Relative Costs Thailand vs US

[lannarebirth]

1 hour ago, GinBoy2 said:

Next week....

 

You must live on the Rez, cuz everywhere else it's pretty darn cold.

 

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/USSD0315:1:US

 

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/57501:4:US

 

Unless you live in Sturgis or Deadwood. It's a wee bit warmer there.

[GinBoy2]

11 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

You must live on the Rez, cuz everywhere else it's pretty darn cold.

 

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/USSD0315:1:US

 

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/57501:4:US

 

Unless you live in Sturgis or Deadwood. It's a wee bit warmer there.

Thats the forecast for Rapid City, anyplace tucked up against the Black Hills is a lot milder than in the Prairie Lands, especially east of the river

 

https://weather.com/weather/tenday/l/57701:4:US

[mania]

On 1/5/2018 at 2:59 AM, sirineou said:

 You can compare until the cows come home but it will not get you anywhere.  You need to look at the bottom line.

As with anything in life there good things and there bad things with everything.

Then there is the freedom in Thailand that allows you   to do some things less expensive but does not offer you the protections of more regulation .

 

True that

 

When we first lived in Thailand I thought it was much more free

After 5 years we moved back to the US where we still kept a home I built year ago.

 

Funny after I was back here in 2016 I felt more free

 

Free from asking Immigration permission every year to stay

Then after jumping thru hoops because that is the nicest way to describe Chiang Mai immigration these days

 

They still want me to check in every 90 days, Ok not so bad if online system is working hell if its not.

But  I have permission to stay a year? Plus anytime I went to another province for more than 24 hours

I had to check in upon returning especially if I used a hotel in another province as they would report your stay yada yada yada

1600 baht fine if you didnt they caught it at yearly renewal that you stayed outside CM

 

Then although I have permission to stay a year I need permission to leave if I want to visit home or any other country outside Thailand

aka: re-entry permit ( even though I clearly have a 1 year permission in my passport right?)

 

Cops? Oh dont even start....Here I almost never see one, and if I do they are not going to stop

me unless I do something wrong

Thailand...In Chiang Mai daily  will usually see them & many times can avoid them  as they are creatures of habit, but if I am coming around the moat or

on some highways surprised by a block I can be 100% certain I will be stopped & a fleece attempt will usually

ensue till I flatly tell them in Thai I am 100% legal from license on down to reg/parabol etc etc etc But this all takes time

 

So yeah I agree good & bad every where but for now mainly good here.

We do still have a house in the country of Thailand & there it is in fact more mellow

Sold the Chiang Mai condo

 

But to the main point of cost in Thailand & here (here being one of the most expensive US States)

It may surprise but for us it is almost exactly the same to the penny per year

BUT...and this I think is the big thing, We own in both places so do not pay rent

 

Same for trucks/scooter etc

Car insurance much cheaper here

Electric much cheaper in Thailand

Things oddly balance out

 

Food same but we eat at home here & mostly eat out there

(Food actually better more healthy here because my wife is a great cook)

Plus we have a large garden & greenhouse here

 

Anyway, we are thinking of moving back to Thailand in 2019 if all is well with govt

as we miss family & friends there

Or not who knows eh?

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by mania

[Pib]

Cost of living can vary so much from person-to-person depending on their life style, where they live in a country,  taxes taken into consideration, medical costs, just so many things need to be taken into consideration.   Some people are perfectly happy living on a minimal life style; others want more than that. 

 

Is Thailand cheaper to live in than the U.S.?  Sure, when you try to make an apples-to-apples comparison like renting in both countries vs renting in one but already owning in the other, etc.   I expect most any cost comparison website will show overall cost of living in Thailand is cheaper than the U.S. like the website below result....I didn't pick any particular city in either country...just using a country-wide average.

 

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+States&country2=Thailand

[mania]

13 minutes ago, Pib said:

   I expect most any cost comparison website will show overall cost of living in Thailand is cheaper than the U.S. like the website below result....I didn't pick any particular city in either country...just using a country-wide average.

 

 

That website is far from reality in our case

 

In fact we keep very good records & food here shopping at places like Safeway & Target is cheaper per month by about $65 than Thailand

Shopping at Big C & the usual talads for veggies etc

That site claims food is 40% more here which is not true

 

Same goes for their other sectors except I would agree restaurants are more expensive here by their claimed %

But here we do not eat out as in our opinion the food out is tasteless 

 

Consumer prices for things like clothes electronics etc cheaper here & far better quality

I think that is due to major buying here affords better sales no VAT import taxes etc

But clothes for instance is much higher quality & price is same or less than Thailand where quality was quite poor except for name brands

like Camel Active or Levis etc in which case again will cost much more than here even if made in Thailand

 

Again we do not compare rents as we own in both

 

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by mania

[MaeJoMTB]

On 1/1/2018 at 12:16 AM, GinBoy2 said:

I own my house, so thats a sunk cost, I pay $2400 annual property tax

Your property tax on the house you own in the USA, was the same as the rental I paid on my last Thai 2 bedroom rented house.

[Pib]

25 minutes ago, mania said:

 

Again we do not compare rents as we own in both

What's the annual property tax for your US and Thai homes?

[Pib]

30 minutes ago, mania said:

 

But clothes for instance is much higher quality & price is same or less than Thailand where quality was quite poor except for name brands

like Camel Active or Levis etc in which case again will cost much more than here even if made in Thailand

 

I've tried to do a price comparison of winter clothing between the US and Thailand but just can't seem to find winter weather clothing like below in Thai stores.   

 

[mania]

12 minutes ago, Pib said:

What's the annual property tax for your US and Thai homes?

You know it is funny but here we get a large homeowners exemption if it is our principal residence which it is....

So we pay only 25% of the exact same home I built for another couple down the street.(because they loved my design & wanted the same exact home)

But because they rent theirs out as a bed & breakfast they pay 4x as much as I do

 

Then when I turned 60 they gave me another large exemption

So now I pay only 15% as much as they do for the exact same home

 

On the Thai home ( in my wife's name) we pay no tax it is in the sticks & the Thai's have that rule about valuation under X amount etc

 

The condo we had in CM we use to pay about $100 more in fees per year than we pay here for property tax

Edited January 7, 2018 by mania

[mania]

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

I've tried to do a price comparison of winter clothing between the US and Thailand but just can't seem to find winter weather clothing like below in Thai stores.   

Hahah we do not have that type of temps here

Although I live at decent elevation & we do see the low 50's in the morning this time of year

But most days are 23c/73F

 

I cant say I miss the 40 Celsius or bad air quality but I do miss Thailand for other reasons mentioned previously

[Pib]

But what do you pay when the percentage exemption dust settles?  $300, $500, $750, etc. per year, etc?  And if you are paying $500 with all your exemptions then those without exemption get a pay significantly more.  I expect it's a fair amount because as you know in the great majority of U.S. cities/counties property tax is the primary to fund public schooling.   Additionally, property tax varies greatly across the U.S....like how midwest states generally have low property tax but places like the north east have HIGH property taxes.

 

 And yeap, Thailand basically does not have any property tax on a residence although they are slowing push through such a tax which will still be very low once implemented.

[MaeJoMTB]

12 minutes ago, mania said:

You know it is funny but here we get a large homeowners exemption if it is our principal residence which it is....

So we pay only 25% of the exact same home I built for another couple down the street.(because they loved my design & wanted the same exact home)

But because they rent theirs out as a bed & breakfast they pay 4x as much as I do

 

Then when I turned 60 they gave me another large exemption

So now I pay only 15% as much as they do for the exact same home

 

On the Thai home ( in my wife's name) we pay no tax it is in the sticks & the Thai's have that rule about valuation under X amount etc

 

The condo we had in CM we use to pay about $100 more in fees per year than we pay here for property tax

Condo fees aren't property tax.

My wife pays around 40bht a year in property tax on her house in CM, while you claimed you pay $2,400 on your house in the USA.

There are no exemptions to property tax in Thailand, it's just most land offices only collect it on sale/purchase of the property.

 

I also wonder about your health insurance in the USA.

My family have free health care in Thailand, I have free health care in Europe.

Edited January 7, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[mania]

24 minutes ago, Pib said:

But what do you pay when the percentage exemption dust settles?  $300, $500, $750, etc. per year, etc?  And if you are paying $500 with all your exemptions then those without exemption get a pay significantly more.  I expect it's a fair amount because as you know in the great majority of U.S. cities/counties property tax is the primary to fund public schooling.   Additionally, property tax varies greatly across the U.S....like how midwest states generally have low property tax but places like the north east have HIGH property taxes.

 

 And yeap, Thailand basically does not have any property tax on a residence although they are slowing push through such a tax which will still be very low once implemented.

 

Yes your right (I dont post my exact taxes etc online) but yes as you say those without exemptions pay significantly more ...as they should

As in the example I gave the folks I built for make their yearly taxes disappear renting out that home as a BB for just 1 or 2 night per month

the other 28 days are income/ profit

Yet their customers drive on our roads etc so why not?

 

These same folks I use as an example own 3 such homes as B&B's but they also have a very nice principal residence & get the homeowners exemption on that unit

So overall I would say it is a very fair system & even if I had no income my property tax would seem more than fair to me for what I get in return

 

Great Fire Department a few miles away, Trustworthy Police Department,  Road maintenance even down to the mowing of grass on sides of road etc.

etc etc

 

I am not saying I would not like zero taxes but for this small amount seems very fair what we get in exchange

 

Not to mention I can own my home here in both our names Although my wife has dual citizenship anyway

 

Lastly I do not mean to undermine the fact we love Thailand & as I said hope to move back in 2019 if govt is stable

 

All things aside I do enjoy life in both places. Although being a cyclist & swimmer I do a bit better here weather/safety wise

as the roads are not very busy & the drivers are skilled

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by mania

[mania]

10 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Condo fees aren't property tax.

My wife pays around 40bht a year in property tax on her house in CM, while you claimed you pay $2,400 on your house in the USA.

There are no exemptions to property tax in Thailand, it's just most land offices only collect it on sale/purchase of the property.

 

I think you have me confused with someone else? I do not pay $2400 & never said I did

 

As for Condo fees yes as I said those are fees not taxes & we pay no tax on our Thai home

[MaeJoMTB]

Just now, mania said:

I think you have me confused with someone else? I do not pay $2400 & never said I did

Sorry, confused you with 'GinBoy'.

My bad.

[sirineou]

5 hours ago, mania said:

 

True that

 

When we first lived in Thailand I thought it was much more free

After 5 years we moved back to the US where we still kept a home I built year ago.

 

Funny after I was back here in 2016 I felt more free

 

Free from asking Immigration permission every year to stay

Then after jumping thru hoops because that is the nicest way to describe Chiang Mai immigration these days

 

They still want me to check in every 90 days, Ok not so bad if online system is working hell if its not.

But  I have permission to stay a year? Plus anytime I went to another province for more than 24 hours

I had to check in upon returning especially if I used a hotel in another province as they would report your stay yada yada yada

1600 baht fine if you didnt they caught it at yearly renewal that you stayed outside CM

 

Then although I have permission to stay a year I need permission to leave if I want to visit home or any other country outside Thailand

aka: re-entry permit ( even though I clearly have a 1 year permission in my passport right?)

 

Cops? Oh dont even start....Here I almost never see one, and if I do they are not going to stop

me unless I do something wrong

Thailand...In Chiang Mai daily  will usually see them & many times can avoid them  as they are creatures of habit, but if I am coming around the moat or

on some highways surprised by a block I can be 100% certain I will be stopped & a fleece attempt will usually

ensue till I flatly tell them in Thai I am 100% legal from license on down to reg/parabol etc etc etc But this all takes time

 

So yeah I agree good & bad every where but for now mainly good here.

We do still have a house in the country of Thailand & there it is in fact more mellow

Sold the Chiang Mai condo

 

But to the main point of cost in Thailand & here (here being one of the most expensive US States)

It may surprise but for us it is almost exactly the same to the penny per year

BUT...and this I think is the big thing, We own in both places so do not pay rent

 

Same for trucks/scooter etc

Car insurance much cheaper here

Electric much cheaper in Thailand

Things oddly balance out

 

Food same but we eat at home here & mostly eat out there

(Food actually better more healthy here because my wife is a great cook)

Plus we have a large garden & greenhouse here

 

Anyway, we are thinking of moving back to Thailand in 2019 if all is well with govt

as we miss family & friends there

Or not who knows eh?

 

 

 

 

 Your conflicted sentiment is shared by many.

Immigration is certainly an issue we all struggle with , being, with good reason, one of the most often posted subjects here on TVF.  I am sure that as technology develops the online reporting will become easier .

We all love Thailand and all that it has to offer,  but many of as also love our country that we have grown in, feel and comfortable, familiar and safe in .

So as you have also chosen, not closing doors is in my opinion prudent , who knows what the future will bring.

Nothing wrong with having the best of both worlds. who knows by the time you come back they might have worked out the online immigration reporting. 

 

[geriatrickid]

On 12/31/2017 at 2:52 PM, GinBoy2 said:

To add to another comment regarding water.

 

In Thailand my monthly water ran about ฿200-250/month.

Here I pay $40/month unlimited

Your US tap water is potable is it not? What of the additional costs you incur to have potable water in Thailand?

 

 

 

On 12/31/2017 at 8:07 PM, simoh1490 said:

There are some items that are just not reasonable to compare because they are not native to Thailand, imported and/or heavily taxed, motor vehicle imported foodstuff and liquor are three such items.  If you want to make a reasonable comparison, perhaps compare pork, chicken and native beef, vegetables, electricity bills, gasoline prices, milk etc.

The comparison was reasonable because he used Hawaii where the products referenced mostly all have to be imported. Electricity in Hawaii is not hydro based and is fossil fuel derived. Hawaii is an expensive place.

[amvet]

My biggest expense is go go girls.  In the USA it was something like 3,300,000 baht per year.  Here it is 260,000 baht per year.  Big savings. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by amvet

[mania]

14 hours ago, sirineou said:

 

Nothing wrong with having the best of both worlds. who knows by the time you come back they might have worked out the online immigration reporting. 

 

To be honest the Immigration is a big hassle but do-able

 

The one thing that really ripped my heart out is when I realized even doctors there are corrupt

Having experienced it first hand at one of , if not the most well known Hospital chain in Thailand

 

It just really floored me because I realized then & there, while I can speak, read & write Thai & love Thailand the country

this is a real problem there. I thought doctors would be exempt & be an exception to corruption/seeing foreigners as ATM's

(why I thought that in hindsight is beyond me. Since moving back & hearing stories about every sector including monks why should

I think doctors/dentist etc would be any different there?)

 

Especially after living there for years & being able to converse with them in their language & being a good normal person.

I thought somehow I knew everything & was ok with it all...till that

Without going into details I will say that was the saddest day for me. Because I knew right then this would likely be a problem in the future.

 

Should I ever be unfortunate enough to be taken into such a place unconscious I can only imagine what they would tell my wife to help drain any accounts

My wife I know being Thai although quite intelligent would believe them (Thai's rarely question authority) & allow any operations etc at any price

 

As a funny aside my 90 day reminder just popped up on my computer planner for Jan 9th