government.

[Eric Loh]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Because this topic is about the Shins.  Not the current government.

 

I can agree to that. Just for the record, the PTP amnesty was a bill, withdrawn and not even reach the upper house to be debated before it become law. As JAG said, it was an borrowed excuse to intensify the chaos for the coup.  

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

Understood.  But the cause of that government's downfall was the amnesty bill.  And the following protests fueled by it.  Which were out of control, as normal! LOL

 

Perhaps the fundamental cause was also the increased corruption by the new political parties.  As has been discussed many times, a bit being taken off the top is OK.  Thaksin went way beyond that.  As did Yingluck, proven by the massive loses in the rice scam.

 

Either way, the color coded politics here have nothing to do with the average person and everything to do with those in power (i.e. making them rich). 

I mainly agree.So often in these discussions it's a matter of personal judgement where to place the balance.Quite often it's a matter of perspective - where does one sit in the scheme of things? I do think it's necessary to note that despite all the evils of corruption for some "corruption" became a code for democratically elected politicians.For these people it was difficult to say democracy is in itself wrong so they suggested instead all elected politicians are corrupt.I have heard the theory before and from people I respect that the problem was that Thaksin went over the limits of what was considered ok in the corruption stakes.I don't really buy this because the evidence is shaky whether corruption was much less widespread before or after Thaksin's time.

[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

I can agree to that. Just for the record, the PTP amnesty was a bill, withdrawn and not even reach the upper house to be debated before it become law. As JAG said, it was an borrowed excuse to intensify the chaos for the coup.  

The PTP amnesty bill was attempted to be shoved through the house in an inappropriate manner.  No denying that.  Thus, it was squashed and some brought up on charges for it.  It was the cause for the protests, which caused the coup.  IMHO.

 

Even some in the PTP were against the amnesty:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679962-why-the-amnesty-bill-has-caused-a-split-between-pheu-thai-and-the-red-shirts/

Quote

A wing of the red-shirts has publicly and vehemently opposed Pheu Thai's ramming through of the amnesty bill, which opens the way for clemency to be granted to Democrat leaders Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep Thaugsuban, whom they label "murderers", responsible for the deaths of at least 91 people during their 2010 crackdown on anti-government protests.

 

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The PTP amnesty bill was attempted to be shoved through the house in an inappropriate manner.  No denying that.  Thus, it was squashed and some brought up on charges for it.  It was the cause for the protests, which caused the coup.  IMHO.

 

Even some in the PTP were against the amnesty:

 

It was the cause of the protest and thousands came out and even the UDD spoke against it. BUT it was not the cause of the coup. It was months after the amnesty protest that the coup was staged. The coup was hatched in 2010.  

[craigt3365]

17 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

It was the cause of the protest and thousands came out and even the UDD spoke against it. BUT it was not the cause of the coup. It was months after the amnesty protest that the coup was staged. The coup was hatched in 2010.  

actually, the coup was probably hatched in the 80's. LOL

[Stargeezr]

It is so nice for the Big brother to own his luxury properties in the UK and Dubai, nice to take so much money out of Thailand that was likely ill gotten .  Hope he and sister

spend the rest of their lives in exile as well.

Geezer

[Ossy]

19 hours ago, greenchair said:

Now that the dems and the forces have got rid of the only opposition, let them eat cake and enjoy. 

 lets see the dems try to run the government with the forces ordering them around. It's only a matter of time before they beg those shinawatras back. 

In the mean time everyone should sit back and enjoy the show. 

Thailand will not let the shinawatras leave politics. 

Green for go . . . if, by 'dems', you mean so-called 'yellow-shirts' or ' the establishment', then, yes, I agree that they will soon feel the oppressive influence of the army 'forces', most notably in the upper chamber, having too much control over the way that the country can best pull itself back into respectability. And we know that Prayuth won't want to relinquish his 'total control'. PM or not, he'll be wanting to stick his oar in the water if anything gets his bottom lip a-quivering.

 

But Red means no . . . I can't see, the 'dems' or even former Phew Thai loyalists calling for a Shin comeback. Too much damage done and leopards can't change their spots and all that . . . Surely, amongst the massive PT ranks, better party leaders and a potential PM can be found.

 

As for enjoying the show . . . whatever turns you on. I think I'll be wincing in pain for a good chunk of the next 3 years.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Ossy
meaning

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

actually, the coup was probably hatched in the 80's. LOL

 Glad we now have consensus that coups were all planned to ensure democracy fail and the dominance of the establishment and the military. Good on you to finally see the light. 

[AGareth2]

9 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

actually, the coup was probably hatched in the 80's. LOL

2480?

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 Glad we now have consensus that coups were all planned to ensure democracy fail and the dominance of the establishment and the military. Good on you to finally see the light. 

Sad to see you don't see the light.

[sjaak327]

54 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

The PTP amnesty bill was attempted to be shoved through the house in an inappropriate manner.  No denying that.  Thus, it was squashed and some brought up on charges for it.  It was the cause for the protests, which caused the coup.  IMHO.

 

Even some in the PTP were against the amnesty:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/679962-why-the-amnesty-bill-has-caused-a-split-between-pheu-thai-and-the-red-shirts/

 

That does not matter one bit. that amnesty bill never made it through, and IF the claims from the protestors that it would be reintroduced after fresh elections was true, the bill would have had explicit electoral approval. of course the very same protestors broke the law by disruption the subsequent elections and to date have not taken to the street for an amnesty that did make it through and that is much more broad, as it even handles future crimes. 

 

This little fact shows one thing, it was not the amnesty as such, but the fact it seemingly benefitted the wrong people....

Edited October 2, 2017 by sjaak327

[craigt3365]

13 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

That does not matter one bit. that amnesty bill never made it through, and IF the claims from the protestors that it would be reintroduced after fresh elections was true, the bill would have had explicit electoral approval. of course the very same protestors broke the law by disruption the subsequent elections and to date have not taken to the street for an amnesty that did make it through and that is much more broad, as it even handles future crimes. 

 

This little fact shows one thing, it was not the amnesty as such, but the fact it seemingly benefitted the wrong people....

How do you know it would have had explicit approval?  Even some red shirts were against it.  The very same protesters did break the law.  Just like the protesters before them.  And the ones before them.  Etc, etc, etc.  It's been a vicious cycle...until now.

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

It's been a vicious cycle

 

Right, it has been a vicious cycle of coups since 1932. That's the only constant with years of coup government more than elected governments. You really slow with reality.

[sjaak327]

5 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

How do you know it would have had explicit approval?  Even some red shirts were against it.  The very same protesters did break the law.  Just like the protesters before them.  And the ones before them.  Etc, etc, etc.  It's been a vicious cycle...until now.

One would think that IF people would vote for a party that tries to introduce such a bill, they either approve or not disapprove enough to vote for one of the 40 something other parties, hardly rocket science. 

 

It is shocking to see you apparently think disrupting elections, mandated by the constitution is no big deal. in any case none of the previous demonstrators ever did that. Isn't it telling that Suthep first claimed to be the defender of the constitution, then after a week or so made a u-turn and not just demanded Yingluck resignation, but for power to be handed to him, so he could make 'reforms' ? 

 

In any normal democratic country, the protest would be stopped and Suthep would be taken to court. 

[greenchair]

33 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Green for go . . . if, by 'dems', you mean so-called 'yellow-shirts' or ' the establishment', then, yes, I agree that they will soon feel the oppressive influence of the army 'forces', most notably in the upper chamber, having too much control over the way that the country can best pull itself back into respectability. And we know that Prayuth won't want to relinquish his 'total control'. PM or not, he'll be wanting to stick his oar in the water if anything gets his bottom lip a-quivering.

 

But Red means no . . . I can't see, the 'dems' or even former Phew Thai loyalists calling for a Shin comeback. Too much damage done and leopards can't change their spots and all that . . . Surely, amongst the massive PT ranks, better party leaders and a potential PM can be found.

 

As for enjoying the show . . . whatever turns you on. I think I'll be wincing in pain for a good chunk of the next 3 years.

 

The best the dems can hope for is obviously a coalition with Prayut and his crew. At a guess, it might be 80/20 power share of prayuts committees with him at the helm taking most of the 80 and paltry 20 percent for the dems. Can they work with that? In the next few years I do expect a few dems to join the ranks of the exiled. 

I don't think anyone in the reds will have the courage to take the helm in any meaningful way. Most of them could not afford the billion baht consequences of helping the dems wiggle out of what they have got themselves into. 

The enjoy the show was obviously sarcasm, I am already wincing. 

Not knowing what the future of politics and policy will be, is extremely tiring. Most businesses are looking elsewhere. Though lately cambodia and myarma are having problems again, so that's a wee bonus for thailand. 

[craigt3365]

30 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

Right, it has been a vicious cycle of coups since 1932. That's the only constant with years of coup government more than elected governments. You really slow with reality.

The only constant has been an endless stream of corrupt politicians and government officials.  You are really slow with reality. LOL