How are things where you are in Thailand

[geronimo]

There will always be those who are not satisfied. Prayut has done a lot of good since he took over and where I live (suburb of Bangkok) things are looking good too.

[speedtripler]

1 hour ago, scoutman360 said:

This is no different than the U.S., and maybe everywhere? Expansion and growth is global. The things you mentioned, the ups and downs of different areas, are predictable. I was smart to buy in a growth area in the U.S, I suggest people to do the same in Thailand.

Unless your Thai your buying options are a bit limited to condos etc and many people think they're way overpriced 

[xylophone]

9 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

The whole area has an over supply of those 3-4 story townhouse style rows of shops. It’s quite ridiculous how many of those things get built and is such an eyesore. They are also hardly rented out. I would say 70% are empty

This seems similar to what is happening in Kathu, Phuket, where the shop-houses continue to be built, but many are empty and up for sale/rent (and some have been for a few years since first built). And nearby a large housing estate is being built, but to house whom?

 

Nearby in Patong it shows all the signs of growth with new large hotels being built, whereas some smaller guesthouse/hotels are empty and/or struggling to survive, but then to add to the enigma that is Patong, the turnover of these smaller places is brisk!!

[KhunMhee]

Nonthaburi seems to be booming.

[wildewillie89]

The city I am, the Big C and Tesco are currently doing some significant upgrading (bringing in a cinema). Many more housing estates also seem to be going up everywhere and people in my immediate area seem to be renovating. So couldn't be all bad if people can find money to be buying unnecessarily expensive houses and are looking forward to spending their hard earned on luxuries like the movies. The farming prices are probably the thing many are struggling with. 

Don't necessarily agree with what the boys up the top are doing with a lot of things, but from a purely selfish point of view, it would be good if they stayed in for a few more years. Our local Mayor is ex-army and has been ranked top 20 out of the 8,500 odd Mayors in the country in his first term purely from developing the place. It went from not having running water, to having water, free nursery with dental check ups, markets, canals for farmers, juvenile prison, rice research lab, lined roads, even free wifi for the villagers where the introduced exercise equipment is. Also now looks like Immigration will move there, with plans to build a new school to replace the village schools.  

Every Mayor in the province has since elected him to represent the province with the Governor in the hope for further development and he is also in charge to watch over police corruption (already has forced powerful trucking companies to pay road taxes rather than specific police departments). 

[Peterw42]

I am in Jomtien and it appears to be booming, growth etc, "BUT" none of it adds up. No matter what measure you use.

The normal laws of supply and demand dont seem to apply.

It all has to be Debt funded, there is no other explanation.

 

Sizzler in the local mall is full on a Tuesday afternoon, people who apparently dont have to be at a job. One meal at sizzler is a days wages for a teacher, bank employee, etc. These people drove to the mall in a new pick-up, Honda, toyota etc. Repayments on new pick-up etc are half a months salary for a teacher bank employee etc. Again, its Tuesday afternoon and these people are not working.

 

Its booming but It all seems like smoke and mirrors.

 

 

[robblok]

2 hours ago, KhunMhee said:

Nonthaburi seems to be booming.

I agree.. many areas are booming, I live in Nonthaburi

 

Seems only the farmers are complaining.. but i havent seen a year when they were not complaining.

[grollies]

18 hours ago, Stevemercer said:

The price of rural land hasn't changed much, but people's expectations seem to be through the roof. It's hard to get through to the average Thai that the value of land is only what people are willing to pay

The price of rural land has doubled here (north Chon Buri/Chachensao border) in the last 3 years, from B60k to B120k per rai. And that's for sor por kor land.

 

Round here is agri. Rubber, pineapple and palm prices down, tapioca and euca up.

 

There is quite a drug trade going on here which is fuelling some prosperity, youngsters mainly.

 

A lot of farm labour here is Burmese/Cambodian. Chicken farm labourers on B200/day. Builder labourers B300/day.

[55Jay]

I'll go along with that.  Korat City has expanded and improved quite a bit compared to just 5 years ago - if improving highways and building new malls and moo baans are fair metrics to consider.   Suspect folks in the outlying areas who were sitting on large tracts of land, handed down to them or bought before the recent increase in land prices, are cashing in and/or building homes upcountry for retirement.

 

Have noticed a decline in some pockets of farangs/expats.  Brits and Aussie blue collar/middle class in particular have had a rough ride in recent times as their moderate pensions erode with cost of living increases and FOREX woes - a double whammy gutt punch for many of them.  Elderly couple in our local social circle just up'ed sticks and moved back to the UK last week.  Their departure was probably the exception to the rule - sold the house in less than 2 months on the market, sold the car in 2 days flat.  And now they're gone.  Poof!

Edited January 4, 2018 by 55Jay

[maxpower]

On 03/01/2018 at 10:10 AM, steven100 said:

correct .....  the thai Visa farang nayers will try to have you believe that all is doom and gloom ... but in fact it's the opposite with Thailand exports up and GDP up also.

Many projects that were on the back burner for years under previous governments have now been fast tracked and are well into construction especially in the north.

I see new developments opening up in most cities when I travel from the north to Bangkok.  Thailand has had a great 2017 and this year looks even more robust.

Yep everyone in Thailand is rockin and rollin

 

[zaZa9]

I live in a tourist area ( Phuket ) and it appears to be doing very well.

When I go to my gfs town in NSTammerat , it appears to be thriving.

New Or Bor Tor offices , new hospital , expanding Uni , new car dealers...

 

I think the life of Thais is improving here in the South.

[Brunolem]

3 hours ago, maxpower said:

Yep everyone in Thailand is rockin and rollin

 

The thing with debt, at national level, is that it can remain invisible, and painless, for quite a long time...until it doesn't.

Remember the booming economy in the US until 2007?

Since 2008, having (not) learned its lesson, the world has embarked in the largest debt binge ever, led by China and its 350% debt ratio, while the others try to keep pace.

The economy being global, Thailand benefits from this situation, because some of this freshly created money arrives in its coffers, one way or another, either through exports or thanks to tourism.

And of course, thinking that this will last forever, Thailand also increases its debt...because why not if everybody does it?

As a "smart" banker once said: "as long as the music plays, we have to keep on dancing".

His dance ended up costing 80 billion dollars to the American taxpayers!

 

The next crisis that will come sooner than later will strike almost everywhere, and it will feel like 2008 squared, or for Thailand like 1998 squared.

 

One just need to imagine what would happen to the local tourism with a major conflict in Korea...something not unlikely...

 

Fake prosperity, brought about by massive debt, is very fragile, like a house of cards...not much is needed to bring it down...

[simoh1490]

17 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The thing with debt, at national level, is that it can remain invisible, and painless, for quite a long time...until it doesn't.

Remember the booming economy in the US until 2007?

Since 2008, having (not) learned its lesson, the world has embarked in the largest debt binge ever, led by China and its 350% debt ratio, while the others try to keep pace.

The economy being global, Thailand benefits from this situation, because some of this freshly created money arrives in its coffers, one way or another, either through exports or thanks to tourism.

And of course, thinking that this will last forever, Thailand also increases its debt...because why not if everybody does it?

As a "smart" banker once said: "as long as the music plays, we have to keep on dancing".

His dance ended up costing 80 billion dollars to the American taxpayers!

 

The next crisis that will come sooner than later will strike almost everywhere, and it will feel like 2008 squared, or for Thailand like 1998 squared.

 

One just need to imagine what would happen to the local tourism with a major conflict in Korea...something not unlikely...

 

Fake prosperity, brought about by massive debt, is very fragile, like a house of cards...not much is needed to bring it down...

What debt, in Thailand, where? Do you mean the 48% of GDP (not the 100% of GDP as in many western countries).

Edited January 4, 2018 by simoh1490

[sipi]

Our wee village has a few nice new homes being built recently. 

It does seem coincidental that the same families have had their daughters recent weddings.

[Brunolem]

44 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

What debt, in Thailand, where? Do you mean the 48% of GDP (not the 100% of GDP as in many western countries).

The Thai national debt doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Far from being self-sufficient, Thailand relies heavily on exports and tourism (a branch of exports).

Hence its economic health depends a lot of the one of its customers.

 

Having said that, one shouldn't rely too much on official stats.

It is well known that the numbers provided by China, for example, are very far from the reality.

And so is the 4% unemployment rate in the US, not to mention the 2% rate in Thailand.

 

In the last 10 years, sales of new cars have doubled in Thailand, but such is not the case of the population's income.

Minimum wage is still at 300 baht, taxi fares have barely budged, and neither have the prices of the main crops.

So, where does all this new wealth come from?

As in the rest of the world, the answer is straightforward: debt!

 

If you can't see debt in Thailand, you are welcome to visit Isaan...you will be faced with more debt than you can imagine in your wildest dreams!

[grollies]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

The Thai national debt doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things.

Far from being self-sufficient, Thailand relies heavily on exports and tourism (a branch of exports).

Hence its economic health depends a lot of the one of its customers.

 

Having said that, one shouldn't rely too much on official stats.

It is well known that the numbers provided by China, for example, are very far from the reality.

And so is the 4% unemployment rate in the US, not to mention the 2% rate in Thailand.

 

In the last 10 years, sales of new cars have doubled in Thailand, but such is not the case of the population's income.

Minimum wage is still at 300 baht, taxi fares have barely budged, and neither have the prices of the main crops.

So, where does all this new wealth come from?

As in the rest of the world, the answer is straightforward: debt!

 

If you can't see debt in Thailand, you are welcome to visit Isaan...you will be faced with more debt than you can imagine in your wildest dreams!

Well said, I agree.

[Wake Up]

Just traveled north and south Thailand and visited Myramaar and Laos. I saw thai prosperity in many many places. Myramaar is a dump. Laos is becoming Chinese casino heaven. Makes me realize how Thailand is far more advanced that it’s border countries.  If political stability existed I would invest in this country. With the EEC and political stability this place will be even more economically viable and the baht even stronger. 

[lovelomsak]

I would  like to mention that this thread is not about debt. Debt is debt pure and simple.Without it the world would not turn. It has been my experience in life that those who handle debt well prosper on the long term rather than fail. So lets leave debt out of this thread ok. 

 It is about do people see prosperity where they are in  Thailand or do they see doom and gloom. It appears prosperity is what people see, If there appears to be prosperity, could we be so brazen as to suggest Thailand is prospering? It is lsomethig like this  if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck,talks like a duck maybe it is a duck.

  I had little faith in the junta simply because I did approve of how they took power. But not being Thai and totally understanding how their society thinks and reacts I may have been wrong. 

    Maybe it is time some of us from democratic countries opened up our minds and stopped prejudging what is happeniing here. I feel a lot of us are in denial about how well rhis unelected military govt is doing..Perhaps we do not want to accept anything but democracy is good.

  But the reality is Thailand has never seen such wealth  spread around to so many people before in history. Middle class has arrived.

  I cannot judge if it came about because of past govt policies or present govt policies,but I can see it in every day life.   

  .

[Brunolem]

25 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Just traveled north and south Thailand and visited Myramaar and Laos. I saw thai prosperity in many many places. Myramaar is a dump. Laos is becoming Chinese casino heaven. Makes me realize how Thailand is far more advanced that it’s border countries.  If political stability existed I would invest in this country. With the EEC and political stability this place will be even more economically viable and the baht even stronger. 

 

Generally speaking, the more one moves from North to South, the more the economic conditions improve.

Burma was stuck with a North Korean like regime for decades, during which the country went nowhere.

The situation over there is still far from clear.

Laos has a soft communist regime, but communist nonetheless.

The country is quietly entering in the second half of the 20th century.

Cambodia is a basket case, which has yet to recover from its terrible civil war.

Compared to that, Thailand has been like a safe haven.

Yet Malaysia, in the South is doing better, and Singapore much better.

 

In such an environment, Thailand gets an edge for a few reasons.

Being more stable than its Northernly neighbors, the country attracts a lot of international manufacturers in search of abundant, cheap and low qualified manpower.

Employers looking for highly qualified workers will rather set shop in Malaysia or Singapore.

As far as tourism is concerned, Thailand attracts a lot of visitors with a limited budget, while Malaysia catters more specifically to well to do visitors.

One could find a similar situation in Africa where Kenya gets most of the budget groups, while Botswana receives much less, but also much wealthier tourists.

 

So, when it's all said and done, Thailand is a bit of a goldilocks country...just so...not too much of this, not too little of that.

Considering its actual economic structure, with very significant primary (agriculture) and secondary (industrial) sectors, and a very limited social system (support, pensions and all the goodies enjoyed in the West), there is a good chance that Thailand will withstand the major upcoming financial storm much better than many other countries.

So, yes it may be a good place where to invest...moderatly...in farming land for example...not in condominiums!

[Brunolem]

29 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I would  like to mention that this thread is not about debt. Debt is debt pure and simple.Without it the world would not turn. It has been my experience in life that those who handle debt well prosper on the long term rather than fail. So lets leave debt out of this thread ok. 

 It is about do people see prosperity where they are in  Thailand or do they see doom and gloom. It appears prosperity is what people see, If there appears to be prosperity, could we be so brazen as to suggest Thailand is prospering? It is lsomethig like this  if it looks like a duck,walks like a duck,talks like a duck maybe it is a duck.

  I had little faith in the junta simply because I did approve of how they took power. But not being Thai and totally understanding how their society thinks and reacts I may have been wrong. 

    Maybe it is time some of us from democratic countries opened up our minds and stopped prejudging what is happeniing here. I feel a lot of us are in denial about how well rhis unelected military govt is doing..Perhaps we do not want to accept anything but democracy is good.

  But the reality is Thailand has never seen such wealth  spread around to so many people before in history. Middle class has arrived.

  I cannot judge if it came about because of past govt policies or present govt policies,but I can see it in every day life.   

  .

It is far from clear that the government has anything to do with the economic success of the country.

Generally, the less the government is involved in the economy, the better.

Socialism and communism (= massive government intervention) have shown again and again to lead to disaster.

Actually, socialism is leading the West to ruin.

Having said that, as I wrote in a post above, Thailand being very reliant on exports is very much influenced by the economic health of its partners.

Just look at what happened with the Russians, then the Chinese.

At some point, the Russians were everywhere, buying everything, fueling a boom, especially in construction.

Then the price of oil went South, and the Ruble followed suit, losing half of its value almost overnight.

And, as quickly as they had appeared from nowhere, the Russians disappeared, living Thailand with a hangover, especially in the construction sector.

Luckily for Thailand, the Chinese were starting to move out of their borders and soon replaced the Russians, at least in volume.

But, such dependency is always dangerous.

If a conflict starts in Korea, Chinese tourists will disappear even faster than the Russians.

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Brunolem
Rephrasing

[lovelomsak]

9 hours ago, Brunolem said:

It is far from clear that the government has anything to do with the economic success of the country.

Generally, the less the government is involved in the economy, the better.

Socialism and communism (= massive government intervention) have shown again and again to lead to disaster.

Actually, socialism is leading the West to ruin.

Having said that, as I wrote in a post above, Thailand being very reliant on exports is very much influenced by the economic health of its partners.

Just look at what happened with the Russians, then the Chinese.

At some point, the Russians were everywhere, buying everything, fueling a boom, especially in construction.

Then the price of oil went South, and the Ruble followed suit, losing half of its value almost overnight.

And, as quickly as they had appeared from nowhere, the Russians disappeared, living Thailand with a hangover, especially in the construction sector.

Luckily for Thailand, the Chinese were starting to move out of their borders and soon replaced the Russians, at least in volume.

But, such dependency is always dangerous.

If a conflict starts in Korea, Chinese tourists will disappear even faster than the Russians.

 

You are right a country  reliant on exports is  influenced by it partners that rings true for all nations Thailand is not unique., That is trade in the simple form. Nothing every body does not already know and not  relative to rural Thailand domestic consumption  or infrastructure  development to a great degree.

  The Russians and Chinese did and do contribute but there again it is localised to tourist areas. The Russian spending was not nation felt. so it in reality had little effect on how Thais in rural areas live. 

  I get the sense from your post you are focusing on tourist related development and commerce. There is a lot more to Thailand than Phuket,Pattaya  and Koh Samui.

 

[Brunolem]

4 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

 

  I get the sense from your post you are focusing on tourist related development and commerce. There is a lot more to Thailand than Phuket,Pattaya  and Koh Samui.

 

Don't I know that...after 18 years spent living in Isaan, with a few stints in Bangkok and Pattaya.

So, let's focus on the microlevel, specifically "my" village.

There, in the middle of nowhere, are roughly 50 houses harboring 200 permanent residents.

There are villages like this one scattered all around, every 2 or 3 km, and I know quite a few of them.

Let's see how things have evolved.

For one, most if not all dirt roads, including those inside the villages, have been replaced.

Inside the villages, the local authorities generally built almost undestructible steel reinforced concrete roads...fine!

Between villages, it's the usual tar roads that don't last more than two rain seasons.

Reaching the amphoe administrative center, 10 km away from my village, requires special skills in slaloming through potholes.

At the population level now, more than 10 years ago, I had the only new car in the village, and there were maybe two beat up pick ups, barely able to make it to the closest city.

No one had a tractor, a rice harvester, or even a mobile phone.

On the other end, there were no government loan schemes and the only debts were private, most generally between family members.

Today, every house has a car, and the associated credit.

Many houses even have two cars! Why bother? And of course two credits.

Of course, everyone, including 12 year old children, has a motorbike, also bought on credit.

It becomes even more ridiculous when it comes to tractors.

Considering the small size of their farming land, generally a few rais, they could easily deal with one, or maybe two tractors, for the whole village (we call that cooperative in Europe).

But no! They each want to have their own tractor, bought on credit obviously!

And there is the ubiquitous mobile phone, connected on the social website "line" 24/7, which they refill daily, buying small 10 or 20 baht packages.

Of course, with all this mandatory spending, there is not much left for food...often nothing!

I know that for a fact because my wife manages the village shop.

What little food she sells are eggs, small packs of rice noodles and small packs of chips and similar "kanom", all at 5 baht per piece.

She would never be able to sell any food at, say, 20 baht a piece.

Yet, she can easily sell 70cc bottles of gasoline at 30 baht!

As I use to tell her, people spend more to feed their motorbike than to feed themselves!

 

Now the big question: how are all these debt (credit) payments made?

Answer: modern slavery!

As soon as they reach the working age, the children are sent to some factory in Bangkok or Chonburi, or on a construction site anywhere in the country, where they will work 7 days a week, ask for overtime, with the aim of sending as much money as possible back to the village to pay for the family's tractor or new car.

And as soon as the payments will be over, they will start the same process for themselves!

 

Now, my friend, you write in a previous post that debt is debt, and that it is a necessary component of the economy, so that there is no reason to mention it.

Well, that is a wrong assumption!

A solid economy is built on savings, while an economy built on debt is nothing more than a Potemkin economy.

An economy slowly built on savings, as it used to be the case for millenia, until 1913, then 1971, was resilient, with few crisis that never lasted long.

An economy built on debt grows much faster, but goes through frequent crisis that each time grow in intensity, because debt is nothing more than a financial cancer...with a tumor growing exponentially, while the financiers, or banksters, pretend that it is nothing, just a little bump in the road.

[DILLIGAD]

Don't I know that...after 18 years spent living in Isaan, with a few stints in Bangkok and Pattaya.
So, let's focus on the microlevel, specifically "my" village.
There, in the middle of nowhere, are roughly 50 houses harboring 200 permanent residents.
There are villages like this one scattered all around, every 2 or 3 km, and I know quite a few of them.
Let's see how things have evolved.
For one, most if not all dirt roads, including those inside the villages, have been replaced.
Inside the villages, the local authorities generally built almost undestructible steel reinforced concrete roads...fine!
Between villages, it's the usual tar roads that don't last more than two rain seasons.
Reaching the amphoe administrative center, 10 km away from my village, requires special skills in slaloming through potholes.
At the population level now, more than 10 years ago, I had the only new car in the village, and there were maybe two beat up pick ups, barely able to make it to the closest city.
No one had a tractor, a rice harvester, or even a mobile phone.
On the other end, there were no government loan schemes and the only debts were private, most generally between family members.
Today, every house has a car, and the associated credit.
Many houses even have two cars! Why bother? And of course two credits.
Of course, everyone, including 12 year old children, has a motorbike, also bought on credit.
It becomes even more ridiculous when it comes to tractors.
Considering the small size of their farming land, generally a few rais, they could easily deal with one, or maybe two tractors, for the whole village (we call that cooperative in Europe).
But no! They each want to have their own tractor, bought on credit obviously!
And there is the ubiquitous mobile phone, connected on the social website "line" 24/7, which they refill daily, buying small 10 or 20 baht packages.
Of course, with all this mandatory spending, there is not much left for food...often nothing!
I know that for a fact because my wife manages the village shop.
What little food she sells are eggs, small packs of rice noodles and small packs of chips and similar "kanom", all at 5 baht per piece.
She would never be able to sell any food at, say, 20 baht a piece.
Yet, she can easily sell 70cc bottles of gasoline at 30 baht!
As I use to tell her, people spend more to feed their motorbike than to feed themselves!
 
Now the big question: how are all these debt (credit) payments made?
Answer: modern slavery!
As soon as they reach the working age, the children are sent to some factory in Bangkok or Chonburi, or on a construction site anywhere in the country, where they will work 7 days a week, ask for overtime, with the aim of sending as much money as possible back to the village to pay for the family's tractor or new car.
And as soon as the payments will be over, they will start the same process for themselves!
 
Now, my friend, you write in a previous post that debt is debt, and that it is a necessary component of the economy, so that there is no reason to mention it.
Well, that is a wrong assumption!
A solid economy is built on savings, while an economy built on debt is nothing more than a Potemkin economy.
An economy slowly built on savings, as it used to be the case for millenia, until 1913, then 1971, was resilient, with few crisis that never lasted long.
An economy built on debt grows much faster, but goes through frequent crisis that each time grow in intensity, because debt is nothing more than a financial cancer...with a tumor growing exponentially, while the financiers, or banksters, pretend that it is nothing, just a little bump in the road.

Good post. What about the effects of drink & drugs nowadays ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lovelomsak]

27 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Don't I know that...after 18 years spent living in Isaan, with a few stints in Bangkok and Pattaya.

So, let's focus on the microlevel, specifically "my" village.

There, in the middle of nowhere, are roughly 50 houses harboring 200 permanent residents.

There are villages like this one scattered all around, every 2 or 3 km, and I know quite a few of them.

Let's see how things have evolved.

For one, most if not all dirt roads, including those inside the villages, have been replaced.

Inside the villages, the local authorities generally built almost undestructible steel reinforced concrete roads...fine!

Between villages, it's the usual tar roads that don't last more than two rain seasons.

Reaching the amphoe administrative center, 10 km away from my village, requires special skills in slaloming through potholes.

At the population level now, more than 10 years ago, I had the only new car in the village, and there were maybe two beat up pick ups, barely able to make it to the closest city.

No one had a tractor, a rice harvester, or even a mobile phone.

On the other end, there were no government loan schemes and the only debts were private, most generally between family members.

Today, every house has a car, and the associated credit.

Many houses even have two cars! Why bother? And of course two credits.

Of course, everyone, including 12 year old children, has a motorbike, also bought on credit.

It becomes even more ridiculous when it comes to tractors.

Considering the small size of their farming land, generally a few rais, they could easily deal with one, or maybe two tractors, for the whole village (we call that cooperative in Europe).

But no! They each want to have their own tractor, bought on credit obviously!

And there is the ubiquitous mobile phone, connected on the social website "line" 24/7, which they refill daily, buying small 10 or 20 baht packages.

Of course, with all this mandatory spending, there is not much left for food...often nothing!

I know that for a fact because my wife manages the village shop.

What little food she sells are eggs, small packs of rice noodles and small packs of chips and similar "kanom", all at 5 baht per piece.

She would never be able to sell any food at, say, 20 baht a piece.

Yet, she can easily sell 70cc bottles of gasoline at 30 baht!

As I use to tell her, people spend more to feed their motorbike than to feed themselves!

 

Now the big question: how are all these debt (credit) payments made?

Answer: modern slavery!

As soon as they reach the working age, the children are sent to some factory in Bangkok or Chonburi, or on a construction site anywhere in the country, where they will work 7 days a week, ask for overtime, with the aim of sending as much money as possible back to the village to pay for the family's tractor or new car.

And as soon as the payments will be over, they will start the same process for themselves!

 

Now, my friend, you write in a previous post that debt is debt, and that it is a necessary component of the economy, so that there is no reason to mention it.

Well, that is a wrong assumption!

A solid economy is built on savings, while an economy built on debt is nothing more than a Potemkin economy.

An economy slowly built on savings, as it used to be the case for millenia, until 1913, then 1971, was resilient, with few crisis that never lasted long.

An economy built on debt grows much faster, but goes through frequent crisis that each time grow in intensity, because debt is nothing more than a financial cancer...with a tumor growing exponentially, while the financiers, or banksters, pretend that it is nothing, just a little bump in the road.

What you described is called middle class lifestyle. 

  Borrow for what you want or need go to work and pay for it. Most people in developed countries that are middle class are in debt for 40 years of their life.Paying off a house and buying a new car every few years so why can Thais not enjoy the same. 

  To say it is ok for  developed countries suburbia but not rural Thailand seems odd.

  I did say debt is debt but if you read the whole things instead of cherry picking I said well managed debt in the long term  prospers rather than fails.If you really want to get into it debt to savings is also dependent on income and ratios of debt to savings,. But again that is not the topic of this thread. But to end this part I agree  improperly handled debt is unsustainable. But who is to judge what is and what is not sustainable. Certainly not  foreigners living in Thailand. Time will tell if it is sustainable or not. If you read other things I have posted I mentioned people so similar to you 25 years ago saying the same about how things were going in Thailand at that time and things like houses were getting to expensive and could not be maintained . They were very wrong so your points sound very much the same to me. 

  All that said the point of this thread was that Thais do have new cars and new houses and new big motorcycles and are eating in modern restaurants and staying in new hotels. You can speak doom is to come but does not mean it will. But you cannot deny boom is here.

  

  

  

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

 

  All that said the point of this thread was that Thais do have new cars and new houses and new big motorcycles and are eating in modern restaurants and staying in new hotels. You can speak doom is to come but does not mean it will. But you cannot deny boom is here.

  

  

  

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to bring one of my favorite quotes...

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

 

  To say it is ok for  developed countries suburbia but not rural Thailand seems odd.

 

But it is certainly not OK for developed countries!

 

[transam]

If you want to borrow cash in farangland you must jump many hurdles, in LOS the lenders "fix" everything to loan cash. That's the reason why many LOS folk are in deep doo doo..

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

 

But who is to judge what is and what is not sustainable. Certainly not  foreigners living in Thailand. Time will tell if it is sustainable or not.

Analyzing an economy is in no way related to the nationality of those who do the job!

It's as if saying that only Americans can analyze their economy, only Japanese can do the same with theirs and so on...nonsense!

International financiers are constantly "judging", as you say, economies, worldwide, and assigning grades upon which investment decisions will be made.

When the baht goes up, or down, it is not because of a local decision, but because of external forces.

That's the way things work in open economies...

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to bring one of my favorite quotes...

I liked this quote.

  That was 1949. 69 years for credit to bring the end he mentions, How many currencies can we find that went the way he said the currencies  would go from credit expansion? You will need to help me with this I do not know any.

  Thailand just started how long before his quote is a concern? Our life time or 2 life times or more?

  

[Brunolem]

16 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I liked this quote.

  That was 1949. 69 years for credit to bring the end he mentions, How many currencies can we find that went the way he said the currencies  would go from credit expansion? You will need to help me with this I do not know any.

  Thailand just started how long before his quote is a concern? Our life time or 2 life times or more?

  

That is because, in his time, a boom like the one we are experiencing today, was not possible since all the shackles hadn't been removed.

There were two major fateful decisions:

- the creation of the US central bank in 1913, in practice the creation of the money printing machine

- the severed link between the dollar and gold, in 1971, thanks to Nixon...something much worse for the fate of humanity than the ridicule Watergate.

 

The advent of central banking was promptly followed by...the Great Depression!

Then came WWII and, in the end, the Bretton Woods accord that gave us those famous three glorious decades.

Under Bretton Woods, the dollar was linked to gold, hence limiting the possibility of the central banks to issue money and credit at will.

But after 1971, the world slowly entered in a cycle of booms and busts, each one more destructive than the previous one, until 2008...for now.

Yet, despite these ominous warnings, the rulers, that is the banksters and their affiliated oligarchs, are not willing to change anything.

As a matter of fact, like a gambler who keeps on losing, they double down (on credit creation) after each loss...which is exactly what they have done after 2008, hence the boom we are living in.

But the thing is that a boom is nothing to be happy about, this is not how the economy is supposed to work, 10 steps forward, then brutally 12 steps backwards, then forward again...

A strong economy should be humming...as they say...not roaring...

So we are now in the final stage (after the 2000 and 2008 near collapses) of this gigantic boom brought about by an even more gigantic debt buildup.

And since we will not abandon this policy, the first option offered by Mises, we will face the collapse of the currency (system).

The Chinese and the Russians, as well as a few others, are well aware of that, piling up gold in order to be ready for the next chapter, while the insouciant Westerners are selling theirs to the East.

Because, when faith in the actual currency system will collapse, a return to real money backed by real value like gold may well be the solution..