About those retirement visas mills

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

An 800k transfer out of the account the day after the previous extension would likely stick out like a sore thumb in the passbook.

Sure but again, there are payoffs along the way no IO will care about that.

How do I know?  I used an agent before.....

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by bkk6060

[Jingthing]

The extremely credible source that informed me about the fee split between agents and officers also told me there was no way there would ever be a crackdown on these practices. Like anyone could know for sure about the future, but I was impressed with his confidence. 

Edited November 1, 2017 by Jingthing

[bkk6060]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

The extremely credible source that informed me about the fee split between agents and officers also told me there was no way there would ever be a crackdown on these practices. Like anyone could know for sure about the future, but I was impressed with his confidence. 

I agree with that it is huge money some people may be surprised....

[steven100]

I think this Topic has been hammered enough. Why open a can of worms.

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, Wilson Smith said:

I think if there was a crack down on retirement visas they would just have to ask to see the person's bank book. As I know the money is suppose to be in the account all year. If the person was suppose to receive the 65K a month I guess they could be asked to prove the deposits. I do not think the crackdown would be on the officers or the agents. Their policy might change but the only person at risk is the person with the visa.

If they wanted to proceed this way...going directly to the visa holders...they would have to check them all, since they would have no way to know who might have cheated and who might be clean.

That would mean knocking on tens of thousands of doors, all over the country...possible, but again very time consuming...

[Jingthing]

For those of us that have followed the actual rules for many years, it kind of makes us patsies, but if (a big if) there ever is a crackdown, we'd have the last laugh. 

[Wilson Smith]

2 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

If they wanted to proceed this way...going directly to the visa holders...they would have to check them all, since they would have no way to know who might have cheated and who might be clean.

That would mean knocking on tens of thousands of doors, all over the country...possible, but again very time consuming...

or just wait for renewal time asking for the bank account history and the funds inside. 

[Brunolem]

8 minutes ago, Wilson Smith said:

or just wait for renewal time asking for the bank account history and the funds inside. 

But it doesn't work that way.

The applicant is not sitting with his paperwork in front of an IO at the immigration office.

These "special" applications are treated after hours, with no witnesses and the applicant at home.

This may explain why the concerned IOs are so generously compensated: they work overtime!

[Wilson Smith]

Just now, Brunolem said:

But it doesn't work that way.

The applicant is not sitting with his paperwork in front of an IO at the immigration office.

These "special" applications are treated after hours, with no witnesses and the applicant at home.

This may explain why the concerned IOs are so generously compensated: they work overtime!

the point of this tread is what happens if there is a crackdown on "special" applications. As mentioned in this tread there could be 40,000 retirement visa in the Pattaya area. Lets say a person with a retirement visa does a crime and they investigate he never had the required money. In the past immigration has been very reactionary. Then perhaps the head of the immigration sends the message to all IO to cut this type of special option and add to the requirement a history of the money.     

[mstevens]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The extremely credible source that informed me about the fee split between agents and officers also told me there was no way there would ever be a crackdown on these practices. Like anyone could know for sure about the future, but I was impressed with his confidence. 

Crackdowns in Thailand tend to be a knee-jerk reaction to an event which got a lot of press.  So if, for example, a foreigner in Thailand does something very bad and the press picks up on it then that foreigner's background might be looked at.  And if it should come out that he had a retirement visa but was unable to fulfill the financial requirements and it was then discovered that he had used an agent (and by definition said agent was essentially assisting someone to stay in Thailand who did not meet the requirements / strictly speaking shouldn't be there) then at that point a crackdown on the practice might take place.

[bkk6060]

11 minutes ago, Wilson Smith said:

the point of this tread is what happens if there is a crackdown on "special" applications. As mentioned in this tread there could be 40,000 retirement visa in the Pattaya area. Lets say a person with a retirement visa does a crime and they investigate he never had the required money. In the past immigration has been very reactionary. Then perhaps the head of the immigration sends the message to all IO to cut this type of special option and add to the requirement a history of the money.     

Or how about read this and many other threads, or other sites, or drive around Pattaya and see the many obvious advertisements.  God, I was in the toilet the other day and Ads posted above the urinal about this topic, other Visa's, drivers license, etc.

All said do nothing just PAY!

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by bkk6060

[Tanoshi]

17 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

But it doesn't work that way.

The applicant is not sitting with his paperwork in front of an IO at the immigration office.

These "special" applications are treated after hours, with no witnesses and the applicant at home.

This may explain why the concerned IOs are so generously compensated: they work overtime!

 

They are generously compensated for overlooking the fraudulent documentation, such as false address and the fact the funds weren't held in the foreigners bank account for the required 2 month period.

 

It can backfire as a friend found out after paying 42,000 baht for the privilege.

[Orton Rd]

41 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I think this Topic has been hammered enough. Why open a can of worms.

You are starting to sound worried about all this, you can always ignore the thread. I wonder if the junta knows it goes on?

Edited November 1, 2017 by Orton Rd

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

An 800k transfer out of the account the day after the previous extension would likely stick out like a sore thumb in the passbook.

There is nothing underhand in doing this. Some perfectly legitimate applicants would choose, at a minimum, to put the money into a six month CD rather than having it sit idle in a bank account.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, BritTim said:

There is nothing underhand in doing this. Some perfectly legitimate applicants would choose, at a minimum, to put the money into a six month CD rather than having it sit idle in a bank account.

Yes the rules are only about the money seasoning period. 

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

The money is required to be seasoned for 3 months (or 2 months in the case of a first retirement extension application). And I gather that retirement extension applicants who prove their finances on the basis of 800k THB in the bank are required to produce their bank passbooks in any case (along with an ultra-recent confirmation letter from the bank).

 

So, while, an applicant, who was part of some some 800k-THB-sharing "club" (as referred to above), might get away with it the first time, he would probably be found out the next year if an eagle-eyed IO spotted that 800k had been transferred out of his account the day after he had applied for his previous extension and magically re-appeared in his account 3 months before the date of his current application!

Which is perfectly fine, the rules state that it has to be in there for 3 months before the date of application, there is no rule stating what can and can't be done with it in the following 9 months so they don't question it if it is withdrawn straight after a application

 

You're scaremongering, they will be fine

 

[Jingthing]

To add, generally offices are happy if you give them a copy of the  bank book going  back only for the seasoning period. One time I gave the entire year and they threw the extra paper back at me. Also, not once, not ever, have I had to produce the actual bank book that sourced the copies. Obviously anything can happen, but it's really true, only the seasoning period is of interest to officers. 

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

 

They are generously compensated for overlooking the fraudulent documentation, such as false address and the fact the funds weren't held in the foreigners bank account for the required 2 month period.

 

It can backfire as a friend found out after paying 42,000 baht for the privilege.

Can you expand a little about this fine? Give some context...

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Can you expand a little about this fine? Give some context...

He paid an agent 42k baht to do the extension. He was not writing about a fine.

 

[Brunolem]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

He paid an agent 42k baht to do the extension. He was not writing about a fine.

 

Now that was expensive!

Regular prices generally hover between 15,000 and 20,000 baht...

[Brunolem]

Since many members are mentioning the 800,000 baht, I have been wondering for quite some time why the authorities are so focused on cash?

A guy who buys a 5 mllion baht condo or house does not qualify for a visa, even though he brings much more to the local economy than a guy who keeps 800,000 baht sleeping on a bank account.

And it's the same for these new 10 year visas...an obsession with cash!

Reminds one of the cartels...cash only...

[stegee]

On 10/31/2017 at 1:53 PM, overherebc said:

Two guys I know used such a service and when they turned up at the local office for the first 90 day report were informed they had to report to the area it was issued over 200 kilometres away. 

no problem anymore- they can just use the online 90 day reporting. . . 

Edited November 1, 2017 by stegee
typo

[Jingthing]

55 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Since many members are mentioning the 800,000 baht, I have been wondering for quite some time why the authorities are so focused on cash?

A guy who buys a 5 mllion baht condo or house does not qualify for a visa, even though he brings much more to the local economy than a guy who keeps 800,000 baht sleeping on a bank account.

And it's the same for these new 10 year visas...an obsession with cash!

Reminds one of the cartels...cash only...

Thems the rules. Our place is not to ask why. Just follow them. 

[overherebc]

20 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thems the rules. Our place is not to ask why. Just follow them. 

Yep and compare to EU and UK where all you need is no passport and shout about being from a poor country so you must help me.

I know where I would rather be.

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Can you expand a little about this fine? Give some context...

 

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

He paid an agent 42k baht to do the extension. He was not writing about a fine.

 

It was a conversion from a TV to an extension based on retirement handled by a well know legal company,

In his case he had the 800,000, opened a bank account and transferred the funds.

Next day Immigration stamped the Non O in his passport.

Day after they stamped the extension in his passport and a multi re-entry permit.

He never visited Immigration.

 

When he arrived at his permanent address in Isaan, he filed a TM28 and TM30, but when he attempted his first 90 day report, they refused because they didn't approve the way the extension was issued. It was obvious the funds weren't seasoned for the required 2 months.

They told him to make his reports at BKK who issued the extension over 600kms away.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Tanoshi

[Jingthing]

A conversion and an extension are two separate services. That certainly explains the unusually higher cost. 

[KittenKong]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Since many members are mentioning the 800,000 baht, I have been wondering for quite some time why the authorities are so focused on cash?

A guy who buys a 5 mllion baht condo or house does not qualify for a visa, even though he brings much more to the local economy than a guy who keeps 800,000 baht sleeping on a bank account.

 

The 800kB deposit, or 65kB per month income, is a figure that is assumed to be adequate for a farang to support himself for the duration of his one-year extension. That's all there is to it.

 

Someone with a condo could have no actual cash money to support himself at all, and so might become a drain on Thai resources, or turn to crime to support himself. Also it is hard to verify the real value of assets like condos. Verifying cash is easy.

[Jingthing]

27 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

The 800kB deposit, or 65kB per month income, is a figure that is assumed to be adequate for a farang to support himself for the duration of his one-year extension. That's all there is to it.

 

Someone with a condo could have no actual cash money to support himself at all, and so might become a drain on Thai resources, or turn to crime to support himself. Also it is hard to verify the real value of assets like condos. Verifying cash is easy.

Yes but there are some countries that at least lower the financial requirements if you own housing. That makes sense too.

[bttao]

On 10/31/2017 at 8:43 AM, ubonjoe said:

If you can meet the 65k income requirement there is no need to have the 800k baht in the bank to apply for an extension of stay at immigration.

You can only get a one year extension of stay at at immigration here. You can apply for the extension of stay during the last 30 days of any of  the 90 day entries from your the visa you have now.

The 10 year non-ox visa at this time can only be applied for at a embassy or official consulate in your home country. Requirement are here. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/other/7395/80939-Non-–-Immigrant-Visa--“O---X”-(Long-Stay-10-years).html

What do they require as proof of having a pension/income  worth 65K a month and more ?

They don't seem to trust anything other than  a note from the US embassy in BKK.... DO THEY?

and how often do you need to show/give  them the proof ?

Do you need to deposit  65K every month at a Thai bank?

Please explain if you know.... thanks.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, bttao said:

What do they require as proof of having a pension/income  worth 65K a month and more ?

They don't seem to trust anything other than  a note from the US embassy in BKK.... DO THEY?

and how often do you need to show/give  them the proof ?

Do you need to deposit  65K every month at a Thai bank?

Please explain if you know.... thanks.

You make an attestation at the US Embassy (or consulate, or one of the outreaches) and your attestation is dated and witnessed. Each year, when you do your extension of stay, you must present an attestation no older than 6-months old. The official can demand further documents, but in practice they rarely do. There is no need for any deposits into a Thai bank. Apart from at the time of your extension of stay, you will not be queried about your income.