Tony Blair warns British voters: time is running out to stop Brexit folly

[sawadee1947]

Just now, oldhippy said:

 

Even with a 100% voter turnout my 2 fundamental critisisms of referenda still stand.

 

it is not a matter of right or wrong. My intention is to give you another point to think about

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

That's not quite right. You forgot one maybe most important point: Voter turnout. This is why we had a Brexit vote because the young people did not go.

64 % of the 18-25 year olds voted in the referendum 

[Bluespunk]

11 minutes ago, sanemax said:

No, it was agreed upon to hold just the one referendum .

If that wasnt the agreement, then, whens the second referendum scheduled for ?

 

Where and when was it agreed and by whom? 

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Where and when was it agreed and by whom? 

David Cameroon stated in his Conservative manifesto in 2009 that if he and his Party won the election, that they would hold a referendum  , *A* referendum, one referendum, not a series of them .

[sawadee1947]

6 minutes ago, sanemax said:

64 % of the 18-25 year olds voted in the referendum 

18-25:    66% for remain (10% non voters)

over 65: 59% for Brexit   (2%  non voters)

 

so the outdated old people obstructed the youth's future.

[sanemax]

1 minute ago, sawadee1947 said:

18-25:    66% for remain (10% non voters)

over 65: 59% for Brexit   (2%  non voters)

 

so the outdated old people obstructed the youth's future.

The older wise people have led the ignorant young to a brighter future

 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

David Cameroon stated in his Conservative manifesto in 2009 that if he and his Party won the election, that they would hold a referendum  , *A* referendum, one referendum, not a series of them .

A: And he said there would be no others?

 

B: That is a party political promise, it does not supersede the law and the statutes governing referendum. 

 

C: unless parliament enacts a law changing the statutes governing referendum, there is no legal impediment to holding another on the same topic. 

[oldhippy]

So nobody is willing to discuss the principle of referenda?

Not even you, Bluespunk?

 

[i claudius]

You mean other than having been the most electorally successful Labour Leader ever in General Elections?

And the bigest lying toad of a prime minister that Britain has ever seen .

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[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

18-25:    66% for remain (10% non voters)

over 65: 59% for Brexit   (2%  non voters)

 

so the outdated old people obstructed the youth's future.

 

 

You are confusing your small-minded view with the correct phrase................"The wiser, older sages voted to protect the futures of the most important things to them.... their children and grandchildren"

[i claudius]

18-25:    66% for remain (10% non voters)
over 65: 59% for Brexit   (2%  non voters)
 
so the outdated old people obstructed the youth's future.

So the older people who have been there done it seen it were not young enough to know everything Lucky that.

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[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

So nobody is willing to discuss the principle of referenda?

Not even you, Bluespunk?

 

I’ve never called for one, but I would never deny the others the right to do so. 

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

So nobody is willing to discuss the principle of referenda?

Not even you, Bluespunk?

 

You have made a rather stupid point , being that a referendum isnt democratic, when a referendum is pure democracy : one person, one vote , one issue , just how more democratic can you get then that ?

[oldhippy]

13 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I’ve never called for one, but I would never deny the others the right to do so. 

So you think that referenda fit in with parliamentary democracy?

 

I am talking about all referenda in all countries, not just the brexit referendum.

 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

So you think that referenda fit in with parliamentary democracy?

 

I am talking about all referenda in all countries, not just the brexit referendum.

 

If a countries electoral and governance laws allow for referendums, then that is their choice. 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

If a countries electoral and governance laws allow for referendums, then that is their choice. 

OK I give up.

You are talking exactly like a politician.

It is not possible to discuss principles with a politician.

 

 

 

 

 

[jayboy]

24 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You have made a rather stupid point , being that a referendum isnt democratic, when a referendum is pure democracy : one person, one vote , one issue , just how more democratic can you get then that ?

It is you that are in error.I would not accuse you of stupidity though that is also possible.The undemocratic nature of referendums has been the subject of discussion for at least a  century.As Clement Attlee pointed out they are a favoured device for demagogues and dictators.

[Basil B]

Why has Tony decided to speak out about Brexit now...

 

Could this be a smoke screen to detract attention from what he did not         ...or may have said to Jared Kushner?

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, jayboy said:

It is you that are in error.I would not accuse you of stupidity though that is also possible.The undemocratic nature of referendums has been the subject of discussion for at least a  century.As Clement Attlee pointed out they are a favoured device for demagogues and dictators.

Do explain what is un democratic about referendums ?

What is more democratic than one person, one vote, one question ?

Which "dictators have held referendums ?

 

[Bluespunk]

17 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

OK I give up.

You are talking exactly like a politician.

It is not possible to discuss principles with a politician.

 

 

 

 

 

It’s not for me to tell a nation how it rules itself. 

 

Nor do I dictate it’s principles to them. 

 

That always ends in tears. 

[jayboy]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Do explain what is un democratic about referendums ?

What is more democratic than one person, one vote, one question ?

Which "dictators have held referendums ?

 

Do a little research on the subject first.Then by all means discuss.

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Do a little research on the subject first.Then by all means discuss.

I would like you to explain how a dictator can hold a referendum .

Surely if a Dictator held a referendum, then he wouldnt be a Dictator ?

So, do explain what you mean

[oldhippy]

41 minutes ago, jayboy said:

Do a little research on the subject first.Then by all means discuss.

Let's give max a hint:

Pinochet.

Ah, hints don't cost money, here's another one:

Franco.

 

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been removed. 

[oldhippy]

3 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

It’s not for me to tell a nation how it rules itself. 

 

Nor do I dictate it’s principles to them. 

 

That always ends in tears. 

I will slightly change my question then.

 

Do you think that in YOUR OWN country referenda add to democracy or should your own country stick to parliamentary democracy?

 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I will slightly change my question then.

 

Do you think that in YOUR OWN country referenda add to democracy or should your own country stick to parliamentary democracy?

 

My country allows for both. 

 

My views on them are nothing to do with anyone as they have no relation to the OP. 

 

I have no desire to share them and will not be doing so. 

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

My country allows for both. 

 

My views on them are nothing to do with anyone as they have no relation to the OP. 

 

I have no desire to share them and will not be doing so. 

As I said before, you have all the characteristics of a politician.

Alas, it would be against forum rules for me to freely speak my mind about politicians.

 

As for me being off topic: Blair questions the eternal validity of 1 referendum, I question the democratic value of all referenda. Different, but same same.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

As I said before, you have all the characteristics of a politician.

Alas, it would be against forum rules for me to freely speak my mind about politicians.

 

As for me being off topic: Blair questions the eternal validity of 1 referendum, I question the democratic value of all referenda. Different, but same same.

 

 

You do not decide what I choose to discuss on this thread and your childish insults will not change that. 

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

David Cameroon stated in his Conservative manifesto in 2009 that if he and his Party won the election, that they would hold a referendum  , *A* referendum, one referendum, not a series of them .

A decision by one government does not preclude subsequent governments from enacting subsequent decisions or binding them thereof. Parliament is free to decide on the matter. Have another go.

[SheungWan]

On 1/4/2018 at 11:43 AM, colinneil said:

Tony Blair wants to shut up, he did enough damage to the UK when he was PM.  No he is trying to do the same.  Britain out of the EU he will probably lose out on a bit of cash.

No info of course. Just uninformed bombast. UK sustained growth between 1997 and 2007.