Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 A number of agents and other intermediaries, such as the ones who advertise in this forum, offer to get you a retirement visa, providing only that you are at least 50 years old. They take care of the rest, especially the pesky money issue (the 800,000 baht). Now, I know that these visas are genuine, but I have been wondering to what extent these practices are legal, or not, and whether they carry a risk for the buyers, and what that risk would be? Your input is welcome... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 They are not exactly illegal but the applications are certainly fraudulent since the person getting the extension does not really have the 800k baht in the bank. The risk is if immigration had a crackdown on the offices working with those agents to do them. A person could end up with their extension being canceled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrendsd Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Are you planning to use one of these services? If not then it really doesn't matter to you whether they are legal or not If you are planning to use one and you feel you may have problems further down the line then don't use them, it's as simple as that really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glegolo Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 As ubonjoe says, and to put all bullshit aside. If you OR the agent is being catched with your trousers down, i.e. finding out that you have a fraudulent extension based in lies. Then you and that agent are in DEEP SHIP, so called bullshit.. It doesn´t matter what the guys here, who often uses this lying service is writing here, you will face big problem. Think twice before acting on it.. and if you are able think three times... Glegolo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Author Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2017 I will try to reply to the posts above all at once...save some time. I think that things are a bit more complicated than that. First, to go back to an agent and his clients, the "raiders" would have to start raiding...the immigration offices! Because it is there that the applications with the comproming documents are stored... Agents, if and when they are involved, most probably don't keep a copy of their customers' documentation...why would they? Then, what is provided for the application is a certificate from a bank, stating that on said day, such amount of money was on your account. From that genuine document, one can't readily deduct wether there was fool play or not...one would have to go to individual accounts, which would require a lot of work and paperwork, in order to find out if everything was done according to the rules or not. Now, I am not planning to use such a scheme, but as strange as it may seem, I am always interested in learning new things and being well informed in general...let's call that intellectual curiosity...something that helps me thinking, even three times, if necessary... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanyaburi Mac Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not all that long ago, circa 1998, it was still possible to obtain a Thai multiple entry tourist visa from aa Thai consulate in another country, and not have to leave Thailand. Just hand your baht over to the agent, he'd send your passport and application to a friendly consulate, such as Honolulu at the time, and in 2-3 weeks you'd get your passport back with the visa. Just needed to be activated by departing, and re-entering on the new visa. Then, always the "then," Immigration really cracked down, starting with the agents, some spent time in the crowbar hotel, fined, business closed down. Many of those expats with the visas in their passports also had a tough time as Immigration started to look at the stamps, as to when they departed Thailand, and returned with the visa, and if the timing of the stamps didn't match up, oops! Mac 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Thanyaburi Mac said: Not all that long ago, circa 1998, it was still possible to obtain a Thai multiple entry tourist visa from aa Thai consulate in another country, and not have to leave Thailand. Just hand your baht over to the agent, he'd send your passport and application to a friendly consulate, such as Honolulu at the time, and in 2-3 weeks you'd get your passport back with the visa. Just needed to be activated by departing, and re-entering on the new visa. Then, always the "then," Immigration really cracked down, starting with the agents, some spent time in the crowbar hotel, fined, business closed down. Many of those expats with the visas in their passports also had a tough time as Immigration started to look at the stamps, as to when they departed Thailand, and returned with the visa, and if the timing of the stamps didn't match up, oops! Mac True...I remember that... And the same thing could happen, especially in Pattaya with its 40,000 + foreigners on retirement visas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstevens Posted October 31, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2017 A friend has been doing this for years with the same agent who is in cahoots with an Immigration officer. The fee (26,000 baht as I recall) is probably split between the agent and the Immigration officer making it a nice little earner for both parties. Personally, I would not consider doing this. Probably should only be considered by those who have no other options. If there was a crackdown or something brought it to the authorities attention then it could get embarrassing for anyone with such a visa. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 17 minutes ago, mstevens said: is probably split between the agent and the Immigration officer making it a nice little earner for both parties I would imagine a bank officer would have to be involved also. If I am correct, they certainly would require recompense for their risk-taking and provision of documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 52 minutes ago, Brunolem said: ... First, to go back to an agent and his clients, the "raiders" would have to start raiding...the immigration offices! Because it is there that the applications with the comproming documents are stored... Yes, many "fine upstanding families" (who paid serious-bucks buy their member's lucrative brown-envelope job) might be ruined. 52 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Then, what is provided for the application is a certificate from a bank, stating that on said day, such amount of money was on your account. From that genuine document, one can't readily deduct w(h)ether there was fool play or not...one would have to go to individual accounts, which would require a lot of work and paperwork, in order to find out if everything was done according to the rules or not. What would be missing from these files, would be the copies of bank-books showing the amount in the bank going back 2 or 3 months - for 1st time and subsequent retirement-based Non-O extensions, respectively - or 2-mo in all cases for marriage-based Non-Os. I think that would be easy to spot. 52 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Now, I am not planning to use such a scheme, but as strange as it may seem, I am always interested in learning new things and being well informed in general...let's call that intellectual curiosity...something that helps me thinking, even three times, if necessary... Agree with NOT doing this - though at least you could claim you didn't know that your agent - paid to understand these things for you - was bribing a govt-agent. I made the trip out of the country, to avoid agent/bribe schemes for a Conversion. If faced with a similar dilemma for 1-year extensions, I will go abroad (again) to obtain a legit-Visa. 1 hour ago, Thanyaburi Mac said: Not all that long ago, circa 1998, it was still possible to obtain a Thai multiple entry tourist visa from aa Thai consulate in another country, and not have to leave Thailand. Just hand your baht over to the agent, he'd send your passport and application to a friendly consulate, such as Honolulu at the time, and in 2-3 weeks you'd get your passport back with the visa. Just needed to be activated by departing, and re-entering on the new visa. Then, always the "then," Immigration really cracked down... Of course - because immigration wasn't getting a cut of the action. More of the same pattern - additional restrictions on visa exempts (many formulas tried), increased scrutiny of those on repeat Tourist Visas (at some entry-points), and "crackdowns" on ED-Visas (schools now act as the agents for extensions AND get higher tuition payments for increased-hours - one hand washing the other). Like most things in this world - "follow the money," and it all makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 19 minutes ago, JackThompson said: Agree with NOT doing this - though at least you could claim you didn't know that your agent - paid to understand these things for you - was bribing a govt-agent. I made the trip out of the country, to avoid agent/bribe schemes for a Conversion. If faced with a similar dilemma for 1-year extensions, I will go abroad (again) to obtain a legit-Visa. Jack, one "technical" question: how do you do to regroup many quotes in one single post? Does one has to use a computer for that? Can't seem to be able to do it with the touchscreen of my tablet... Otherwise I agree with you that, even though it is boring and a bit more expensive, getting a legit visa is the right thing to do...better safe than sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackThompson Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Brunolem said: Jack, one "technical" question: how do you do to regroup many quotes in one single post? Does one has to use a computer for that? Can't seem to be able to do it with the touchscreen of my tablet... Otherwise I agree with you that, even though it is boring and a bit more expensive, getting a legit visa is the right thing to do...better safe than sorry... On a computer - highlight part of a post, and a "quote" pop-up shows up - click it - the highlighted text is added with the quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Two guys I know used such a service and when they turned up at the local office for the first 90 day report were informed they had to report to the area it was issued over 200 kilometres away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 41 minutes ago, JackThompson said: On a computer - highlight part of a post, and a "quote" pop-up shows up - click it - the highlighted text is added with the quote. OK...thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, JackThompson said: 1 hour ago, Brunolem said: Jack, one "technical" question: how do you do to regroup many quotes in one single post? Does one has to use a computer for that? Can't seem to be able to do it with the touchscreen of my tablet... Otherwise I agree with you that, even though it is boring and a bit more expensive, getting a legit visa is the right thing to do...better safe than sorry... On a computer - highlight part of a post, and a "quote" pop-up shows up - click it - the highlighted text is added with the quote. It also works on an iPad as the above shows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, overherebc said: Two guys I know used such a service and when they turned up at the local office for the first 90 day report were informed they had to report to the area it was issued over 200 kilometres away. I am informed by friends using the "user-friendly, no 800,000" retirement extension method that the 90-day notification obligation (T.M. 47) is informally "waived". Had your friends done nothing for a year, I think everything would have been fine. For year 2, go back to the agent, get another year and receive another "waiver" for a year. So, I am informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overherebc Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, Briggsy said: I am informed by friends using the "user-friendly, no 800,000" retirement extension method that the 90-day notification obligation (T.M. 47) is informally "waived". Had your friends done nothing for a year, I think everything would have been fine. For year 2, go back to the agent, get another year and receive another "waiver" for a year. So, I am informed. A. Not friends. B. If they have been informed there is no need for 90 day reports then that sounds like anything stamped in their passport can't be shown at an Imm' office as it's most likely not a genuine Imm' stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 56 minutes ago, Briggsy said: I am informed by friends using the "user-friendly, no 800,000" retirement extension method that the 90-day notification obligation (T.M. 47) is informally "waived". Had your friends done nothing for a year, I think everything would have been fine. For year 2, go back to the agent, get another year and receive another "waiver" for a year. So, I am informed. There is no 90 days report waiver as far as I know...but there is now the possibility to report without showing up at the immigration (7 eleven and else...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 minutes ago, Brunolem said: There is no 90 days report waiver as far as I know...but there is now the possibility to report without showing up at the immigration (7 eleven and else...). The only options for not doing them in person is online, by mail or having somebody do them for you (7 eleven was a April fools joke). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brunolem Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 49 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: The only options for not doing them in person is online, by mail or having somebody do them for you (7 eleven was a April fools joke). Good to know...thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bttao Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 If 800K is deposited in a Thai bank, and for some reason one doesn't get the OA- Retirement Visa: How easy Can he/she be able to export those 800K and at what cost? Thanks for any help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yooper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 55 minutes ago, bttao said: If 800K is deposited in a Thai bank, and for some reason one doesn't get the OA- Retirement Visa: How easy Can he/she be able to export those 800K and at what cost? Thanks for any help... Aside from the 800K issue what other requirement had to be met? I am way way past 50yrs old. I believe I may need to get a letter from my embassy regarding my income.... anything else? Is this visa good for 10 years with only 90 day reporting and no need to exit the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, bttao said: If 800K is deposited in a Thai bank, and for some reason one doesn't get the OA- Retirement Visa: How easy Can he/she be able to export those 800K and at what cost? Thanks for any help... A OA visa can only be applied for at a embassy in your home country or country of legal residence. The money can be in a bank there to apply for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 43 minutes ago, yooper said: Aside from the 800K issue what other requirement had to be met? I am way way past 50yrs old. I believe I may need to get a letter from my embassy regarding my income.... anything else? Is this visa good for 10 years with only 90 day reporting and no need to exit the country? If you can meet the 65k income requirement there is no need to have the 800k baht in the bank to apply for an extension of stay at immigration. You can only get a one year extension of stay at at immigration here. You can apply for the extension of stay during the last 30 days of any of the 90 day entries from your the visa you have now. The 10 year non-ox visa at this time can only be applied for at a embassy or official consulate in your home country. Requirement are here. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/other/7395/80939-Non-–-Immigrant-Visa--“O---X”-(Long-Stay-10-years).html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yooper Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 44 minutes ago, ubonjoe said: If you can meet the 65k income requirement there is no need to have the 800k baht in the bank to apply for an extension of stay at immigration. You can only get a one year extension of stay at at immigration here. You can apply for the extension of stay during the last 30 days of any of the 90 day entries from your the visa you have now. The 10 year non-ox visa at this time can only be applied for at a embassy or official consulate in your home country. Requirement are here. http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/other/7395/80939-Non-–-Immigrant-Visa--“O---X”-(Long-Stay-10-years).html Thanks! According to the link it can be applied for in Thailand... and the money amounts are different which is not an issue. The troublesome part may be getting Thai health insurance at my age (over 70) as quoted below. Maybe it is do-able/affordable at the minimums stated ... something else to investigate on this trip. "5. Applicants must have Thai medical insurance during their stay in Thailand (per the approval of the Office of Insurance Commission) and medical claims for outpatient must not be less than 40,000 Baht, for inpatient must not be less than 400,000 Baht." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubonjoe Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 minutes ago, yooper said: Thanks! According to the link it can be applied for in Thailand... and the money amounts are different which is not an issue. The troublesome part may be getting Thai health insurance at my age (over 70) as quoted below. Maybe it is do-able/affordable at the minimums stated ... something else to investigate on this trip. "5. Applicants must have Thai medical insurance during their stay in Thailand (per the approval of the Office of Insurance Commission) and medical claims for outpatient must not be less than 40,000 Baht, for inpatient must not be less than 400,000 Baht." Immigration here has not posted any requirements yet. IMO they will not be done by immigration. For the insurance the the Thai embassy in Washington DC has more info that includes a link to Thai insurance companies offering insurance for the non-ox visa. See: http://thaiembdc.org/non-immigrant-visa-category-o-x-long-stay/ Applying for extensions of stay every year based are not that big a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1066 Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 hours ago, overherebc said: A. Not friends. B. If they have been informed there is no need for 90 day reports then that sounds like anything stamped in their passport can't be shown at an Imm' office as it's most likely not a genuine Imm' stamp. The agents/officers do it on their customers' behalf. Its really very unlikely they were sold fake extension stamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 37 minutes ago, Mark1066 said: The agents/officers do it on their customers' behalf. Its really very unlikely they were sold fake extension stamps. I think he's suggesting that despite the stamps being the real thing, there may be nothing to support them in the immigration computer system which may raise an eyebrow if one moves to another immigration jurisdiction and either 'checks-in' with a TM30 and/or tries to do a 90-day report there. Since 90-day reports have to be done at the punters immigration office of domicile registration (where their extension was issued) I'm not sure if the guys mentioned earlier who were sent packing were simply being told to follow the correct procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 10 hours ago, mstevens said: A friend has been doing this for years with the same agent who is in cahoots with an Immigration officer. The fee (26,000 baht as I recall) is probably split between the agent and the Immigration officer making it a nice little earner for both parties. Personally, I would not consider doing this. Probably should only be considered by those who have no other options. If there was a crackdown or something brought it to the authorities attention then it could get embarrassing for anyone with such a visa. I was informed by a very credible source that the split isn't even close to 50-50. Was told most goes to the officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 11 hours ago, ubonjoe said: They are not exactly illegal but the applications are certainly fraudulent since the person getting the extension does not really have the 800k baht in the bank. The risk is if immigration had a crackdown on the offices working with those agents to do them. A person could end up with their extension being canceled. I find it mysterious that a fraudulent application is not technically illegal. The fraud in these cases is blatantly intentional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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