Briton jailed for touching man at Dubai bar - newspapers

[Get Real]

Sand, sand, sand and a bar, a hotel, and sand, sand, sand. Oh dear! Not wanna live and work there for all the money in the world.

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, mduras01 said:

Whether one likes it or not, it’s their country and their laws. Western self-entitlement has no voice outside its borders. 

 

Western self entitlement? Where do western borders start and end, pray tell? 

 

the guy was apparently apologizing for bumping into the Arab... (German of Jordanian decent.. with knowledge of Arabic law...refugee maybe.), which  ended with a friendly pat on the butt... how is that western entitlement?

 

Dubai puts itself out there as an international destination, for business and pleasure, and as such, should be more accepting of international mores and customs, allowing leniency for harmless incidents ( hell, is it even an incident?), especially those occurring in a crowded bar.

 

if they wish to play on the world stage, they need to be accepting of other world behavior... accepting of progress.... at days end, what really was this guy’s crime?....certainly not sexual assault... that’s absurd

 

A lot of actions are a learnt behavior.... learnt behaviors are virtually impossible to change ( hence the saying about a leopard not being able to change its spots)... alcohol will make one revert to learnt behaviors (on auto), and saying sorry with a friendly pat on the butt, is as far away from being a crime as I can imagine

 

Personally, dubai airport is as close as I allow myself to get to this madness, usually lacking rhythm and reason, and thankfully, those folk that I do deal with, within the airport, are almost exclusively foreigners ( certainly the polite ones)

Edited October 23, 2017 by farcanell

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

People always say, "The world is getting smaller..."

 

And indeed it is. Yet another place/country added to the growing number of places/countries in the world that I wouldn't want to go.

[Andaman Al]

18 hours ago, coulson said:

Everyone does that here, nothing to do with what I said in my post.

I don't !

 

 

This guy has been jailed for giving the middle finger by the sounds of it. It is an automatic 3 mth jail term in the UAE, so whilst the 'touching' the behind was the catalyst the jailable offence was the guy stupidly reacting and giving the middle finger. I think the German is a heartless <deleted> for calling the police and I hope that in a step up from touching his ass the <deleted> known as Karma comes and bites the German on the ass.

[richard_smith237]

This level of punishment is insane and surely violates human rights. 

 

We're not sure exactly what happened and of course, we should always follow the rules, regulations and culture of a host country. However, Dubai has pegged itself as a tourist friendly city and has been actively pulling in tourists for decades now, yet news such as this identifies a dichotomy in the ruling powers who clearly allow this draconian legal nonsense to go on yet are still wishing to attract the tourist. 

 

So what really happened - the Guy actually did grope, he did flash the finger, he did get angry ???? IF so, is that really worthy of 3 months in Prison - In any country? the penalties are harsh in the extreme, perhaps a fine would be sufficient when dealing the the issue with balance. 

 

And so what, who really cares if they get their arsed touched by a girl or a guy... its annoying but its hardly a sexual assault, its not really a significant issue. I for one would never do that to someone else, but its happened to me numerous times - it really isn't a major issue. 

 

Alternatively, perhaps the guys story is true. He just wanted to prevent someone from knocking his drink over so placed out a hand to prevent this, which in turn lead to an incorrect accusation and an escalation  / argument.

 

This lad has already been punished significantly, perhaps unfairly so, perhaps unjustly so when even if accusation are true a fine would be more than sufficient to handle such issues. 

 

[ChouDoufu]

well, he was german...

 

see:  Beleidigunggesetz

 

Paragraph 185, Section 14 of the criminal code:  An insult shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding one year or a fine and if the insult is committed by means of an assault with imprisonment not exceeding two years.”

 

ass grabbing might could be considered assault.

 

not accidental as claimed. reported in the linked

article on page one " “He was passing near the other man and accidentally touched his arm then immediately apologised and he patted him on his behind in a gesture that meant he was sorry,” said the witness.

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by ChouDoufu

[MyFriend You]

17 hours ago, alex8912 said:

We will probably never know the whole true story but I wonder what would happen if a young guy put his hands on an older guys butt in a straight bar in Glasgow and when confronted gave him the middle finger? I'm not from there so maybe someone else knows. 

He'd pbly get his ass kicked, those miners don't <deleted> around.

[jenny2017]

4 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

The incident took placed at a bar in the Barsha Heights district on July 15.

The victim, who is of Jordanian descent, told Dubai Criminal Court that when he questioned Harron about touching his behind, the accused flashed his middle finger.

“I didn't say anything nor did I scream or insult him. I just called police, who arrested him,” said the 49-year-old manager, who had not met the accused before.

 

 More here:

 

   https://www.thenational.ae/uae/courts/scottish-tourist-jailed-for-drunkenly-touching-man-in-dubai-bar-1.669245

My apologies to the Mods. Sorry, didn't know hat.

[bendejo]

Terrible, terrible, terrible.

An insult to the culture, we all know that NOTHING OF THIS SORT ever happens anywhere in the Arab world.  Ask any boy....

 

 

 

[car720]

4 hours ago, coulson said:

Not the case, almost everywhere outside the middle east is tolerant of minor acts that may cause distress to members of the public, and are not punishable by imprisonment.

 

Examples: 

 

Public display of affection.

Dress code.

Taking photographs of other people without their permission.

Being intoxicated (not disorderly).

Using profanity.

Dancing or playing loud music.

 

Fair comment.  What I was trying to say though was that if you grab someones butt in most countries you will face the consequences.

[car720]

1 hour ago, thurien said:

 

the "German" is a disguised Jordanian moron (see post #9)

I saw it but the subject is still referred to as a German so that is what I called him.

[mduras01]

Western self entitlement? Where do western borders start and end, pray tell? 
 
the guy was apparently apologizing for bumping into the Arab... (German of Jordanian decent.. with knowledge of Arabic law...refugee maybe.), which  ended with a friendly pat on the butt... how is that western entitlement?
 
Dubai puts itself out there as an international destination, for business and pleasure, and as such, should be more accepting of international mores and customs, allowing leniency for harmless incidents ( hell, is it even an incident?), especially those occurring in a crowded bar.
 
if they wish to play on the world stage, they need to be accepting of other world behavior... accepting of progress.... at days end, what really was this guy’s crime?....certainly not sexual assault... that’s absurd
 
A lot of actions are a learnt behavior.... learnt behaviors are virtually impossible to change ( hence the saying about a leopard not being able to change its spots)... alcohol will make one revert to learnt behaviors (on auto), and saying sorry with a friendly pat on the butt, is as far away from being a crime as I can imagine
 
Personally, dubai airport is as close as I allow myself to get to this madness, usually lacking rhythm and reason, and thankfully, those folk that I do deal with, within the airport, are almost exclusively foreigners ( certainly the polite ones)

Maybe I misread, but I thought I’d read the Briton gave him the finger


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[farcanell]

“He was passing near the other man and accidentally touched his arm then immediately apologised and he patted him on his behind in a gesture that meant he was sorry,” said the witness. (from link) and this has been acknowledged

 

this is what he has been jailed for.

 

flicking the bird is still a he said he said issue. Denied by the accused. This is a bitch fight I would expect from a little girl, not a man. ( but again, an Arab with a German passport)... What is the world coming too? “Man up!” Springs to mind.... vs wah wah wah, he hurt my feelings, wah wah wah

 

and if it’s really that bad, to stop the spread of such depraved behavior, offended countries should shut down the internet and TV... after all, who can forget tom cruise flicking the bird, whilst inverted, in “top gun” (lol... great scene)

 

regardless.... still nothing to do with any form of perceived western self entitlement.... just a norm (albeit rude) for many, with very little meaning these days, perhaps unlike its first recorded use, some 2500 years ago, in a time when their was no western culture to blame for things

 

you all have a voice... I suggest that it be raised against injustice, wherever in the world you may find it, vs advocating retention of outdated and superfluous laws, like ( perhaps) disallowing women to be unescorted in public, or flipping the bird to a stranger in a bar.... who probably got the alleged bird, because he would not graciously accept the proffered apology origionally given... so he probably deserved it... if it can be proved that that actually happened

[Skeptic7]

7 hours ago, coulson said:

Not the case, almost everywhere outside the middle east is tolerant of minor acts that may cause distress to members of the public, and are not punishable by imprisonment.

 

Examples: 

 

Public display of affection.

Dress code.

Taking photographs of other people without their permission.

Being intoxicated (not disorderly).

Using profanity.

Dancing or playing loud music.

 

Precisely...and the UAE is also one of 13 countries where the penalty for being an atheist is DEATH! No touching or drinking needed. Simply not believing in a ridiculous superstition can put a person in really deep shit...or worse!  

[jenny2017]

4 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

He'd pbly get his ass kicked, those miners don't F around.

 

  I assume it ain't much different to other prisons and they might rape him for touching another. Arabs are well known for their deep love to animals.And an animalic behaviour is given to them by birth. 

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

Arabs are well known for their deep love to animals.And an animalic behaviour is given to them by birth. 

??? 

[farcanell]

8 hours ago, alanrchase said:

He knew what he signed up for.

I call BS on that

 

a two day stop over on the way to the stan.... time to party in a progresive bar for foreigners (locals aren’t supposed to imbide), and he acts like a polite foreigner in a foreigners bar

 

if a finger was involved, I’m sure that the reason for this has been obscured (covered up... not reported) but that’s not what he’s been jailed for as its unproven... heresay at best, otherwise surely a reference to cctv would have been made to substantiate the claim, denied by the accused.

 

according to some, wearing a short skirt, means a girl is asking to be raped. Is that what she signed up for ? (as it’s a more common occurrence than the one described in this OP)

[Thailand]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-41722204

[Thailand]

He has been exonerated, has his passport back and is leaving Dubai, common sense has prevailed, up to a point.

[jenny2017]

10 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

From what i have read ,it seems it was not just a touch to fend someone off while he was carrying a drink , i doubt we will ever know the real story , but i assume that the guy is gay ,and offence was taken that he put his hand on the other guys bum ,

 

 It seems to be the "stinky finger" and nothing else. Here's an article where Jamil Ahmed Mukadam, 23, from Leicester ( a typical British name these days..), could be sentenced to six months under the emirate’s strict laws. What happened isn't worth to mention under normal circumstances, but:

 

  A British IT consultant is stuck in Dubai facing a charge of offensive behaviour after sticking his finger up to a driver while on holiday in the oil-rich state.

 

 Please read with your own eyes and be aware that there are a lot more similar stories, when you "Google": certain keywords. Ridiculous. No sexual "assault", six months seem to be the norm there. 

 

I understand that people make good business there, but it's time to boycott his place. 

 

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/21/briton-could-face-dubai-jail-term-for-finger-gesture

Edited October 23, 2017 by jenny2017

[bendejo]

8 hours ago, car720 said:

Fair comment.  What I was trying to say though was that if you grab someones butt in most countries you will face the consequences.

...or make a new friend 

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

A handful of my friends regularly go to Dubai for a holiday.

Some have said to me in the past "you should try Dubai, it's amazing!"

 

I would never spend my hard earned money holidaying in a place that has laws restricting the most enjoyable things in life. And I certainly wouldn't work / live in one of those places.

 

Jamie Harron took a different view, and has suffered for it. I struggle to sympathise. 

 

 

[jenny2017]

13 hours ago, coulson said:

Not the case, almost everywhere outside the middle east is tolerant of minor acts that may cause distress to members of the public, and are not punishable by imprisonment.

 

Examples: 

 

Public display of affection.

Dress code.

Taking photographs of other people without their permission.

Being intoxicated (not disorderly).

Using profanity.

Dancing or playing loud music.

 

DON’T

Be Affectionate in Public

Another thing that can deter people from visiting the U.A.E. are their strict public affection laws. Homosexuality is illegal, and public displays of affection are considered a strong offense to public decency. Holding hands in public is the furthest that public affection can go, and even then it should only be between married couples. I did see a local couple (presumably married) holding hands while they walked down a street at night, but that was the most PDA I saw the whole time.

 

 

 A good friend of mine was there and she' sent me this advice.. She said that Dubai would be much better and more relaxed than other Arab countries. How does Mr. T. survive there? 

 

1.Photograph Locals Without Permission

This should go without saying, but don’t take a picture of a local without their permission. Nobody wants to have his or her space invaded or have a camera thrust in their face. If you want to take a picture of someone, do it from far away enough that it looks like you’re taking a picture of something else. If you want to take a picture of someone, ask for permission. There’s no guarantee they’ll say yes, but at least you’ll be polite about it.

 

2. Take Pictures of Government Buildings

If it looks like a really important and official building, just don’t take a picture of it. For the Emirates, they could consider your photo to be an issue of national security and I really don’t think you want to end up in trouble with the law.

 

3.Be Drunk in Public

Some countries don’t care at all if you’re drunk in public, but the U.A.E. is not one of them. In fact, only certain four and five star hotels and restaurants will even sell alcohol. Go there if you’re fancying a drink (or seven) but just be careful of your behavior. Whatever you do, DON’T drive drunk because it can get you thrown in jail, regardless of your BAC.

 

4.Men touching men could bring you straight to prison and showing your middle finger, even "when you only take something out of your nose", could get you in huge problems. 

 

 Its truly amazing that only married couples are allowed to hold hands. Nope, that's not for me.

Edited October 23, 2017 by jenny2017

[bendejo]

11 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

"you should try Dubai, it's amazing!"

Yes, amazing! fantastic! unbelievable!  Words that suggest an extreme, but don't really say anything.

You should have heard my megalomaniac ex-wife, she would come out with some amazing stuff when talking about herself.

 

There was a case a few years back where a foreigner (I think he was a Japanese man on a business trip) was scanned at the airport and on the sole of his shoe they found a spec of an illicit substance, the size of a grain of sand.  I don't recall which country, but I know it was one of the gulf states (I tried to search for it but no luck).  This was in the 00's and the case went on for a long time, with him sitting in prison, it would be mentioned in the news every so often.  Makes for great tourism promotion, no?

 

 

[CG1 Blue]

13 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Yes, amazing! fantastic! unbelievable!  Words that suggest an extreme, but don't really say anything.

You should have heard my megalomaniac ex-wife, she would come out with some amazing stuff when talking about herself.

 

There was a case a few years back where a foreigner (I think he was a Japanese man on a business trip) was scanned at the airport and on the sole of his shoe they found a spec of an illicit substance, the size of a grain of sand.  I don't recall which country, but I know it was one of the gulf states (I tried to search for it but no luck).  This was in the 00's and the case went on for a long time, with him sitting in prison, it would be mentioned in the news every so often.  Makes for great tourism promotion, no?

 

 

And then you have a UK charity organisation advising women not to report being raped in Dubai, because the woman is likely to be arrested for extramarital sex.

 

You can't beat experiencing different cultures...

[jenny2017]

I really feel sorry for the poor guy and what they're now doing to him is inhuman. Nobody knows if he's gay, but the press has already found him guilty. 

 

His story made the news worldwide and my blood starts boiling. 

 

  And facing a three year jail sentence is more than a man in his situation will comprehent now. He's lost his job, people make jokes about him and he's got to fight with a system that doesn't give him any rights. Is Amnesty International still active?  

 

. Even after the businessman has dropped his complaint, the prosecutors are proceeding with the case. Not that all that bs would be enough, they also sentenced him to 30 days in prison and was ordered to be deported for drinking alcohol and the "rude gesture", the middle finger?

 

Even when he's not in custody now, it must be strange to trust the lawyers, whose only goal is to make money. Do they really care about a Scottish guy?

 

These Arabs are in no way better than the KLU KLUX Klan. I have a job offer from Dubai, but after this incident, I'd rather like to work on the moon for nil pay. 

 

Let's hope that he's very soon a free man. 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited October 23, 2017 by jenny2017

[Scott]

Its usually not the 'touch' that gets you into trouble, but the squeeze.

 

[jenny2017]

11 minutes ago, Scott said:

Its usually not the 'touch' that gets you into trouble, but the squeeze.

 

I know that it's an American slang word. But isn't it the word for the passive part in a gay relationship? Please elaborate. 

[Scott]

I am being facetious.   If you accidentally touch someone's rear end, you might get by with it; give it a little squeeze and you might be pleasantly surprised, or very disappointed.  

 

I doubt with this guy it was an accidental touch.  

 

[Stargeezr]

Dubai , way too expensive and yes overrated as well. Not to mention, too hot as well. I would like to see their airport though with the largest terminal and tallest control tower, longest runway, etc.

Geezer