Poor really are getting poorer in Thailand

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, greatwhitenorth said:

Yes iI missed the obvious  tenuous connection between your Mil s experience and the bigger picture.  What percentage of people earning under 4k a month own their own home?  If the children are providing income for their parents then obviously the childrens income is actually much lower than reported as it is not just their income.  

The vast majority of rural people own their own homes, I would hazard a guess at greater than 90%, a few might attempt to borrow against it but it's unlikely this would be through mainstream lenders, typically it's from loan sharks. Small village co-operatives exist that will lend money without collateral, up to a fairly low ceiling amount but these organisations are not in the mortgage business. 

 

It's typical that children and family support older parents in Thailand, it would be a rare exception that does not, it's not a question of "if" they are supporting their parents, it's a question of, to what extent they are doing so. Does that impact on the children's income, of course, it must but they, of course, are better positioned to go out and earn more money to compensate, than are the elderly parents.  

 

 

[blackcab]

2 hours ago, greatwhitenorth said:

http://www.thp.org/knowledge-center/know-your-world-facts-about-hunger-poverty/

 

I was being sarcastic.  I couldn t believe that anyone with enough education to have Thai friends that pay 12k a month and room and board for a gardner would be so ignorant as to blame children for being poor.

 

Firstly, your reference says nothing about Thailand. There is not one mention, so I'm wondering why you used it.

 

Secondly, I think you are completely missing the point. The OP talked about people with an income less than 2,920 baht a month. If you think about it, almost no children in Thailand have an income, which leads me to believe that children were not counted as part of this research. After all, children are dependants.

 

If you believe children were included then it would be reasonable to assume that nearly all children in Thailand were included in the research.

 

UNICEF last recorded the under 18 population in Thailand as 15,106,900.

 

https://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/Thailand_statistics.html

 

As there are more than 2.5 times the number of children in Thailand than the total number of people recorded in the OP's research then your assumption of the OP's research parameters and methodology is clearly at odds with the facts.

 

If you wish to continue your unsubstantiated claim that 50 per cent of those listed in the OP's research are children I suggest you contact the author of the research and clarify the matter. If you don't do that then your words are an opinion with no basis in fact.

 

Moving on to your next post:

 

2 hours ago, greatwhitenorth said:

No if you read the article before you started with your rant you would have know that is nationwide no Bangkok.

Bangkok has a population of 9,617,000  (2017) as per wikipedia ( I know you need references). To think that 2/3 of the poulation of Bangkok lives on less than 100usd is lunacy but indicative of your real knowledge of Thailand. 

 

I can confirm that I understand the OP relates to the whole country. Your words are an excellent example of imagining what another person is thinking and getting it completely wrong.

[RichardColeman]

Oh, stop complaining ! You have lovely new submarines now. 

 

 

 

[blackcab]

7 minutes ago, cmsally said:

This in fact is one of the more worrying things, at the moment a large proportion of older people still own their own homes, but just think along the line in about 20-30yrs. With the rise in property prices, stagnant incomes, and inflation, the future doesn't look too rosy. Property repeatedly gets split up amongst multiple children. With stagnant incomes and the dramatic rise in property prices in the last 30 years they either blow their portion or buy a "shoebox". Race to the bottom is a good scenario for what I see happening at the moment.

 

That's an interesting observation. The thing is, though, that the quantity of land in the country remains the same, so in 20-30 years who will own all this land?

 

Do you think it will be purchased by other families and used as a place to live, do you think there will be an increase in the rental market, or perhaps a bit of both?

[hobz]

Current regime is all about bringing happiness to the people (elite).

 

Why do you think the bangkok elite overthrew the government elected by the poor masses and what did you think would happen?

Edited November 19, 2017 by hobz

[simoh1490]

13 minutes ago, cmsally said:

This in fact is one of the more worrying things, at the moment a large proportion of older people still own their own homes, but just think along the line in about 20-30yrs. With the rise in property prices, stagnant incomes, and inflation, the future doesn't look too rosy. Property repeatedly gets split up amongst multiple children. With stagnant incomes and the dramatic rise in property prices in the last 30 years they either blow their portion or buy a "shoebox". Race to the bottom is a good scenario for what I see happening at the moment.

Except....there's an over supply of property in Thailand, plus, it's not impossible to think that prices might fall at some point, they have in China.

[klauskunkel]

1 minute ago, hobz said:

Current regime is all about bringing happiness to the people (elite).

Government brings karma to the people, everyone gets what everyone deserves as regulated by Prayut and his frog.

[greatwhitenorth]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Except....there's an over supply of property in Thailand, plus, it's not impossible to think that prices might fall at some point, they have in China.

 

Very relevant, 6 ,000,000 Thais live on less than $3 a day  and  I am sure the  possibilty of falling real estate prices is their biggest concern.  Oh and the stock market and where is the best place to have your mercedes detailed.  

[chickenslegs]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

No, what you don't understand if the way things work in Thailand and that the survey is pretty much worthless.

Decharut Sukkumnoed is an economics professor at Kasetsart University. He is also Thai. I guess he is well qualified to understand the way things work in Thailand.

 

 

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Decharut Sukkumnoed is an economics professor at Kasetsart University. He is also Thai. I guess he is well qualified to understand the way things work in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

With all due respect to the good professor and the university he works for, here is the ranking of that university: https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/kasetsart-university

 

Thailands libel laws prevent me from going into detail about job titles versus qualifications.

 

But being Thai he should understand those things, maybe he does, maybe he does not, maybe he chose not to describe that aspect for his own reasons. None of which changes the realities of the way the system works in respect of older people and familes in Thailand which the report does not consider.

 

[sammieuk1]

It makes me wonder that being a post brexit Brit is not so bad then I wake up and find it is .

So god knows what being Thai poor feels like.

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

I do think a significant percentage of those people in poverty could find work if they chose to.

 

I've been thinking about this, and I'm wondering how many of these people are actually employable.

 

If they have nothing to offer the labour market then nobody is going to employ them. The government isn't going to subsidise them to any great extent, so they will remain in the same situation.

 

In the future, as technology progresses and basic level jobs become harder to find, what is the solution for the unskilled, uneducated and unwilling?

 

In another post it was mentioned that the top 1 per cent of Thailand's population owns about 56 per cent of the country's wealth.

 

I'm not defending the elites at all, but equally the lower classes need a bit of get up and go aswell.

 

Innovation, perseverance, sound financial planning and hard work are not assets that are only owned by the elite.

[hansnl]

Does the learned professor live in lala land maybe?

Doesn't the learned professor know that nearly everywhere in the world the poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer?

Doesn't the learned professor look at WHO and UN reports warning for this?

Doesn't the learned professor know when the government floated the idea of raising the minimum pay there followed a round of price raising followed by another hike when the minimum legal wage actually went up, resulting in less buying power, while the legal minimum wage is largely ignored?

Doesn't the learned professor know that the reason for all this is the unbridled and unchecked capitalism and the growing anti-democratic power of the big companies.

Doesn't the learned professor understands if you lay your finger on a problem it is not enough to just mention a (possible) problem, but also offer a few possible solutions?

 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by hansnl

[hansnl]

2 minutes ago, blackcab said:

 

I've been thinking about this, and I'm wondering how many of these people are actually employable.

 

If they have nothing to offer the labour market then nobody is going to employ them. The government isn't going to subsidise them to any great extent, so they will remain in the same situation.

 

In the future, as technology progresses and basic level jobs become harder to find, what is the solution for the unskilled, uneducated and unwilling?

 

In another post it was mentioned that the top 1 per cent of Thailand's population owns about 56 per cent of the country's wealth.

 

I'm not defending the elites at all, but equally the lower classes need a bit of get up and go aswell.

 

Innovation, perseverance, sound financial planning and hard work are not assets that are only owned by the elite.

Well, the solution to your up & go ideas is education, jobs suitable for those unable to get better educated, and so on.

And financial planning will only work if you have financials to start with.

And the poor, as you call the lower classes, have hardly any possibilities to get out of the poverty

 

[hansnl]

2 hours ago, Get Real said:

As usual, there is another comment from somebody that just wants to tell everybody that thai people don´t want to do work, and that they think in the wrong way. 
Why in the world are you at all interested in the country. Signing out!

 

Quite so.

The fact is, like everywhere in the world, guest workers are hired because they are cheaper, and the local workforce doesn't want to do those jobs for the lousy pay offered.

Not something peculiar to Thailand.

[KiChakayan]

5 hours ago, Thongkorn said:

Most People,  foreigners who live in Thailand have never been in the provinces and seen the real poverty.

You can see it in Pattaya though, go to soi 6.. Many there have smartphones, a conduit out of poverty...

Edited November 19, 2017 by KiChakayan

[JAG]

All the arguments about owning one's own home, growing one's own food and financial support from family networks allowing one to exist on ThB 4000 a month really only have traction in an agrarian peasant society.

 

Thailand is fast ceasing to be such a society.The younger sector of the population are increasingly moving to the cities for work. Their pay is insufficient to really support any aspirations to improve their lot, whilst a very small (closed) proportion of the population grow ever more wealthy as a result of their efforts. Add to that the repeated disenfranchising of this working population, (now being formalised in "organic law", ) and you are creating an absolute tinder box.

 

That is what tolerating, let alone creating that sort of poverty does, eventually.

Edited November 19, 2017 by JAG

[yellowboat]

6 hours ago, halloween said:

When their "representation" danced to the tune of a corrupt fugitive criminal in return for a fat monthly payment, their influence must have been huge.

They are all criminals.  Some, however, are elected.   The junta should, for once, seize the moral high ground and step aside and let the chips fall where they may.  They are clearly providing benefits only to the wealthy which rarely trickle down.  

[cmsally]

Some of the most noticeable developments in the past 20 years have been:

- the erosion of the middle class and small business owners

- turning out a great number of relatively well educated people (comparing to past generations) who expected great rewards but ended up in low paid jobs

 

I would say you are creating a generation who live pay check to pay check (if they are lucky). Many of these live away from home and have rent to add in.

Logically the big companies will be looking to take over agriculture as well as any property that can be used for tourism or can be rented to workers /employees.

People will of course be left with property , but mostly not the kind that is interesting to an investor , so low value and difficult to make a living from.

[SiSePuede419]

Worldwide problem.

 

Name one country in which, the Rich aren't getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

 

I can't think of one. ?

[hansnl]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Unfortunately, I am not surprised by this news, and I suspect that few others are surprised either; when the poor lose their representation, it follows that they lose their influence as well

 

The truly sad news is that the trend is likely to continue until there is a government that focus' on the poor, and that is likely a ways into the future...

 

Sad times..

It is a fact the downward movement of the poors' lives and the upwards movement of the richs' lives has been going on for much longer, even 10-15 years ago this was the case.

It is quite cheap to blame 2-3 years change into the last 19-15 years.

And wherever did you get the idea the poor, anywhere in the world, have any say in what goes on in a country.

You surely don't want to say the former Thaksin governments did do something worthwile for the poor.

Get it through your head, everywhere in the world the poor are getting poorer, nearly all politicos are crooked and mostly taking care of their "clan' and nobody gives a damn about the poor, just their votes are needed.

[davidkas]

6 hours ago, ezzra said:

This figure represent less than 10% of the population, almost every Thai 

person owns a smartphone, a motorcycle or and a piece of gold ornaments,

most Thais now days will scoff at a minimum wage days work, a young guard

girl with no formal education get over 10,000 baht a month at our condo,

Thai people get fat and drink a lot, and travel overseas frequently, 

however, there's a serious issue with the elderly and the disabled who

has to do with a peanuts for living and something clearly has to be done there....

Most of the smart phones I've seen in my village are second hand, old and cracked and that sums up the mother cycles as well.

you need to take a reality check and get out of the city for a few days and tour rural Thailand.

[metisdead]

Troll posts and replies have been removed. 

[Muggi1968]

They just experience the consequences of Yinlucks rice scheme......
Same tinge happend in Europe 20-30 Years ago when the EU (EF) overpaid farmers for corn and milk....

 

[Cadbury]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The government is now facing its biggest budget deficits in modern history, accounting for up to 23 per cent of its total revenues.

That's before building 1700 kms of dreamtime high speed train routes at an expected cost of 640,000,000 baht per kilometre.  

So we have:

1,000,000,000,000 baht for 1700 kms of high speed train lines (cost of trains additional)

36,000,000,000 baht for three Chinese submarines,

8,256,000,000 baht for jet trainers from Korea

7,520,000,000 baht for Sikorsky Black Hawk helicopters from US

1,900,000,000 baht for Chinese tanks

2,300,000,000 baht for Chinese APCs     

 

Just for the military hardware alone the cost is 56,000,000,000 baht. Buying military hardware does virtually NOTHING to improve the economy except perhaps growth the wealth of some of the already rich.

The commissions and kickbacks on these deals would be the stuff dreams are made of.

Wonder what the budget deficit will look like in another 5 - 10 years. The military looks to be on course to bankrupt the country by the end of all their 20 year plans.

Little wonder there is no money left over for the poor and the farmers.

 

(E&OE)

 

 

 

[Cadbury]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

All the arguments about owning one's own home, growing one's own food and financial support from family networks allowing one to exist on ThB 4000

Isn't that all part of the Thai philosophy known as “sufficiency economy”? Looks like the wheels are falling off that grand plan big time. With some little help from the military.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Cadbury

[Lee4Life]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

This figure represent less than 10% of the population, almost every Thai 

person owns a smartphone, a motorcycle or and a piece of gold ornaments,

most Thais now days will scoff at a minimum wage days work, a young guard

girl with no formal education get over 10,000 baht a month at our condo,

Thai people get fat and drink a lot, and travel overseas frequently, 

however, there's a serious issue with the elderly and the disabled who

has to do with a peanuts for living and something clearly has to be done there....

How about showing us sources for these "facts" you are spouting off ?

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, SiSePuede419 said:

Worldwide problem.

 

Name one country in which, the Rich aren't getting richer and the poor getting poorer?

 

I can't think of one. ?

The Vatican?

[Chris Lawrence]

1 hour ago, Cadbury said:

That's before building 1700 kms of dreamtime high speed train routes at an expected cost of 640,000,000 baht per kilometre.  

So we have:

1,000,000,000,000 baht for 1700 kms of high speed train lines (cost of trains additional)

36,000,000,000 baht for three Chinese submarines,

8,256,000,000 baht for jet trainers from Korea

7,520,000,000 baht for Sikorsky Black Hawk helicopters from US

1,900,000,000 baht for Chinese tanks

2,300,000,000 baht for Chinese APCs     

 

Just for the military hardware alone the cost is 56,000,000,000 baht. Buying military hardware does virtually NOTHING to improve the economy except perhaps growth the wealth of some of the already rich.

The commissions and kickbacks on these deals would be the stuff dreams are made of.

Wonder what the budget deficit will look like in another 5 - 10 years. The military looks to be on course to bankrupt the country by the end of all their 20 year plans.

Little wonder there is no money left over for the poor and the farmers.

 

(E&OE)

 

 

 

And no one will see the exact bill at the end of the day.

 

Not sure if they are exact costs but a very good summary of costs, Cadbury. You can see why there is US interest in the non-elected government; they have a cheque book open.

 

Who are the lead banks handling the loans; this is where the big money is made. I would assume the lead banks would be Thai with military appointments. A offshore money house will handle the gathering of funds, delivered too the Thai's. Anyone got ideas on this?

[Chris Lawrence]

13 minutes ago, Lee4Life said:

How about showing us sources for these "facts" you are spouting off ?

Just walk around the country areas and you will see it.