Reasons of change

[webfact]

U.S. House approves biggest tax overhaul in 30 years; Senate next

By David Morgan and Amanda Becker

 

FILE PHOTO: The U.S. Congress Capitol Dome (L) building is pictured in Washington, DC, U.S. October 4, 2013. REUTERS/Jonathan Ernst/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Republican-controlled U.S. House of Representatives approved sweeping, debt-financed tax legislation on Tuesday, sending the bill to the Senate, where lawmakers were due to take up the package later in the evening.

 

The biggest overhaul of the U.S. tax system in more than 30 years could be signed into law by President Donald Trump as soon as Wednesday, if both chambers of Congress approve it.

 

With Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin watching from the gallery, the House passed the bill by a vote of 227-203, overcoming united opposition from Democrats and 12 Republicans who voted against it.

 

Passage was all but certain in the Republican-controlled Senate, as well.

 

The plan includes steep tax cuts for corporations and wealthy taxpayers, as well as temporary tax cuts for some individuals and families. It repeals a section of the Obamacare health system and allows oil drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, just two of many narrow changes added to the bill to secure sufficient to win its passage.

 

Middle-income households would see an average tax cut of $900 next year, while the wealthiest 1 percent of Americans would see an average cut of $51,000, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Centre, a think tank in Washington.

 

Republicans insist the package will boost the economy and job growth. They also see the measure as key to retaining their majorities in the House and Senate in elections next November.

 

"Today, we give the people of this country their money back. This is their money, after all," House Speaker Paul Ryan said shortly before the vote.

 

Ryan was interrupted twice by protesters. "You're lying!" one woman shouted.

 

Democrats say the bill will widen the income gap between rich and poor Americans, while adding $1.5 trillion over the next 10 years to the mounting $20 trillion U.S. national debt.

 

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi called the bill a "Frankenstein monster" riddled with carve-outs and loopholes that falls far short of the Republican promise of simplifying the tax code.

 

"This monster will come back to haunt them," she said on the House floor.

 

The plan includes a steep tax cut for businesses and temporary tax cuts for individuals. Middle-income households would see an average tax cut of $900 next year, while the wealthiest 1 percent would see an average cut of $51,000, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Centre.

 

Some 52 percent of adults oppose the tax plan, while 27 percent support it, according to Reuters/Ipsos polling.

 

The end-of-year sprint represents a remarkable recovery of Republican fortunes since the middle of this year, when the party's drive to dismantle former Democratic President Barack Obama's Obamacare healthcare law crumbled in the Senate and prospects for a tax overhaul seemed doomed by party infighting.

 

Republicans control the 100-seat Senate by only a 52-48 margin and can afford to lose support from no more than two party lawmakers.

 

Republican Senator Jeff Flake was still undecided on Tuesday. Senator John McCain, who has brain cancer, was spending time with family in Arizona.

 

Vice President Mike Pence took the precaution of rescheduling a trip to Egypt and Israel for January so he would be on hand this week in case his tie-breaking voting power is needed to ensure Senate passage of the bill.

 

(Additional reporting by Susan Cornwell; Writing by Andy Sullivan; Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Bill Trott)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-12-20

[jackh]

MAGA...keep on trucking!

 

[riclag]

I'm loving the tax cut bill. Eliminating the Obamacare mandate is one of many ways I'm saving my money .Living in Thailand and not paying fines close to $800 in 2018 and every year after by the Obamacare Mandate because I don't want it. You see ,it's mandated or was that if you didn't carry mandated Government (Obanacare plan) Medical Insurance with required minimum coverage's, you must pay a tax.

 

 

 

   

Edited December 20, 2017 by riclag

[wwest5829]

Republicans are betting that working middle class taxpayers will be so happy with that average $900.00 reduction that they will not care that their benefit is temporary while the wealty tax breaks remain. They may be correct, the working middle class is frustrated/angry as a result of the economic squeeze (part of the wealth gap). We will have to see the real results in the 2018 midterm elections. In the meantime, $1.46 more debt is financing this tax reduction...fiddle dee, we will worry about when tomorrow comes. My bet is, the republicans will want to declare a debt crisis and go after the social program spending ...but not until after the elections. Me? Retired, living in a lower cost country where I can live better than on my income in the US. Of course, they are coming for my Social Security and Medicare so aside from my idealism...well, you can guess I stand opposed to this gross expansion of the wealth gap...

[riclag]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

Republicans are betting that working middle class taxpayers will be so happy with that average $900.00 reduction that they will not care that their benefit is temporary while the wealty tax breaks remain. They may be correct, the working middle class is frustrated/angry as a result of the economic squeeze (part of the wealth gap). We will have to see the real results in the 2018 midterm elections. In the meantime, $1.46 more debt is financing this tax reduction...fiddle dee, we will worry about when tomorrow comes. My bet is, the republicans will want to declare a debt crisis and go after the social program spending ...but not until after the elections. Me? Retired, living in a lower cost country where I can live better than on my income in the US. Of course, they are coming for my Social Security and Medicare so aside from my idealism...well, you can guess I stand opposed to this gross expansion of the wealth gap...

I see there is some common ground."The $1.46 is  more debt is financing this tax reduction".This will be over 10 years and the expected 3 to 4 % growth in the GDP will cover that unless the Dem's some how sabotage it just out of spite.As far as a debt crisis ,that's all speculation (scare scenario).Now the old scare tactic  that the GOP is coming for our SS.It has to be tweaked .To many people sucking off the system that never put into the system. My guess is If your over 62 you should be grandfathered in(62-66) without being affected by them raising the minimum age to 70.

I also will save on simplification of the tax forms. I'LL be able to do away with my $225 accountant fee and do it my self  

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by riclag

[thaibeachlovers]

Apparently a done deal by now. Passed in the senate, and going back to the house to rubber stamp the amended version.

Should be signed soon.

Hurrah for the GOP actually putting aside all the BS that they exhibited when they sabotaged the ACA repeal.

Hurrah for the man that made it happen.

 

Unfortunately all we will be hearing from now on is pathetic attempts by the Dems to say how unfair it is because rich folks get to keep more of their money than lower paid people. As a socialist I don't mind rich folk being taxed a lot, but there is no way it would have passed if it wasn't for a compromise. While not the best deal, better than the present status quo.

I just hope the stock market doesn't go mad, then implode. I don't own stocks, but it probably wouldn't be good if it did.

 

Anyway, at the very least we won't have the usual posters coming on to crow about himself losing again.

 

[riclag]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Apparently a done deal by now. Passed in the senate, and going back to the house to rubber stamp the amended version.

Should be signed soon.

Hurrah for the GOP actually putting aside all the BS that they exhibited when they sabotaged the ACA repeal.

Hurrah for the man that made it happen.

 

Unfortunately all we will be hearing from now on is pathetic attempts by the Dems to say how unfair it is because rich folks get to keep more of their money than lower paid people. As a socialist I don't mind rich folk being taxed a lot, but there is no way it would have passed if it wasn't for a compromise. While not the best deal, better than the present status quo.

I just hope the stock market doesn't go mad, then implode. I don't own stocks, but it probably wouldn't be good if it did.

 

Anyway, at the very least we won't have the usual posters coming on to crow about himself losing again.

 

Good to see you make a rare appearance TBL 

Record high for the stock market. My 401k has grown 25 % since that "man child" was elected.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, riclag said:

Good to see you make a rare appearance TBL 

Record high for the stock market. My 401k has grown 25 % since that "man child" was elected.

 

I'm anticipating a lack of the usual hate fest on this thread, so I thought it safe to make a comment.

Hurrah for the 'man child". He showed them large. Be celebrations in the W H tonight.

[Grouse]

Isn't it astonishing how far and fast the Americans have fallen so quickly. Of course they only care about money (vulgar), but they will learn soon enough that it's not a good idea to be despised, almost universally, by the rest of the world. It will end in tears; that I am sure ?

[riclag]

6 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Isn't it astonishing how far and fast the Americans have fallen so quickly. Of course they only care about money (vulgar), but they will learn soon enough that it's not a good idea to be despised, almost universally, by the rest of the world. It will end in tears; that I am sure ?

jeepers creepers aren't we entitled to be celebratory! America has just got a Christmas Present! 

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, riclag said:

jeepers creepers aren't we entitled to be celebratory! America has just got a Christmas Present! 

What? Borrowing another 1.5 Trillion? For what? Trickle down economics? Good luck with that ?

 

I mean it's not as if your country doesn't need s facelift?

[riclag]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

What? Borrowing another 1.5 Trillion? For what? Trickle down economics? Good luck with that ?

 

I mean it's not as if your country doesn't need s facelift?

It's 1.46 and read post 5

[Grouse]

6 minutes ago, riclag said:

It's 1.46 and read post 5

Ok, I read it.

 

Cutting corporation tax from 35% to 21% (or whatever) in one shot, on a permenant basis is, et, foolhardy?

 

There is a sunset clause on the smaller income tax cuts

 

I understand it will increase your debt by 2.5 trillion?

 

This at a time when you need capital to rebuild what was once a great country

 

Doesnt sound like a wise move to me. But hey, free women and beer? What's not to like! God bless America and happy, er, holidays? Holy days? Christmas!

[the guest]

USA a country which still doesn't have a NHS for all regardless of income, creed, color or race. Claims to be a first-world country, and yet Cuba has a far superior health system. How many paid holidays does it's citizens get per year, how much time is given for allowing it citizens to have quality time with the family ? The answer is: 0 

 

Tax cuts will really make American lives that much better will it?

 

USA is a backward country in many ways, what happened?

 

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, riclag said:

I see there is some common ground."The $1.46 is  more debt is financing this tax reduction".This will be over 10 years and the expected 3 to 4 % growth in the GDP will cover that unless the Dem's some how sabotage it just out of spite.As far as a debt crisis ,that's all speculation (scare scenario).Now the old scare tactic  that the GOP is coming for our SS.It has to be tweaked .To many people sucking off the system that never put into the system. My guess is If your over 62 you should be grandfathered in(62-66) without being affected by them raising the minimum age to 70.

I also will save on simplification of the tax forms. I'LL be able to do away with my $225 accountant fee and do it my self  

 

who expects 3-4 percent growth? Almost no economists expect it? and this kind of nonsense has been promised before? remember the bush tax cuts? basically they put a lot of money into the pockets of the wealthy who started to invest it in CDO's and such. The result? The worst financial disaster since the great recession. To the right wing. tax cuts are magic!

[riclag]

1 hour ago, the guest said:

USA a country which still doesn't have a NHS for all regardless of income, creed, color or race. Claims to be a first-world country, and yet Cuba has a far superior health system. How many paid holidays does it's citizens get per year, how much time is given for allowing it citizens to have quality time with the family ? The answer is: 0 

 

Tax cuts will really make American lives that much better will it?

 

USA is a backward country in many ways, what happened?

 

 

 

Its not etched in stone that tax cuts will make  our lives that much better. It will give most people a break.As far as backwards, maybe your right. I want to live in Thailand(inexpensive) .Some Thai's want to live in America . 

[wayned]

Well it's a done deal and I just watched POTUS's celebration on CNN.  One thing they said was that everybody will start seeing their increases in their February paychecks.  That may be so, but everybody needs to go back and review the number of deductions being claimed with their employer, especially those in Ca., and NY., and update their withholding tax exemptions otherwise they might be in a rude awakening in 2019 when they have to file under the new rules, and have to come up with their underpayments out of their pockets..  I always claimed enough exemptions to effectively "break even" at the end of the year.

 

Now we just have to see and wait what is going to happen with the redo of the entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare.  There were rumors in the past that they were going to update Social Security so that you had to be in the US a certain number of days each year to continue to get your payments.  That would do me in as I haven't been in the US since 29 March 1998 and have no intentions of returning anytime soon unless they send me back when I kick the bucket.

[sirineou]

16 hours ago, riclag said:

I'm loving the tax cut bill. Eliminating the Obamacare mandate is one of many ways I'm saving my money .Living in Thailand and not paying fines close to $800 in 2018 and every year after by the Obamacare Mandate because I don't want it. You see ,it's mandated or was that if you didn't carry mandated Government (Obanacare plan) Medical Insurance with required minimum coverage's, you must pay a tax.

 

 

 

   

If you live outside the US for more than 330 days per year  you are exempt 

[lannarebirth]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

What? Borrowing another 1.5 Trillion? For what? Trickle down economics? Good luck with that ?

 

I mean it's not as if your country doesn't need s facelift?

Trust me, the facelift, or the promise of one is the next bit of bullshit to be shoveled.

[KarenBravo]

Yup, and in a year, or two, you'll see the biggest cuts in social security programs to pay for it all when they find out that trickle-down economics still doesn't work and the economy won't grow to the required 3% to 4% annually.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to the Daily Mail has been removed as the Daily Mail is blocked in Thailand:

 

[FritsSikkink]

23 hours ago, riclag said:

I'm loving the tax cut bill. Eliminating the Obamacare mandate is one of many ways I'm saving my money .Living in Thailand and not paying fines close to $800 in 2018 and every year after by the Obamacare Mandate because I don't want it. You see ,it's mandated or was that if you didn't carry mandated Government (Obanacare plan) Medical Insurance with required minimum coverage's, you must pay a tax.

 

 

 

   

Do you have any health insurance here?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Do you have any health insurance here?

Whether he does or doesn't isn't relevant. What is relevant though, is that the ACA MANDATED that everyone had to pay for it, whether they wanted it or not. Hardly something a capitalist country should have. Either go socialist like the UK with it's NHS, or stay capitalist and buy what you want or can afford. It's the trying to be both that really annoys people.

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Whether he does or doesn't isn't relevant. What is relevant though, is that the ACA MANDATED that everyone had to pay for it, whether they wanted it or not. Hardly something a capitalist country should have. Either go socialist like the UK with it's NHS, or stay capitalist and buy what you want or can afford. It's the trying to be both that really annoys people.

Which works fine in other countries

Edited December 21, 2017 by FritsSikkink

[ilostmypassword]

16 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Whether he does or doesn't isn't relevant. What is relevant though, is that the ACA MANDATED that everyone had to pay for it, whether they wanted it or not. Hardly something a capitalist country should have. Either go socialist like the UK with it's NHS, or stay capitalist and buy what you want or can afford. It's the trying to be both that really annoys people.

Nonsense. Many highly developed capitalist countries have programs similar to the ACA. What you're proposing is a death sentence to people who have the bad luck to have serious preconditions or not have enough money to afford the sky high costs of US medical care.