No prison for U.S. Army deserter Bergdahl, who Trump wanted dead

[farcanell]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

There's this 1980 Aussie movie and is etched in my minds since, it's called Breaker Morant, where rule 303 was applied as his punishment for desertion,  303 being the type of rifle that the firing squad were using at the time to depose of cowardly  deserters....

You need to watch the movie again... it wasn’t about desertion, but about alledged murder by soldiers

 

rule 303 was the understanding of how enemy combatants in khaki should be treated

[hdkane]

this guy probably deserved prison time...the mitigating factor in all of this was the treatment he received at the hands of muslim extremists...one interview i heard about him, with an army doctor, described the more than 500 small cuts he had on his body...the physician stated that the guy had been tortured to a degree that exceeded most captured soldiers in the vietnam war...

[MyFriend You]

42 minutes ago, hdkane said:

this guy probably deserved prison time...the mitigating factor in all of this was the treatment he received at the hands of muslim extremists...one interview i heard about him, with an army doctor, described the more than 500 small cuts he had on his body...the physician stated that the guy had been tortured to a degree that exceeded most captured soldiers in the vietnam war...

I don't give a rats ass how many times he was tortures, it's all a self inflicted wound in my opinion.  He shouldn't have deserted his unit, there are other ways to protest.  We knew he wouldn;t get any prison time, the issue was just too political - the Dishonorable Discharge is irresversable, all his benefits he would have recieved from being a soldier  wiped out, he cannot vote in any elections, no VA benefits, he cannot ever receive any social securty...........in essence, he's screwed the rest of his life, might as well immigrate to another country, as he is no longer looked upon as an American.

[Chip Allen]

The drive toward self-preservation is basic to human nature. Only a fool could think that a man's efforts to save his own life constituted "cowardice". Governments invent these kinds of artificial constructs as a means of controlling the population. "Do as we say, even to a fatal outcome, or we will make sure that you will suffer until you die."  I see no difference between this mindset and the practices of Communism or Facism.

[Skeptic7]

Good decision. I agree with the sentence and the judge. The man is only human...not a machine. He has suffered enough and will live the remainder of his life disgraced. Imprisoning him would serve no further purpose or benefit.

Case closed.

[Trouble]

10 hours ago, Srikcir said:

No doubt Bergdahl thanks POTUS Trump for his interference.

If Trump is unhappy with the results, maybe he should keep his military commander in chief thoughts to himself. It's clear Trump affected the sentencing of Bergdahl.

If the military trial judge was influenced by Trump's remarks, then he should also be courtmartialed.  No respectable officer would let comments made by anyone influence a decision, nor would most federal judges.  It is ridiculous to think that comments made on twitter or to the press by anyone including the president affect such court decisions.

 

Beregdahl while maybe not deserving the death penalty did put his fellow soldiers at risk and at least one soldier, Mark Allen, was shot in the head while searching for Bergdahl and is paralyzed. His wife testified at the trial. His light sentence is a shock to the military community. In my mind he deserved 3 to 7 years for deserting, which he admitted.  I do not question the judges sentence as I was not at the trial and did not hear all the testimony.  However, Bergdahl brought this about himself. His actions caused injury to others.  We only have his word that he was tortured and confined to a cage by the Taliban. In my mind as a retired member of the armed forces, he did not deserve to just walk free.  The big question is whether he will write a book and make a bundle of this.  I sincerely hope he is shunned by most the rest of his life.  

[IAMHERE]

How many months does it take for a Sargent, with his  time in grade, to earn $10,000 ?   He gets to keep all the money he was paid while with the enemy; all tax free. Plus he gets those quarters credited towards his Social Security account.

Edited November 5, 2017 by IAMHERE

[Srikcir]

9 hours ago, Trouble said:

No respectable officer would let comments made by anyone

President Trump isn't "anyone." He is the Commander-in-Chief which makes every military judge subordinate to him. Insubordination between officer ranks is not something taken lightly, especially with the POTUS.

Case in point was Trump's appointment of General McMaster as National Security Advisor. As McMaster intended to retain his rank as an active duty officer, he couldn't refuse the appointment unless he resigned his commission or faced charges of insubordination (consequences I'm sure Trump never considered). Trump is McMaster's military superior.

While Trump did not order that Bergdahl be put to death (which he may have had the power to do so), his opinion to sentencing Berdahl to death must have been disconcerting for the military judges to say the least. The judges did the best they could with Trump's interference and given Bergdahl's rights as a defendant for a fair trial (see US Constitution).

[Dagnabbit]

Now I have never been in the military so I am willing to be corrected by those with better understanding, but if I was planning to desert my unit, I could think of wiser ways to do so than wandering off from my very isolated post, surrounded by hostile communities and flag down a passing motorbike. Could it be the folly of leadership at the very top, that saw a group of ill prepared and under resourced men placed in a terrifying situation, led to a psychological breakdown in this guy which led him to behave so irrationally?

I would imagine something like that. It was irrational, he was probably safer where he was.

I think time served with the Taliban is punishment enough...


Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk

[Andaman Al]

On 11/4/2017 at 12:15 PM, Bigfarang1948 said:

You would have no problem finding volunteers to lynch this coward, traitor, deserter, not fit to be called a soldier. Trump is right, he deserves to die for what he did. I will supply the rope, put the noose over his sorry face and kick the trap door pin out of the latch.

Tough guy, you are !

 

I assume all the people on here calling for this soldiers death have never actually been in combat - ever. .....and if you come back and say you have ....you are lying...100%

 

It was this kind of mentality of the 'cowardly, traitor, deserter' that saw 100's of men and boys (yes boys aged 15-16) shot for cowardice in WW1. The reaction by these poor souls and also of Bergdahl was nothing more than an extreme reaction to what is possibly the most stressful environment you could be in. I have seen the supposed toughest of the tough turn to jelly and sit on the end of their bed wanting Mummy because they were so s**t scared of going back out on a mission again. Were they made fun of? Nope they were given camaraderie, reassurance and support - and they kept overcoming their most deep rooted human fears and emotions and went back out time after time.

 

Like Trump all of those screaming, coward and  traitor have ZERO idea what it is like to be in combat and if most of you were subject to a year, a month a day or even an hour of close quarter combat you would literally s**t your pants and cry "I want my Mommy'. This guy had clearly flipped and than to rub salt in the wound he steps out of the frying pan into the fire and gets tortured for 5 years and you lot want to hang him and any other demeaning thing you can think of because you listen to the other whazzock arm chair warriors on Fox. You do not deserve to enjoy the benefits of a free society that these people in the Military are willing to die for.

 

What double standards the USA has, and all this in a week where an Actor claimed to suffer PTSD because Kevin Spacey grabbed him in the crotch (and he gets the sympathy vote), and a guy worn down by battle stress and combat fatigue, who is tortured for 5 years is told 'it's all his own fault and he should be executed as a traitor'. The amazing thing about being in the military is not that soldiers should obey orders without question, it is that they willingly protect and defend a**holes that sit on forums questioning their actions in an operational environment. You have NO right!!

[Dap]

On 11/4/2017 at 7:42 AM, RuamRudy said:

Now I have never been in the military so I am willing to be corrected by those with better understanding, but if I was planning to desert my unit, I could think of wiser ways to do so than wandering off from my very isolated post, surrounded by hostile communities and flag down a passing motorbike. Could it be the folly of leadership at the very top, that saw a group of ill prepared and under resourced men placed in a terrifying situation, led to a psychological breakdown in this guy which led him to behave so irrationally?

 

Unfortunately a bit late but he could have used you on his defence team 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Dap

[Jim1000]

I am sure  he   didn't mean  to influence the court in any way but in this instance it seems his premature or is it imature verbal intervention meant that justice was just seen to be done .

 

[mitsubishi]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:54 AM, TunnelRat69 said:

I don't give a rats ass how many times he was tortures, it's all a self inflicted wound in my opinion.  He shouldn't have deserted his unit, there are other ways to protest.  We knew he wouldn;t get any prison time, the issue was just too political - the Dishonorable Discharge is irresversable, all his benefits he would have recieved from being a soldier  wiped out, he cannot vote in any elections, no VA benefits, he cannot ever receive any social securty...........in essence, he's screwed the rest of his life, might as well immigrate to another country, as he is no longer looked upon as an American.

Except he hasn't even been discharged dishonorably! The appellate court has to finalize that AFTER any appeal from that guy fails.

[MyFriend You]

10 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

How many months does it take for a Sargent, with his  time in grade, to earn $10,000 ?   He gets to keep all the money he was paid while with the enemy; all tax free. Plus he gets those quarters credited towards his Social Security account.

Once has Dishonorable Discharge is approved he will not be eligible for Social Security, Veterans medical benefits, or any other government social programs at all.  but I see a book deal or a Movie in the future..........where he will be shown as a victim, not a deserter.

Almost forgot, he was fined $1,000 a month for ten months.  If he is discharged before then, any and all pay due will be taken before he is discharged.

Edited November 5, 2017 by TunnelRat69

[MyFriend You]

2 hours ago, mitsubishi said:

Except he hasn't even been discharged dishonorably! The appellate court has to finalize that AFTER any appeal from that guy fails.

I wonder if the Appellate court can rule against the sitting judge and decide the punishment was too small and didn't fit the crime and make it more stringent?? - Military law is different than Civilian law, wonder if that is a possibility??   You read all the time where a sitting judge rules against a Jury and reverses their verdict.

[MyFriend You]

20 hours ago, Trouble said:

If the military trial judge was influenced by Trump's remarks, then he should also be courtmartialed.  No respectable officer would let comments made by anyone influence a decision, nor would most federal judges.  It is ridiculous to think that comments made on twitter or to the press by anyone including the president affect such court decisions.

 

Beregdahl while maybe not deserving the death penalty did put his fellow soldiers at risk and at least one soldier, Mark Allen, was shot in the head while searching for Bergdahl and is paralyzed. His wife testified at the trial. His light sentence is a shock to the military community. In my mind he deserved 3 to 7 years for deserting, which he admitted.  I do not question the judges sentence as I was not at the trial and did not hear all the testimony.  However, Bergdahl brought this about himself. His actions caused injury to others.  We only have his word that he was tortured and confined to a cage by the Taliban. In my mind as a retired member of the armed forces, he did not deserve to just walk free.  The big question is whether he will write a book and make a bundle of this.  I sincerely hope he is shunned by most the rest of his life.  

His Dishonorable Discharge and the Federal Conviction will haunt him for the rest of his life, it is not reversable - the Prosecutor wanted a Bad Conduct Discharge, which much lighter sentence and could be reversed, I am glad the Judge didn't listen to him.  I too think he should have been given at least:

  -  Six months in Leavenworth

  -  Reduced to the grade of Private E1

  -  Forfeiture of all pay and allowances

  -  Dishonorable Discharge upon completing the sentence

 

I spent some time as a Legal Clerk in the Army, saw folks in the Seventies get a lot more for a lot less, a guy in my platoon went to Long Binh Jail (LBJ)for refusing to take off his peace sign and FTA from his Helmet cover.  told his Company Commander "F that what are they going to do, send me to LBJ??"  They did with a Summary Court Martial, he got 60 days confinement, at least he got out of the field.

 

I believe in Karma, it will come to  Bergdahl in one way or another.

Edited November 5, 2017 by TunnelRat69

[Andaman Al]

31 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

His Dishonorable Discharge and the Federal Conviction will haunt him for the rest of his life

No, 5 years of torture by the Taliban will haunt him for the rest of his life.

 

32 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I spent some time as a Legal Clerk in the Army,

Front line stuff then. While you were putting documents in clear plastic bags, I and the likes of this soldier were putting the bits of friends we could find in clear plastic bags (we ran out of body bags!).

 

33 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I believe in Karma, it will come to  Bergdahl in one way or another.

Actually you might be surprised who karma is heading for--watch your back. Bergdahl was out of his mind, and clearly with your judgemental remarks you are also. Bergdahl needed help, do you think for a second he was able to consider the safety of those that may look for him if he did a runner? Do you even think that he would think people would look for him? He was suffering extreme duress and through his actions he then suffered more at the hands of the Taliban than you could handle in 5 lifetimes. I can tell you were not a member of any teeth arm unit. Most soldiers have more compassion for the enemy than you show for your fellow Brothers in Arms. And before you reply..............don't bother,  save yourself the wear and tear on your fingers and keyboard.

[Andaman Al]

21 hours ago, Trouble said:

If the military trial judge was influenced by Trump's remarks, then he should also be courtmartialed.  No respectable officer would let comments made by anyone influence a decision, nor would most federal judges.  It is ridiculous to think that comments made on twitter or to the press by anyone including the president affect such court decisions.

 

Beregdahl while maybe not deserving the death penalty did put his fellow soldiers at risk and at least one soldier, Mark Allen, was shot in the head while searching for Bergdahl and is paralyzed. His wife testified at the trial. His light sentence is a shock to the military community. In my mind he deserved 3 to 7 years for deserting, which he admitted.  I do not question the judges sentence as I was not at the trial and did not hear all the testimony.  However, Bergdahl brought this about himself. His actions caused injury to others.  We only have his word that he was tortured and confined to a cage by the Taliban. In my mind as a retired member of the armed forces, he did not deserve to just walk free.  The big question is whether he will write a book and make a bundle of this.  I sincerely hope he is shunned by most the rest of his life.  

Here is another that if you really have been in the military have never seen a day of combat in your life. If you had done any combat time you would never make such statements, and you would not make such disgraceful comments as:

Quote

I sincerely hope he is shunned by most the rest of his life.  

Perhaps it would be poetic justice if you were shunned!

 

There but for the grace of God go many a soldier that has been in combat. The overwhelming desire to run and hide and get away from the noise and the omnipresent danger, just that overwhelming need to be back in the arms of your loved one or your Mother has often only been suppressed by strong leadership and the camaraderie that is ONLY shared by brothers in arms. Nobody cares if you doubt his word that he was tortured at the hands of the Taliban, but I doubt that he was welcomed with open arms and given 3 meals a day and a nice bed. The chances are very likely that he was tortured by the Taliban, as all intelligence agencies and his medical state indicated.

 

He admits to abandoning his post after years of reflection and guilt and as a result of being in a secure and safe environment when he testified. The moment he ran in Afghanistan  he would not even have known his name. Why would any man with any ounce of sanity do a runner in Afghanistan? Where do you think you are going to go? If you want to do a runner you do it next time you are back in the states and disappear into a life and country you know and you are safe in. The guy flipped and the lack of compassion from guys that claim to be ex-military is beyond sickening. This would not have just 'happened', this would have been visible to his mates for weeks. His behaviour would have changed, he would have become irrational or unstable first. Where was the leadership, where was the back up? We used to look out for each other, if we saw those changes in someone we addressed it immediately and as commander of a unit, If i observed those changes in people I got them in and talking straight away and put in the necessary supervisory precautions to make sure the problem did not become a mountain of an issue.

 

Carry on and judge but be prepared to be judged yourself for doing so.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Grows up in a strange household, no television, only books. Likely pushed nihilistic ideologies by wacky parents Father grows beard, learns a Pashtun dialect, what is up with that?

 

Who flunks out of Coast Guard training? Then he decides to join the Army to subvert it from within or some do-gooder BS. Ends up deserting. Why was he let in to make up for recruiting shortfalls?

 

Obama was in a bad position if no real effort made to release him, truth is all the terrorists released in exchange for this slug returned to the battlefield. Obama, wingnut commie but not a fortune teller. Had he justly let Bergdahl rot he would have caught hell from both left and right. I still have enoug faith in the Generals and UCMJ to believe the sentence is just. Low level recruiters failed big time here. Put Bergdahl on the no fly list and take his passport before he gets an idea to go rejoin his friends in the Taliban.

 

He will probably end up rich from movie deals and become a leftist college Professor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

On 11/5/2017 at 8:00 PM, TunnelRat69 said:

His Dishonorable Discharge and the Federal Conviction will haunt him for the rest of his life, it is not reversable - the Prosecutor wanted a Bad Conduct Discharge, which much lighter sentence and could be reversed, I am glad the Judge didn't listen to him.  I too think he should have been given at least:

  -  Six months in Leavenworth

  -  Reduced to the grade of Private E1

  -  Forfeiture of all pay and allowances

  -  Dishonorable Discharge upon completing the sentence

 

I spent some time as a Legal Clerk in the Army, saw folks in the Seventies get a lot more for a lot less, a guy in my platoon went to Long Binh Jail (LBJ)for refusing to take off his peace sign and FTA from his Helmet cover.  told his Company Commander "F that what are they going to do, send me to LBJ??"  They did with a Summary Court Martial, he got 60 days confinement, at least he got out of the field.

 

I believe in Karma, it will come to  Bergdahl in one way or another.

I believe in Karma too. Look how Trump suffered because of his bone spur exemption. Clearly Karma is infallible.

[MyFriend You]

On 11/5/2017 at 8:40 PM, Andaman Al said:

No, 5 years of torture by the Taliban will haunt him for the rest of his life.

 

Front line stuff then. While you were putting documents in clear plastic bags, I and the likes of this soldier were putting the bits of friends we could find in clear plastic bags (we ran out of body bags!).

 

Actually you might be surprised who karma is heading for--watch your back. Bergdahl was out of his mind, and clearly with your judgemental remarks you are also. Bergdahl needed help, do you think for a second he was able to consider the safety of those that may look for him if he did a runner? Do you even think that he would think people would look for him? He was suffering extreme duress and through his actions he then suffered more at the hands of the Taliban than you could handle in 5 lifetimes. I can tell you were not a member of any teeth arm unit. Most soldiers have more compassion for the enemy than you show for your fellow Brothers in Arms. And before you reply..............don't bother,  save yourself the wear and tear on your fingers and keyboard.

I was shot, bayoneted, and blown up all in the same week, spent some time in  3rd Field Evac in Saigon recovering before going back to my unit in Chau Doc, on Cambodian Border 1969 so save your speculations.  44th Cbt Engineers.

[Andaman Al]

17 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I was shot, bayoneted, and blown up all in the same week, spent some time in  3rd Field Evac in Saigon recovering before going back to my unit in Chau Doc, on Cambodian Border 1969 so save your speculations.  44th Cbt Engineers.

I assume with the disdain you have for your fellow soldiers that was just from your own side. The US were certainly losing to have army legal clerks being bayoneted. No speculations, just observations ....of horrid disdain for fellow soldiers. If you had been through what you say then it makes your comments concerning Bergdahl all the more disgraceful. Did being shot, bayoneted and blown up make you slightly anxious around loud noises or sharp knives for a bit? Did it make you a bit more concerned the next time you went in to battle? Can you not relate for 1 second to what Bergdahl was clearly going through? seems you learned nothing and worst still feel nothing. Thank you for your service.

[craigt3365]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:58 AM, brewsterbudgen said:

Except that's not true.

 

https://serialpodcast.org/posts/2016/10/was-anyone-killed-looking-for-bowe-bergdahl-some-hard-evidence-at-long-last

Seems 6 soldiers were killed while looking for him.  One reason treason should be dealt with harshly.

 

http://time.com/2809352/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-army-taliban/

The 6 U.S. Soldiers Who Died Searching for Bowe Bergdahl

[brewsterbudgen]

Seems 6 soldiers were killed while looking for him.  One reason treason should be dealt with harshly.
 
http://time.com/2809352/bowe-bergdahl-deserter-army-taliban/

The 6 U.S. Soldiers Who Died Searching for Bowe Bergdahl

Except that the official military report says they didn't.

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[craigt3365]

19 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Except that the official military report says they didn't.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

From what I've read, they didn't report this at the time, but according to this news report, they are now.  Also, from that article:

Quote

The diversion of these men and their units to the hunt for Bergdahl thinned the ranks of U.S. troops elsewhere in the region, contributing to several more American KIAs, U.S. soldiers who were there at the time believe.

 

He should spend years in jail.

[ilostmypassword]

9 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

I was shot, bayoneted, and blown up all in the same week, spent some time in  3rd Field Evac in Saigon recovering before going back to my unit in Chau Doc, on Cambodian Border 1969 so save your speculations.  44th Cbt Engineers.

And this proves what, exactly?

[MyFriend You]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

And this proves what, exactly?

I was answerin someone else