Gunman opens fire at Texas church, killing at least 20

[webfact]

Gunman opens fire at Texas church, killing at least 20

By Lisa Maria Garza

 

The area around a site of a mass shooting is taped out in Sutherland Springs, Texas, U.S., November 5, 2017, in this picture obtained via social media. MAX MASSEY/ KSAT 12/via REUTERS

 

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS, Texas (Reuters) - A gunman entered a small church in southeast Texas and opened fire, killing at least 20 worshippers and wounding many others in the latest in a series of mass shootings that have plagued the United States, according to authorities and media reports.

 

The shooting occurred at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs in Wilson County, about 40 miles (65 km) east of San Antonio. The suspect fled the scene in a vehicle but was killed about 12 miles away in neighbouring Guadalupe County, according to local media and Sergeant Robert Murphy, a spokesman for the Guadalupe County Sheriff's Office said.

 

Neither the suspect's identity nor any possible motive were disclosed by authorities.

 

Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackitt told CNN that at least 20 people were killed. Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick told Fox News that at least 25 people were killed and 30 injured.

 

The 14-year-old daughter of pastor Frank Pomeroy was killed, the family told several television stations.

 

The massacre comes just weeks after a sniper killed 58 people at an outdoor concert in Las Vegas, the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history. The shootings have stirred a years-long national debate over whether easy access to firearms was contributing to the trend.

 

President Donald Trump said he was monitoring the situation while in Japan on a 12-day Asian trip.

 

"May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene," he said on Twitter.

 

According to the witnesses, about 20 shots rang out about 11:30 a.m. (1730 GMT) during the church services, according to media reports. It was unclear how many worshippers were inside at the time.

 

After the shooting, the suspect sped away in a car and was soon cornered by sheriff's deputies just outside of Wilson County in Guadalupe County, Wiley told Reuters. He did not know if the shooter died of a self-inflicted gunshot or was killed by deputies.

 

The First Baptist Church is a fixture in Sutherland Springs, an area home to fewer than 900 residents, according the 2010 Census.

 

The white-painted, one-story structure features a small steeple and a single front door. On Sunday, the Lone Star flag of Texas was flying alongside the U.S. flag and a third, unidentified banner.

 

Inside there is a small raised platform on which members sang worship songs to guitar music and the pastor delivered a weekly sermon, according to videos posted on YouTube. In one of the clips, a few dozen people, including young children, can be seen sitting in the wooden pews.

 

The shooting occurred on the eighth anniversary of the Nov. 5, 2009 massacre of 13 people at the Fort Hood Army base in central Texas. A U.S. Army Medical Corps psychiatrist convicted of the killings is now awaiting execution.

 

In 2015, a white gunman killed nine black parishioners at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. The gunman was sentenced to death for the racially motivated attack.

 

(Additional reporting by Bernie Woodall in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, and Jon Herskovitz in Austin, Texas; Writing by Frank McGurty; Editing by Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-06

[Samui Bodoh]

Yet another act of terrorism utilizing widely available weaponry. 

 

But, it likely won't be called 'terrorism' if it doesn't involve a Muslim person.

 

And, it is "too soon" to talk about gun control.

 

Americans, through their inaction, have decided that these kinds of mass shootings are okay. I truly do not understand what kind of society believes that. Respectfully, Americans and their leaders need to have a good, long look in the mirror. 

 

How many more mass shootings until something changes?

 

[ezzra]

What da hell can you say when you read news like this? numb, shocked, disbelief, anger, where do you start, the thing is that

this type of senseless killings is here to stay and it's gone beyond the factors of religion, left-right parity or who's right who's wrong, this is killing for the sake of killing....

[darksidedog]

When the Americans were drawing up their amendment to the constitution, that allowed people to bear arms, I wonder if they ever thought for one second about how much blood would be on their hands. It is a tragedy that such incidents are becoming so common, and yet they country can't seem to wake up to the fact it has a problem.

Gun control should be right up there at the top of the list of priorities and to hell with the NRA.

[alocacoc]

Check Facebook post from the church, may 1st 2016.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Scott]

A post with unsubstantiated information has been removed.   Please wait for a link from an appropriate source.  

[InMyShadow]

It's going to be big news if a week goes by without a mass murder!

Why is America such a sick society.?

[Credo]

I knew that when the President sent condolences and prayers so quickly, it could not be a congregation of minorities.   

 

The news is reporting the shooter is ex-military.   

 

My thoughts are with the victims, their families and the neighbors.   This is a situation which will effect the entire town for  a long time.   

 

[Carib]

Why is this part of american culture still breaking news? 

[4evermaat]

"Remember remember the 5th of November" .... Guy Fawkes day. Coincidence?


Sent from my ASUS_Z010D using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Scott]

Here's a link about the shooter:

 

https://heavy.com/news/2017/11/devin-kelley-p-sutherland-springs-church-shooter-patrick-kelly/

[JCauto]

Thoughts and prayers!

Too soon to discuss gun control in light of these terrible events.

Good guy with a gun can prevent this! If only Texas had laws allowing that...

Mental illness! (i.e., white guy)

[alocacoc]

I hope it's ok to post this link. How's that possible? A Facebook employee behind the post? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=982792345143820&id=146026018820461

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[impulse]

1 minute ago, JCauto said:

Thoughts and prayers!

Too soon to discuss gun control in light of these terrible events.

Good guy with a gun can prevent this! If only Texas had laws allowing that...

Mental illness! (i.e., white guy)

 

May not have prevented it, but a good guy with a gun put a stop to it..

 

• As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged the suspect. The suspect dropped his Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting-latest/index.html

[edwinchester]

"May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene," he said on Twitter.

 

Well he certainly wasn't with them when some nutjob pulled the trigger, or maybe he was being mysterious.

Wonder how long it will be before we hear Trump defending this guy's, and anyone else for that matter, right to 'bear arms'?

[JCauto]

Just now, impulse said:

 

May not have prevented it, but a good guy with a gun put a stop to it..

 

• As he exited the church, a local resident grabbed his rifle and engaged the suspect. The suspect dropped his Ruger AR assault-type rifle and fled from the church.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting-latest/index.html

So which works better? Not having assault rifles easily available for the public to access or having them so that the good guys can get the bad guys?

Well, the score on this one is Bad Guys 20 (or so), Good Guys 1. Win!

[craigt3365]

Guns are a big problem, no doubt.  But as shown by the nut with the truck in NYC, these people are just crazy.  Acid attacks, truck attacks, etc.  How do you stop these types of crimes?  Not easy....we live in a world now changed forever.

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, JCauto said:

So which works better? Not having assault rifles easily available for the public to access or having them so that the good guys can get the bad guys?

Well, the score on this one is Bad Guys 20 (or so), Good Guys 1. Win!

 

If only the first choice were even possible.  Pandora's box is open already.  Look at Mexico, just a couple hours down the road from Sutherland Springs.  Extremely tight gun control, yet that doesn't stop the bad guys... 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by impulse

[Credo]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If only the first choice were even possible.  Pandora's box is open already.  Look at Mexico, just a couple hours down the road from Sutherland Springs.  Extremely tight gun control, yet that doesn't stop the bad guys... 

 

Well, then the obvious answer is not going to Church....or to music festivals.

 

[JCauto]

13 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

If only the first choice were even possible.  Pandora's box is open already.  Look at Mexico, just a couple hours down the road from Sutherland Springs.  Extremely tight gun control, yet that doesn't stop the bad guys... 

 

Yes, everyone being heavily armed with an assault rifle, that sounds great! Look at Canada, which is far more similar in socio-economics, ethnic makeup and culture than Mexico, which is a developing country that speaks Spanish. 

 

Why don't all you gun nuts go to war zones where your dreams can be reality? 

[isaanbanhou]

The parishioners of The First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Texas have already been accepted to the Kingdom of God. 

   

They are the victims of a man tormented to the point of insane behaviour. To immediately blame the 2nd Ammendmant right to keep and bear arms is a sad commentary of our times. The Republic is under attack from  ISIS at this very moment. A well armed militia is the true backbone of our defense in this assault.  Those that want to trample on the constitution are the ones with blood on their hands. 

 

God Bless America

[Carib]

6 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

The parishioners of The First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Texas have already been accepted to the Kingdom of God. 

   

They are the victims of a man tormented to the point of insane behaviour. To immediately blame the 2nd Ammendmant right to keep and bear arms is a sad commentary of our times. The Republic is under attack from  ISIS at this very moment. A well armed militia is the true backbone of our defense in this assault.  Those that want to trample on the constitution are the ones with blood on their hands. 

 

God Bless America

Brainwashed korean style, just a different program loaded. 

[Credo]

18 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

The parishioners of The First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Texas have already been accepted to the Kingdom of God. 

   

They are the victims of a man tormented to the point of insane behaviour. To immediately blame the 2nd Ammendmant right to keep and bear arms is a sad commentary of our times. The Republic is under attack from  ISIS at this very moment. A well armed militia is the true backbone of our defense in this assault.  Those that want to trample on the constitution are the ones with blood on their hands. 

 

God Bless America

I am pretty sure that is a WELL REGULATED MILITIA.

 

 

[carmine]

And so the massacres continue.  I doubt it will be long till the next tragedy and sadly nothing will change with America's barmy gun laws.  The lack of control is ludicrous and having spoken to numerous US citizens regarding the gun laws the future looks equally bleak.  

 

They can't even look at the likes of Canada, next door or Australia and wake up and smell the coffee.  Very sad indeed.

 

I also believe that the NRA contributed some $30m to the Trump campaign fund so he'll be doing nothing either.

[MJKT2014]

52 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

How do you stop these types of crimes? 

Everywhere else in the world restricts access to guns. Seems to work.

[wwest5829]

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

When the Americans were drawing up their amendment to the constitution, that allowed people to bear arms, I wonder if they ever thought for one second about how much blood would be on their hands. It is a tragedy that such incidents are becoming so common, and yet they country can't seem to wake up to the fact it has a problem.

Gun control should be right up there at the top of the list of priorities and to hell with the NRA.

The problem is the Supreme Courts decision on what the 2nd Amendment means. Like the Dred Scott decision, I hope the decisions allowing unrestricted gun ownership will be changed. For those not familiar with the 2nd Amendment wording, it begins..."A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Perhaps enforcing the Amendment more closely to its intent would help address this issue. For the record, I am an American, a gun owner and have held a Concealed Deadly Weapon License. Firmly support ownership, after a background check and a required training course. Weapons limited for hunting, pistol for home defense. Firmly oppose ownership of assault type weapons, silencers, devices to cause automatic firing.

[carmine]

Just now, MJKT2014 said:

Everywhere else in the world restricts access to guns. Seems to work.

Thats just it isn't it.  Its as simple as that as is proven.

 

The real insanity is what appears to be the majority of American citizens attitude towards it.  Its <deleted> mental they way they defend their gun laws, just mental.

[JCauto]

27 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

The parishioners of The First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Texas have already been accepted to the Kingdom of God. 

   

They are the victims of a man tormented to the point of insane behaviour. To immediately blame the 2nd Ammendmant right to keep and bear arms is a sad commentary of our times. The Republic is under attack from  ISIS at this very moment. A well armed militia is the true backbone of our defense in this assault.  Those that want to trample on the constitution are the ones with blood on their hands. 

 

God Bless America

So how well have them well armed militia been doing in the fight against ISIS? How many victories have they achieved, how many terrorists have they killed? 

You don't think the military and police are doing a better job at that?

 

As pointed out by a previous post, the actual wording was not "well armed militia", it was "well regulated militia". So why are you against the Constitution? Why don't you want to allow proper regulation of these militia and require membership within such organizations prior to getting guns?

[Peterw42]

27 minutes ago, isaanbanhou said:

The parishioners of The First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs Texas have already been accepted to the Kingdom of God. 

   

They are the victims of a man tormented to the point of insane behaviour. To immediately blame the 2nd Ammendmant right to keep and bear arms is a sad commentary of our times. The Republic is under attack from  ISIS at this very moment. A well armed militia is the true backbone of our defense in this assault.  Those that want to trample on the constitution are the ones with blood on their hands. 

 

God Bless America

America already has a well regulated militia, that would be the army and the police, as per the 2nd amendment. Do you have any specific examples of the armed population, other than the militia, stopping ISIS ?

[edwinchester]

4 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

The problem is the Supreme Courts decision on what the 2nd Amendment means. Like the Dred Scott decision, I hope the decisions allowing unrestricted gun ownership will be changed. For those not familiar with the 2nd Amendment wording, it begins..."A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Perhaps enforcing the Amendment more closely to its intent would help address this issue. For the record, I am an American, a gun owner and have held a Concealed Deadly Weapon License. Firmly support ownership, after a background check and a required training course. Weapons limited for hunting, pistol for home defense. Firmly oppose ownership of assault type weapons, silencers, devices to cause automatic firing.

Pretty simple solution....just change the law.....it's called an amendment!