Lifan GY200 ------> Honda CRF250L

[canthai55]

21 pages Lifan Cross and X-Cross - oops, wrong bike

This one only run 8 so far ...

 

[papa al]

Nine.

[AllanB]

Ok an update on the CRF, not quite 1,000km up, but all town riding so equal and approved. Will get it's first service this week at about 950km.

 

The bike is running better, torque is starting to show and the engine is less rough. I am giving it a few more revs than the Lifan and yes, it is okay/good, but not fantastic. Perhaps my hopes were too high after the Lifan, for 3 times the cash, I expected 3 times the bike. For Honda Wave money the Lifan GY200 is a great little bike and a lot of fun.

 

For the CRF250, things I need to change, two things immediately. The hand grips are not good for my Pat Jennings hands and I think I will need bar risers (up and back) too. Pretty sure that on a trip this will become apparent.

 

Gearing, I rode today at 95kph, as fast as I ever want to go and it would do that in 5th and at 80kph, which my comfortable max, 6th is a little too high, so me thinks a 45t rear will do the job. To be honest I wouldn't feel safe going too fast with the small tyre footprint afforded by the knobblies, on a dry road you can lock both of the brakes easily and hard cornering the tyres will surly get hot, not good for a soft off-road compound.

 

My seat mod seems to work, it ain't no easy rider, but not bad given what the bike is. With our two up touring, we ain't going to riding 500km a day.

 

With the cool weather, we are planning a road trip with my mate, if he and his Mrs are up to it. He has a 300 Forza, so chalk and Cheese from the CRF.

 

I am hoping for reliability now, 3 years of nothing except oil changes.

 

Meanwhile strip and reconfigure the Honda Shadow a little.

Edited December 11, 2017 by AllanB

[canthai55]

1 hour ago, AllanB said:

I am giving it a few more revs than the Lifan

Never have mine below 4000 RPM, and that only on the dead flat or downhill.

Never climb a grade of any sort below 4500-5000. Steep 5500 +

Smooth as silk. It is a big bore, 4 valve, short stroke engine and you will not get tractor-pulling torque from it.

 

[papa al]

can the knobbies

buy good DS/street tires

[Rhys]

Enjoy the bike..

 

[thaiguzzi]

20 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Never have mine below 4000 RPM, and that only on the dead flat or downhill.

Never climb a grade of any sort below 4500-5000. Steep 5500 +

Smooth as silk. It is a big bore, 4 valve, short stroke engine and you will not get tractor-pulling torque from it.

 

All the above.

And you forgot to mention flywheel or lack thereof.

= rev the tits off the things...

Saw a Ducati produced video a few months back on the Panigale 1299 v twin - engine design, internals and electronics etc. Impressive stuff for some - but not me. Ridiculous short stroke, ridiculous big bore, and the crank - the guy was waving this thing about with one hand looked like something out of a CB125. Zero flywheel or crank cheeks. Hence they rev up so quick - not my cup of tea. My cup of tea is strong torque straight off idle, not a redline in 5 figures, but then i'm a luddite...

My idea of crankshafts is HD, Brit bike, older 2V Ducati's and, even better a pre this century Guzzi crank with the flywheel attached (yeah even Guzzi's lighten their cranks these days - sigh). All of a job lifting one off a bench - proper.

[AllanB]

23 hours ago, papa al said:

can the knobbies

buy good DS/street tires

No, I like the off-road tyres not that interested in speed, so not a danger for me and besides I don't have money to splash out on what is a brand new bike.

 

The short stroke is shame, should have figured that as it is a CBR sports bike engine. No matter.

 

Need to get out and ride, when the family problems are sorted, everything is ready.

[AllanB]

Took the CRF off-road today, hitherto thought I was an off-road expert, obviously the easy-peasy Lifan made me look good, one or even two up.

 

Okay we were two up, probably not the best way to do a virgin ride, but yes had a couple of (small fart) twitches in some sandy stuff. So need to practice on this different machine.

 

Took to the loose stuff like a baby to the busom on the Lifan, using the engine's grunt to chug my way through the soft, rutted stuff, largely leaving clutch, brake and throttle alone. Child's play and good fun to boot, but can't do that on the Honda...at all, need very careful control of the throttle and clutch and even the rear brake. 

 

Got the first service done and the rough running was explained, pointing out the lack of Cush-drive", didn't spot that, thought it was standard.

 

My advice to anyone buying a CRF250L is to hire one for a day. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by AllanB

[taninthai]

From wiki,,,,obviously with the low power /torque engine it isn’t needed.....notning to do with or affect rough running,,,,,,why did you upgrade from the lifan if you was so obviously happy with it?.

since I opened up my engine casing and saw what the problem was with my clutch basket being loose my crf feels pretty smooth now.

 

A cush drive is a part of a motorcycle or scooter drive-train that is designed to reduce stress from engine torque damaging other components during gear or throttle changes. A common design used by almost all street motorcycles, it has three major pieces: the wheel, the sprocket assembly, and the rubber damper.

Edited December 13, 2017 by taninthai

[chrissables]

2 hours ago, AllanB said:

Took the CRF off-road today, hitherto thought I was an off-road expert, obviously the easy-peasy Lifan made me look good, one or even two up.

 

Okay we were two up, probably not the best way to do a virgin ride, but yes had a couple of (small fart) twitches in some sandy stuff. So need to practice on this different machine.

 

Took to the loose stuff like a baby to the busom on the Lifan, using the engine's grunt to chug my way through the soft, rutted stuff, largely leaving clutch, brake and throttle alone. Child's play and good fun to boot, but can't do that on the Honda...at all, need very careful control of the throttle and clutch and even the rear brake. 

 

Got the first service done and the rough running was explained, pointing out the lack of Cush-drive", didn't spot that, thought it was standard.

 

My advice to anyone buying a CRF250L is to hire one for a day. 

My first off road experience was similar. It goes against natural instinct to open the throttle and "plow" through the sand etc.

 

My first bike was a Honda XL125 and i never thought about it then, just went at like a bull at a gate.

 

Thinking of taking a day's lesson at a school  in Pattaya to build some confidence.

[AllanB]

6 hours ago, taninthai said:

From wiki,,,,obviously with the low power /torque engine it isn’t needed.....notning to do with or affect rough running,,,,,,why did you upgrade from the lifan if you was so obviously happy with it?.

since I opened up my engine casing and saw what the problem was with my clutch basket being loose my crf feels pretty smooth now.

 

A cush drive is a part of a motorcycle or scooter drive-train that is designed to reduce stress from engine torque damaging other components during gear or throttle changes. A common design used by almost all street motorcycles, it has three major pieces: the wheel, the sprocket assembly, and the rubber damper.

I know what a cush-drive is and am surprised Honda didn't install one, the B48k Lifan has one. Goes hand in hand of putting the wrong engine in the bike...Like I have said before these bikes are designed by bean counters.

 

Anyway not sure I fancy stripping down a brand new engine, but even less keen on letting a Thai mechanic loose on it. So now, if anything works loose it is likely to destroy the engine and I am into CB300 territory.

 

Such is the level of expertise here, that after the service I checked the glass level and it didn't register. He said the bike should have 1.4 litres, I said I wanted the level showing in the glass. So when I got home I checked the correct capacity, it is 1.8 litres, which coincides with the glass level, when using a spirit level. However, there is now oil on the driveway, so either he didn't clean properly, or the bike now has an oil leak, great!)

 

Me thinks I built my shed for all my bikes.

 

  

[canthai55]

your posts beg the question ...

What made you buy the CRF in the first place ? Because some girl rode around the world on one ?

Seems due diligence was entirely lacking on your part, as again it seems you are unhappy with the bike you bought. These bikes have been on the market since 2012, all issues well reported and fixes described in various forums.

 

[taninthai]

You do know the oil doesn’t show in the glass when bike on side stand???

 

done the oil inmine 2 days ago no way it takes 1.8 litre.if they changed filter aswell it takes a little more.

 

My bike is a 2012,and the only problems that arise is from letting rubbish mechanics work on it.

it has been proven by videos that you yourself have posted that these bikes are super reliable and capable of hassle free usage with minimum maintenance,,,but according to you Honda put the wrong engine in the bike??????silly Honda you would think they would know what there doing after building bikes all these years.

Edited December 14, 2017 by taninthai

[Neilly]

19 hours ago, taninthai said:

A cush drive is a part of a motorcycle or scooter drive-train that is designed to reduce stress from engine torque damaging other components during gear or throttle changes

Popular thinking is that's why they fitted the judder spring clutch set-up to the 250L instead of a cush-drive...smoothes things out for the noobs who aren't used to clutch control

[taninthai]

7 minutes ago, Neilly said:

Popular thinking is that's why they fitted the judder spring clutch set-up to the 250L instead of a cush-drive...smoothes things out for the noobs who aren't used to clutch control

Threw mine in the bin last week???

[AllanB]

"your posts beg the question ...

What made you buy the CRF in the first place ? Because some girl rode around the world on one ?" 160,000km trouble free, much of it off-road seemed to be a pretty good recommendation..no? Plus I read a lot of other stuff. My mistake was not hiring one first, that I will concede. Plus, I am not convinced that this is not actually a fault.

 

"My bike is a 2012,and the only problems that arise is from letting rubbish mechanics work on it.

it has been proven by videos that you yourself have posted that these bikes are super reliable and capable of hassle free usage with minimum maintenance,,,but according to you Honda put the wrong engine in the bike??????silly Honda you would think they would know what there doing after building bikes all these years."

 

This was a first service carried out by a Honda agent and I wanted the book stamped in case of a warranty issue. I would concede that this being LOS that it was a little naive of me, considering a warranty had any validity here.

 

I also thought this bike was all about reliability, that said hers was prepared by Honda specifically for her trip and not knocked out in a Thai factory.

 

My point about the bike having the wrong engine was relating to it's off-road ability. This engine was specifically designed for a sports bike, down to the last detail. In pure engineering terms, how can it possibly be the right engine? But then Honda is a commercial organisation and it is a competitive way of selling bikes. Honda are not the first to do this, as I explained before BMW did the same (even worse) when they bought Landrover.

 

The Honda on which the Lifan was based (copied) had an engine designed for purpose...That is presumably why the copied it.

 

"since I opened up my engine casing and saw what the problem was with my clutch basket being loose my crf feels pretty smooth now."

 

Could you be more specific Taninthai as this sounds like a good place to start?

 

 

[taninthai]

It not a engine designed for a sports bike at all ,,I don’t know where you get your info from ,the crf also isn’t designed as an off road bike.

according to a lot of info I have read mr Honda has overtightened a lot of the bolts at the factory.

when I was taking my engine casing of the bolts were not tight at all ,I straight away new that the casing had Been taken of before,boiught mine 2nd hand so presume a Thai has been inside the engine before me.

as I got to the clutch basket the 5 bolts where completely lose and this was causing the basket to grind into the side of the engine casing,,this is why my bike would not move backwards when in first gear with clutch in.

this is not going to be your problem as said from factory all nuts and bolts are super tight.

 

 

P.s I’m still laughing at your comment that the engine was SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR A SPORTS BIKE.

come on get serious it was designed for an entry level learner/beginner/commuter bike.

Edited December 14, 2017 by taninthai

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

It not a engine designed for a sports bike at all ,,I don’t know where you get your info from ,the crf also isn’t designed as an off road bike.

according to a lot of info I have read mr Honda has overtightened a lot of the bolts at the factory.

when I was taking my engine casing of the bolts were not tight at all ,I straight away new that the casing had Been taken of before,boiught mine 2nd hand so presume a Thai has been inside the engine before me.

as I got to the clutch basket the 5 bolts where completely lose and this was causing the basket to grind into the side of the engine casing,,this is why my bike would not move backwards when in first gear with clutch in.

this is not going to be your problem as said from factory all nuts and bolts are super tight.

 

 

P.s I’m still laughing at your comment that the engine was SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR A SPORTS BIKE.

come on get serious it was designed for an entry level learner/beginner/commuter bike.

Honda are competing with all the other manufactures to build the fastest sports bikes, they get sales from winning races, not from a bunch of yahoos riding their off road (or on road) for a laugh.

 

Logic would dictate that this 250cc engine was designed for the CBR since this very same basic engine is used in all forms of road racing.

 

The ones out of the factory for the proletariat are de-tuned for reliability and longevity and perhaps ease/cheapness of production. The race bikes are tuned for winning a few races against very tough competition.

 

With regards to stripping the engine, I assumed yours was a new bike, so thanks, but I think I will do my trip and see if things get worse. I will have the truck there and a mate with me, so we can plonk it on that to avoid any serious damage, or it may get better. Thanks again.

 

I will tell you what it feels like..my 400cc Honda Shadow when it is firing on one cylinder....except with plenty of power at the top end.

 

 

[canthai55]

No modern motorcycle manufacturer builds new model engines with the previously popular small bore long stroke design. Reason - time has moved on. Modern engines, with vastly improved rideability and reliability, all favor 4 valve cylinder heads equipped with dual overhead cams. Better fuel economy is one plus due to vastly enhanced engine breathing.

I leave Royal Enfield out of this definition of 'modern' as their current engines are copies of 1940's and 1950's designs. How their 650cc engines will turn out remains to be seen.

I had a Matchless 500cc thumper. Lots of low end torque. But you better know how to start it, and the vibration and fuel economy were terrible. Looked good - kind of like some Ladyboys do - all show on the outside, no go on the inside.

If what you are searching for is off idle torque, then a CRF - or any modern thumper - is not for you.

A change in your riding style - to suit what you now own - should resolve all the issues you have with yours.

[taninthai]

20 minutes ago, AllanB said:

Honda are competing with all the other manufactures to build the fastest sports bikes, they get sales from winning races, not from a bunch of yahoos riding their off road (or on road) for a laugh.

 

Logic would dictate that this 250cc engine was designed for the CBR since this very same basic engine is used in all forms of road racing.

 

The ones out of the factory for the proletariat are de-tuned for reliability and longevity and perhaps ease/cheapness of production. The race bikes are tuned for winning a few races against very tough competition.

 

With regards to stripping the engine, I assumed yours was a new bike, so thanks, but I think I will do my trip and see if things get worse. I will have the truck there and a mate with me, so we can plonk it on that to avoid any serious damage, or it may get better. Thanks again.

 

I will tell you what it feels like..my 400cc Honda Shadow when it is firing on one cylinder....except with plenty of power at the top end.

 

 

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you ,,,,because you don’t seem to listen or take on board what people tell you. I will just agree with you  that this engine  was SPECIFICALLY BUILT FOR SPORTS BIKES? just toavoid any more discussion on that point, I still think it’s hilarious ,and you may like to ask your self why Honda has stopped making the cbr600 rr(a proper sports bike)if as you say Honda are just competing to build the fastset sportbikes?

 

even an though I have repeatedly post many pictures of my bike over the years and informed you a few posts ago that mine is 2012....you then come out with a comment ....that you thought my bike was new,you have me pretty mystified.

Edited December 14, 2017 by taninthai

[AllanB]

6 minutes ago, taninthai said:

It’s difficult to have a discussion with you ,,,,because you don’t seem to listen or take on board what people tell you. I will just agree with you  that this engine  was SPECIFICALLY BUILT FOR SPORTS BIKES? just toavoid any more discussion on that point, I still think it’s hilarious ,and you may like to ask your self why Honda has stopped making the cbr600 rr(a proper sports bike)if as you say Honda are just competing to build the fastset sportbikes?

 

even an though I have repeatedly post many pictures of my bike over the years and informed you a few posts ago that mine is 2012....you then come out with a comment ....that you thought my bike was new,you have me pretty mystified.

So, you don't believe in the saying "win on Sunday, sell on Monday"?

 

If you do then why would you build an engine for any other purpose?

 

Now I am not a big following of motorcycle racing, but as far as I know there is a 250cc class. I found this extract and assume the same would apply to all classes and that is how they sell bikes. Am I wrong?

 

"Aug 10, 2015 - Honda won the 2013 and 2014 championship titles with that bike. "Aside from the pneumatic valves and the special transmission, this is the same bike," says Livio. The street version is also highly de-tuned, putting out as much as 159 horsepower in certain markets, while a MotoGP bike has in excess of 250 ...

 

 

 

 

[taninthai]

Yeah the race class came out after Honda released these 250cc beginner bikes???.that quote is talking about 1000cc bikes ???.

i give up caninthai has got it right , it’s riding style that is your problem,,,I also said this the very first day you bought the bike.

if you want torque go and buy the crf1000.  You would probably still find something to  complain about that.

 

yes I just bought a 2nd hand Yamaha scooter ,because some guy called Rossi rides them and everyone knows  he wins races.

Edited December 14, 2017 by taninthai

[Neilly]

13 minutes ago, AllanB said:

Now I am not a big following of motorcycle racing, but as far as I know there is a 250cc class. I found this extract and assume the same would apply to all classes and that is how they sell bikes. Am I wrong?

2010: Moto2 replaces the 250cc GP class. All engines are built for Moto2 by Honda and are four-stroke 600cc in-line four-cylinder producing ~125 bhp and rev up to 16000 rpm.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Prix_motorcycle_racing

[canthai55]

ECM is the brains of a modern motorcycle engines. Camshafts are the heart and lungs.

Take a basic 250cc single cylinder motorcycle engine, change the above components - you can change pistons to increase or decrease compression ratio - and you have a vastly different engine.

 

[Neilly]

26 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

and you have a vastly different engine.

 

Very true...and the CRF is geared diffenently (too tall for off road, but okay for asphalt tho)

 

But the stating point was just a (under powered) commuter bike...to quote wiki...

 

Quote

the CBR250R enters at the opposite end of the market, as a budget priced beginner or utility bike, practical and fuel efficient, but with limited sporting pretensions

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CBR250R/CBR300R

[taninthai]

Anyway look what I just got????

[canthai55]

Can't remember - did you run 17's before, or just got another set of wheels ?

[taninthai]

No just switched to Dunlop more road oriented tyres on my original wheels ,just wanted a spare set for off Road ,save keep swapping tyre over ,easier to just swap wheels,,,,,bargain I think at 5000 bht

Edited December 14, 2017 by taninthai

[canthai55]

Cool. Good price too. I look at Facebook CRF250L Chiang Mai. Lots of takeoff wheel sets for sale. Mine still in the garage - little nubs and all !