About those retirement visas mills

[bttao]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

You make an attestation at the US Embassy (or consulate, or one of the outreaches) and your attestation is dated and witnessed. Each year, when you do your extension of stay, you must present an attestation no older than 6-months old. The official can demand further documents, but in practice they rarely do. There is no need for any deposits into a Thai bank. Apart from at the time of your extension of stay, you will not be queried about your income.

Thanks .

So then you don't need a Thai Bank account or deposit any monthly amount anywhere ?

I would rather live on  free ATM withdrawals (SCHWAB Bank) indefinitely than deal with a Thai bank.

What does the US Consulate require to deliver the "Attestation": A retirement System monthly/yearly document / W "R" Tax form?

Finally how do you get the "Attestation" dated and witnessed? at the consulate?

 

(sorry I haven't been  to Thailand yet... so I am kind of lost here)

Edited November 2, 2017 by bttao

[KittenKong]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes but there are some countries that at least lower the financial requirements if you own housing. That makes sense too.

 

It does, but the amount required in Thailand is already at the low end of the scale as far as I know. Married people of course only need to deposit half that amount.

[KittenKong]

19 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Or how about read this and many other threads, or other sites, or drive around Pattaya and see the many obvious advertisements.  God, I was in the toilet the other day and Ads posted above the urinal about this topic, other Visa's, drivers license, etc.

All said do nothing just PAY!

 

 

People in Thailand (of all skin colours) are amongst the most avaricious I have encountered anywhere on the planet. Money seems frequently to be both their only interest and their answer to everything. And the more they have the more they seem to be obsessed by it.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, bttao said:

So then you don't need a Thai Bank account or deposit any monthly amount anywhere ?

I would rather live on  free ATM withdrawals (SCHWAB Bank) indefinitely than deal with a Thai bank.

As BritTim stated, Immigration could ask for further documentation of proof of income.

SCHWAB may offer free ATM withdrawals, but the exchange rate you receive is set by Visa, not SCHWAB. Around 0.25% lower than forex exchange rates, which is still excellent.

 

2 hours ago, bttao said:

What does the US Consulate require to deliver the "Attestation": A retirement System monthly/yearly document / W "R" Tax form?

Finally how do you get the "Attestation" dated and witnessed? at the consulate?

You can download an affidavit form from here;

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/income-affidavit/ 

No proof of income required.

Make an appointment to have your affidavit notarised here;

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

[notamember]

my best friend is a visa agent

its unbelievable how far you guys are wide of the mark with wild speculations about the process

don't ask for details, i won't answer , i use him too.....

 

[KittenKong]

31 minutes ago, notamember said:

don't ask for details, i won't answer

 

You should stand for the "helpful poster of the year award".

[bttao]

37 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

As BritTim stated, Immigration could ask for further documentation of proof of income.

SCHWAB may offer free ATM withdrawals, but the exchange rate you receive is set by Visa, not SCHWAB. Around 0.25% lower than forex exchange rates, which is still excellent.

 

You can download an affidavit form from here;

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/income-affidavit/ 

No proof of income required.

Make an appointment to have your affidavit notarised here;

https://th.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/notaries-public/

Thanks  Tanoshi... I got a better idea now of what is involved...

 

The US embassy cost $100 for the affidavit + notaries  ( I read somewhere that Thai banks also charge a  hefty Fee to get a bank statement for immigration)... every year!

I guess there isn't any other choice.

For the ATM , my Credit Union told me a few weeks ago that Visa charges a 1%  commission for any Foreign withdrawal ... since both Credit Union and SCHWAB bank Debit/ATM card are from Visa,  there is no way around it... unless  we carry cash instead, which could be a costly mistake if lost.

[overherebc]

So, a person who is retired on say UK pension gets at the moment 27,000 ( rough figure ) to rent a place, buy food, pay water and electric, monthly.

In all probability they won't be able to get health insurance at a reasonable price.

20,000 to an agent gets them an extension then one day they fall downstairs and break a leg and can't afford good treatment.

At least with 65,000 a month or 800,000 in the bank ( or the combined method ) they can get things sorted without too much hassle.

As in all things, life is wonderful until it goes wrong.

[Jingthing]

57 minutes ago, notamember said:

my best friend is a visa agent

its unbelievable how far you guys are wide of the mark with wild speculations about the process

don't ask for details, i won't answer , i use him too.....

 

Then that's kind of a worthless taunting NO INFORMATION post then, isn't it?

You tell people they are wrong, and then won't tell us in what way.

Anyway, I've never used such services and hope I'm never desperate enough to NEED to use a service that doesn't actually require my funds legitimately seasoned (for bank method) but the information I got was from a person doing that business for several years. 

[notamember]

24 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

You should stand for the "helpful poster of the year award".

Kitten Kong, i will tell you that in my original post i was going to give you credit for being the closest to the mark in one of your responses to the thread

 

[notamember]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Then that's kind of a worthless taunting NO INFORMATION post then, isn't it?

You tell people they are wrong, and then won't tell us in what way.

Anyway, I've never used such services and hope I'm never desperate enough to NEED to use a service that doesn't actually require my funds legitimately seasoned (for bank method) but the information I got was from a person doing that business for several years. 

not intended as a taunting, sorry you feel that way

seems you are taunting me, you will be happy its worked , 

desperate? my friend has a client with a 33 million baht house for sale, millions in Singapore and simply uses his 800,000 baht to process his renewal rather than import the money

Many other of his clients use his service to sidestep keeping their 800,000 baht nailed down for 3 months

you guys are over thinking the whole thing .

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, notamember said:

my best friend is a visa agent

its unbelievable how far you guys are wide of the mark with wild speculations about the process

don't ask for details, i won't answer , i use him too.....

 

Not very helpful...anyone can make this kind of claim, as long as one doesn't provide facts.

Anyway, I don't see wild speculations in the posts above.

The system is quite straightforward: go to an agent and /or an IO, go with him to the bank for the most important part of the deal, pay him, provide minimal documentation and wait one day or two...then go get your newly stamped passport.

 

[KittenKong]

14 minutes ago, notamember said:

Kitten Kong, i will tell you that in my original post i was going to give you credit for being the closest to the mark in one of your responses to the thread

 

Very kind of you, I'm sure.

 

But if you make a daft comment like "don't ask for details, i won't answer" then you should expect to get some sarcastic remarks in return.

[Brunolem]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Then that's kind of a worthless taunting NO INFORMATION post then, isn't it?

You tell people they are wrong, and then won't tell us in what way.

Anyway, I've never used such services and hope I'm never desperate enough to NEED to use a service that doesn't actually require my funds legitimately seasoned (for bank method) but the information I got was from a person doing that business for several years. 

Desperation has nothing to do with that.

A friend of mine who owns 3 condos in Thailand uses this system because he doesn't keep 800,000 baht (almost the price of a small studio) sleeping on a bank account.

On top of that, for long term residents with no Thai family members (wife, kids), there are not many options...I mean except for those who can afford to keep 800,000 baht in cash year after year...

[notamember]

6 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

Very kind of you, I'm sure.

 

But if you make a daft comment like "don't ask for details, i won't answer" then you should expect to get some sarcastic remarks in return.

i did, unfriendliness is commonplace on here and thats why i lurk more than post

 

Enjoy your pontifications, i am out of here with a wry smile ..

[KittenKong]

30 minutes ago, overherebc said:

So, a person who is retired on say UK pension gets at the moment 27,000 ( rough figure ) to rent a place, buy food, pay water and electric, monthly.

In all probability they won't be able to get health insurance at a reasonable price.

20,000 to an agent gets them an extension then one day they fall downstairs and break a leg and can't afford good treatment.

 

I know several people who live here entirely on their UK state pension. I also know some who have small extra pensions or income to supplement that. None of them has enough savings anywhere to deposit 800kB. It's true that all of them would have trouble paying any sort of major hospital bill, and that none of them could afford health insurance due to their age. Most of them would attempt to return to the UK in case of urgent need, if they are still mobile enough. But more importantly many of them have nothing to go back there for so they hope to live here in health for as long as they can and then die quickly when the time comes.

 

If they went back to the UK now they would be miserable but well cared for in case of ill-heath, and what's the point of that?

[notamember]

20 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Not very helpful...anyone can make this kind of claim, as long as one doesn't provide facts.

Anyway, I don't see wild speculations in the posts above.

The system is quite straightforward: go to an agent and /or an IO, go with him to the bank for the most important part of the deal, pay him, provide minimal documentation and wait one day or two...then go get your newly stamped passport.

 

Brunoleum you are the epitome of wild speculation by saying thats the way it happens,

its not even close to the truth, you are years and years out of date

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, notamember said:

not intended as a taunting, sorry you feel that way

seems you are taunting me, you will be happy its worked , 

desperate? my friend has a client with a 33 million baht house for sale, millions in Singapore and simply uses his 800,000 baht to process his renewal rather than import the money

Many other of his clients use his service to sidestep keeping their 800,000 baht nailed down for 3 months

you guys are over thinking the whole thing .

Yeah, sure. We're overthinking using a corrupt service. 

[overherebc]

50 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

I know several people who live here entirely on their UK state pension. I also know some who have small extra pensions or income to supplement that. None of them has enough savings anywhere to deposit 800kB. It's true that all of them would have trouble paying any sort of major hospital bill, and that none of them could afford health insurance due to their age. Most of them would attempt to return to the UK in case of urgent need, if they are still mobile enough. But more importantly many of them have nothing to go back there for so they hope to live here in health for as long as they can and then die quickly when the time comes.

 

If they went back to the UK now they would be miserable but well cared for in case of ill-heath, and what's the point of that?

Agree with you but there is the fact also many of them have scooters or small motorbikes and if involved in an accident and cause expensive damage/hurt to another person I wouldn't like to be in their flip-flops.

[Evilbaz]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Desperation has nothing to do with that.

A friend of mine who owns 3 condos in Thailand uses this system because he doesn't keep 800,000 baht (almost the price of a small studio) sleeping on a bank account.

On top of that, for long term residents with no Thai family members (wife, kids), there are not many options...I mean except for those who can afford to keep 800,000 baht in cash year after year...

Do the maths.

The lost interest on 800,000 baht for 3 months is nowhere near the agents fee of 15,000-42,000 baht quoted above.

The agent is catering to incompetent and/or lazy people.

If there are consequences later - "too bad".

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Desperation has nothing to do with that.

A friend of mine who owns 3 condos in Thailand uses this system because he doesn't keep 800,000 baht (almost the price of a small studio) sleeping on a bank account.

On top of that, for long term residents with no Thai family members (wife, kids), there are not many options...I mean except for those who can afford to keep 800,000 baht in cash year after year...

Well you only need to have there for 3 months and a day to be sure. Rest of the time you can do whar you want with it. In fact in many cases Imm' prefer to see some kind of movement out/in with it.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, notamember said:

Brunoleum you are the epitome of wild speculation by saying thats the way it happens,

its not even close to the truth, you are years and years out of date

Sure thing!

I was there only last month, helping a friend who speaks neither English nor Thai.

I must have gotten confused...

Anyway, this scheme can be run in many different ways depending on who one is dealing with.

One of these intermediates (Thai) just asks for the passport and one photo, no paperwork, no visit to the bank, nothing, then go away and comes back days later with the deed done...

 

One last thing, if I may...

You have some issues to deal with...maybe anger management could help...

 

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, notamember said:

Brunoleum you are the epitome of wild speculation by saying thats the way it happens,

its not even close to the truth, you are years and years out of date

Sorry my friend, from my experience he is pretty much right on.

You can basically just hand them your passport, pay, and come back at a later time.  There is some paperwork to complete, but not much.  Many guys a gals mailing in their passports from all over the world to their agents for the process. 

 

In Pattaya depending on when you see the agent, it may take up to 4 weeks.  Because many agents take them to Bangkok in bundles for processing.  1,000's every month.

 

  

 

 

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Sure thing!

I was there only last month, helping a friend who speaks neither English nor Thai.

I must have gotten confused...

Anyway, this scheme can be run in many different ways depending on who one is dealing with.

One of these intermediates (Thai) just asks for the passport and one photo, no paperwork, no visit to the bank, nothing, then go away and comes back days later with the deed done...

 

One last thing, if I may...

You have some issues to deal with...maybe anger management could help...

 

So your passport 'goes away' for a few days and comes back with all the stamps in it.

I'll pass on that one.

Were you here in 2002/2003 when the same thing was going on at one border crossing until a wanted terrorist used the service to enter Thailand and was arrested in Ayuthaya.

Cost lots of people money for fines, tickets home and new passports and visas when it all went t-ts up.

Just sayin.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Evilbaz said:

Do the maths.

The lost interest on 800,000 baht for 3 months is nowhere near the agents fee of 15,000-42,000 baht quoted above.

The agent is catering to incompetent and/or lazy people.

If there are consequences later - "too bad".

Someone who has, say, a retirement pension of 1,500 dollars or euros, thus below the 65,000 baht requirement, and doesn't have 800,000 baht (more than 25,000 dollars or euros) of savings in cash, may be perfectly able to live a decent life in Thailand.

There are many such persons, who are not necessarily "incompetent or lazy".

Assuming they don't have a Thai family, on what kind of visa do you suggest they stay in the country on a long term basis?

[ubonjoe]

A post attacking a member and a reply to it has been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

[Brunolem]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

So your passport 'goes away' for a few days and comes back with all the stamps in it.

I'll pass on that one.

Were you here in 2002/2003 when the same thing was going on at one border crossing until a wanted terrorist used the service to enter Thailand and was arrested in Ayuthaya.

Cost lots of people money for fines, tickets home and new passports and visas when it all went t-ts up.

Just sayin.

I was there and no I would never use this kind of service, but some do...just stating facts, doesn't mean I approve...

[Evilbaz]

37 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Someone who has, say, a retirement pension of 1,500 dollars or euros, thus below the 65,000 baht requirement, and doesn't have 800,000 baht (more than 25,000 dollars or euros) of savings in cash, may be perfectly able to live a decent life in Thailand.

There are many such persons, who are not necessarily "incompetent or lazy".

Assuming they don't have a Thai family, on what kind of visa do you suggest they stay in the country on a long term basis?

Well if they read and follow the Rules, which you obviously don't, They could use the combined method with a bank deposit for the deficit between their income and 800,000 baht - thousands do so legally.

[Jingthing]

I assume the actual topic here is about visa services that are charging money to people to get visas/extensions where the applicants are consciously not following the official rules. 

For example, when they don't actually own the funds, haven't actually seasoned the funds, etc.

Why does this thread basically about corruption even exist? Isn't this forum dedicated to providing sound advice on fully LEGAL methods for obtaining visas and extensions? 

Aren't people using these popular corrupt methods exposing themselves to at least potential problems down the line in case of a crackdown? 

 

Obviously some services are just hand holding and help applicants actually follow the rules. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Jingthing

[KittenKong]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why does this thread basically about corruption even exist?

 

Because it affects many people?

 

 

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Aren't people using these popular corrupt methods exposing themselves to at least potential problems down the line in case of a crackdown? 

 

I dont think so, for the reasons I gave. As far as I can see the applicant is doing absolutely nothing wrong. He is just submitting paperwork that does not exactly match the requirements, and those requirements are being ignored for whatever reason. It's not his decision.