EU gives up on Thai democracy

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

EU gives up on Thai democracy

By The Nation

 

Only the junta, certainly not human rights, will benefit from the latest pivot to realpolitik

The decision by the European Union’s Foreign Affairs Council to resume political contacts with military-ruled Thailand is wonderful news for global authoritarianism, but woeful for this benighted Kingdom of Southeast Asia.

 

With Donald Trump’s United States heedless of rights abuses anywhere in the world, getting the EU also on board gives Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha all the clout he needs to continue managing the country as he alone sees fit.

 

The EU has abandoned its call for an “urgent” restoration of democracy in Thailand. Everything it has 

criticised since the 2014 coup has been forgotten. Political restrictions and limits on individual freedoms are now likely to continue until all of the general’s ideological enemies die off or fade away.

 

Absurdly, the EU Foreign Affairs Council based its decision on vague statements that Prayut made about a future election while he was 

visiting the US in October. The council clearly doesn’t have its ears to the ground here. Otherwise it would realise how few Thais actually believe there will be an election in November next year, as Prayut assured Trump. It would be aware that Prayut is now again claiming there are “threats to national security”, with the implication being that no election can be held until the perceived threats are expunged.

 

The junta’s much-vaunted “roadmap” guiding Thailand back to full democracy has never amounted to a clear timeline, and meanwhile, as long as the ban on political gatherings remains in place, preparations for an election cannot begin. At least the EU acknowledges this much, noting that “freedom of expression and assembly remains highly restricted. Civil society activists and human rights defenders continue to face judicial harassment.” 

 

But such concerns are evidently not enough to prevent the EU from ignoring its conscience and re-engaging with Thailand politically.

 

Wishful thinking seems to form the basis for the change of heart. The council looks forward to “meaningful dialogue” on “issues of mutual importance” such as rights and freedoms.

 

Such optimism might be understandable if there were convincing evidence that the junta is genuinely concerned about rights and wants inclusive elections. On the contrary, it has deliberately created a constitutional basis for the military to retain a central role in politics for the long term. The election will be called only when it has eliminated all challenges to that claim on power.

 

The junta has been confident all along that the EU desires a comprehensive economic and trade arrangement with Thailand, and in recent years, competing trade blocs around the globe have discarded democratic principles in the rush for financial benefit. It was only a matter of time before the Europeans, shaken by Brexit and saddled with high import duties, amended their criteria.

 

In fact it took three and a half years for EU patience to run out. Finally it became obvious that the Thai military wasn’t about to relinquish its grip on power anytime soon. Meanwhile trade revenues were being lost and other nations were gaining the upper hand. Realpolitik and greed for profit prevailed.

 

So now the US and EU have jettisoned democratic principles. China of course was never interested in them. It appears that the democracy movement in Thailand is pretty much on its own in maintaining the struggle. If the activists are arrested – or, rather, when they are – there might be a statement of moral support from the EU, but that’s about all.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/opinion/30333891

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-12-14

[Samui Bodoh]

It is a pretty depressing editorial about the EU, and it may or may not be correct. We'll see what happens closer to November 2018 and whether a free trade negotiation actually begins...

 

However, it is not the EU that will determine the future course of Thailand. Three times this century alone the Thai people have caused a government to change through their actions. The question is whether they are up for a fourth, if needed.

 

There is a basic truism; a government cannot manage a country successfully without the support of its populace. It'll be interesting to see where Thailand goes over the next few months.

[alant]

Worth reading, and for me clear support for my view of the EU that prioritises prawn sandwiches above principles.

[ramrod711]

Unfortunately, Thai people do not hold their governments to a very high standard. There was a post on Thai Visa a few years ago that stuck in my mind, a fellow living in the northeast asked his Thai neighbor about Thaksin. He said, "if Thaksin take 1,000 baht from the peoples money, keeps 900 baht for himself and gives you 100 baht is that ok". The neighbor responded "I don't know, no one ever gave me 100 baht before". The point is, we come here from our home countries with an expectation of what a government should be based on what we grew up with. Thai people did not grow up with the same experience. I hope that changes, I really do, in the mean time if the next elected government can be honest and act in the interests of the people the military will not be able to take power forcibly, the people won't allow it.

[terryw]

Long ago many of us gave up on EU democracy. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by terryw

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

EU gives up on Thai democracy

Been there, done that, bought the T shirt.

[punchjudy]

democracy in thailand didn't work too well

[anon467367354]

Isn't the EU run by a bunch of non-elected corporate fat cats that have an office Brussels, and they're talking about democracy?

Is there anything democratic about the EU? Try to leave the EU and see what happens.

[newcomer71]

47 minutes ago, punchjudy said:

democracy in thailand didn't work too well

[Sarcasm mode on] Instead military coups work like a charm, indeed... [Sarcasm mode off]

[Enoon]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is a pretty depressing editorial about the EU, and it may or may not be correct. We'll see what happens closer to November 2018 and whether a free trade negotiation actually begins...

 

However, it is not the EU that will determine the future course of Thailand. Three times this century alone the Thai people have caused a government to change through their actions. The question is whether they are up for a fourth, if needed.

 

There is a basic truism; a government cannot manage a country successfully without the support of its populace. It'll be interesting to see where Thailand goes over the next few months.

 

"The Council looks forward to the progressive deepening of relations with Thailand following the holding of credible and inclusive elections and improvements in the human rights situation.  The EU looks to the Thai authorities to ensure a political environment in which opposition parties and civil society can function freely."

 

Read the full text of the Council conclusions on Thailand

 

 

 

[YetAnother]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

So now the US and EU have jettisoned democratic principles

while it might be argued on other fronts, there is no logic presented in the main article to lump the USA in this 

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, alant said:

Worth reading, and for me clear support for my view of the EU that prioritises prawn sandwiches above principles.

The EU is pragmatic, there never was democracy in Thailand, just lip service, the high-so's don't care who is in government as long as they are still in control. Whoever wins an election will be led to the trough, eat dear friends but do as you're told, so why bother posturing when nothing will change.

[maxcorrigan]

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Been there, done that, bought the T shirt.

Yep, me too even got the fridge magnet!

[Eric Loh]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

EU gives up on Thai democracy

Too simplistic in coming to that conclusion by the author. Conditions were attached to restoring of ties. That's not giving up by a long short. Anyway, more importantly is that the citizens are not giving up without a fight. History bares witness to numerous occasions whereby prolonged military stay will not end nicely. People still desire and want to chose their government judging from the high turnouts of every elections. Thais are not giving up on democracy for sure. 

[wolf81]

To be honest, if you want to live in a "democracy" (like the one in the EU - which to me, seems to slowly turn more and more into a corporatist superstate), just return to your EU country of origin. 

[baboon]

28 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

To be honest, if you want to live in a "democracy" (like the one in the EU - which to me, seems to slowly turn more and more into a corporatist superstate), just return to your EU country of origin. 

And what do you suggest for the Thais who also want to live in a democracy? 

[the guest]

EU has no democracy either, so I'm wondering what the fuss is about?

[Eric Loh]

15 minutes ago, the guest said:

EU has no democracy either, so I'm wondering what the fuss is about?

May be true but at least they have election and no article 44, 112 and computer crime law used for political reasons. 

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, wolf81 said:

To be honest, if you want to live in a "democracy" (like the one in the EU - which to me, seems to slowly turn more and more into a corporatist superstate), just return to your EU country of origin. 

Such a cliche!...says more about the limitations of the poster than anything.

[martinhp]

6 hours ago, punchjudy said:

democracy in thailand didn't work too well

It is not true there where rules and money to make

now it change as the mind of these fatalities change

and no money to make if you are not a general

but I been here long enough so I sold out in 2013 and only kept one shop this year the tax went up with 200% on the land but still no laws to protect the lease holders investment or life 

The tax on everything is going up nobody can invest here as it is not stabil and it goes for the Thais too they don't know if they bought or sold tomorrow. 

I see this every day it's not same as yingluck or her brother 

Today you have desperate police officers they need money and they have guns but they can not support there salary to easy anymore you think this is is good or stabil 

But it is like this all around it's evil way of thinking and with no concidoration to haw they population managed before 

All the people who worked in the street on the beach taxi and so on all poor people fishermen it is evil not to find the replacement before attacking them as it is practice for this government 

How they gonna support there family when they are not allowed to work 

And who make rules like that I tell you it is someone who don't care about the people who gives them the money .

[wolf81]

10 hours ago, baboon said:

And what do you suggest for the Thais who also want to live in a democracy? 

I would say either try to convince the majority of the Thai people to fight for democracy or move out of the country (somehow). But yeah, like another poster here, I don't believe Thailand is ready yet for a real democracy. You'd get the same kind of messy stuff that happened in so many other countries that shifted prematurely to a democratic system (e.g. in the Arab world).

 

It seems most / all of the family of my girlfriend don't seem to be concerned with democracy at all. I imagine most Thai people feel the same, especially on the country side.

Edited December 14, 2017 by wolf81

[baboon]

1 minute ago, wolf81 said:

I would say either try to convince the majority of the Thai people to fight for democracy or move out of the country (somehow). But yeah, like another poster here, I don't believe Thailand is ready yet for a real democracy. You'd get the same kind of messy stuff that happened in so many other countries that shifted prematurely to a democratic system (e.g. in the Arab world).

Why should any Thai be forced to leave their place of birth for simply wishing for a democratic system of government? Or for Thailand to be a country with an army and not an army with a country? 

[icare999]

18 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

Unfortunately, Thai people do not hold their governments to a very high standard. There was a post on Thai Visa a few years ago that stuck in my mind, a fellow living in the northeast asked his Thai neighbor about Thaksin. He said, "if Thaksin take 1,000 baht from the peoples money, keeps 900 baht for himself and gives you 100 baht is that ok". The neighbor responded "I don't know, no one ever gave me 100 baht before". The point is, we come here from our home countries with an expectation of what a government should be based on what we grew up with. Thai people did not grow up with the same experience. I hope that changes, I really do, in the mean time if the next elected government can be honest and act in the interests of the people the military will not be able to take power forcibly, the people won't allow it.

555 and you think western governments are better do you run and ruled by bankers a little naive i think 

[wolf81]

13 hours ago, baboon said:

Why should any Thai be forced to leave their place of birth for simply wishing for a democratic system of government? Or for Thailand to be a country with an army and not an army with a country? 

You can wish whatever you want. But the minority can't force democracy is the majority just isn't interested. So in that case just deal with it or leave.

[PatOngo]

On ‎14‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:56 AM, Bluespunk said:

Been there, done that, bought the T shirt.

Ahhh, but have you bought the key ring and coffee mug?.........fridge magnet?

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Ahhh, but have you bought the key ring and coffee mug?.........fridge magnet?

I would but I’m not a great collector of memorabilia.

 

T shirts are about my limit. 

[DM07]

It is sooooo cute, how everybody and their aunt is going "...but...but...but...the EU!"

Seriously, guys?

The EU is that bad compared to Thailands non-existent democracy, the slightest law or order (unless it comes insulting certain people) and the overall 3rd world- experience, you are provided with, on a daily basis!?

 

You are some really strange people!

[baboon]

2 hours ago, wolf81 said:

You can wish whatever you want. But the minority can't force democracy is the majority just isn't interested. So in that case just deal with it or leave.

I would have a modicum of respect if you would just come clean and say you really don't care how many people the army kill or imprison just as long as you personally are happy, rather than resort to empty banalities such as "deal with it or leave".

[jcsmith]

2 hours ago, wolf81 said:

You can wish whatever you want. But the minority can't force democracy is the majority just isn't interested. So in that case just deal with it or leave.

That is such a ridiculous argument. The majority went out and voted for what they wanted previously. In the last election you had goons waiting in lines trying to intimidate people not to vote... and this current regime was put into power by those goons who escaped any sort of prosecution for their actions. The junta rule is not the will of the people. However, we may never know an accurate will of the people at this point because people who speak out are arrested for attitude adjustments, and public gatherings that are not of junta approval are not allowed to happen. 

[spidermike007]

That was a very good editorial written by someone at the Nation. Nice to see them speaking out and condemning this horrific administration, and their refusal to let go of power. The little guy is enjoying the power, and staggering wealth he is accumulating, just a bit too much to let it go. To hell with the nation. He never gave one iota of concern to the Thai people. He is what we would call the polar opposite of a patriot. 

 

I am not as familiar with the EU, as I am with the US. I think Trump actually prefers dealing with despots and juntas. Democracy makes him very, very uncomfortable. A free media makes him even more uncomfortable. Fake news? How about a fake leader?