"Poor targeted by cops again" as pick-up seating ban looms for New Year travel

[Jonmarleesco]

1 hour ago, Khun Paul said:

There is a way around this, ever driver of a pick-up carrying passengers in the bed of the truck should hold third party insurance to cover in case of injures or death for every named passenger. Injuries and death should not cost the Govt any money then.

I doubt any insurance would cover the results of ignorance, both of the law, and of common sense. 

[ratcatcher]

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Simple solution.

Put a plastic sheet ("roof") on top of the pickup truck, call it a songthaew and voila: it is legal.

Some people think too mut!

Good idea, but you still need the two long benches... song thaew... to use as seats.

[TKDfella]

8 hours ago, jvs said:

I fully agree with what you are saying but why come up with this idea now.

Many people have planned the trip home already,if the government had just told the people after Songkran the law would be strictly enforced from then on it would have giving people time to adjust and plan accordingly.Two weeks before the holiday?I think they could have done a lot better than this.

Quite right. If the ban was enforced throughout the year then there would be no need to do it now. This would also include those many workers at building sites etc frequently seen being take to and from work.

[oldhippy]

16 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Good idea, but you still need the two long benches... song thaew... to use as seats.

ah... true, but I don't think that Thai law defines "two long benches"....

When does a simple shelf become a bench?

 

I'm only joking of course, but the sad fact is that a song thaew is not safer than a mere pickup truck.

What is the point of banning pickup trucks for people transport, unless they are willing and capable to regulate song thaews - and I already hear the TVF members cry "nanny state".

[mommysboy]

First and foremost Thailands accident rate is about speed; all else is incidental.

[losername]

18 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I'm only joking of course, but the sad fact is that a song thaew is not safer than a mere pickup truck.

What is the point of banning pickup trucks for people transport, unless they are willing and capable to regulate song thaews - and I already hear the TVF members cry "nanny state".

There have been quite a few posts recently on TV that refer to "modified pickups" which, I presume, includes songthaews  and any other variation on the pickup theme.  I have a standard pickup and my insurance covers a driver and six passengers.  Presumably carrying a number of persons in excess of the insured number invalidates the insurance.  My question to anyone who knows is, do "modified pickups" have special insurance that allow them to operate in such a dangerous, overloaded manner.  As Hippy says, they are not safer than a mere pickup truck.

[oldhippy]

34 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

First and foremost Thailands accident rate is about speed; all else is incidental.

hmmm.

Never seen people running red lights?

Never seen motocys slaloming?

Never looked in the back mirror when stopping for a red light, to make sure the car 2 meters behind you was not going to run into your ass?

Never looked in awe at the tires of trucks and busses?

and the list goes on

[Jools]

Same situation in America. The poor are persecuted by the cops, who, themselves, are about two paychecks away from the street. The thuggish arrogance of the public sector working class is astonishing.

[observer90210]

12 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

The stroke of your brush is much too imbalanced to represent an equitable solution.  According to such a policy as your post would lend itself to, someone who ran a red light because he or she didn't see it (I did this accidentally once in Thailand when the light was high and the car I was driving had tinted glass for the top six inches of the front windscreen) should have his or her vehicle impounded for two years for the inadvertent mistake.  I'm not buying that one.  Drunken driving is one thing--but to paint all other traffic infractions with the same heavy brush is not going to fly.

 So as you say the heavy tinted glass in your car windscreen that prevented you from stopping at the red light because you did not see it.....ok I understand....

 

but would you be so casual if, in place of not stopping at the red light, instead you ran over a bystander at night in a dark road and killed him as you did not see him due to the excessive tinted glass on your windscreen ?

 

Sorry, but I just cannot agree with your very casual way of speaking on road safety, that kills thousands in Thailand. 

 

No offence , be safe and I hope your car now enables you to see where you are going and driving !!

Edited December 18, 2017 by observer90210

[Blackheart1916]

No need to get your knickers in a knot, this one will be scrapped too.

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, observer90210 said:

 So as you say the heavy tinted glass in your car windscreen that prevented you from stopping at the red light because you did not see it.....ok I understand....

 

but would you be so casual if, in place of not stopping at the red light, instead you ran over a bystander at night in a dark road and killed him as you did not see him due to the excessive tinted glass on your windscreen ?

 

Sorry, but I just cannot agree with your very casual way of speaking on road safety, that kills thousands in Thailand. 

 

No offence , be safe and I hope your car now enables you to see where you are going and driving !!

A few points here to hopefully clarify things a bit.

 

1.  It was not my car.  I was helping to drive on a long road trip with others.
2.  Because of the distance from where I usually resided, the road at that point was new and unfamiliar to me.
3. Because I did not see a light at the intersection, I looked both ways before passing through it, treating it as an uncontrolled intersection.

 

I did not kill anyone.  There was no accident.  There was not even any screeching of tires.  But a police officer did see it, and rode up beside me at the next stop light which I had seen, as the light was at the usual level, and I had stopped along with other traffic.  When I, through translation via others present with me, appeared confused as to the existence of the light at the prior intersection, and seeing that the light at the present intersection had finally turned green, with a bit of traffic needing to be on the move, the officer gave up on pressing it, and disgustedly zoomed away on his motorcycle, leaving me to continue on our journey.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I am not trying to defend running red lights.  Nor am I defending, or excusing, the use of tinted glass.  To my mind, that tinted wind screen presented a safety hazard, particularly in that situation where the traffic light was elevated more than usual.  I'm not even trying to excuse my mistake--it was definitely a traffic infraction, and one worth taking seriously.  My argument is simply that a mistake such as I made is not worthy of a two-year confiscation of the vehicle (which in this case would have been a questionable policy anyhow, as the vehicle did not belong to me).

 

A similar point might be made about the earlier poster's inclusion of speeding as meritorious of the two-year impounding he/she had proposed.  Suppose a speed camera catches someone going 2 kph over the limit? Is that worth a two-year hiatus from driving the car? what about 5 kph? 10? 15?

 

Civilized countries have gradated scales of offenses ranging from a simple citation to potential arrest and/or impounding of the vehicle or revocation of the license for reckless driving.  Such distinctions between categories of infractions seem both reasonable and necessary.

[xen]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

Many of Thailand's poorer people use pick-up transport to return to the provinces saving money on buses and trains. But when accidents occur people travelling unsecured in the back of the open trucks are often killed and injured.

It is total bulls**t  the saving on train or bus - the cost of fuel from BKK to say Korat would be similar although it may be shared 6 or 8 times according to the number ofs and there were no freeloaders , babies,children etc. Then in the event of an accident there are the emergency and the ongoing hospital and medical costs and all too often the funeral costs to pay the temple plus the Tamboon. Nobody really wins when it comes to saving a few baht .

[impulse]

21 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

As much as I hold the bib in contempt, that is not why they are doing this. 

 

It’s an attempt to avoid negative publicity when the the road death figures are published. 

 

 

Problem being the unintended consequences when a lot of those people take scooters instead. 

 

Riding in the back of a pickup is probably still a lot safer than riding a scooter.

 

[xen]

It will interesting where the BiB set up there checkpoints , in that will they be close to a train or bus station so the passengers in the pick-up tray will be off-loaded to continue their journey by other transport or will they be left at the Crossroads after the fine is   paid or will they be sent on their way to the next fine collecting checkpoint. If the passengers are allowed to continue then it is merely fund raising for the BiB and not an learning exercise for the Thais in road safety.

[mikebell]

18 hours ago, merlin2002 said:

Here's an idea for national police chief Jakthip Chaijinda. Why not get the police to enforce the law 24/7 for all the calendar days in a year, not just the selected holiday periods such as New Year, Songkran etc... too much like hard work for your stressed out officers, having to work for a whole year? 

Or even work at night which is when most drunks hit the road.

[superal]

15 hours ago, Nip said:

I recall as a child in my country when bus drivers went on strike the army dusted down the troop carriers etc and they replaced the busses. Maybe the Thai army could stop beating each other up and run the routes north and south at least? That is if they really care. Its not a solution and some will argue the troop carriers not legal also but it kept my country ticking over.

The police making this statement is only telling what everyone already knows and not just this time of the year but all year long . So they know the dangers on Thai roads which are far to many to list , however if they make a statement there should be an alternative action to be taken to convey the low paid workers travelling to see their families .

            Nip ,  You have come up with a possible solution , with the army using their transport to help mitigate the carnage especially as we have a military state at the moment .

         I mentioned a couple of days ago in the " Pick Up " discussion that there is a good reason to put on subsidized travel at peak holiday times and this could be an action that would be seen to show care for the lower paid people . 

      It must be embarrassing for the well informed Thai people that there country holds such a bad reputation for road safety and their powers that be seem to not be over concerned or bothered to do anything constructive to solve the problems .    All back to normal in a months time   

[YetAnother]

19 hours ago, merlin2002 said:

stressed out officers

hope there is a lot of sarcasm behind that; i used to bicycle to my policeman friend's city to join him in a 2 hour beer sipping lunch; 

we would go to a 'policeman's restaurant' and there would be police at all the tables around us, beers all around, they would be there before we got there, still there when we left

[4MyEgo]

23 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I fully understand the reaction of those who have been using pick up trucks as transport and can't afford other modes of transport. However, the law says it is illegal and while that may be unpopular, it won't be the first or last unpopular law. As per the seat belt issue, it is designed to save lives, and that is more important than some inconvenience. I fully applaud the call to confiscate vehicles of drink drivers, of which there are way too many. Only when the cops start getting tough with the free and easy attitude on the roads, will be start to see the appalling death toll reduced.

I totally agree, and also see that the fines for not wearing helmets in Bangkok are increasing to 1,000 baht over Xmas, which in my opinion should remain enforce and spread around the country, that with the increase of speed detectors being rolled out and finally a demerit system, now Thailand will start to see lives saved, if the force can deliver what they have been trained to do, to serve and to save.

Edited December 19, 2017 by 4MyEgo

[hathairat2711]

ThaiPBS English‏ @ThaiPBSEnglish 18m18 minutes ago

More

The ban against passengers riding on the back of pickup trucks postponed for next year

 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/passengers-allowed-ride-back-pickup-trucks-another-year/

[manchega]

19 hours ago, CGW said:

I don't believe you have to be Thai to explain this, in every industry safety is based on cost saving, a good example of this is scaffolding on a building, if the cost is 500.000 baht to safely scaffold a building or it is 200.000 baht to 'manage" the cost, which means in the worst case scenario you lose one person and have to pay out 100k for inferior scaffold, guess which wins!

In Thailand a cost of a life is still not realised, they consider people disposable, I have often wondered what happens to all the injured? there must be villages full of maimed people who are unable to be productive due to accidents!

You also have to have standards and laws, until Thailand can get people to uphold standards and laws there is going to be no change!

I think the cost of dead person can be a lot more than 100 k.  Just imagine a civil case being made, I know these happen in road accidents and most try to pay family members of deceased top avoid the court process in which one discovers that any accident with a bike is the fault of car driver.

Cost of one person in scaffold example is far more than 500 kbht, can result in loss of contract , rep etc.  

No the psychology I want to understand is the it won't happen to me

[khounteen]

One man's idea another man's hell.

[Confuscious]

"The chief said Saturday that 80% of accidents are caused by people disobeying the traffic regulations."

"NUFF said that 100% of accidents are caused by police not doing their job and make drivers obey the laws."
 

(Sorry, could not resists that.)

[oldhippy]

1 hour ago, hathairat2711 said:

ThaiPBS English‏ @ThaiPBSEnglish 18m18 minutes ago

More

The ban against passengers riding on the back of pickup trucks postponed for next year

 

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/passengers-allowed-ride-back-pickup-trucks-another-year/

That article starts with the best Monty Python style joke ever:

 

Police will continue to postpone the ban against passengers riding on the back of pickup trucks for next year unless it is deemed dangerous to the passengers, Pol Gen Srivara Rangsibrahmanakul, the deputy national police chief, said Monday(Dec 19).

 

 

 

 

 

[Bundooman]

On 12/18/2017 at 9:55 AM, jvs said:

I fully agree with what you are saying but why come up with this idea now.

Many people have planned the trip home already,if the government had just told the people after Songkran the law would be strictly enforced from then on it would have giving people time to adjust and plan accordingly.Two weeks before the holiday?I think they could have done a lot better than this.

I have to diagree in that if the government had just told the people after Songkran that the law would be strictly enforced from then on, it would have been totally disregarded at Christmas by the majority of poor people and those who feel 'entitled?'

[DieterWiehe]

On 12/18/2017 at 10:15 AM, janclaes47 said:

 

Let me correct that chief

 

80% of accidents are caused by people disobeying the never enforced and made up on the spot traffic regulations

most of the Drivers don't know  the traffic regulations. if the do the just don't care about the traffic regulations.

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

I have to diagree in that if the government had just told the people after Songkran that the law would be strictly enforced from then on, it would have been totally disregarded at Christmas by the majority of poor people and those who feel 'entitled?'

I wonder why nobody takes this or any other previous governments seriously, when they say: the law will be enforced.

Suggestions? Anyone?

 

 

[mauGR1]

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I wonder why nobody takes this or any other previous governments seriously, when they say: the law will be enforced.

Suggestions? Anyone?

 

 

Well, i rather prefer this kind of law enforcement, as a father who threaten his son with harsh punishment to keep him in line, but in the end forgives him.

The opposite of the West, where you are constantly ambushed by cops and cameras and you have to pay huge fines for any slight misbehaviour on the road.

Still, i pray for the Thais to learn some better driving skills, as the numbers of road casualties is truly appalling.

[oldhippy]

9 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, i rather prefer this kind of law enforcement, as a father who threaten his son with harsh punishment to keep him in line, but in the end forgives him.

The opposite of the West, where you are constantly ambushed by cops and cameras and you have to pay huge fines for any slight misbehaviour on the road.

Still, i pray for the Thais to learn some better driving skills, as the numbers of road casualties is truly appalling.

A middle way perhaps, between Europe and Thailand?

 

[EVENKEEL]

The Police have already agreed to by pass the sitting in back of truck these holidays. Happy New Year.

[metisdead]

As the police have done a "U-turn" on this please continue in the updated topic here:

 

Thai police "being kind" in mother of all New Year road carnage "U-Turns"!