Should the British Government be responsible for housing and feeding ex-pats returning from Thailand?

[anon789561]

7 minutes ago, colinneil said:

What a crazy suggestion, helping a drunk get over his depression, rubbish help his self thats what he should do.

Do not make excuses for people like him.

Depression i know about it, i got depressed after being told i would never walk again, what did i do?

I fought it, thats what, my wife and a few very good friends helped me, now i am stronger, more determined than ever.

I never went running for help, did it myself.

"i never went running for help"

there was no pun intended right? or was there? sorry colin

[hansnl]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

Given that this character is 41, and has spent the last 15 years in Thailand, he can't have paid little in the way of National Insurance contributions.

 

 

But, the Government pays out huge amounts of money to every so-called fugutive, mostly from islamic countries, that arrives in Britain.

Do why not help British Nationals?

[lvr181]

2 minutes ago, colinneil said:

What a crazy suggestion, helping a drunk get over his depression, rubbish help his self thats what he should do.

Do not make excuses for people like him.

Depression i know about it, i got depressed after being told i would never walk again, what did i do?

I fought it, thats what, my wife and a few very good friends helped me, now i am stronger, more determined than ever.

I never went running for help, did it myself.

 

You are a strong person and with the wonderful support of family and friends you dealt successfully with your disability (I have a friend who has also did that) and that I admire.

 

Unfortunately this individual is weak and is unable to deal with his problem. But why not offer him the 'official' support and discipline that he needs back in own country?

[Antonymous]

Would I want my tax money to go help:

 

a) A 41 year old good-for-nothing sponging alcoholic who is incapable of making good life choices or taking responsibility for his actions and who has been living a hedonistic lifestyle in Thailand for 15 years or;

A clean living man of the same age forced to leave his country or origin and everything he held dear in his life, who is willing to work hard and contribute to his new society.

 

Hmmm. Tough one. NOT.

 

Whether the guy is British or not, irrelevant to my answer.

[Thian]

1 hour ago, djayz said:

No! No government/country/tax payer should haul idiots back to their home countries.  Period! 

 

 

I would have agreed with you if the government didn't haul any people from abroad at all to give free housing/food and the rest.

They seem to prefer foreigners instead of real Britts which isn't fair imo.

[sandyf]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

He is probably not the best example

to highlight the argument as to whether ex pats should get helped more when they return because as many have said he has not only abused and refused help, he has made many choices. 

Were he a sober, older person who had contributed most of his life to the UK system and then needed to return, and was refused help for 3 months you start to see a potential two tier system compared with new immigrants and that's when the resentment kicks in. 

 

Exactly. When I lived in the UK I had an ex council house and the one next door still belonged to the council. At first I had a very good neighbour but she moved to look after her mother and a young couple moved in. They were only 17, which puzzled me a bit, unmarried and not working. The state provided them with a fairly good lifestyle, they had no intention of working and shortly had 2 children which improved their lifestyle no end.

Having paid 49 years of NIC and still paying income tax I do not think it unreasonable to expect similar benefits if I was ever to return to the UK.

As you say the idiots are another matter entirely.

[tonray]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

Exactly. When I lived in the UK I had an ex council house and the one next door still belonged to the council. At first I had a very good neighbour but she moved to look after her mother and a young couple moved in. They were only 17, which puzzled me a bit, unmarried and not working. The state provided them with a fairly good lifestyle, they had no intention of working and shortly had 2 children which improved their lifestyle no end.

Having paid 49 years of NIC and still paying income tax I do not think it unreasonable to expect similar benefits if I was ever to return to the UK.

As you say the idiots are another matter entirely.

Did they ask you to watch the kids when they went out on the town ? 

[tonray]

9 minutes ago, hansnl said:

But, the Government pays out huge amounts of money to every so-called fugutive, mostly from islamic countries, that arrives in Britain.

Do why not help British Nationals?

They should help nationals of course. and the reason they take muslim refugees is guilt because many are refugees because of failed policy and military actions in their origin countries.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

Another friend, Barry, told us “I think Mark has been badly treated, it’s not fair that asylum seekers get all the help but the British are forgotten. As a British man I think Mark should have been offered a council house and benefits, he has paid into the system, he had a job 20 years ago in the UK and he paid tax then. So he likes a drink and a cigarette, it’s not right he should stop the things he enjoys because he is forced to choose between alcohol and food trying to live on seventy quid a week, this country needs to wake up and take care of its own”

A three month wait for benefits is unfair when Muslim "refugees" are given benefits having no connection to the UK whatsoever. This one however has not taken personal responsibility for his life choices . In general I do not think addicts who refuse treatment should be given benefits whilst still having money for tobacco and booze.

 

How many Benson and Hedges Butts has he thrown on the ground?

Instead of the UK Taxpayer perhaps British American Tobacco plc should pay for his council house and dole so he can continue a lifestyle of full time drinking and smoking in peace. Surely not capable of work at the ripe age of 41!

Edited October 3, 2017 by ChiangMaiLightning2143

[BKKBrit]

Feckless comes to mind. 

 

[Kadilo]

There are so many examples of this guy around places like Pattaya who "run bars" which are hanging together on the basis of a fragile relationship with a Thai female. 

So many get sucked into the dream and see it as an easy way of staying in Thailand. Before you know it the bars struggling so they end up getting involved in other scams to make ends meet. 

I know a couple of Brits who could well end up like this guy anytime soon. 

 

[djayz]

12 minutes ago, Thian said:

 

I would have agreed with you if the government didn't haul any people from abroad at all to give free housing/food and the rest.

They seem to prefer foreigners instead of real Britts which isn't fair imo.

I don't believe in free housing, free food, etc. for ANYBODY. Local or foreign. 

The amount of money wasted year in, year out on supporting people is crazy!  

[Psimbo]

What I would like to see (not that affects me yet) is a change to the freeze on UK pensions. It doesn't happen in the Philippines and other countries so why should it happen here (yes- I know about the historical part to this)?

 

The then British Ambassador Asif Ahmad tried to address this during his tenure but was apparently very firmly put back in his box. No chance 'Twinkle Toes' would rock the boat- too busy making sure he is 'right on' with his husband/wife. 

 

For someone to reach pension age and then have their pension frozen is ridiculous. That person is far less a burden on the UK system by being abroad than residing in the UK. He or she has paid their National Insurance and there should be no difference to them residing in Spain, France, Croatia or Thailand. I know people who didn't get an increase for over 20 years. 

 

From what i understand the Japanese actually encourage their pensioners to go abroad without penalty as they appreciate the effect it has.

 

As for the original article- farkim. He has contributed nothing to the UK in the way of NI payents etc in his time away and would just be another benefit scrounger. Personally I would not class him as an 'Expat'- just an extremely long term tourist. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Psimbo

[Curmudgeon1]

2 hours ago, djayz said:

No! No government/country/tax payer should haul idiots back to their home countries.  Period! 

You paid for your flight here, you boozed and banged all your money away, you had a good time now rot in the gutter where you have landed. Sounds harsh, I know, but why should any adult expect others to bail him/her out? 

 You don't  sound very liberal?

[djayz]

4 minutes ago, Curmudgeon1 said:

 You don't  sound very liberal?

I am very liberal, but I'm more realistic than liberal. 

All of these people, ex-pats, refugees, the unemployed, etc. all hold their hands out - who's going to pay them? Why should I work an average of 40 hours a week and be taxed to the hilt to pay for them? Or the corrupt politicians "running" the countries in the West.

 

Here in Thailand, on a slightly lower hourly rate albeit, I only have 7% of my earnings deducted. When I worked in Europe, it was up to 46% in taxes, health care, pension, etc.!!! Simply ridiculous!

Edited October 3, 2017 by djayz

[gmac]

9 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

What I would like to see (not that affects me yet) is a change to the freeze on UK pensions. It doesn't happen in the Philippines and other countries so why should it happen here (yes- I know about the historical part to this)?

 

The then British Ambassador Asif Ahmad tried to address this during his tenure but was apparently very firmly put back in his box. No chance 'Twinkle Toes' would rock the boat- too busy making sure he is 'right on' with his husband/wife. 

 

For someone to reach pension age and then have their pension frozen is ridiculous. That person is far less a burden on the UK system by being abroad than residing in the UK. He or she has paid their National Insurance and there should be no difference to them residing in Spain, France, Croatia or Thailand. I know people who didn't get an increase for over 20 years. 

 

From what i understand the Japanese actually encourage their pensioners to go abroad without penalty as they appreciate the effect it has.

 

As for the original article- farkim. He has contributed nothing to the UK in the way of NI payents etc in his time away and would just be another benefit scrounger. Personally I would not class him as an 'Expat'- just an extremely long term tourist. 

Agree wholeheartedly with all your points.  The subject of this article deserves no help at all given his history and yet the Government has tried it's best.  

 

Long term expats in Thailand have seen their savings whittled away by low interest rates and a falling exchange rate, no increases to pensions exacerbates the problem so it is little wonder that some will eventually have to return to the Uk as they no longer meet the financial requirements to remain in Thailand.

 

It is these people that will genuinely deserve assistance and I hope when the time comes the UK Government will provide it.

[scotchonrocks]

Wrong choices have led to his demise. He is not the responsibility of anyone other than himself. He shifts the abuse of himself to others and they kick him out of their homes for relief. In the end he wants the whole population  to pay for his continuous spiral of decay by way of his citizenship. With citizenship comes responsibility and he has shown none so he is not the responsibility of anyone else, especially the taxpayer. Nothing is said about this man’s family other than his Thai wife who obviously saw the light and gave him the boot. The only hope for him is his family but chances are they worked him out and gave up too. Can you blame them?

 

Now he probably cannot afford a ticket back to Thailand which is probably just as well if he will give other expats a bad name.

 

This is the story of a loser. Let others who may fall into this trap take heed.

[Bill Miller]

A bit being said about the refugees/asylum seekers. Do they spend all of their benefits on booze and fags? If they are lucky enough to find employment, do they drink drive and crash the company vehicle in the first month or so?
Let us not be putting apples with oranges. The subject of the story is an alcoholic loser, who has yet to admit to his problem.
One commenter said something about he should be able to have a drink or a smoke. The problem is that he does not have A drink, but endless drinks until the money is gone. I too have had times of financial difficulty, at which I did NOT buy booze or tobacco. 
It is not the place of the government to provide all for those unwilling to make the effort on their own behalf. It is not right, IMO, to point the finger at refugees who have made tremendous efforts to change their circumstances from a daily confrontation with possible death, not of their own devising.

 

[djayz]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

As long a non UK citizens get treated the same no problem. BUt we know they get housed and fed! The UK should take care of it's own citizens ahead of others.

I am of the opinion that all adults should take care of themselves - irrespective of nationality. 

A good-for-nothing sod is a burden on the system. There are more than enough Brits milking the system. 

[Grusa]

2 hours ago, Jeremy50 said:

It's a pity we still don't have a penal colony we can just ship this kind of trash off to. 

It's a pity we no longer have a penal colony ........

[Ceruhe]

59 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

H.T.F. do people get the impression that they are ENTITLED to having a lifestyle that pays for their every need (and then some) without having to put ANY effort into it ?

I'ma go out on a limb here....growing up in a welfare state that enables that.

[djayz]

1 hour ago, inThailand said:

Would you rather have your tax dollars going to help a UK citizen like him or a refugee? Or neither? 

Neither. My hard earned dollars stay with me and my family and go into my son's university fund. 

[4MyEgo]

WOW, certainly a lot of angry old men on this forum in my opinion, without empathy we cannot forgive, and I not only forgive this poor old chappy, I feel so sorry for his condition, "alcoholism" which is a disease, and if you have had first hand experience watching your father and brother being overtaken by it, until death does them a favour, only then will you really understand the decease.

 

Yes this guy tried to live the dream here from an early age, you have to give him credit for that, after all, who wants to work till their OAP age, unfortunately, he made a few mistakes on the way and is now paying the awful price for it as everybody washes their hands of him, he made his bed, he lay in it, as the saying goes, but I am appualed by some of the comments here on TVF.

 

He purchased a bar, a very very very risky venture which we all know, I believe you poms have an old saying, i.e. "if you want to make a $1,000,000 in Thailand, buy a bar for $1.9 and sell it 6 months later for $1,000,000.

 

Someone made an uneducated comment, i.e. that he married a bar girl, shame on you, but I can understand that coming from an uneducated person, although I would assume if he was willing, once he was out of the bar scene with his (bar girl) wife and moved to the provinces of Thailand, away from the bar scene, and tried raising a family, for him would have been difficult as the alcoholism would have already taken over him, with much sadness to his wife and children, like I said before, this is a decease which very few survive from due to the lack of government support, yes of all the tax dollars they make from alcohol sales, they only invest a fraction into helping those who fall off the bandwagon, and many do fall off. As for buying land in Thailand, well at least his (bar girl) wife has something to fall back on for the kids, as it would have been in her name, hopefully he didn't get her to sell it and pee it up the wall as they say.

 

His friends did what they could for him lending him money, putting him up, and trying to assist, but all got burnt by his alcoholism in the end, this decease is something this poor chap cannot control, like a junky to heroin.

 

Regardless of what happened in his life, he is still a human being, and his mates helping him after all those years attribute to that, a British citizen, who lived abroad, regardless of whether he paid taxes in the last 15 years or not, he should be provided special help to get him back on his feet, i.e. put into an institution against his will, even in an induced coma at the start, then care until he is well enough to have go back into the community under supervision, and work to earn money to pay taxes to go back into the services that just put him back into the community, but unfortunately help is something that governments will only provide to those they feel will contribute back to the tax system and it would appear that they have weighed up the chances that an alcoholic has, i.e. limited chances to beat the decease which they, the government contributed to by way of collecting taxes from the sales of it, but contribute a fraction back into helping those who fall off the band wagon, perhaps a joint venture should be established by the government with its alcohol making partners, just a suggestion.

 

Personally I feel for this lost soul, he needs special care to get him back on the road to recovery, but I fear his life is worthless, because its easier to discard him and his decease, because society has become inhumane over the years, with most stopping to offer a stray dog a bite to eat rather than a drunken bum.

 

Irregardless of both my fathers and brothers passing to this decease, I have not allowed my anger to take over my empathy as is lacking by a lot here on TVF for this guy, but then again, each to their own, you can own it for as long as you want.

[mommysboy]

There are two strands that are being intertwined, namely, alcoholism and expats returning home.  So apart from the headline question we should also be asking: Should the UK government be responsible for feeding and housing alcoholics?

 

I personally believe that ex-pats returning home should receive the same benefits as any UK citizen, because from the moment they return with the intention of resettling they are ordinary UK citizens.  Further most will still be classed as UK taxpayers, some even paying tax on pensions, and I dare say a good many have paid a fair amount of tax over the decades.  Overwhelming, for me, is the fact that they are just British, whereas I feel that refugees, and economic migrants are foreign.  I would rather benefits go to our own.

 

Another issue arising from the article is the dire state of the UK benefits system, which is chronically underfunded or over used; I suspect the former is the real reason.  There is a corrosive inequality in wealth in the UK, as there is throughout most of the world, and it's high time the better off paid the tab for the economic crash they caused.

 

I wish the guy well, but can't help feeling he brings problems on himself, via the bottle.

 

 

[cyberfarang]

With only £70 pounds a week coming in from the Government Mark found he was unable to contribute to his friend’s household bills and food budget as he only had enough money for cigarettes and alcohol. Once again he was homeless.

 

Is this a joke?

[manchega]

As a citizen of any country you have what you want and what your country wants.  Your country wants your tax money.

That's it.  If you are not paying tax then the country is not interested.  So when you go to the embassy for help you will find none.  But you may be charged money for attempting to get that help.  Be that a call to a 24 hr line based somewhere else and charged at a premium rate.

As for should it? well as a tax payer I don't see why I should pay for you to travel or anything else.

 

I feel for those with these stories, but, its all an adventure, and it can keep on going

Edited October 3, 2017 by manchega

[theguyfromanotherforum]

If he says he'd be better off in Thailand I will start a gofundme campaign in his name and put hundred bucks for his one way ticket.

 

 

[mommysboy]

Just now, manchega said:

As a citizen of any country you have what you want and what your country wants.  Your country wants your tax money.

That's it.  If you are not paying tax then the country is not interested.  So when you go to the embassy for help you will find none.  But you may be charged money for attempting to get that help.  Be that a call to a 24 hr line based somewhere else and charged at a premium rate.

As for should it? well as a tax payer I don't see why I should pay for you to travel or anything else.

 

No, tax doesn't come in to it, although I agree that it probably should.

 

It's about residency.  As soon as an expat returns with the intention of settling, then he is classed as resident.

 

It's all very well you resenting what another does, but what about when another taxpayer resents what you do?

[Mickmouse1]

He doesn't deserve a H'penny!!!

He had the chance to pay his stamps which goes towards his pension but he elected to spend the money on birds n booze?

[manchega]

no resenting.  Just explaining the facts of embassy and government.

 

Personally I have no issue with it as I won't pay tax in uk.

 

so as for taxpayers they can resent my hole