Leaking pipe question

[carlyai]

My 2" pipes were a bit small to fit into the 2" water valves, or the valve sections were too big, the result is a couple of water leaks at about 1 drop every 10 seconds.

 

I really don't want to remove all the section and tape the pipe and re glue if I can get away with it.

 

Can I shoot silicon or pipe glue into the leaking section; will it hold? Will silicon stay in chlorine and chemical water?

 

Suggestions please.

 

The pipes are under a bit of pressure connecting from the 2 HP pump motor through the filter, then to the pool returns.

 

The first pic is the joint of the leaking section, and the second pic. is the manifold I have to remove to fix it properly.

 

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[grollies]

You're going to have to re-make the joints I'm afraid Carl.

 

You absolutely sure the leak is from the blue pipe/fitting joint and not running down from the screwed joint?

[Crossy]

You could try standing it on end (joint face horizontal) and running some pipe cement into the joint, hopefully capillary action is your friend.

 

Worth a shot before pulling it apart.

[grollies]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

You could try standing it on end (joint face horizontal) and running some pipe cement into the joint, hopefully capillary action is your friend.

 

Worth a shot before pulling it apart.

Sorry Crossy but that won't work unless you pull a vacuum on the pipework.

Edited October 16, 2017 by grollies

[Crossy]

6 minutes ago, grollies said:

Sorry Crossy but that won't work.

I did say it was worth a shot It's a very minor leak.

 

Any particular reason why the glue won't get drawn in? (assuming the joint is thoroughly dried first)

 

Something which really irks me is when someone states "that won't work", "you can't do that", etc. etc. with absolutely zero indication as to exactly why.

 

[grollies]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

I did say it was worth a shot It's a very minor leak.

 

Any particular reason why the glue won't get drawn in? (assuming the joint is thoroughly dried first)

 

Something which really irks me is when someone states "that won't work", "you can't do that", etc. etc. with absolutely zero indication as to exactly why.

 

It's a pressurized system that's been full of water. Even if he drained the system the leaking joint would stay wet and there would be no capillary action.

 

Sorry to irk you. What really gets me is when someone suggests a solution that obviously won't work.

 

I did say he'd have to create a vacuum in the pipe.

 

1) To draw water out of the joint

 

2) To draw pipe glue in.

 

Cheers

[Crossy]

14 minutes ago, grollies said:

It's a pressurized system that's been full of water. Even if he drained the system the leaking joint would stay wet and there would be no capillary action.

True, but removing the affected manifold and leaving under a powerful heater (let's say the sun) for a while (days) should dry things out.

 

As I said, it's worth a shot and a lot easier than pulling the lot apart, in itself not an easy task without damaging the fittings. I have no problem getting the blue stuff apart, but those black (are they ABS?) fittings tend to go a bit "rubbery" when heated. If it fails to do the trick nothing lost other than a bit of glue and some time.

 

That said, a joint that drips could well be weak in other places and casts doubt on the technique used on the other joints too.

 

Of course, he could just leave it alone and hope it dries up (it won't), in-laws have a supply drip that has been seeping for years, they are still hoping it will stop.

 

EDIT A thought, cyano-acrylate (sp) (that's superglue) uses water as the catalyst, it's also very "runny", possible solution?

 

[xylophone]

From another piece of pipe just slightly larger than that one, cut off a piece about an inch thick or thereabouts so you have like a plastic ring.

 

Cut that so you can open it slightly and get it round the existing pipework. Before you actually apply it, have ready a piece of wire or something similar that you can wrap around it and twist together to act as a clamp.

 

Using the normal pipe glue with something like a small artist brush smother it round the bottom of the leaking pipe (thickly and even if it runs you can slide the plastic ring up against it which is even better) and quickly fit the plastic ring that you have cut around it, securing it hard up against the pipe and using the wire wrapped around it to tighten it.

 

For the wire you could use a piece of 2.5 mil copper electrical cable or something similar or even something more substantial.

 

This has worked in my apartment on several occasions, mostly where the pipework has been set in the wall and concreted over and there is limited space in which to do anything.

 

Give it a try, – – nothing to lose!

[grollies]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

True, but removing the affected manifold and leaving under a powerful heater (let's say the sun) for a while (days) should dry things out.

 

As I said, it's worth a shot and a lot easier than pulling the lot apart, in itself not an easy task without damaging the fittings. I have no problem getting the blue stuff apart, but those black (are they ABS?) fittings tend to go a bit "rubbery" when heated. If it fails to do the trick nothing lost other than a bit of glue and some time.

 

That said, a joint that drips could well be weak in other places.

 

Of course, he could just leave it alone and hope it dries up (it won't), in-laws have a supply drip that has been dripping for years, they are still hoping it will stop.

 

Sorry Crossy. Didn't mean to have a go. It's just that with 25 years experience pressure testing pipes once a joint, especially PE leaks,  the only sure way of curing a leak is to re-make the joint.

[Crossy]

Just now, grollies said:

Sorry Crossy. Didn't mean to have a go. It's just that with 25 years experience pressure testing pipes once a joint, especially PE leaks,  the only sure way of curing a leak is to re-make the joint.

Nah, no issues here Mate, I agree 100%.

 

It's just we have a relatively low-pressure system in a benign environment so the odd "bodge" can't hurt, we're not going to blow anything up.

 

[Pib]

You shouldn't intermix ABS fittings with blue PVC pipe (or vice versa)....different materials (although they feel identical)  with different glues for best results.  Supposedly when having to glue ABS and blue/white PVC pipe together you need to use a "transition glue" versus ABS or PVC only glue.    Blue PVC fittings exist which look just like the ABS fittings and you can use regular PVC glue in that case.  I too ran into "leaking" problems when using some ABS mx couplers with blue PVC pipe...ended up replacing them with regular PVC mx couplers.

[carlyai]

You're going to have to re-make the joints I'm afraid Carl.
 
You absolutely sure the leak is from the blue pipe/fitting joint and not running down from the screwed joint?

Hi Mark, afraid yes. Double checked that, but will check again tomorrow. The switch pipes were huge and the blue pipe did not fit snuggly but had movement, so I thought I put in a lot more extra glue, and some are Ok, but a couple not.

I was thinking of the extra glue or silicon as you can still see the space around the outside of the switch, between it and the blue pipe.

It was a long process to get all that manifold installed, and I don't really want to undo it.

If I really have to redo the couple that are leaking, leaving it till next year would be in my mind.

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[grollies]

9 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Hi Mark, afraid yes. Double checked that, but will check again tomorrow. The switch pipes were huge and the blue pipe did not fit snuggly but had movement, so I thought I put in a lot more extra glue, and some are Ok, but a couple not.

I was thinking of the extra glue or silicon as you can still see the space around the outside of the switch, between it and the blue pipe.

It was a long process to get all that manifold installed, and I don't really want to undo it.

If I really have to redo the couple that are leaking, leaving it till next year would be in my mind.

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I live with a few leaks in the pump room mate, no big deal.

[carlyai]

You shouldn't intermix ABS fittings with blue PVC pipe (or vice versa)....different materials (although they feel identical)  with different glues for best results.  Supposedly when having to glue ABS and blue/white PVC pipe together you need to use a "transition glue" versus ABS or PVC only glue.    Blue PVC fittings exist which look just like the ABS fittings and you can use regular PVC glue in that case.  I too ran into "leaking" problems when using some ABS mx couplers with blue PVC pipe...ended up replacing them with regular PVC mx couplers.

I wondered why fitting diameter of the switch was way bigger than the blue pipe, but thanks to these knowledgeable pool people these are the switches they sent me.
Can't trust anyone these days.
I have never seen the blue switched. Where do you get them in LOS?

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[Pib]

Just now, carlyai said:

I wondered why fitting diameter of the switch was way bigger than the blue pipe, but thanks to these knowledgeable pool people these are the switches they sent me.
Can't trust anyone these days.
I have never seen the blue switched. Where do you get them in LOS?

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Global House and Thai Watsuda hardware stores I visit here in Bangkok and Nakorn Pathom province usually have them since these type of hardware stories usually have a wider inventory of pumping/irrigation products. 

[carlyai]

Thanks for the suggestions.
Just another thought: the guy that runs the commercial pool in Kuchinari has had all sorts of problems from his "professional" installation.
He now used Dr Fix It, to repair his pool grout, and mixes it, dives down and places it under water, probably like "plug".
Would that work on PVC pipe fittings?

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[carlyai]

Global House and Thai Watsuda hardware stores I visit here in Bangkok and Nakorn Pathom province usually have them since these type of hardware stories usually have a wider inventory of pumping/irrigation products. 

Only seen the black ones at Global and not at ThaiWatsadu. Maybe they are in a different section. At global I only looked in the pool section.

 

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[Pib]

Just now, carlyai said:

Only seen the black ones at Global and not at ThaiWatsadu. Maybe the are in a different section. At global I only looked in the pool section.

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Different stores...different inventory....can vary by the area of Thailand you live in.   I didn't mention HomePro because HomePro stores here in Bangkok usually have a small inventory of piping/fitting products--HomePro now days is more for city slickers.

[BEVUP]

What grade pipe are you using, so if i was to guess 13.5 & if so you will have to refer to all of the above

The only part of a pool system that is really under pressure is between the pump & filter as all the rest is open ended

13.5 has a slightly larger OD thats why I ask & is better for under ground no matter under pressure or not

[carlyai]

I might try and force in some glue, then wrap the joint in the Isaan farmers secret fixitallleaks compound. Going to try all the suggestions, but no dismantle until next year. I know how a dismantle fixit goes.....more leaking joints than you started with.....though 2 leaking out of 13 is not too bad, but 2 too many. [emoji21]

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[weegee]

Carlyai....What is the exact outside measurement of the BLUE pipe....I have a couple of those Black Fittings left over in the shed. They may fit yours....send me the size and i will check, and gladly send you the ones i have left over...I got my fittings from Hong Kong...

[carlyai]

Different stores...different inventory....can vary by the area of Thailand you live in.   I didn't mention HomePro because HomePro stores here in Bangkok usually have a small inventory of piping/fitting products--HomePro now days is more for city slickers.

I agree, hopeless, I don't reckon they'll last long in the country.

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[BEVUP]

7 minutes ago, carlyai said:

I might try and force in some glue, then wrap the joint in the Isaan farmers secret fixitallleaks compound. Going to try all the suggestions, but no dismantle until next year. I know how a dismantle fixit goes.....more leaking joints than you started with.....though 2 leaking out of 13 is not too bad, but 2 too many.

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I think your carlyai, I would just put on the old surgical glove ( & not getting confused as there real purpose ) & force some glue in (like packing a wheel bearing ) & it may be ok, as it seems very minor at the moment (we know how a drip can lead to one having to stick their finger in )

[carlyai]

What grade pipe are you using, so if i was to guess 13.5 & if so you will have to refer to all of the above
The only part of a pool system that is really under pressure is between the pump & filter as all the rest is open ended
13.5 has a slightly larger OD thats why I ask & is better for under ground no matter under pressure or not

It's all 13.5, mostly bought for the underground, but used it only. Even in the 13.5, different manufacturers have different sizes. The ID is nearly the same, but the pipe thickness is different.
Originally the local town didn't have 13.5, so I bought from the regional centre 100 km away, then they got some at the nearest town, but the fittings are different. Like a 3 way fitting with the smaller pipe thickness is smaller than a 3 way fitting with the thicker pipe thickness. So in planning there is about a 2" difference in length when installing 5 or 6 3 way connectors.
Always use the same brand or make, but sometimes difficult in the outback.

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[carlyai]

Carlyai....What is the exact outside measurement of the BLUE pipe....I have a couple of those Black Fittings left over in the shed. They may fit yours....send me the size and i will check, and gladly send you the ones i have left over...I got my fittings from Hong Kong...

Hi thanks for the offer. You may need them in the future. I can get the small handle ones in Roiet about 100 km away. I'm not going to do anything drastic, like a dismantle till next year, as I've gotta do the fence next.
Thanks again.

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[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

A thought, cyano-acrylate (sp) (that's superglue) uses water as the catalyst, it's also very "runny", possible solution?

There is a problem with cyano-acrylate in as much as it does weaken over time when exposed to water.

 

Used to sell it as a sales engineer for Loctite and it wasn't recommended for wet situations.

[tolsti]

5 minutes ago, xylophone said:

There is a problem with cyano-acrylate in as much as it does weaken over time when exposed to water.

 

Used to sell it as a sales engineer for Loctite and it wasn't recommended for wet situations.

can you get Loctite over here?

[BEVUP]

26 minutes ago, tolsti said:

can you get Loctite over here?

Yes I got some from Tesco

Edited October 16, 2017 by BEVUP

[carlyai]

True, but removing the affected manifold and leaving under a powerful heater (let's say the sun) for a while (days) should dry things out.
 
As I said, it's worth a shot and a lot easier than pulling the lot apart, in itself not an easy task without damaging the fittings. I have no problem getting the blue stuff apart, but those black (are they ABS?) fittings tend to go a bit "rubbery" when heated. If it fails to do the trick nothing lost other than a bit of glue and some time.
 
That said, a joint that drips could well be weak in other places and casts doubt on the technique used on the other joints too.
 
Of course, he could just leave it alone and hope it dries up (it won't), in-laws have a supply drip that has been seeping for years, they are still hoping it will stop.
 
EDIT A thought, cyano-acrylate (sp) (that's superglue) uses water as the catalyst, it's also very "runny", possible solution?
 

Hi Crossy, I appreciate your help and suggestions. You recon I could squirt superglue into the joint with no problems effecting the joint?

There is a heap of space, and the pipe can be moved, before gluing, in the switch section. I remember at Global when I looked at similar switches and commented on the lose fit, the pipe guy said you use heaps of pipe glue...that's how it's done.

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[chickenslegs]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Thanks for the suggestions.
Just another thought: the guy that runs the commercial pool in Kuchinari has had all sorts of problems from his "professional" installation.
He now used Dr Fix It, to repair his pool grout, and mixes it, dives down and places it under water, probably like "plug".
Would that work on PVC pipe fittings?

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

If there is enough of a gap around the fitting, you could try 2-part epoxy repair putty. Roughen up the surfaces with grit paper first then squeeze into the gap and all around the join.

 

Loctite repair putty is in most hardware stores.