About those retirement visas mills

[JackThompson]

45 minutes ago, THAILIBAN said:

Well that is what happened to an older chap that I know who is short of cash. He used an agent, and when he went to do his first 90 day report at Chaengwattana (he lives in BKK), the Immi officer told him that now he needs a good lawyer, as his extension of stay was granted at a nearby province, but not where he actually lives.....  LOL

Sounds like someone was upset that an agent handling Bangkok residents was sending brown-envelopes to another office.

[BritTim]

45 minutes ago, THAILIBAN said:

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

You are not reading it correctly.

They live in one area and the agent did the initial work in another one. When they tried to do the first 90 day locally they were told they had to report where 'they/agent' had obtained the extension.

Just think about giving your passport to an agent in BKK, going to Imm' in BKK to do your 90 day report and being told you have to report where you got the extension in Phuket. Extreme I know but that's the kind of thing that can happen when you can't/don't follow the system.

 

Well that is what happened to an older chap that I know who is short of cash. He used an agent, and when he went to do his first 90 day report at Chaengwattana (he lives in BKK), the Immi officer told him that now he needs a good lawyer, as his extension of stay was granted at a nearby province, but not where he actually lives.....  LOL

One moral of such stories: do not use an agent to process an extension of stay without requiring your attendance (briefly) at the immigration office. Plenty of agents are processing extensions correctly, just handling details for you and getting you priority queuing. Doing it without immigration seeing your face carries a high risk of something fishy going on.

[overherebc]

4 minutes ago, BritTim said:

One moral of such stories: do not use an agent to process an extension of stay without requiring your attendance (briefly) at the immigration office. Plenty of agents are processing extensions correctly, just handling details for you and getting you priority queuing. Doing it without immigration seeing your face carries a high risk of something fishy going on.

Very true.

[THAILIBAN]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Sounds like someone was upset that an agent handling Bangkok residents was sending brown-envelopes to another office.

 

In that case, I rather believe that it was cheaper for the agent to use that immi officer from the "Chonabot", as that older chap that I know has a hard time to make ends meet and his agent knows that since many years and charges him much lower than usual fees. That is just my guess, though

[overherebc]

While I disagree with the under the table extensions I can't understand why 4 expats can't figure out a way to get the cash together and work out the timing to use and pass on the cash having their dates for extensions 3 months apart if you know what I mean. Four married guys is 400,000 that each one could use in turn.

Hold on, just worked it out!!!

None of them can trust each other.

[steven2018]

I contacted an agent by email about retirement options in Thailand, he referenced a '21-day' option. I did not question further as it would have involved a phone call - from the US to Thailand, of which I did not want to do at that moment for personal reasons. Anyone heard of this 21 day option, and what is involved?

 

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[BritTim]

53 minutes ago, steven2018 said:

I contacted an agent by email about retirement options in Thailand, he referenced a '21-day' option. I did not question further as it would have involved a phone call - from the US to Thailand, of which I did not want to do at that moment for personal reasons. Anyone heard of this 21 day option, and what is involved?

I speculate that he is saying his service provides a conversion from tourist entry to non immigrant entry plus one-year extension on the basis of retirement in 21 days. Other agents can provide the same thing in about 10-14 days (in Bangkok at least).

 

What exactly it entails will vary depending on the agent and where you live. Typically, they will make an appointment for you to make a single visit to immigration (with priority queuing so little wait) and then hold your passport while they get everything done.

[KittenKong]

On 03/11/2017 at 3:32 PM, Brunolem said:

In other words, why not up the visa fees and simplify the procedures?

For exemple:

- retirement visa for 20,000 baht with the only requirement being the proof of a valid address, confirmed by some local authority

 

I see nothing attractive about that at all.

 

I would much rather deposit the 800kB, get tax-free interest on it and pay the lower 1900B fee for my retirement extension. The extension I do myself every year and it takes me all of an hour to complete, and costs me under 100B in paperwork costs (photocopies, photos). Nuts to paying more for nothing.

[Tanoshi]

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:32 PM, Brunolem said:

retirement visa for 20,000 baht with the only requirement being the proof of a valid address, confirmed by some local authority

What is a retirement Visa?

Are you talking about a 90 day Non Imm O Visa, or an extension of stay based on retirement.

Currently it's 2,000 baht for conversion to a 90 day Non Imm O and 1,900 baht for an extension.

If you mean showing 20,000 baht instead of the current 800,000 baht for an extension, that wouldn't leave much to fall back on in the case of an emergency.

 

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:32 PM, Brunolem said:

non O or B, and tourist visas available directly at the immigration offices for 5,000 baht, with the same documentation...it costs more to go get them abroad and the money goes to Laos or Cambodia, or wherever...

Immigration is a branch of the Thai Police.

Thailand's MFA are responsible for Thai Embassies and Consulates who issue Visa, and the profits come back to guess where.

 

On ‎03‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:32 PM, Brunolem said:

30 days exemption stamps available directly at the immigration offices for 2,000 baht, twice a year max...right now one has to go to the border, pay 1,500 baht for a Lao or Cambodian visa, in order to get a free (!) stamp from Thailand.

30 day extensions are available at Immigration for Visa exempt and TV's (1,900 baht).

If 60 or 90 days isn't enough time for your planned stay in Thailand, then you should consider an alternative Visa type.

 

Thailand has one of the easiest open door Immigration policies for Visitors and expats to enjoy life in Thailand.

You appear to want to change it to suit your circumstances instead of conforming to the numerous choices already available.

[BuddyDean]

A crackdown on Liar Letters would be more likely, since most don't use agents, and only about half are legit, and half of those see the money remitted to LOS.  Ironic, how so many are quick to state that 800 K is nothing, yet most can't come up with it.  Reminds me of the lifelong renters..they wouldn't buy because it was supposedly better to rent, but when prices were cut in half they still didn't buy.  The THB is up 8% vs. USD this year..add 2% interest, and that is a pretty nice return.  The agents that specialize in visas without the money seem to be much more prevalent in Patts or even HH.  Rarely see them in CM, but many use agents to avoid the line, and of course still use their bogus letter.  The not being able to do a 90 sounds extremely dodgy, and good luck with TM30.

Edited November 5, 2017 by BuddyDean

[rott]

On Thursday, November 02, 2017 at 9:44 PM, Brunolem said:

Sure...technically, it is a one year extension of a non O visa...but for convenience everybody uses the term retirement visa, starting with those who advertise for them.

Can you imagine the confusion if they came up with something like "non O extension, no money blah blah blah".

There are different kinds of non O extensions, thus the word retirement helps differentiate this specific extension from the others.

 

Not wishing to sound snotty or smartarsed but in my experience the only people who speak of a "retirement visa" are people who don't know anythingabything about visas, and will also refer to a visa exempt as a visa on arrival.

 

The subject of visas can get very complicated, very quickly so it is wiser to use the correct terminology from the start.

 

I am lost as to the "no money blah blah" bit.

Edited November 5, 2017 by rott
trying to delete..waste of time.

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, BuddyDean said:

A crackdown on Liar Letters would be more likely, since most don't use agents, and only about half are legit, and half of those see the money remitted to LOS. 
...

This thread is about agents, but I want to address your comment which I'm assuming is about people using embassy INCOME LETTERS for legal applications based on income method (and also combination applications). You're calling them liar letters. That's disgusting to label them that way which suggests everyone using them is lying. As far as remitting the funds stated in the letters to Thailand, it seems to me, like many others, that you falsely think people are required to import all of the income stated in the letter to Thailand. They are not. So whether people import the full income, less, or more, is totally irrelevant. There are some nations with retirement visas that do require full import of required income. Thailand is NOT one of them.

I hope that is sorted now. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Jingthing

[chuang]

16 hours ago, overherebc said:

While I disagree with the under the table extensions I can't understand why 4 expats can't figure out a way to get the cash together and work out the timing to use and pass on the cash having their dates for extensions 3 months apart if you know what I mean. Four married guys is 400,000 that each one could use in turn.

Hold on, just worked it out!!!

None of them can trust each other.

Who to trust Tom Dick or Harry...

[BuddyDean]

I estimated half were lying.  There have been reports of the IO wanting to see the deposits,  and I don't know if it was OK to show them deposits in the US.  It is wide!y abused make no mistake about it, and it is the envy of all, whose countries can't participate.  Who would lay 26,000 if they could use an 1800 THB letter?

[notamember]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This thread is about agents, but I want to address your comment which I'm assuming is about people using embassy INCOME LETTERS for legal applications based on income method (and also combination applications). You're calling them liar letters. That's disgusting to label them that way which suggests everyone using them is lying. As far as remitting the funds stated in the letters to Thailand, it seems to me, like many others, that you falsely think people are required to import all of the income stated in the letter to Thailand. They are not. So whether people import the full income, less, or more, is totally irrelevant. There are some nations with retirement visas that do require full import of required income. Thailand is NOT one of them.

I hope that is sorted now. 

My friend says his business would increase tenfold if US citizens were made to produce evidence of income to get the income letter

when Australia floated the idea earlier this year and even enacted it for a few weeks, he said his phone was red hot with panicked Aussies who had lied before and could not produce the evidence if asked

 

in my view the lying letter brigade is akin to the US CD scam in 2008 when self declaration mortgages were allowed and Mexican garden maintenance guys  were given mortgages based on $2000 a week income when it was nearer $200 

Look what happened there......

 

UK applicants have to prove actual income to get the letter as does many other countries embassies

The US has a gaping loophole thats well known by the US community in Thailand and by exploiting it, its citizens lie to the US government and commit a federal offense by doing so

Would that make an application for a visa with the income letter with fudged numbers fraudulent ?

i would have thought so

 

 

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, rott said:

Not wishing to sound snotty or smartarsed but in my experience the only people who speak of a "retirement visa" are people who don't know anythingabything about visas, and will also refer to a visa exempt as a visa on arrival.

 

The subject of visas can get very complicated, very quickly so it is wiser to use the correct terminology from the start.

 

I am lost as to the "no money blah blah" bit.

 

A Kleenex is a brand.  But most people ask for a Kleenex, not a facial tissue.

 

Most people refer to it as a retirement visa. Even at Immigration. Actually if someone does not know what a "Retirement Visa" is, they are the ones not well schooled. 

It's common knowledge, if one has common sense.

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by bkk6060

[JLCrab]

The US State Department has a policy worldwide that its Embassies and Consulates cannot verify the authenticity of any document presented to it in person including even a document from the US Government itself. Any Thai Immigration office right now has the authority to request corroborating information from anyone submitting an Income Affidavit in requesting an extension of stay whether from USA or anywhere else.

[Jingthing]

21 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

 

A Kleenex is a brand.  But most people ask for a Kleenex, not a facial tissue.

 

Most people refer to it as a retirement visa. Even at Immigration. Actually if someone does not know what a "Retirement Visa" is, they are the ones not well schooled. 

It's common knowledge, if one has common sense.

 

What are you on about?

Dude, when people say "retirement visa" they could be talking about any one of a number of things. So it's really helpful to be more specific.

 

For example, people say retirement visa to mean --

 

O-A visas

 

O visas obtained outside Thailand (not O-A) used as the first step before an annual extension

 

O visas obtained from a conversion application in Thailand, used as a first step before an annual extension

 

Annual extensions based on retirement

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What are you on about?

Dude, when people say "retirement visa" they could be talking about any one of a number of things. So it's really helpful to be more specific.

 

For example, people say retirement visa to mean --

 

O-A visas

 

O visas obtained outside Thailand (not O-A) used as the first step before an annual extension

 

O visas obtained from a conversion application in Thailand, used as a first step before an annual extension

 

Annual extensions based on retirement

It is about simplicity not semantics.

Every single person I know refers to it as such. But when someone says 

retirement visa and you have no idea what they are talking about.  Then, I guess you don't.

Edited November 5, 2017 by bkk6060

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

It is about simplicity not semantics.

Every single person I know refers to it as such. But when someone says 

retirement visa and you have no idea what they are talking about.  Then, I guess you don't.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about again.

Everyone refers to what?

I gave a list. They are all often referred to as retirement visas and they are all specific and different things. 

This isn't a trivial matter. 

We've had reports over the years here of many people totally messing up their legal status here because they didn't know the difference. 

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

What is a retirement Visa?

Are you talking about a 90 day Non Imm O Visa, or an extension of stay based on retirement.

Currently it's 2,000 baht for conversion to a 90 day Non Imm O and 1,900 baht for an extension.

If you mean showing 20,000 baht instead of the current 800,000 baht for an extension, that wouldn't leave much to fall back on in the case of an emergency.

 

Immigration is a branch of the Thai Police.

Thailand's MFA are responsible for Thai Embassies and Consulates who issue Visa, and the profits come back to guess where.

 

30 day extensions are available at Immigration for Visa exempt and TV's (1,900 baht).

If 60 or 90 days isn't enough time for your planned stay in Thailand, then you should consider an alternative Visa type.

 

Thailand has one of the easiest open door Immigration policies for Visitors and expats to enjoy life in Thailand.

You appear to want to change it to suit your circumstances instead of conforming to the numerous choices already available.

You are jumping to conclusions too quickly.

As I already explained a few posts above, I am not personally concerned by all these visa issues

If I was, i would not use words like "someone" or "one", but rather "I", as I do in other threads

I like to exchange ideas and opinions about different subjects, that's all there is to it.

As for your other comments, my point was to suggest alternatives that would help the Thai immigration to make more money, instead of letting this money go to the Lao or Cambodian immigration, for example.

This was clearly understood by the member who answered just below my post...

[rott]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

 

A Kleenex is a brand.  But most people ask for a Kleenex, not a facial tissue.

 

Most people refer to it as a retirement visa. Even at Immigration. Actually if someone does not know what a "Retirement Visa" is, they are the ones not well schooled. 

It's common knowledge, if one has common sense.

 

Many of the people I know are here on extension of stay, when the subject vomes up people usually say they are "on retirement" or on "marriage ".

 

You are fortunate to be blessed with so much common sense, you could possibly pass some on to ubonjoe as he has told somany people there is no such thing as a retirement visa. Tjink of how much time and effort you could save him.

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, rott said:

Not wishing to sound snotty or smartarsed but in my experience the only people who speak of a "retirement visa" are people who don't know anythingabything about visas, and will also refer to a visa exempt as a visa on arrival.

 

The subject of visas can get very complicated, very quickly so it is wiser to use the correct terminology from the start.

 

I am lost as to the "no money blah blah" bit.

Many people would rather say: "I just got my retirement visa" rather than "I just got my one year extension of stay based on retirement".

Let's just call it a shortcut...knowledge of the visa vocabulary having little to do with it...

 

[Jingthing]

I think it's different for people that are learning how to get started in the visa system here vs. people that have lived here for years on retirement extensions. For the former, it's very important that they understand the correct terminology for different things. For example, an O-A visa has very different properties than a retirement extension. Not knowing that can really mess people up or even just prevent them from getting the full benefit of starting with an O-A visa. 

[rott]

3 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Many people would rather say: "I just got my retirement visa" rather than "I just got my one year extension of stay based on retirement".

Let's just call it a shortcut...knowledge of the visa vocabulary having little to do with it...

 

I disagree.

[Brunolem]

19 hours ago, THAILIBAN said:

 

I know people who live in Pattaya and do it that way. We discussed Visa topics a few months back and they told me they (still as recent as 2017) get their passport back the next day, so most likely it doesn't even leave the Jomtien immi office building

There are 2 different cases.

In order to get a retirement "extension", one has to get a non O visa first.

If one already has such a visa, the process takes one or two days.

But if one doesn't have such a visa, then the agent can't get it, but only in Bangkok, and this takes about 4 weeks.

No idea why it takes so long...

 

[JLCrab]

While it may be that those from UK and other countries have to 'prove' their income to obtain an income affidavit letter, it is the US policy worldwide that there is no way for Embassy or Consulate staff to determine the authenticity of any document presented as to whether the 'proof' document presented has been forged or modified after leaving the institution from where it originated.

 

So while the Thai Immigration officials may at some point decide to change their policy on income affidavits, I'm pretty sure the US State Department won't be changing its policy.W

[Jingthing]

Also consider a forum that is dedicated to helping people with correct visa advice is a more formal environment than a bar stool. When people need visa help here, they have a right to expect to learn the facts about correct terminology and also to have their incorrect terminology corrected. People come on all the time here and say I want a retirement visa. These people need to learn that term is used for different things and then they need to decide which path is best for them. 

The first step of course is to figure out if they are talking about or want an O-A visa, or not. It's often not at all clear what people are talking about when they don't use specific terms. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Jingthing

[Brunolem]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

This isn't a trivial matter. 

 

Yes it is...

[Jingthing]

Just now, Brunolem said:

Yes it is...

Tell that to the people that have messed up their legal status here because they didn't understand what they had in their passports.