17 hours ago, oldhippy said:

A free and fair democracy works through general elections, not through referenda.

 

So, Switzerland in your opinion is not a democracy.

16 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

hmmmh, maybe I'm the only one who listen to him,. Where he is right he is right, no matter what his history might be. Many things changed in the years between 2007 and 2018. And he changed too. Ask yourself if you still tell the bullshit of 12 years ago. I doubt it. Everybody gets more knowledge. And it is doubtless a mistake to leave EU, even old people on this website will deny. Unfortunately the next generation has to fix these mistakes which will cost a fortune (to leave and to get in again)

Ok, people are allowed to change their minds. Do you still support the IRA.

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I guess that maybe you are the only one

Well 17.4 million would disagree and I suspect a lot more now. So where did you get the scientific evidence that it is a mistake for leaving the EU. It wouldn't be from the Guardian and Independent newspaper by any chance.

 

Tony Blair cares about one thing only.... Tony Blair

If you had read his previouse posts, over many different threads, you would know he is a British hating, bigoted Irish Nationalist.

Edited January 5, 20188 yr by nontabury

21 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I guess that maybe you are the only one

Well 17.4 million would disagree and I suspect a lot more now. So where did you get the scientific evidence that it is a mistake for leaving the EU. It wouldn't be from the Guardian and Independent newspaper by any chance.

 

Tony Blair cares about one thing only.... Tony Blair

1. It's not only - if you were right -who cares about himself. It's all about power in politics. And money and influence of course. So I suspect T.May got the same attitudes? Do you agree? So she sticks to power. And - if she would admit having made a mistake (Brexit, as she was an opponent before), she would lose power, reputation, job. You would think she would admit it?

2. There have been many surveys even by foreign countries asking people. Since they know that it will be extremely costly to leave EU, the wind has changed. UK will have to pay a lot without any chance of having a vote if it comes to EU decisions. And this for years. If you look to Norway (always an example for UK politicians), they will pay at least he same as a member. And without a vote. The difference is, that Norway can afford it but not UK.

3. Above all the IRELAND question is not solved. If it would not been satisfying for my country, the whole deal will go to the dogs.

4. As you know only the majority of old people voted for a Brexit. The young ones stayed away from the polls. And those outdated people shall determine the future of the next generation(s)??

5. Having no vote UK will have to follow all EU rules because of trading with EU. In the past UK sent their people to Brussels in order to influence any decision. This time has passed now. Is that good?

6. So the best would be for UK and EU to cancel the procedure of Brexit. To leave is not good for Europe. And UK alone has no influence into politics anymore but a strong continental Europe.

17 hours ago, oldhippy said:

A free and fair democracy works through general elections, not through referenda.

 

The U.K has general elections, every 4/5 years .

10 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Ok, people are allowed to change their minds. Do you still support the IRA.

Read my comment to "Laughing Gravy" please.

Yes, I changed my mind indeed. I'm sure there are different peaceful ways for a reunification!

 

15 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

1. It's not only - if you were right -who cares about himself. It's all about power in politics. And money and influence of course. So I suspect T.May got the same attitudes? Do you agree? So she sticks to power. And - if she would admit having made a mistake (Brexit, as she was an opponent before), she would lose power, reputation, job. You would think she would admit it?

2. There have been many surveys even by foreign countries asking people. Since they know that it will be extremely costly to leave EU, the wind has changed. UK will have to pay a lot without any chance of having a vote if it comes to EU decisions. And this for years. If you look to Norway (always an example for UK politicians), they will pay at least he same as a member. And without a vote. The difference is, that Norway can afford it but not UK.

3. Above all the IRELAND question is not solved. If it would not been satisfying for my country, the whole deal will go to the dogs.

4. As you know only the majority of old people voted for a Brexit. The young ones stayed away from the polls. And those outdated people shall determine the future of the next generation(s)??

5. Having no vote UK will have to follow all EU rules because of trading with EU. In the past UK sent their people to Brussels in order to influence any decision. This time has passed now. Is that good?

6. So the best would be for UK and EU to cancel the procedure of Brexit. To leave is not good for Europe. And UK alone has no influence into politics anymore but a strong continental Europe.

Just because Ireland voted to leave then change its mind doesn't mean the UK should. The people of the UK are not as easily swayed as the Irish. If only they (Irish) had stood fast against the EU bullies. Sadly they let themselves down.

 

As for Blair he is a puppet of the EU elite sprouting his garbage when given the opportunity. I am actually thinking he is doing the Brexit campaign some good as Blair's credibility in all political corners is zero. So come on Tony carry on you arrogant clown.

 

As for cancelling brexit. You sound like Tony Blair. He would love that and Juncker and the like. Luckily the British people can see through the charade and whoever tries to thwart Brexit, will see a backlash from the people.

 

I find it quite hilarious how all these posters know better than the majority of the people.  You are obviously a politician!

7 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Just because Ireland voted to leave then change its mind doesn't mean the UK should. The people of the UK are not as easily swayed as the Irish. If only they (Irish) had stood fast against the EU bullies. Sadly they let themselves down.

 

As for Blair he is a puppet of the EU elite sprouting his garbage when given the opportunity. I am actually thinking he is doing the Brexit campaign some good as Blair's credibility in all political corners is zero. So come on Tony carry on you arrogant clown.

 

As for cancelling brexit. You sound like Tony Blair. He would love that and Juncker and the like. Luckily the British people can see through the charade and whoever tries to thwart Brexit, will see a backlash from the people.

 

I find it quite hilarious how all these posters know better than the majority of the people.  You are obviously a politician!

The majority of Brits would vote now for STAY, because politicians lied a lot praising the advantages of Brexit.

Anyway I'm disapointed that you did not know any answer to my points and are not able to discuss but blaming Blair only. How poor.

Please don't reply. I would not react.

 

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

The majority of Brits would vote now for STAY, because politicians lied a lot praising the advantages of Brexit.

Anyway I'm disapointed that you did not know any answer to my points and are not able to discuss but blaming Blair only. How poor.

Please don't reply. I would not react.

 

I have better things to do than reply like watching paint dry. So we agree we wont reply. I am happy with that.

He's still smarting the fact that he wasn't even considered for the European President job.

2 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

The majority of Brits would vote now for STAY

Actually many polls now indicate that only around 20% of the UK population would like a 2nd referendum, and that around 70% now want us to get on with Brexit. Blair and his cronies are a very small minority now.

 

2 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

because politicians lied a lot praising the advantages of Brexit.

And politicians on the remain side lied a lot too. Don't forget that Leave won despite a huge government campaign to remain, including leaflet drops (paid for by taxpayers) and ridiculous scare tactics. Also don't forget that a huge number of people voted remain just because they thought things are ok for them at the moment, without any clue about how the EU is evolving, and many just voted remain to avoid change.

 

I saw countless rants from young people thinking that Brexit was purely about stopping them from going to Spain on holiday, or about sending their friend Pedro back to Spain, when it was nothing of the sort. Most of the young voters were misled.

Despite all this, Leave still won. If it had been a fair fight the Leave vote percentage would have been much greater. As it would be now if there was a 2nd referendum, now the EU pen pushers have shown their true colours.

11 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Does he hold any formal position within the labour party?

 

 

11 hours ago, carmine said:

No, not that i am aware of.

You mean other than having been the most electorally successful Labour Leader ever in General Elections?

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

 

You mean other than having been the most electorally successful Labour Leader ever in General Elections?

.....having been.....

But what is he now in the Labour party? Does he have any influence? Is he member of some committee?

Do Labour party leaders want to be seen in his company?

I have no idea - that's why I ask.

14 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

.....having been.....

But what is he now in the Labour party? Does he have any influence? Is he member of some committee?

Do Labour party leaders want to be seen in his company?

I have no idea - that's why I ask.

It is usually the case with former UK Prime Ministers to resign all positions if they subsequently relinquish being Leader of the Party. The one modern PM who was defeated at a General election but then stayed on as Party Leader and then returned to power was Harold Wilson. Churchill before Wilson if we include post-War examples. If you want to know who Corbyn wants to be seen with I suggest you write him a letter at the House of Commons.

Edited January 5, 20188 yr by SheungWan

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

It is usually the case with former UK Prime Ministers to resign all positions if they subsequently relinquish being Leader of the Party. The one modern PM who was defeated at a General election but then stayed on as Party Leader and then returned to power was Harold Wilson. Churchill before Wilson if we include post-War examples. If you want to know who Corbyn wants to be seen with I suggest you write him a letter at the House of Commons.

A lot of words, but you do not give the answer to my question: Does Blair hold a position in the Labour party today?

I assume the Labour party has advisers, a board, a think tank, whatever.... Is Blair in one of these or not?

 

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

A lot of words, but you do not give the answer to my question: Does Blair hold a position in the Labour party today?

I assume the Labour party has advisers, a board, a think tank, whatever.... Is Blair in one of these or not?

 

What is it about the following words you have difficulty understanding: 'It is usually the case with former UK Prime Ministers to resign all positions if they subsequently relinquish being Leader of the Party.'

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

What is it about the following words you have difficulty understanding: 'It is usually the case with former UK Prime Ministers to resign all positions if they subsequently relinquish being Leader of the Party.'

"Usually" is not realy clear to me.

 

Furthermore, I would find it strange that "usually" a political party would simply throw away the knowledge and experience of an ex PM. That would make the UK 100% unique in the world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, oldhippy said:

"Usually" is not realy clear to me.

 

Furthermore, I would find it strange that "usually" a political party would simply throw away the knowledge and experience of an ex PM. That would make the UK 100% unique in the world.

Apart from Tony Blair, there are currently 3 former UK Prime Ministers still alive: John Major, Gordon Brown and David Cameron. I think you will find that none of them hold any position in the political parties they formerly led.

Off topic post removed.

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Apart from Tony Blair, there are currently 3 former UK Prime Ministers still alive: John Major, Gordon Brown and David Cameron. I think you will find that none of them hold any position in the political parties they formerly led.

Thank you for that clear and unambiguous answer.

21 hours ago, SheungWan said:

So what does Michael Wolff say in his book? "The extract continues: “It was unclear whether the information was rumour, informed conjecture, speculation or solid stuff." Fortunately we have your good self who is able to make a more conclusive evaluation than the author and for that we thank you.

You don't have to thank me for reminding everyone that Tony is a lying piece of s**t, and by giving Tony the benefit of any doubt you are making a fool out of yourself.

18 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

The majority of Brits would vote now for STAY, because politicians lied a lot praising the advantages of Brexit.

Anyway I'm disapointed that you did not know any answer to my points and are not able to discuss but blaming Blair only. How poor.

Please don't reply. I would not react.

 

At the end of the day no one knows yet whether leaving europe will turn out to be a good thing or a bad thing.  Time will tell and in the meantime, the British people have spoken and their wished must be acknowledged as part of a democratic referendum.

 

Only the extreme arrogance of Mr Blair allows him to carry on in this matter although rather ironically, because he is so hated and despised in the country all his waffling will do is improve the support for Brexit.  A man so loathed, a liar and a war criminal will do nothing to further the cause of reneging on the democratic wishes of the people and frankly rather than giving him media airspace they should be packing him off the The Hague to stand trial.

1 hour ago, carmine said:

At the end of the day no one knows yet whether leaving europe will turn out to be a good thing or a bad thing.  Time will tell and in the meantime, the British people have spoken and their wished must be acknowledged as part of a democratic referendum.

 

Only the extreme arrogance of Mr Blair allows him to carry on in this matter although rather ironically, because he is so hated and despised in the country all his waffling will do is improve the support for Brexit.  A man so loathed, a liar and a war criminal will do nothing to further the cause of reneging on the democratic wishes of the people and frankly rather than giving him media airspace they should be packing him off the The Hague to stand trial.

UK support for staying in the EU has increased. Tony Blair going with the trend not against it. See Daily Telegraph published poll December 17 and Reuters published poll December 3.

1 hour ago, johna said:

You don't have to thank me for reminding everyone that Tony is a lying piece of s**t, and by giving Tony the benefit of any doubt you are making a fool out of yourself.

Might have been better not referencing Michael Wolff which doesn't quite support but never mind, carry on. Maybe next time try to use a reference which does support the conclusion.

Edited January 6, 20188 yr by SheungWan

13 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

UK support for staying in the EU has increased. Tony Blair going with the trend not against it. See Daily Telegraph published poll December 17 and Reuters published poll December 3.

Foreigners don't seem to get it.  Its done, the vote has taken place.  We are a functioning democracy that has voted and decided to leave.  There will be "no second referendum" despite whatever the lying war criminal says.  And it matters neither what any newspaper says.  Our law dictates one referendum and thats final.  

1 minute ago, carmine said:

Foreigners don't seem to get it.  Its done, the vote has taken place.  We are a functioning democracy that has voted and decided to leave.  There will be "no second referendum" despite whatever the lying war criminal says.  And it matters neither what any newspaper says.  Our law dictates one referendum and thats final.  

UK law dictates nothing of the sort. Where did you make that one up from?

Edited January 6, 20188 yr by SheungWan

1 minute ago, SheungWan said:

UK law dictates nothing of the sort. Where did you make that one up from?

Its a done deal, the people have voted.  Its only Blair and a few others that keep barking on about it.  Even pro europeans acknowledge the decision whether they like it or not.  

 

There cannot be another referendum and there will not.  How many times must the British government keep reiterating this?

7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

UK law dictates nothing of the sort. Where did you make that one up from?

 

3 minutes ago, carmine said:

Its a done deal, the people have voted.  Its only Blair and a few others that keep barking on about it.  Even pro europeans acknowledge the decision whether they like it or not.  

 

There cannot be another referendum and there will not.  How many times must the British government keep reiterating this?

I guess you would like your comment about UK law dictating one referendum only, to go away.

Edited January 6, 20188 yr by SheungWan

41 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

I guess you would like your comment about UK law dictating one referendum only, to go away.

Yes i thought it was but it wasn't.  Happy now?  Aside of this, you fail to offer any valid reason for another referendum.

 

 Everyone had their chance and that was the result, like it or not.

10 hours ago, oldhippy said:

A lot of words, but you do not give the answer to my question: Does Blair hold a position in the Labour party today?

I assume the Labour party has advisers, a board, a think tank, whatever.... Is Blair in one of these or not?

 

 

The best I can do for you is to pint you in the general direction of the answer that you seek. Having read these and other comments I 'think" that Tony Blair is still a member of the Labour Party but he doesn't seem to hold any position other than membership.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?ei=wFFQWpjCIonVvgTvtpeADw&q=is+tony+blair+still+a+member+of+the+labour+party&oq=is+tony+blair+still+a+member+of+the+labour+party&gs_l=psy-ab.12...10352.41212.0.45578.40.34.1.5.5.0.210.3990.8j25j1.34.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.18.1760...0j35i39k1j0i7i30k1j0i13k1j0i67k1j0i30k1j0i22i30k1j33i21k1j33i22i29i30k1.0.iKSYW3So1Vs

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/25/has-tony-blair-broken-labour-party-rules

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/petition-to-expel-tony-blair-from-labour-party-takes-off-following-chilcot-report-a7125911.html

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/tony-blair/news/85507/john-prescott-questions-why-tony-blair

 

http://www.cityam.com/277900/2017-ends-state-british-labour-party-

 

I hope that you can make some sense of it as I haven't got a clue.