Time for Prayut to relinquish absolute power

[robblok]

1 minute ago, jayboy said:

Your middle class friends are deluded.There is a massive skew of Thailand state expenditure towards the urban middle class across the board - health facilities, education, infrastructure - at the expense of the majority.Any attempt to redress this is called "populism" and partly explains the insane rage against politicians who consider the interests of all Thais not just the better off.It also explains the weird alliance between the urban middle class and the democracy hating old elites.The bleating of the Sino Thai middle class about their taxes being spent on the undeserving poor is therefore both dishonest and hypocritical.It's not as though the middle class are punctilious tax payers anyway except those who by virtue of PAYE have no choice.More often than not anyway they are classic tax evaders hiding assets and income.

I posted graphs here before backed up with proof from the national budget most of the tax money is generated in BKK and not spend there. My friends are not deluded at all. If anyone is deluded its you.

 

See how much tax is generated in BKK in 2010 60,5% , 2011 64,4%, 2012 63,3%  That much of the total budget is certainly not spend on BKK and its middle class just look at how little the others got then look at the huge rice programs costs and you can see that they were right. 

 

Nobody likes paying taxes and to act like the poor would avoid them any less than the bkk middle class is crazy as are most of your posts. 

 

 

[GarryP]

I would love to see Prayuth head a party run by the boys in green leading into the elections. And then get his sorry little arse handed to him on a plate, as the voting public thumb their noses at him and vote for the other parties. He would be but a fart in a windstorm, with his name disappearing into the annals of obscurity.  It would be a massive come down for the egotistical bully.  

[Media1]

He is not his Majesty. His not even a faint shadow. 

He needs shuffle off home with his family and read about a bright future which he never contribute to.

[AGareth2]

5 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I would love to see Prayuth head a party run by the boys in green leading into the elections. And then get his sorry little arse handed to him on a plate, as the voting public thumb their noses at him and vote for the other parties. He would be but a fart in a windstorm, with his name disappearing into the annals of obscurity.  It would be a massive come down for the egotistical bully.  

you can always rig an election

[Media1]

1 hour ago, Denim said:

The rigged election that will see a new military political party come to power democratically in a not so surprising bid to stay on power.

 

No that won't happen the odds are to large

[Eric Loh]

1 minute ago, AGareth2 said:

you can always rig an election

Or he can force a coalition again and sneak in by the backdoor to be PM. But this time, the resistance will be different for sure. 

[jayboy]

33 minutes ago, robblok said:

I posted graphs here before backed up with proof from the national budget most of the tax money is generated in BKK and not spend there. My friends are not deluded at all. If anyone is deluded its you.

 

See how much tax is generated in BKK in 2010 60,5% , 2011 64,4%, 2012 63,3%  That much of the total budget is certainly not spend on BKK and its middle class just look at how little the others got then look at the huge rice programs costs and you can see that they were right. 

 

Nobody likes paying taxes and to act like the poor would avoid them any less than the bkk middle class is crazy as are most of your posts. 

 

 

I wont comment on your slightly childish post but clearly you don't seem able to interpret statistics.

 

For those interested in the facts, this World Bank report summarises the position succinctly.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report

 

 

Money quote:

• Economic growth and a corresponding improvement in access to and quality of public services has been concentrated in Bangkok and the central region, leaving significant deficiencies in other parts of the country including the North and Northeast and contributing to unequal human development outcomes. Addressing these issues will be a key step in Thailand's continued development towards high-income country status.  
• Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures.

Edited November 7, 2017 by jayboy

[GarryP]

26 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

you can always rig an election

Damn! I forgot that. He would probably not dare run if he could not guarantee a win for himself.  

[yellowboat]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

I bet you that the Junta will be here at least another 4 years if not longer.

Sadly, that is a be you would probably win, but it would cost the average Thai opportunity and development.  The average Thai would be better off learning Chinese, moving to China, and return to Thailand to retire. 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I wont comment on your slightly childish post but clearly you don't seem able to interpret statistics.

 

For those interested in the facts, this World Bank report summarises the position succinctly.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report

 

 

Money quote:

• Economic growth and a corresponding improvement in access to and quality of public services has been concentrated in Bangkok and the central region, leaving significant deficiencies in other parts of the country including the North and Northeast and contributing to unequal human development outcomes. Addressing these issues will be a key step in Thailand's continued development towards high-income country status.  
• Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures.

I seen that about the world bank too.. but 72% of public expenditures is not 72% of the fiscal budget while bangkok rakes in around 63% on avarage of the total budget taxes. 

 

You don't seem to be able to understand the difference between the total fiscal budget and public expenditures something totally different.  You should really educate yourself a bit more. My figures came straight out of the Thai fiscal budget while yours are fromt he world bank without much backing up for me to check, also your figures are about something totally different public expenditures is PART of the budget. Nice try to make things look different then they are. 

[robblok]

40 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I would love to see Prayuth head a party run by the boys in green leading into the elections. And then get his sorry little arse handed to him on a plate, as the voting public thumb their noses at him and vote for the other parties. He would be but a fart in a windstorm, with his name disappearing into the annals of obscurity.  It would be a massive come down for the egotistical bully.  

It would be nice to see his ego deflated fun to watch for sure.

[jayboy]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I seen that about the world bank too.. but 72% of public expenditures is not 72% of the fiscal budget while bangkok rakes in around 63% on avarage of the total budget taxes. 

 

You don't seem to be able to understand the difference between the total fiscal budget and public expenditures something totally different.  You should really educate yourself a bit more. My figures came straight out of the Thai fiscal budget while yours are fromt he world bank without much backing up for me to check, also your figures are about something totally different public expenditures is PART of the budget. Nice try to make things look different then they are. 

I think most people will understand what the World Bank is saying, in particular that there is a grotesque skew of resources to Bangkok.

 

Incidentally I'm a Cambridge economics graduate so with respect feel qualified to point out you are hopelessly muddled.I had to stifle a snigger at your comments on the difference between fiscal budgets and public expenditure.

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

I think most people will understand what the World Bank is saying, in particular that there is a grotesque skew of resources to Bangkok.

 

Incidentally I'm a Cambridge economics graduate so with respect feel qualified to point out you are hopelessly muddled.I had to stifle a snigger at your comments on the difference between fiscal budgets and public expenditure.

Yes and im the queen of Egypt.

 

Your worldbank is off considerably, they also state that BKK is responsible for only 26% of the GDP, how is that possible if they pay for 63% on average of the taxes. Seems like the world bank figures are not to be trusted.

 

To back up my claims id have included the OFFICIAL thai fiscal budget that supports my claims of the taxes collected. If BKK only accounted for 26% of the GDP then its impossible to account for 63% of the taxes. Unless you Mr Cambridge graduate can explain how that works. I trust the official Thai budget more then some far of organisation like the world bank. 

 

budget_in_brief_2012.pdf

[coulson]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

who wrote this rubbish ....  oh '    it's the Nation .... that figures.

Well sorry to rain on your parade Nation ....  but it seems the General is here to stay ..... 

 

 

 

Then why promise a return to democracy?

 

Fails me that you put your faith in someone who can't keep their word.

[robblok]

OT,

 

I agree that Prayut should relinquish the absolute power and that an election should be held.

 

@Jayboy,

 

I find the report of the world-bank severely lacking, if you truly studied economics you would cry too looking at the image i added from the report.  How can I ever argue the points when i can't check it against the budget as the catagories are severely lacking. The largest part by far 77% of the expenditure is not even specified. If i were to make a report like that i would be so ashamed. Everyone knows you can't have the biggest parts of expenditure 77% unspecified and still expect people to take you seriously.  

[heybruce]

53 minutes ago, robblok said:

OT,

 

I agree that Prayut should relinquish the absolute power and that an election should be held.

 

@Jayboy,

 

I find the report of the world-bank severely lacking, if you truly studied economics you would cry too looking at the image i added from the report.  How can I ever argue the points when i can't check it against the budget as the catagories are severely lacking. The largest part by far 77% of the expenditure is not even specified. If i were to make a report like that i would be so ashamed. Everyone knows you can't have the biggest parts of expenditure 77% unspecified and still expect people to take you seriously.  

Perhaps the World Bank wanted to emphasize the gross disparities in per capita spending on human resources (health and education) between Bangkok and the rest of Thailand. 

 

What do your sources say about per capita health and education spending between Bangkok and the other regions?

[jayboy]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Yes and im the queen of Egypt.

 

Your worldbank is off considerably, they also state that BKK is responsible for only 26% of the GDP, how is that possible if they pay for 63% on average of the taxes. Seems like the world bank figures are not to be trusted.

 

To back up my claims id have included the OFFICIAL thai fiscal budget that supports my claims of the taxes collected. If BKK only accounted for 26% of the GDP then its impossible to account for 63% of the taxes. Unless you Mr Cambridge graduate can explain how that works. I trust the official Thai budget more then some far of organisation like the world bank. 

 

budget_in_brief_2012.pdf

From the above I don't think we need bother further with this fellow who does not seem to understand the World Bank's role.He is also tilting at windmills - perhaps to obscure the appalling inequality that underwrites Thailand's political divisions.

 

The excellent Kevin Hewison summarises the position well.

https://kyotoreview.org/issue-17/inequality-and-politics-in-thailand-2/

[jippytum]

I hope he stays longer .In the last thirty years they may have been a few honest politicians  however I can think of only Chuan Leekpai and Anand Panyarachun . Can anyone add to the list???

 

[Becker]

13 minutes ago, jippytum said:

I hope he stays longer .In the last thirty years they may have been a few honest politicians  however I can think of only Chuan Leekpai and Anand Panyarachun . Can anyone add to the list???

 

Are you saying that you actually think the present junta leader is honest?????

[jayboy]

16 minutes ago, jippytum said:

I hope he stays longer .In the last thirty years they may have been a few honest politicians  however I can think of only Chuan Leekpai and Anand Panyarachun . Can anyone add to the list???

 

No but I could take one off yours.

 

To be fair I have never had any credible evidence that Abhisit Vejjajiva or Korn Chatikavanij were other than personally honest.I've heard accusations about the latter, but on personal knowledge of the background they don't stack up.

[heybruce]

35 minutes ago, jippytum said:

I hope he stays longer .In the last thirty years they may have been a few honest politicians  however I can think of only Chuan Leekpai and Anand Panyarachun . Can anyone add to the list???

 

How many honest generals can you name?

 

I know the mechanism that voters can use to remove a corrupt elected official.  What is the mechanism for removing a corrupt coup leader?

[AGareth2]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

What is the mechanism for removing a corrupt coup leader?

an uprising

[candide]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Yes and im the queen of Egypt.

 

Your worldbank is off considerably, they also state that BKK is responsible for only 26% of the GDP, how is that possible if they pay for 63% on average of the taxes. Seems like the world bank figures are not to be trusted.

 

To back up my claims id have included the OFFICIAL thai fiscal budget that supports my claims of the taxes collected. If BKK only accounted for 26% of the GDP then its impossible to account for 63% of the taxes. Unless you Mr Cambridge graduate can explain how that works. I trust the official Thai budget more then some far of organisation like the world bank. 

 

budget_in_brief_2012.pdf

It is nice to see a debate based on figures and not only opinions. I am also puzzled by this discrepancy, as both figures are probably accurate, and think of the following possible explanations.

 

Firstly, we don't know the share of corporate tax in the tax revenues. These figures don't represent taxes paid by individuals as there are many businesses in Bangkok.

 

Secondly, many headquarters are located in Bangkok and it can be assumed that a significant share of them centralised their tax payment in Bangkok headquarter for the activities of their branches in other regons (unless Thailand has a specific law against it).

 

Thirdly, it may explain why the World bank GDP figure for Bangkok region is only 26%, if they count the added value where it is produced, rather than where the headquarter is located. (I don't know the methodology used for calculating regional GDP, but that's the only way that could explain such a big difference)

[robblok]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Perhaps the World Bank wanted to emphasize the gross disparities in per capita spending on human resources (health and education) between Bangkok and the rest of Thailand. 

 

What do your sources say about per capita health and education spending between Bangkok and the other regions?

My source says nothing about that but I am more curious how they divide stuff like agricultural subsidies and for instance the military budget (there are 4 armies 1 stationed in BKK so if they also put 70% of the army budget on BKK spending i can poke holes in their findings). By hiding it all like this i can't prove or disprove a thing. I believe that per capita there is more spend on health in BKK because the big hospitals are there and people from other parts of the country also get referred there. So even though its BKK based does not automatically means its all spend on BKK inhabitants.

 

Without more specification its real hard for me to believe them.

[Denim]

1 hour ago, jippytum said:

I hope he stays longer .In the last thirty years they may have been a few honest politicians  however I can think of only Chuan Leekpai and Anand Panyarachun . Can anyone add to the list???

 

Better scratch Chuan Leekpai AKA ' The Painter "

 

Raluek Leekpai Scandal[edit]

In 1987, when Chuan was parliamentary speaker, his younger brother, Raluek Leekpai (ระลึก หลีกภัย), was charged with embezzling 231.8 million baht (US$9 million) from Thai Farmers Bank (TFB).^[4] Raluek had been an executive at TFB. Responding to accusations in parliament, Chuan publicly defended the innocence of his brother. Raluek fled the country, and only returned to Thailand in 2004 after the statute of limitations expired on his crime and he could not be prosecuted. He had been on the run as a fugitive in Taiwan. Raluek has said he might enter politics in order to restore his reputation, although he said he wanted to live a quiet life in his Trang hometown.^[5]

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, candide said:

It is nice to see a debate based on figures and not only opinions. I am also puzzled by this discrepancy, as both figures are probably accurate, and think of the following possible explanations.

 

Firstly, we don't know the share of corporate tax in the tax revenues. These figures don't represent taxes paid by individuals as there are many businesses in Bangkok.

 

Secondly, many headquarters are located in Bangkok and it can be assumed that a significant share of them centralised their tax payment in Bangkok headquarter for the activities of their branches in other regons (unless Thailand has a specific law against it).

 

Thirdly, it may explain why the World bank GDP figure for Bangkok region is only 26%, if they count the added value where it is produced, rather than where the headquarter is located. (I don't know the methodology used for calculating regional GDP, but that's the only way that could explain such a big difference)

I can only say I don't trust the world bank figures that much as they are too unspecific. I do think you might be right (partly at least) because for company tax it would make sense that its paid by the main office. But it still would not account for all of it. Also my figures are newer then the world banks reports. 

 

I just feel that there where most tax is paid most should be spend too (does not mean no money should go elsewhere) but there where most is paid most benefits should go to too. (Yea i know that is a right wing opinion but i feel if you pay a lot of tax its only fair you see most of it back in your own area)

[robblok]

1 hour ago, jayboy said:

From the above I don't think we need bother further with this fellow who does not seem to understand the World Bank's role.He is also tilting at windmills - perhaps to obscure the appalling inequality that underwrites Thailand's political divisions.

 

The excellent Kevin Hewison summarises the position well.

https://kyotoreview.org/issue-17/inequality-and-politics-in-thailand-2/

I guess you don't want to accept that the world bank can claim a lot but their figures don't match up. As long as something suits your views its valid evidence otherwise its not. Its no fun debating with you because you don't debate on fact but only on facts that support your opinion. If they don't support it you don't agree with them.

 

You said you went to Camebridge that would mean you had a decent education and anyone with a decent education would know you cant leave 70% of your costs unspecified in a report. 

[poohy]

"A poll in June showed that 53 percent of Thais would like Prayuth to serve another term."

 

It appears i know an almighty amount of the 47% that want him out then!

[Cadbury]

20 minutes ago, candide said:

It is nice to see a debate based on figures and not only opinions. I am also puzzled by this discrepancy, as both figures are probably accurate, and think of the following possible explanations.

 

Firstly, we don't know the share of corporate tax in the tax revenues. These figures don't represent taxes paid by individuals as there are many businesses in Bangkok.

 

Secondly, many headquarters are located in Bangkok and it can be assumed that a significant share of them centralised their tax payment in Bangkok headquarter for the activities of their branches in other regons (unless Thailand has a specific law against it).

 

Thirdly, it may explain why the World bank GDP figure for Bangkok region is only 26%, if they count the added value where it is produced, rather than where the headquarter is located. (I don't know the methodology used for calculating regional GDP, but that's the only way that could explain such a big difference)

Also I might add that while I have enjoyed the debate between Jayboy and robblock I am unqualified to buy into the discussion. However I would like to make this comment.

It has been said that Thailand has the seventh largest shadow economy in the world. It has been estimated that near enough to 41% of the economy is "black". So I wonder what a nonsense that makes of some of the numbers included in the official Thai economic statistics. The GDP for instance.

For example given that there are two economies operating in Thailand....... "black" 41% and "white" 59% what reality is there when the official "white" economy figures claims are made that the GDP has increased by X percent? 

In theory when the "white" and the "black" economies are combined the "actual" GDP might be much or higher or it might be much lower than the official figure. Depending on what the unknown "black" figures might be.

 

[YouYouYou]

5 hours ago, Becker said:

Hey steven, have you set up another account with TVF so that you can expand your sycophantic ramblings?

Eh, who r uuu, who is steven? For uuu becker you may want see when my account was set up ...get off yer supermarket trolly beer boy.

 

So back to giving opinion on TV, my opinion which is fine to state and doesnt suck up to the OP story, is that Prayut may not be the ultimate solution for Thailand but alternatives could be a lot worse. For many that have lived here since dinosaurs roamed the earth, you may remember, or want to forget the amount of excrement the reds created ... shut down this and shut down that, deaths, corruption untold and so on. Really you TV guavas do you want to see a return to shinawaster rule? I don't and IMO Thailand is way too far from ready to have something resembling democratic rule. Love Prayut or hate him ...get ready for the next round of Reds excrement and then report back and tell me how bad it was under Prayut.

Just sayin, oh opinion on TV ...go on shoot me down or call me some other person to make your supermarket trolley point.

 

Love you. Youyouyou.