sawadee1947 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 53 minutes ago, sanemax said: will want trade agreements with the UK hahahahha, but after Brexit.......and they will dictate conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawadee1947 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 54 minutes ago, sanemax said: Only one other European Country had a bigger economy than the UK , the UK France and Germany make up 50 % of the E.U. economy . The individual smaller E.U. Countries will want trade agreements with the UK , just as much as we would want trade agreements with them . Try looking at the World from a World power position, rather than just a little green island on the way to the the americas "had a bigger economy".......but not 2017! The figures are from 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: hahahahha, but after Brexit.......and they will dictate conditions. And after I explained the reasons why they will not dictate the conditions you reply , you just reply, saying the same thing again !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 hours ago, SheungWan said: Perfectly legitimate for an ex-Party leader to push a position on Brexit now that the UK is entering a critical period of negotiations. In this case it is about the Labour Party response and positioning to the Brexit exit process. Since Blair was a key architect of the Good Friday agreement on N. Ireland his comment that the Northern Ireland question re Brexit cannot be fixed one to engage with. I was not questioning the legitimacy, just the timing, suggesting he does not want to answer awkward questions on the other matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Basil B said: I was not questioning the legitimacy, just the timing, suggesting he does not want to answer awkward questions on the other matter... The other other matter about mass murder preceeded the other matter about some book. Books are just paper. People are people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron19 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 A post with a distorted quote has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, oldhippy said: The other other matter about mass murder preceeded the other matter about some book. Books are just paper. People are people. As a supposedly socialist I am just amazed how that guy will jump into bed with the American Republicans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldhippy Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 4 minutes ago, Basil B said: As a supposedly socialist I am just amazed how that guy will jump into bed with the American Republicans... .....supposedly..... I can proudly say that even in his glory days (before the mass murder) I never thought of him as a socialist or even as a social democrat. British socialists... euhhhh.... I can only think of William Godwin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 7:52 PM, Bluespunk said: Me? I’ve always said brexit was stupid, but I accepted the outcome of the vote. I’ve never called for another vote. I just support the right for one to occur. And the right for people to call for one, especially as the result was so close. As far as I am aware the referendum was conducted in a legal and valid way No valid reason there to hold another vote in my view There was a CLEAR WINNER, so obviously also a CLEAR LOSER No valid reason there to hold another vote in my view The referendum was held on a winner takes all basis, most votes wins quite simple, it was not a secret There would have to be a strong valid legal reason to hold another referendum It being close does not hack it What you are supporting and advocating is an attempt to disenfranchise the MAJORITY who voted for Brexit and carried the day in favour of the MINORITY who voted remain and Lost Thats not democracy in any shape or form I have absolutely no idea what will happen in the future as regards public opinion etc etc, and the possibilities of another referendum Democracy demands that this one stands thats why we are in the middle of Brexit negotiations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, oldlakey said: As far as I am aware the referendum was conducted in a legal and valid way No valid reason there to hold another vote in my view There was a CLEAR WINNER, so obviously also a CLEAR LOSER No valid reason there to hold another vote in my view The referendum was held on a winner takes all basis, most votes wins quite simple, it was not a secret There would have to be a strong valid legal reason to hold another referendum It being close does not hack it What you are supporting and advocating is an attempt to disenfranchise the MAJORITY who voted for Brexit and carried the day in favour of the MINORITY who voted remain and Lost Thats not democracy in any shape or form I have absolutely no idea what will happen in the future as regards public opinion etc etc, and the possibilities of another referendum Democracy demands that this one stands thats why we are in the middle of Brexit negotiations Democracy doesn't demand anything whatsoever other than legal requirements and there is no legal requirement not to run another referendum. The decision whether to run another referendum is also not a legal matter, it is a political decision and that is the responsibility of Parliament. Confusing the legality of the electoral process of running a referendum with that of the decision whether to run another one is what is referred to as a fake pass. A contribution above of confusion and mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, oldlakey said: As far as I am aware the referendum was conducted in a legal and valid way No valid reason there to hold another vote in my view There was a CLEAR WINNER, so obviously also a CLEAR LOSER No valid reason there to hold another vote in my view The referendum was held on a winner takes all basis, most votes wins quite simple, it was not a secret There would have to be a strong valid legal reason to hold another referendum It being close does not hack it What you are supporting and advocating is an attempt to disenfranchise the MAJORITY who voted for Brexit and carried the day in favour of the MINORITY who voted remain and Lost Thats not democracy in any shape or form I have absolutely no idea what will happen in the future as regards public opinion etc etc, and the possibilities of another referendum Democracy demands that this one stands thats why we are in the middle of Brexit negotiations I really do wonder at what motivates such fear and loathing amongst brexiteers whenever someone exercises their democratic rights and expresses their desire for another vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, SheungWan said: Democracy doesn't demand anything whatsoever other than legal requirements and there is no legal requirement not to run another referendum. The decision whether to run another referendum is also not a legal matter, it is a political decision and that is the responsibility of Parliament. Confusing the legality of the electoral process of running a referendum with that of the decision whether to run another one is what is referred to as a fake pass. A contribution above of confusion and mess. The people have spoken why is that so difficult for you to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: I really do wonder at what motivates such fear and loathing amongst brexiteers whenever someone exercises their democratic rights and expresses their desire for another vote. What about the democratic rights of the MAJORITY There is no valid reason for another vote at this present time in my view I wait for you to inform me why there should be another referendum at this point in time Or is that a secret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, oldlakey said: What about the democratic rights of the MAJORITY There is no valid reason for another vote at this present time in my view I wait for you to inform me why there should be another referendum at this point in time Or is that a secret If people want to call for a vote, that is their right to do so. If you want to know why they want one, ask someone who’s called for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldlakey said: The people have spoken why is that so difficult for you to understand Ha ha ha...ah the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Bluespunk said: If people want to call for a vote, that is their right to do so. If you want to know why they want one, ask someone who’s called for one. You are being evasive, my dear Bluespunk I will rephrase the question thus Why do you Bluespunk, support the call for another referendum at this point in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, SheungWan said: Democracy doesn't demand anything whatsoever other than legal requirements and there is no legal requirement not to run another referendum. The decision whether to run another referendum is also not a legal matter, it is a political decision and that is the responsibility of Parliament. Confusing the legality of the electoral process of running a referendum with that of the decision whether to run another one is what is referred to as a fake pass. A contribution above of confusion and mess. 6 minutes ago, oldlakey said: The people have spoken why is that so difficult for you to understand Always amusing when some Brexiteers try pomposity in response to any argument of detail. 'The people have spoken', is, of course, completely meaningless, other than with reference to the actual wording of a referendum or laws passed by Parliament and protected by the Law. The Brexiteers who tend towards said inanities are invariably those who have preferred Royal Prerogative in place of Parliamentary decision-making and in addition denunciation of the Supreme Court as Enemies of the People. Democracy? These Brexit guys don't care and haven't got a clue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, oldlakey said: You are being evasive, my dear Bluespunk I will rephrase the question thus Why do you Bluespunk, support the call for another referendum at this point in time I have never called for another referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, SheungWan said: Always amusing when some Brexiteers try pomposity in response to any argument of detail. 'The people have spoken', is, of course, completely meaningless, other than with reference to the actual wording of a referendum or laws passed by Parliament and protected by the Law. The Brexiteers who tend towards said inanities are invariably those who have preferred Royal Prerogative in place of Parliamentary decision-making and in addition denunciation of the Supreme Court as Enemies of the People. Democracy? These Brexit guys don't care and haven't got a clue either. I think you will find that the reason we are so far down the negotiating road is exactly because the people have spoken, meaningless you say 5555555 I will ignore the rest of the pompous nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, oldlakey said: What about the democratic rights of the MAJORITY There is no valid reason for another vote at this present time in my view I wait for you to inform me why there should be another referendum at this point in time Or is that a secret The decision as to whether there is or is not a justification to run another referendum is a political one. 'Valid' implies a legal requirement and in that regard there is absolutely none. Should or shouldn't is a political decision. Can or cannot is a legal one. Understanding the difference seems to be a bar that certain Brexiteers have trouble getting over, although I do note that those of low educational attainment do appear to have some extra difficulty doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bluespunk said: I have never called for another referendum. Yes I am well aware of what you are hiding behind But you have STATED that you support the call for another referendum So I will now repeat my question to you Why do you Bluespunk, support the call for another referendum at this point in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, SheungWan said: The decision as to whether there is or is not a justification to run another referendum is a political one. 'Valid' implies a legal requirement and in that regard there is absolutely none. Should or shouldn't is a political decision. Can or cannot is a legal one. Understanding the difference seems to be a bar that certain Brexiteers have trouble getting over, although I do note that those of low educational attainment do appear to have some extra difficulty doing so. Did you learn your personal insults at uni? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, vogie said: Did you learn your personal insults at uni? We always knew them as chinless wonders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldlakey said: Yes I am well aware of what you are hiding behind But you have STATED that you support the call for another referendum So I will now repeat my question to you Why do you Bluespunk, support the call for another referendum at this point in time I am not hiding. I have never supported or called for another referendum. It is a deliberate falsehood to say I have. I suppport the right of others to express their desires. Unlike you I believe that under a democratic system, people have the right to express their views. If they want another referendum why can they not call for one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Just now, Bluespunk said: I am not hiding. I have never supported or called for another referendum. I suppport the right of others to express their desires. Unlike you I believe that under a democratic system, people have the right to express their views. I cant recall who compared you to a politician earlier in this thread, but Gawd help us he was not WRONG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldlakey said: I cant recall who compared you to a politician earlier in this thread, but Gawd help us he was not WRONG I have answered your questions, countered your false allegations against me and clearly stated my view that if someone wants to call a referendum, then they should be allowed to. You don't like my answers so you resort to insults. Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Bluespunk said: I have answered your questions, countered your false allegations against me and clearly stated my view that if someone wants to call a referendum, then they should be allowed to. You don't like my answers so you resort to insults. Sigh... Bluespunk, you have stated that you support the right for a new referendum I would simply like to know why I do not believe for one minute its got anything to do with democracy as you claim The remains were defeated in the last vote, thats why negotiations are under way Why is that so difficult for you to swallow or even understand I will repeat, The MAJORITY have spoken thats how DEMOCRACY is supposed to work I repeated what somebody else said to you about being a politician because I was, and still am unable to extract an answer to my question If you consider that an insult then report my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanemax Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 29 minutes ago, SheungWan said: The decision as to whether there is or is not a justification to run another referendum is a political one. 'Valid' implies a legal requirement and in that regard there is absolutely none. Should or shouldn't is a political decision. Can or cannot is a legal one. Understanding the difference seems to be a bar that certain Brexiteers have trouble getting over, although I do note that those of low educational attainment do appear to have some extra difficulty doing so. How does this sound : The UK holds a referendum every week, every Monday , asking the same question about whether the UK should remain in Europe . These weekly referendums shall continue until the voters vote to stay in Europe . As soon as the "stay" vote is cast , then that stay result will be binding and the weekly referendums shall cease to happen and Brexit will be postponed and no more referendums asking the question shall ever take place again . Would you agree to that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, sanemax said: How does this sound : The UK holds a referendum every week, every Monday , asking the same question about whether the UK should remain in Europe . These weekly referendums shall continue until the voters vote to stay in Europe . As soon as the "stay" vote is cast , then that stay result will be binding and the weekly referendums shall cease to happen and Brexit will be postponed and no more referendums asking the question shall ever take place again . Would you agree to that ? That would depend on the chosen day for the vote, no good at all if it clashes with hair washing day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, oldlakey said: Bluespunk, you have stated that you support the right for a new referendum I would simply like to know why I do not believe for one minute its got anything to do with democracy as you claim The remains were defeated in the last vote, thats why negotiations are under way Why is that so difficult for you to swallow or even understand I will repeat, The MAJORITY have spoken thats how DEMOCRACY is supposed to work I repeated what somebody else said to you about being a politician because I was, and still am unable to extract an answer to my question If you consider that an insult then report my post No, I have stated I support the right for others to exercise their democratic right to call for a referendum. I have no problem with another one being held if that is what happens. I equally have no problems if one is not held. Do not tell me what I have said. I have answered quite clearly what i feel. Without resorting to insults and snide asides either. If you want to know why they feel a referendum is justified, ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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