Avoid 220b ATM Fee

[stevymac]

Know of any money exchangers good ones near ratchada 7. Good exchange rates for example? Cheers in advance. Nationwide are charging me like 10 quid or more everytime I take out 20k baht. Rip off


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[wimpy]

21 minutes ago, misterphil said:

Ive done it before, these clowns haven't, so they don't know what they are talking about. 

I would love to know the exchange rate you received and the date the transaction took place, when your credit card was billed as a purchase and not a cash advance.

[stevymac]

Can I take my atm card to super rich and get money out avoiding any fee? Sorry to sound stupid never done it before


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[misterphil]

Just now, stevymac said:

Can I take my atm card to super rich and get money out avoiding any fee? Sorry to sound stupid never done it before


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Yes

[JohnC]

A number of posts here are a bit out of date now. Transferwise from UK now charge .55% plus £1.50 handling charge.

Aeon have four machines in Pattaya: 

Tesco Lotus South on the first floor next to MK

Big C Extra - Pattaya Klang in the passage way leading to the toilets

Tesco Lotus North - two machines at the bank , ground floor. 

 

I used the one in Tesco Lotus South yesterday, withdrew 10,000 baht, charge 150 baht.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, misterphil said:

Yeah try it and see for yourself. If I have to sift through bank statements to prove these clowns wrong I will lol. 

While we wait for you to sift through your bank credit card/bank statements for your proof, below are some are some partial cut & pastes from one of my credit card statements when I did a cash advance for $1975USD in baht in Feb 2017 at a Krungsri Bank. 

 

Notice in the statement summary (image one) the cash advance amount is reflected in the cash advance category; not the purchase category.

 

Now, how your credit credit/bank statement may describes a cash advance or purchase in the "detailed description" area of the statement is up to that bank.  Many times it just describes "where" the transaction occurred along with some alpha/numeric coding (specifically a Merchant Category Code) which identifies it as a cash advance or kind of purchase. 

 

The detailed description may not say whether it was a cash advance or purchase like for my cash advance where  the transaction is not identified as cash advance or purchase, but just the location of the transaction which was actually a Krungsri Bank branch in a Tesco Lotus mall. However, the numeric coding associated with the transaction tells your bank what kind of transaction it was...purchase...cash advance...etc.   And whether your bank shows the alpha/numeric coding on your statement is purely up to your bank (see image two).   

 

When reviewing you statements be sure to look at the whole statement, summary, details, etc., because a cash advance may not be described as a cash advance in the detailed area as discussed above but in another area on the statement like the summary area, but the underlying alpha/numeric coding tagging along with the transaction tells your bank what kind of transaction it was.   

 

Looking forward to your proof....good sifting.

 

Image One

 

 

Image Two

 

 

[wimpy]

I suppose it is possible that some money changers are processing the transaction as a purchase. If they are, you can bet they are reflecting the 3-4% fees, the CC companies are charging them, in a poorer exchange rate.

[Pib]

45 minutes ago, wimpy said:

I suppose it is possible that some money changers are processing the transaction as a purchase. If they are, you can bet they are reflecting the 3-4% fees, the CC companies are charging them, in a poorer exchange rate.

It's possible.  However, if they are they are violating Visa/Mastercard rules regarding correct identification of a transaction...they are specifically not using the correct the Merchant Category Code (MCC) as talked in the post below.   That could get the money exchanger blocked by Visa/Mastercard because of MCC misidentification and might even be considered a form of fraudulent transaction intentionally caused by money exchanger.  I'm not sure a money exchanger would want to risk that....he would lose business by not being able to process card payments/transactions...probably would not make the local bank processing card transactions into the Visa/Mastercard network very happy either.    And of course if the card-issuing bank found out they wouldn't be happy either because they are potentially losing out on cash advance related fees and higher interest rates. 

 

 

 

[speedtripler]

2 hours ago, stevymac said:

Know of any money exchangers good ones near ratchada 7. Good exchange rates for example? Cheers in advance. Nationwide are charging me like 10 quid or more everytime I take out 20k baht. Rip off


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Go into the counter and take £5000 and pay the same fee as 1 atm withdrawal 

[speedtripler]

On 28/01/2018 at 9:52 AM, Pib said:

Getting a cash transaction (i.e., getting cash or cash-equivalent issued at counter, ATM, etc) on a "credit" card and it's processed as a "cash advance" when it hits your credit card account.   Now the layman's description hitting your credit card account it may just say "X-amount for something at a certain location" but the underlying network coding identifies the transaction as a cash advance. 

 

Then it's handled in accordance with the card-issuing bank policy for cash advances versus a purchases.   "Most" card-issuing banks charge an upfront cash advance fee which seems to usually be 3% but some may do a flat fee and/or percentage fee.....and a few do not charge an upfront fee or foreign transaction fees like a couple of  credit cards I have which do not charge a cash advance fee of any kind...flat or percentage fee.   

 

For a couple of years I used these credit cards to do counter cash advances at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Banks for up to $2,000 per day/transaction which was the limit set by the card-issuing bank for cash advances....try to get a baht more than $2,000 worth and the transaction would reject.  However for purchases the limit per purchase was much higher. 

 

To avoid any interest from immediately beginning to accrue I prepaid the cash advance or paid it same day I did the cash advance.   Did this at least a dozen times since it allowed me to get $2,000 per withdrawal versus my debit cards which had a $1,000 daily limit plus use of the credit card prevent the Thai bank from getting their ripoff Bt220 fee.  But Thai bank now are beginning to charge a Bt200 fee even for counter withdrawals...Krungsri started around Oct 17 or so.

 

Go to the website of your card-issuing bank to review the terms and conditions for a cash advance associated with your credit card....and you may have to contacting them directly to determine what the daily cash advance limit is as it will probably be different from the daily purchase limit.   And maybe just surf to a couple of website that issue credit cards and review their policies for cash advances....you'll see the fees associated with a cash advance is difference from a purchase.

 

From good ol' Wikipedia giving an layman's description of a credit card cash advance.

 

I usually have more important thing to focus on so I pre load my credit card with  100k thb and use it until its gone (then reload) 

 

It ensures I never go overdue or incrue late payment fees or shocking interest rates etc 

 

Haven't figured out their rate for foreign currency purchases yet though 

 

If I buy an item online for $500 they usually deduct the Thai equivalent of about $520-525

 

 I have not had time yet to research why 

 

[Barnabe]

A lot of people on this thread seem to be forgetting that if they withdraw money using a foreign debit or credit card:

- you will most likely get charged a "withdrawal fee", this can be fixed like $3 or a percentage like 1-3%

- your bank might also charge you a "foreign currency conversion fee" for withdrawing in a different currency than yours, can also be fixed or a percentage

- the bank will give you a almost completely arbitrary foreign exchange rate, which at the very least is 3% more than the current market rate; I've seen more than 5% being charged

 

Add it all up, you might be losing up to 15% in fees.

 

1) NEVER withdraw money using your foreign card if you're not sure if it works like the above - if you don't know, then you're being ripped off

2) NEVER accept the ATM's conversion rate; it can also charge you upwards of 10%

3) NEVER use a foreign exchange service like the ones in airports, shops, etc. They usually charge you around or above 10%.

 

Bear in mind that the banks and foreign exchange services that advertise "no fees" are usually the ones that rip you off the most in the exchange rate difference (rate they offer = < 90% market exchange rate).

 

If you have any doubts on these words, make the calculations yourself. Download an app called "XE currency", which updates with fresh market rates every minute for all the currencies in the world, go to the ATM, forex shop, bank, etc, and compare the rate they are giving you with the rate in the app - at the very least they are charging you 5%, most likely 10%+.

 

If you want to get the most out of your money, you have a few options:

- if you're from the UK, get a Halifax Clarity credit card. No fee for cash advance or ATM withdrawal, no fx conversion fee, uses the daily market rate for fx conversion. Negatives are - you still eat the 220 baht fee for withdrawals, and you pay a small interest on the cash advances; this can be avoided by transferring money from your UK debit account to the Halifax credit card account right after (or even before) withdrawing using the credit card.

- if you're not from the UK, and if you want to avoid the 220 baht fee, get a local Thai bank account, and use Transferwise to get the money from overseas. You will only pay 1%, which is the best rate you can get.

 

Thanks for the tips on withdrawing from Bank of China ATM, I will use that with my Clarity card, and hope it works! 220 baht is a ripoff, so I try to withdraw 20.000 baht at a time, which puts the fee at around 1.1% - still much better than the other options.

[jackdd]

If you withdraw money using your credit card at a money exchanger, does the money exchanger bill the card in THB or in it's native currency?

If the money exchanger is not charging any fee from you to withdraw money (and if he is charging the card in THB), how do they make money from this transaction then?

People said that some banks don't charge a fee when doing a cash advance over the counter, how do these banks do money on the transaction then (i  assume they charge the card in THB)? And which banks do not charge fees? Somebody posted the Krungsri PDF which only stated fees for withdrawing money over the counter using a VISA card, but no fee for Mastercard. Did anybody try withdrawing money with a Mastercard?

[Pib]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

If you withdraw money using your credit card at a money exchanger, does the money exchanger bill the card in THB or in it's native currency?

If the money exchanger is not charging any fee from you to withdraw money (and if he is charging the card in THB), how do they make money from this transaction then?

People said that some banks don't charge a fee when doing a cash advance over the counter, how do these banks do money on the transaction then (i  assume they charge the card in THB)? And which banks do not charge fees? Somebody posted the Krungsri PDF which only stated fees for withdrawing money over the counter using a VISA card, but no fee for Mastercard. Did anybody try withdrawing money with a Mastercard?

Even when the card-issuing bank (a.k.a., Issurer) does not charge any fees for a foreign transaction or cash advance, the bank (or money exchanger)  issuing out the cash (a.k.a., Acquirer) manually (i.e., over the counter) or via ATM collect an "interchange fee" from the card-issuing bank.  It's the reverse of what happens for a purchase transaction where the cards-issuing bank collect an interchange fee from the merchant processing the purchase transaction.  

 

Anyway, see below from the Visa website listing the international interchange fee for a manual or ATM cash disbursement.  The fee is paid from the card-issuing bank (the Issurer in the chart) to the entity handing out the cash to you (i.e, the Acquirer in the chart).    For an over the counter cash disbursement your card-issuing bank would pay the bank giving you the money a fee of $1.75 plus 0.33% of the amount handed out.   For a Bt30K disbursement that fee would amount to approx Bt155....not a bad little profit.

 

For money being disbursed from an ATM the interchange fee amount depends on whether the ATM is charging an Access/User Fee like the Thai bank ATM fee of Bt220 for foreign cards.   Since Thai banks charge an ATM access/user fee usually Bt220 (or Bt150 for AEON ATMs) they are collecting that fee "plus" a $0.50 + 0.15% fee which would work out to approx Bt280 for a Bt30K ATM withdrawal.   A Bt280 is definitely a nice little profit....Thai bank's are very greedy since they charge an Access/User fee "on-top" of the interchange fee they earn.

 

The interchange fee is "not" charged directly to your account....such a fee does not hit your account as the interchange fee is purely between the parties/banks on both ends.  However, it's common for the card-issuing bank to recover this fee through the foreign transaction fee and/or cash advance fee that is charged directly to you. 

 

If your card-issuing bank does not charge a foreign transaction fee/cash advance fee (the great majority do, but some don't) then you are escaping fee-free.   But  don't worry, your card-issuing bankster is not going to go hungry because in the bank's total fee structure for all fees they charge for all their products/services they are making a nice profit.   That is, some products/services are fee-free while others are not.

 

 

[jackdd]

40 minutes ago, Pib said:

[...]

Thank your for the explanation

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the replies have been removed. 

[BaanOz]

On 08/11/2017 at 1:30 AM, AboutThaim said:

I calculated it used to cost me about $40 to withdraw about $500 AUD from any ATM here.  That included the fee charged by my Oz bank, conversion to baht and ATM fee.  I started using Transfer Wise, opened an account (Kasikorn) and got a debit card.  Now the only charge is for transfer from Oz to my Thai account which is less than $10 for my pension.  Transfer Wise gives the market rate for exchange.  If my card is used away from the local area there is a 15 baht charge.

I did have a problem opening a local account until I told them I had to have money in a Thai bank to apply for an extension (as advised by the local IO). 

So if you are here to stay open an account and get a card.

This is the only post in this thread mentioning an amazingly brilliant idea to avoid the B220 fee and I'm wondering why people don't do this, am I missing something?

Why not open a local account and transfer money using a no fee/good exchange rate international transfer from your "home country" bank.

Hide away your "home country" debit card and use the local ATM card. If anything happens to the local card, much easier to sort out.

Isn't this the best way to avoid that fee?

[jackdd]

20 minutes ago, BaanOz said:

This is the only post in this thread mentioning an amazingly brilliant idea to avoid the B220 fee and I'm wondering why people don't do this, am I missing something?

Why not open a local account and transfer money using a no fee/good exchange rate international transfer from your "home country" bank.

Hide away your "home country" debit card and use the local ATM card. If anything happens to the local card, much easier to sort out.

Isn't this the best way to avoid that fee?

Of course that's the best way (take cash and exchange at superrich gives the best rates, transfer by transferwise the second best rates)

This solution was already mentioned on page 1 of this thread, even if not explained in detail

But if somebody makes holiday in Thailand for 2 weeks that's not an option for him.

[VBF]

8 hours ago, jackdd said:

Of course that's the best way (take cash and exchange at superrich gives the best rates, transfer by transferwise the second best rates)

This solution was already mentioned on page 1 of this thread, even if not explained in detail

But if somebody makes holiday in Thailand for 2 weeks that's not an option for him.

Quite honestly, if you're staying somewhere with a secure in-room safe, for 2 weeks, cash is the best option, accompanied by ATM cards for unforeseen circumstances. I visit for 2-3 months at a time so as I do have a SCB account, I send UKP to that (better rate if you send UKP and let SCB do the conversion than sending Baht); I bring cash and cards as I said. I HOPE this will cover all eventualities. 

[watcharacters]

On 11/8/2017 at 8:30 AM, AboutThaim said:

I calculated it used to cost me about $40 to withdraw about $500 AUD from any ATM here.  That included the fee charged by my Oz bank, conversion to baht and ATM fee.  I started using Transfer Wise, opened an account (Kasikorn) and got a debit card.  Now the only charge is for transfer from Oz to my Thai account which is less than $10 for my pension.  Transfer Wise gives the market rate for exchange.  If my card is used away from the local area there is a 15 baht charge.

I did have a problem opening a local account until I told them I had to have money in a Thai bank to apply for an extension (as advised by the local IO). 

So if you are here to stay open an account and get a card.

 

 

 

That scenario smacks of pure insanity.     $40 fee to get $500.     And the banks manage that without using guns.    Talk about criminal..