Tony Blair warns British voters: time is running out to stop Brexit folly

[SheungWan]

11 hours ago, Basil B said:

Why has Tony decided to speak out about Brexit now...

 

Could this be a smoke screen to detract attention from what he did not         ...or may have said to Jared Kushner?e

Perfectly legitimate for an ex-Party leader to push a position on Brexit now that the UK is entering a critical period of negotiations. In this case it is about the Labour Party response and positioning to the Brexit exit process. Since Blair was a key architect of the Good Friday agreement on N. Ireland his comment that the Northern Ireland question re Brexit cannot be fixed one to engage with.

[sawadee1947]

13 hours ago, i claudius said:

So the older people who have been there done it seen it were not young enough to know everything Lucky that.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Please translate your answer in understandable English?

[sawadee1947]

13 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You are confusing your small-minded view with the correct phrase................"The wiser, older sages voted to protect the futures of the most important things to them.... their children and grandchildren"

NO, that's NOT the point.

The older people are afraid of the future, They want to go back to "Good Old England" or "Empire" or "Good Old Times". They are afraid of changes, afraid of a changing society, of migrants (which mainly that "Empire" caused to come by horrible exploiting of colonies, by increasing poverty there. They are blind to see that a single little country will struggle to find a place between the blocks of EU, America, and China(Asia). In a global world there is no place for stubbornness. This fear of changes is the reason even for upcoming nationalism in some states of EU and other parts in the world. The good thing is, that these preserving old people will be gone in a decade or a  bit more.

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

NO, that's NOT the point.

The older people are afraid of the future, They want to go back to "Good Old England" or "Empire" or "Good Old Times". They are afraid of changes, afraid of a changing society, of migrants (which mainly that "Empire" caused to come by horrible exploiting of colonies, by increasing poverty there. They are blind to see that a single little country will struggle to find a place between the blocks of EU, America, and China(Asia). In a global world there is no place for stubbornness. This fear of changes is the reason even for upcoming nationalism in some states of EU and other parts in the world. The good thing is, that these preserving old people will be gone in a decade or a  bit more.

 

Absolutely WRONG!

 

How dare you speak for me and how I voted.

 

The last thing I want is any "good old days/colonialism/Rule Britannia" and any other <deleted> like that.

 

THE POINT IS.. that I don't want (for me and my offspring) is a Britain controlled by un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels are  continue to strengthen their power base, whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves.

 

You have sucked up all the Leave hyperbole.

[sanemax]

13 hours ago, oldhippy said:

Let's give max a hint:

Pinochet.

Ah, hints don't cost money, here's another one:

Franco.

 

Oh OK , Pinochet was a dictator who held a referendum to ask whether the people wanted him to remain as the countries leader, or whether they wanted free elections .

   Chile voted for free elections in the referendum  and Pinochet respected that vote and then  held free elections and stood down .

   Now, what is wrong with that ?

Doesnt that show that referendums are a good thing ?

Dont tell me that you just got two words "referendum" and  "dictator" and put them both together , in an attempt to try to make referendums seem bad ?

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

Absolutely WRONG!

 

How dare you speak for me and how I voted.

 

The last thing I want is any "good old days/colonialism/Rule Britannia" and any other <deleted> like that.

 

THE POINT IS.. that I don't want (for me and my offspring) is a Britain controlled by un-elected bureaucrats in Brussels are  continue to strengthen their power base, whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves.

 

You have sucked up all the Leave hyperbole.

You are the best example for what I was writing of.

 

You mentioned: "un-elected bureaucrats"

Do you know who are those people? They are sent by your beloved Government to decide about new laws, regulations and developments (infrastructure, subsidies aso). All this will influence UK.

If you don't want be part of any development for a wider view of the world of globalization .....then you are definitely wanting to go back to those "Good Old Times". You are looking into the past but not into future, Future of UK, which is connected to future of EU.Trading with EU menas to follow EU rules. And how to create rules without having a vote??

Now let me come to: "whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves."

Do you think honestly a few brains in UK can do more than those of a big community in terms of developments? EU is a huge "Think Tank" what is necessary to conquer the upcoming power of Asia, (America), India.

Do you think a small country like UK can survive with big blocks as America, Asia-India and EU?

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

You are the best example for what I was writing of.

 

You mentioned: "un-elected bureaucrats"

Do you know who are those people? They are sent by your beloved Government to decide about new laws, regulations and developments (infrastructure, subsidies aso). All this will influence UK.

If you don't want be part of any development for a wider view of the world of globalization .....then you are definitely wanting to go back to those "Good Old Times". You are looking into the past but not into future, Future of UK, which is connected to future of EU.Trading with EU menas to follow EU rules. And how to create rules without having a vote??

Now let me come to: "whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves."

Do you think honestly a few brains in UK can do more than those of a big community in terms of developments? EU is a huge "Think Tank" what is necessary to conquer the upcoming power of Asia, (America), India.

Do you think a small country like UK can survive with big blocks as America, Asia-India and EU?

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

Conquer? Sounds like you actually want a conflict of superpowers.  Numpty on steroids.

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

You are the best example for what I was writing of.

 

You mentioned: "un-elected bureaucrats"

Do you know who are those people? They are sent by your beloved Government to decide about new laws, regulations and developments (infrastructure, subsidies aso). All this will influence UK.

If you don't want be part of any development for a wider view of the world of globalization .....then you are definitely wanting to go back to those "Good Old Times". You are looking into the past but not into future, Future of UK, which is connected to future of EU.Trading with EU menas to follow EU rules. And how to create rules without having a vote??

Now let me come to: "whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves."

Do you think honestly a few brains in UK can do more than those of a big community in terms of developments? EU is a huge "Think Tank" what is necessary to conquer the upcoming power of Asia, (America), India.

Do you think a small country like UK can survive with big blocks as America, Asia-India and EU?

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

God you post rubbish ,i am public school educated ,come from a well off family .two of whom have been given awards from the Old King and our queen , one of my syblings owns and runs a large company ,we all voted for Brexit , but then perhaps because someone like me posts on here and is married to a Thai woman and live on the outskirts of Pattaya i am really lower class and uneducated .

[sanemax]

25 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

 

Do you think honestly a few brains in UK can do more than those of a big community in terms of developments? EU is a huge "Think Tank" what is necessary to conquer the upcoming power of Asia, (America), India.

Do you think a small country like UK can survive with big blocks as America, Asia-India and EU?

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

The UK can form its own trade agreements with these Countries .

The UK can form trade agreements with the E.U , China, India , Australia etc , without being governed by E.U. rules and regulations .

[sawadee1947]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The UK can form its own trade agreements with these Countries .

The UK can form trade agreements with the E.U , China, India , Australia etc , without being governed by E.U. rules and regulations .

That is a no sense answer. Of course UK can have contracts.

But do you think honestly you can have the same or better conditions than the big blocks. Only a fool would believe this

[sawadee1947]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Conquer? Sounds like you actually want a conflict of superpowers.  Numpty on steroids.

if not conquer how about compete?

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

if not conquer how about compete?

Too late mate.

[sawadee1947]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Too late mate.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

That is a no sense answer. Of course UK can have contracts.

But do you think honestly you can have the same or better conditions than the big blocks. Only a fool would believe this

The UK has the Worlds 5 th biggest economy .

Do you have any evidence that not being part of the E.U will weaken the U.Ks position in trade talks ? 

   I have no idea whether being part of the E.U will be a help or a hindrance in regards to trade relationships with other Countries .

   I suggest that you do not either and its what you just probably think .

So, you should not call other peoples "fools" , if you have no idea what you are talking about

   

[sanemax]

55 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

 

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

It could well be that the lowly uneducated people had their traditional jobs taken by Europeans , as of the 1 million jobs created in the UK , 95 % of those were taken by non UK citizens .

  And those educated rich people preferred to hire Europeans to carry out work for them, because they worked cheaper ?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

You are the best example for what I was writing of.

 

You mentioned: "un-elected bureaucrats"

Do you know who are those people? They are sent by your beloved Government to decide about new laws, regulations and developments (infrastructure, subsidies aso). All this will influence UK.

If you don't want be part of any development for a wider view of the world of globalization .....then you are definitely wanting to go back to those "Good Old Times". You are looking into the past but not into future, Future of UK, which is connected to future of EU.Trading with EU menas to follow EU rules. And how to create rules without having a vote??

Now let me come to: "whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves."

Do you think honestly a few brains in UK can do more than those of a big community in terms of developments? EU is a huge "Think Tank" what is necessary to conquer the upcoming power of Asia, (America), India.

Do you think a small country like UK can survive with big blocks as America, Asia-India and EU?

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

 

Now for your last point.

 

64% of the higher educated people did NOT vote for "REMAIN or STAY.

48% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for REMAIN or STAY.

 

That is exactly what you have quoted but from the opposite point of view.

 

In your own words, less higher educated voted to remain than stay and yet you belive that they are smarter than the less educated people, and less of them voted to stay than leave.

 

47 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

you showed us right now

 

And you showed your own arrogance and ignorance earlier by implying that "higher educated" people are smarter.

[sawadee1947]

32 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Now for your last point.

 

64% of the higher educated people did NOT vote for "REMAIN or STAY.

48% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for REMAIN or STAY.

 

That is exactly what you have quoted but from the opposite point of view.

 

In your own words, less higher educated voted to remain than stay and yet you belive that they are smarter than the less educated people, and less of them voted to stay than leave.

 

 

And you showed your own arrogance and ignorance earlier by implying that "higher educated" people are smarter.

NO, it's just to see the bigger picture. Of course by better education!

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

It could well be that the lowly uneducated people had their traditional jobs taken by Europeans , as of the 1 million jobs created in the UK , 95 % of those were taken by non UK citizens .

  And those educated rich people preferred to hire Europeans to carry out work for them, because they worked cheaper ?

Thank you, you just gave me the point:

I will not discuss if the figure of 95% is right, but if Non-UK-People took jobs in UK, then it means that Brits could not fulfill the requirements or were not willing to change. Change their home, habits, location.

To see chances is obviously based on better education

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

God you post rubbish ,i am public school educated ,come from a well off family .two of whom have been given awards from the Old King and our queen , one of my syblings owns and runs a large company ,we all voted for Brexit , but then perhaps because someone like me posts on here and is married to a Thai woman and live on the outskirts of Pattaya i am really lower class and uneducated .

Uneducated might include those who didn't exactly complete their education with much to show for it on completion.

[sawadee1947]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

The UK has the Worlds 5 th biggest economy .

Do you have any evidence that not being part of the E.U will weaken the U.Ks position in trade talks ? 

   I have no idea whether being part of the E.U will be a help or a hindrance in regards to trade relationships with other Countries .

   I suggest that you do not either and its what you just probably think .

So, you should not call other peoples "fools" , if you have no idea what you are talking about

   

Thank you, here another point:

UK has the 5th biggest economy based on what? BIP? PPP? Check again

Of course we will not know what the future will be . We are not clairvoyants. But it is common sense, that 27 countries will have a different power than a little one only. As a little one you have to follow the majority.

Look to Norway. They tried to be free in decisions and did not join EU. And the price? see my further comments. And....they did not get the same conditions as a full member of EU. You will not get on with cherry picking.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

Oh OK , Pinochet was a dictator who held a referendum to ask whether the people wanted him to remain as the countries leader, or whether they wanted free elections .

   Chile voted for free elections in the referendum  and Pinochet respected that vote and then  held free elections and stood down .

   Now, what is wrong with that ?

Doesnt that show that referendums are a good thing ?

Dont tell me that you just got two words "referendum" and  "dictator" and put them both together , in an attempt to try to make referendums seem bad ?

Maybe some Brexiteers would also like to follow Pinochet's example and first arrest the opposition as Enemies of the People and destroy any independent parliamentary existence?

[nauseus]

46 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Thank you, here another point:

UK has the 5th biggest economy based on what? BIP? PPP? Check again

Of course we will not know what the future will be . We are not clairvoyants. But it is common sense, that 27 countries will have a different power than a little one only. As a little one you have to follow the majority.

Look to Norway. They tried to be free in decisions and did not join EU. And the price? see my further comments. And....they did not get the same conditions as a full member of EU. You will not get on with cherry picking.

At the moment they are happy to have their fish picking rights but are increasingly unhappy with the rest of the deal.

[nauseus]

43 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Maybe some Brexiteers would also like to follow Pinochet's example and first arrest the opposition as Enemies of the People and destroy any independent parliamentary existence?

Maybe? Maybe not. Maybe that line is EU policy as far as opposition to it by its own members goes.  

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

You are the best example for what I was writing of.

 

You mentioned: "un-elected bureaucrats"

Do you know who are those people? They are sent by your beloved Government to decide about new laws, regulations and developments (infrastructure, subsidies aso). All this will influence UK.

If you don't want be part of any development for a wider view of the world of globalization .....then you are definitely wanting to go back to those "Good Old Times". You are looking into the past but not into future, Future of UK, which is connected to future of EU.Trading with EU menas to follow EU rules. And how to create rules without having a vote??

Now let me come to: "whilst diminishing the ability of member states to govern themselves."

Do you think honestly a few brains in UK can do more than those of a big community in terms of developments? EU is a huge "Think Tank" what is necessary to conquer the upcoming power of Asia, (America), India.

Do you think a small country like UK can survive with big blocks as America, Asia-India and EU?

Now let me come to the last point you don't know:

36% of the higher educated people voted for "REMAIN or STAY.

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

These are facts published by your government

 

OK, so from this then, 

 

52% of the lower classes (uneducated) voted for "LEAVE"

 

and

 

64% of the higher classes? educated  people also voted for "LEAVE"

 

Thankyou...

 

 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Thank you, you just gave me the point:

I will not discuss if the figure of 95% is right, but if Non-UK-People took jobs in UK, then it means that Brits could not fulfill the requirements or were not willing to change. Change their home, habits, location.

To see chances is obviously based on better education

Yes, some Brits were not willing to live five people to a bedsit and live on a fish and a loaf of bread a day . 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Maybe some Brexiteers would also like to follow Pinochet's example and first arrest the opposition as Enemies of the People and destroy any independent parliamentary existence?

I havent heard any suggestions from the Brexiteers that they would like this to happen .

I am sure that you just made that up

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Thank you, here another point:

UK has the 5th biggest economy based on what? BIP? PPP? Check again

Of course we will not know what the future will be . We are not clairvoyants. But it is common sense, that 27 countries will have a different power than a little one only. As a little one you have to follow the majority.

Look to Norway. They tried to be free in decisions and did not join EU. And the price? see my further comments. And....they did not get the same conditions as a full member of EU. You will not get on with cherry picking.

Only one other European Country had a bigger economy than the UK , the UK France and Germany make up 50 % of the E.U. economy . The individual smaller E.U. Countries will want trade agreements with the UK , just as much as we would want trade agreements with them .

   Try looking at the World from a World power position, rather than just a little green island on the way to the the americas

[F4UCorsair]

On 1/4/2018 at 3:57 PM, Orton Rd said:

Too late Blair, the vote was 18 months ago. 

 

Another left politician who didn't like the result (a defeat) so wants to reverse it.   The left doesn't change, wherever they are in the world.  When they lose, they abuse, threaten and riot.

 

There is a democratic system in place, and the vote was for a split with the EU.   That's it, game over.

[F4UCorsair]

On 1/4/2018 at 4:44 PM, sanemax said:

I wonder whether the people who wanted to stay in Europe, now want a second referendum ?

Is it the people who lost the referendum who want to vote again ? 

 

They're the ones, those who can't accept the outcome of the democratic process when the result goes against their selfish stupidity.

[oldhippy]

35 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

Another left politician who didn't like the result (a defeat) so wants to reverse it.   The left doesn't change, wherever they are in the world.  When they lose, they abuse, threaten and riot.

 

There is a democratic system in place, and the vote was for a split with the EU.   That's it, game over.

Joke of the year!

 

You call Blair a left wing politician.

Blair has been called many things, and quite rightly so,  but LEFT WINGER?

Get real please.