SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[Khun Han]

19 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Was your first statement a Freudian slip or a play on words!

 

There are radicals in both groups, don't let it upset you.

 

I've always suspected the outcome of the Brexit vote was an attempt by the have-nots to damage the wealth of the have's, your statement about nannies supports that theory!

 

 

As far as I'm aware (from what he has explained about himself), George is far from being down to his last pennies, as am I. Why introduce such silliness into the debates?

[ilostmypassword]

39 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Firstly, it's not possible to form any kind of economic model until we have left the EU and trade deals with the rest of the world are officially underway.

 

Secondly, the leave vote was about sovereignty. With less sovereignty, as the EU mission unfolds, any predicted economic models from being within the EU can be radically altered by them with very little say so from the UK.

Because economic models aren't used to make predictions but only created to explain the past? Really?

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because economic models aren't used to make predictions but only created to explain the past? Really?

 

Where did I say that? Really?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Wife stopped play...

Edited November 7, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback
interupted...

[simoh1490]

53 minutes ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

It remains to be seen what will ultimately happen

But the Remoaner's constant rejection of a democratic vote is plain to see.

The sabotage being attempted is disgusting. Labour lost the election and the Lib-Dems were annihilated along with humiliation for the SNP don't forget.

The rich south east (London) champagne socialists want cheap labour and nannies for their kids. Selfish hipsters rule now?

No, democracy does.

 

Glass half full or half empty?

My glass is half full and looking for a top up soon.

 

 

 

 

I've got to come back to this post again but it also is historically typical of the approach taken to the argument by Brexiteers. You refer to Remoaners constant rejection of a democratic vote but you don't set out the detail, instead, you attack the group because they are seen as remainers and ignore the arguments they are putting forward. Nobody apart from the odd whacko wants to set aside the democratic vote just for the sake of it, they do so because they believe they have compelling arguments why it should be set aside. So instead of attacking the group because of their name, why not attack the arguments they are putting forward and if you are right and they are wrong, the group will fall away. My strongest suspicion though is that a majority of those arguments can't be successfully challenged by most people so instead, you attack the group as flying in the face of the democratic vote and attempting to deny the will of the people, which frankly is a cop out.

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I've got to come back to this post again but it also is historically typical of the approach taken to the argument by Brexiteers. You refer to Remoaners constant rejection of a democratic vote but you don't set out the detail, instead, you attack the group because they are seen as remainers and ignore the arguments they are putting forward. Nobody apart from the odd whacko wants to set aside the democratic vote just for the sake of it, they do so because they believe they have compelling arguments why it should be set aside. So instead of attacking the group because of their name, why not attack the arguments they are putting forward and if you are right and they are wrong, the group will fall away. My strongest suspicion though is that a majority of those arguments can't be successfully challenged by most people so instead, you attack the group as flying in the face of the democratic vote and attempting to deny the will of the people, which frankly is a cop out.

 

Remain doesn't have any arguments. It has speculation that keeps failing to come to fruition. Like I said, the boy who cried wolf.

[adammike]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remain doesn't have any arguments. It has speculation that keeps failing to come to fruition. Like I said, the boy who cried wolf.

Boris is a Priti Priti boy.

[ilostmypassword]

26 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Where did I say that? Really?

"Firstly, it's not possible to form any kind of economic model until we have left the EU and trade deals with the rest of the world are officially underway."

Clearly somebody hijacked your account.

[Khun Han]

Just now, adammike said:

Boris is a Priti Priti boy.

 

And this is connected to these brexit discussions in what way?

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"Firstly, it's not possible to form any kind of economic model until we have left the EU and trade deals with the rest of the world are officially underway."

Clearly somebody hijacked your account.

 

Huh? Let me expand. Economic models are based on using available information to make a prediction. It's not an exact science (ask Andy Haldane ), but it has it's uses. The less information that is available, the less chance there is of producing an accurate forecast for an economic model.

 

Now, how does this tally up with your putting words into my mouth about economic models only being able to look backward?

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remain doesn't have any arguments. It has speculation that keeps failing to come to fruition. Like I said, the boy who cried wolf.

Really, Remain has no arguments at all, really? Did you miss the parts about the economy shrinking and a further reduction in services, the Pound falling even further in value, a massive reduction in foreign direct investment, (aka bank and financial service which is already coming to fruition), government debt and borrowings that can't be easily and cheaply refinanced because the kindness of strangers has been withdrawn, surely you must have noticed some of those arguments....or perhaps not! 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Huh? Let me expand. Economic models are based on using available information to make a prediction. It's not an exact science (ask Andy Haldane ), but it has it's uses. The less information that is available, the less chance there is of producing an accurate forecast for an economic model.

 

Now, how does this tally up with your putting words into my mouth about economic models only being able to look backward?

But there is a huge amount of information on this very subject unless you believe that the pound is magic And Paul Krugman who got his Nobel Prize for modeling foreign trade has pointed out that the negative estimates of Brexit are overblown. He estimates that once it takes place, it would cut UK growth by about 1 point per year. And he's not alone in that. That's what most people who make that their specialty say. Of course, there are a range of predictions depending on how hard Brexit is. The harder it is, the worse for the UK.

Now back when there were some people who were predicting that Europe would crumble when it became clear that the UK wouldn't budge. Does that prediction sound familiar?

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Really, Remain has no arguments at all, really? Did you miss the parts about the economy shrinking and a further reduction in services, the Pound falling even further in value, a massive reduction in foreign direct investment, (aka bank and financial service which is already coming to fruition), government debt and borrowings that can't be easily and cheaply refinanced because the kindness of strangers has been withdrawn, surely you must have noticed some of those arguments....or perhaps not! 

You need to check some facts.

 

Predictions are not Fact.

 

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Really, Remain has no arguments at all, really? Did you miss the parts about the economy shrinking and a further reduction in services, the Pound falling even further in value, a massive reduction in foreign direct investment, (aka bank and financial service which is already coming to fruition), government debt and borrowings that can't be easily and cheaply refinanced because the kindness of strangers has been withdrawn, surely you must have noticed some of those arguments....or perhaps not! 

 

Yes, I missed all those things. Probably because the economy has expanded steadily since the referendum, Sterling has steadied and risen slightly, FDI (which isn't only bank and financial service investment -whoever told you that?) has been good right across the board, and the banks and financial industry are holding firm in London (with necessary outposts being set up in Europe to cope with the post-brexit scenario).

[simoh1490]

Just now, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You need to check some facts.

 

Predictions are not Fact.

 

 

1 minute ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

You need to check some facts.

 

Predictions are not Fact.

 

 

KH stated that,"Remain doesn't have any arguments", he didn't say remain doesn't have any [redictions and he didn't say remain doesn't have any facts for the future! Remain has put forward plenty of arguments and I've listed some of them in that post....are you having problems following this!

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, I missed all those things. Probably because the economy has expanded steadily since the referendum, Sterling has steadied and risen slightly, FDI (which isn't only bank and financial service investment -whoever told you that?) has been good right across the board, and the banks and financial industry are holding firm in London (with necessary outposts being set up in Europe to cope with the post-brexit scenario).

The EU economy is now expanding more rapidly than the UK economy.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, I missed all those things. Probably because the economy has expanded steadily since the referendum, Sterling has steadied and risen slightly, FDI (which isn't only bank and financial service investment -whoever told you that?) has been good right across the board, and the banks and financial industry are holding firm in London (with necessary outposts being set up in Europe to cope with the post-brexit scenario).

Now you're just making up your own version of the facts and/or cherry picking one single report out of a hundred. Here, read what the numbers are, sorry if you don't like the source but there's plenty more out there for you to chose from, they all say the same thing: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/oct/24/how-has-the-brexit-vote-affected-the-uk-economy-october-verdict

[simoh1490]

This debate with you guys is almost exactly the same as it was with SgtRock and others over a year ago, absolutely zero fact from you, zero projections, zero detail, just dogged persistence that UK sovereignty will be restored and everything else will be OK, it's absolutely barmy and a waste of my time. I'm going to go and do something far more productive and find some wet paint to watch and I'll check back later to see if you've actually posted anything constructive or useful.

[Khun Han]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

But there is a huge amount of information on this very subject unless you believe that the pound is magic And Paul Krugman who got his Nobel Prize for modeling foreign trade has pointed out that the negative estimates of Brexit are overblown. He estimates that once it takes place, it would cut UK growth by about 1 point per year. And he's not alone in that. That's what most people who make that their specialty say. Of course, there are a range of predictions depending on how hard Brexit is. The harder it is, the worse for the UK.

Now back when there were some people who were predicting that Europe would crumble when it became clear that the UK wouldn't budge. Does that prediction sound familiar?

 

Remainers and predictions.

 

Paul Krugman bases his economic model on the UK continuing to conduct most of it's trade with the EU post-brexit.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Khun Han

[Khun Han]

21 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"Details set out time and again" - please show us one copy of those details and leaflet, if they were set out so many times surely you must have a copy or a link?

 

And George, if you can't debate nicely in a civil manner, don't!

 

Back under a new user name, but the same old tricks of trying to get debating opponents into trouble with false accusations. Some people never learn.

 

And back on my ignore list.

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Back under a new user name, but the same old tricks of trying to get debating opponents into trouble with false accusations. Some people never learn.

 

And back on my ignore list.

Don't run away, present real arguments and proper challenges with substance and verifiable proof rather than attack posters or group names!

[adammike]

43 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And this is connected to these brexit discussions in what way?

Any way I want it to be.

[MaeJoMTB]

21 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

The EU economy is now expanding more rapidly than the UK economy.

How are the German and Italian banks doing?

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, adammike said:

Any way I want it to be.

 

 

I've had a few. I suspect you've had a few more.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

I've had a few. I suspect you've had a few more.

That explains much!

[Scott]

A rather nasty post and reply removed.   I note a few more, but I am more inclined to give warnings and suspensions.

 

Stay on topic.  

[ilostmypassword]

50 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Remainers and predictions.

 

Paul Krugman bases his economic model on the UK continuing to conduct most of it's trade with the EU post-brexit.

I really doubt that since the UK does not conduct most of its trade with the EU now.

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I really doubt that since the UK does not conduct most of its trade with the EU now.

 

Sorry, let me clarify. His model is based on the status quo (of which UK trade to the EU has fallen to 48% in the last year).

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, Khun Han said:

 

Sorry, let me clarify. His model is based on the status quo (of which UK trade to the EU has fallen to 48% in the last year).

Geography is something no amount of wishful thinking can overcome. Krugman posits that the UK will continue to have a plurality of its trade with the EU. But just less.

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

Geography is something no amount of wishful thinking can overcome. Krugman posits that the UK will continue to have a plurality of its trade with the EU. But just less.

 

And which is certain to be compensated by additional trade with non-EU countries. Does Krugman factor this into his model? Anyway, I hope you don't think I'm being ignorant, but I'm off to bed now. Back tomorrow.