Fine For Not Carrying Your Passport

[Richard Hall]

Very interesting particularly that the actual name of the game is not necessary to make your passport your steady companion but rather just being able to identify oneself whether Thai or any other nationality. Fair and reasonably enough.

Actually, I do not carry my passport with me (except when things got wild during the APEC meeting time) but now I have put color copies on a single A4 size page of

- picture page of passport

- page indicating the visa I am holding

- page with the latest entry permit extension stamp

in my wallet IN ADDITION to the following original IDs:

- Thai drivers licenses (car and motorcycle)

- personal tax card (batr prajam tua pooh see-a pahsee)

- social insurance card (batr pragan sangkom)

- German ID card (with picture)

These are plenty of IDs all issued to the same name. Besides the very clear scanned/printed copies of the passport I carry 3 more picture IDs and two more without picture with me all the time and as a result I am going to continue to take the risk of not having my original passport with me to avoid losing and/or messing it terribly up with the time.

It is surely obvious if an officier is not satisfied with the above collection then there can be only one reason - he is just trying to extract money by abusing his power. Wonder how the situation will be seen by his surperiors at the police station but I made the experience in several situations the higher the rank the more open the ear for reasonable arguments (hedponn). Laws must be certainly obeyed to keep society working but if it comes to individuals bending and/or abusing them just for their personal advantage there must be limits.

Just curious (from a pure scientific point of view) how things are going to work out if I get stopped the first time to identiy myself but well, at least I am kind of prepared for this moment. Until then my passport may rest at home until it is time again for the 90 days report and/or the annual entry permit extension. Isn't human curiosity sometimes just puzzling? Nowadays when I come across police officiers I even tend to think "ask me.." but usually they ignore me entirely, smile and/or even greet by nodding. Is it my peaceful (or sheepish?) look?

A while ago a quite successful and also influential Thai business friend taught me: "NO ONE is able to follow all the laws and regulations in Thailand to the point and hence if 80% is reached this is absolutely fine and actually the utmost that can be realized. All is about compromises." Maybe that's why Thailand translates as the country of the free people despite a sometimes indeed breath taking appearing bureaucray.

[udon]

- Immigration Officers working at the Immigration Offices has no authority to go out and check foreigners’ passports/visas, not even if they have knowledge about irregularities. They must report it to Division 3, who then sends staff to investigate it.

- The ordinary Police, including Traffic Police, are authorized to ask you to identify your self. But they have no authority what so ever when it comes to checking your visa.

ProThaiExpat,

A good post. Thank you.

You know and I know and the reader knows the score now.

What will happen when we tell Traffic and Met Plod that he has no right to ask for our original passport?

Could be an interesting scenario! Ho, ho.

[cutethaigirl]

i thought the legal requirement was for a photo id with address like a drivers licence?

has to be said that carrying a passport around is not the safest thing in the world to do. Loss, theft etc.

CT

[drummer]

If I were a corrupt cop I'd be stopping every foreigner I saw. Expect it to get worse.

Except that the authorites that be don't want the cops to rip off the farangs too much - it'd dampen tourism. Don't kill the hen that laid the golden eggs...

[britainmal]

So, Traffic, ordinary, and tourist Police can ask to see your identfication, but not fine you. Only Immigration special division police can fine you. Is this correct?

[udon]

Yes!

But what worries me is that the MiB can haul you away for no good reason and liberate you at their whim and you can do ######all about it....

[simey]

Udon, don't keep feeding Britainmal lines lije this - he's already too wound up as it is.

I lived in Oz for a while and had similar problems while driving - they insist you carry your driving licence at all times while driving while I insisted I didn't want to carry my large UK driving licence around. Earlier this year I tried to send a parcel in Sydney and could not as I did not have photo id - this is to SEND the parcel, not to receive it.

All countries are getting tighter with security, and it will only get worse from here on in. I heard even the UK is talking about id cards now, and the met are in trouble for stop-and-search which they can do on a whim.

[El_D]

Any time the cops (especially traffic cops) are bugging you for big money (more than 500 baht) always offer to follow them to the police station and pay it there.

They'll inevitably start back-pedalling, as, the way I see it, if you pay the money at the police station then the corrupt bugger that's trying to fleece you will see none of the money.

I had a speeding fine rapidly drop from 2,000 baht to 500 baht when I smiled real big and said "NO PROBLEM! I go with you to police station. I pay there." Even if you're in a God-awful hurry and don't actually have the time to go to the police station, don't act like it. It's worth the bluff.

That was with an International driver's license though. Not sure how it would turn out with a Thai license.

I was only asked for my passport once in the past 3 & 1/2 years, at the Eckamai bus station, and I politely explained that it was at my apartment on Lat Prao Rd. I showed my US driver's license and let him poke around inside my overnight bag, and that was the end of it.

[ProThaiExpat]

Udon: On second thought, my post containing the advice from ThaiImmigration.com begs the question regarding visa examinations vs. just plain identification.

It would seem any police officer has the right to check IDs. Thus almost any type of ID should suffice, logically, however, who said it is a logical issue. It is arbitrary, depending on the police officer involved.

Offering to go to the police station so the "fine" will be shared with superiors seems to be an excellent negotiating tool.

I have traveled all over the world and always carried my passport. Now that I am at home, for some reason, my mind says leave the passport at home because I might lose it, when I have never done so before.

With all the flap pockets with velcour fasteners or buttons on men's pants, see no risk in carring mine. Had to accompany a friend of mine on a passport replacement once and it is no big deal.

Thus, I have copied every page of my passport and will keep the current extention copied, to keep at home when and if I ever lose the passport which I carry on my person. Just back from Pattaya and had occasion to show it a couple of times, hotel, rent-a-car, airlines, etc. Think nothing of carrying my passport while traveling, a much higher risk activity for loss of passport than travel around home, so why do we worry so much about carrying it at home?

[camerata]

More of the same, ie. each "official" does it his own way. For those not in full compliance, 500baht is a wonderful escape. Laminated copies might work with some, not others, we all pretty much know this, just hate the inconsistency.

Short of carrying your passport with you at all times, there is always a risk of something happening to you from paying your way out to jail.

Right. I was told by a police colonel that the law requires every foreigner to carry his passport at all times, just as Thais are required to carry their ID card. If you are stopped for some legitimate reason (terrorist alert, traffic offense etc) I think the police may well accept any convincing ID, preferably in Thai language or a copy of passport.

But if it's the pre-New Year late-night checkpoint in a dark soi, I doubt anything other than a current passport or cash will do.

[Bobcat]

So far, nobody has actually pointed to the law which states a foreigner must carry his/her passport at all times. I will find this law (if there is one) and post it here shortly.

[mai_ra_bu_cheu]

I have never been asked for my passport, after living in Central Bangkok for 9 years and the provinces for a couple of years. So, now I don't carry it. I know a few guys who have been asked frequently, but they look like bums. Dress appropriately. The pigs can tell the tourists a mile away, and the suckers who will give them some beer money.

I know as when I knew no better, I had a few beers too many and some security guards tried to get 500b off me for dropping a fag. Pinklao Pata.

If you look gullible/guilty they will stop you!

If you have been living here for a while and still get hassled by the tuk tuk drivers and vendors, take a look at the way you walk, or look.

I don't do many things which are " The Law".

I have ridden a motorcycle without wearing a helmet.

Rented cars without a license.

I have even worked without a permit, and on a tourist visa!

I used to play the illegal lottery and gamble playing snooker.

I did a few illegal things on Goh Pan Ngan, oh and Pat Pong, Nana Plaza and Cowboy.

I could go on and on, reporting every 90 days for an extended visa etc.

I take my chances by not carrying my passport, although I have a photocopy.

If they ever stop me and charge me 3000 baht then I may start carrying it.

If the threatened punishment is severe, then I will not do the crime, or at least cover myself. If it is insignificant like not carrying a passport or not reporting your address every 90 days, forget it.

I would like to think I could talk my way out of being scamm by a bloody tourist pig, or traffic one. Show no fear but surprise and have a laugh with them. One idea - keep a photo of something Thai in your wallet, maybe a Thai orphanage for AIDS kids. and distract them about that for a while. Heaps of other ways too, but I don't want everyone to use my ideas, then they won't work.

MRBC

Replying to Fine For Not Carrying Your Passport

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[maerim]

some security guards tried to get 500b off me for dropping a fag. Pinklao Pata.

You don't mention the medical condition of the fag after you dropped him.

Do you mean in the literal sense i.e. off one of the higher floors in a condo in Pattaya?

Or did you find a more attractive one? If so in my opinion 500 baht was cheap.

[cutethaigirl]

I don't do many things which are " The Law".

I have ridden a motorcycle without wearing a helmet. 

Rented cars without a license.

I have even worked without a permit, and on a tourist visa!

I used to play the illegal lottery and gamble playing snooker.

I did a few illegal things on Goh Pan Ngan, oh and Pat Pong, Nana Plaza and Cowboy.

I could go on and on, reporting every 90 days for an extended visa etc.

I take my chances by not carrying my passport, although I have a photocopy.

If they ever stop me and charge me 3000 baht then I may start carrying it.

If you ever write a guide how to behave in Thailand remind me not to read it!

[Axel]

Yes Bobcat, if you can find something...

Meanwhile, this whole subject is not new in here and was quite hot during the APEC-meeting.

At the moment we do not know the exact legislation in Thailand, the nearest I read, was the explanatin that everybody has to carry an ID-card. If you don't have one, use your p/port. Makes sense to me, same back home.

Generally, I daresay police will not stop you just to check for your passport.

exapt:

a) You behave or look suspicious

a) above and they want some money or are just bored.

How do you explain, that you did not act suspicious? Depens how well you speak Thai.

Anyway, let's act with common sense. carry your p/port at a time and a place where you would expect a check. That should be in discos and night places, as example. At railway stations and airports as another example.

Time? Especially Friaday/Saturday nights. If there is a check and the MiB are fed up for whatever reason you have a long wait til the next working day.

[jimbim]

I know that foreigners are required to carry their passports... but I work for a company that employs about 100 foreigners. The HR department asks that you leave your passport with them, since they would rather have it handy than have to track you down when they need it. But they suggest you carry a photocopy, though I doubt most people do.

I've never heard of there being a problem, which means nothing really, but it does suggest that this is a minor concern.

[george]

The passport is yours, not your employers. A photocopy is enough for them! Tell them that you must carry it in person, by law!

[DaveYo]

Well folks, this passport issue by far is interesting.

First why don't you fellas look at your passport closely. It says on your passport that you must carry it with you at all times while in a foreign country.

Secondly, yes make photocopies of your actual passport with all the latest information. Keep this in a safe place locked up and secured. If you lose your original passport, you can then go to your Embassy with your photocopies of your passport and get a new one. This cuts down on the process needed to issue you your new passport.

After that better get a receipt from the embassy showing that you got a new passport and the reasons why etc. and perhaps also a copy of a police report pertaining to your old passport and reasons why you no longer have it, and then go to the Immigration Dept and get your stamp put on it to show you are legally inside the country. At same token, bring along your photocopies of your old passport with the stamps photocopied. It will save you a lot of time and headaches because you are proving right up front that you entered legally and everything else. Because if you don't you cannot leave without a entry stamp or they will pull you aside and ditto you will be questioned and perhaps held and what not till they get something official. Guaranteed for you to miss your flight out without that entry stamp!!!!!!!!!!!

There is a lot involved to do and of course the precious time wasted if you LOSE THAT PASSPORT. SO GUARD IT AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDED ON IT. That passport is your bonifide ID in a foreign country. If you lose it or have it stolen, perhaps you then will learn the lesson the hard way. I hope you folks understand.

As of drivers license, yes they can take it away from you if you not pay tea money. They will hold it minimum 15 days, and then you can come and get it pay a larger fine that is pretty much set according to their laws, and at same token your traffic offense will be recorded and show you have been convicted of a traffic offence which makes it harder for you to get a thai drivers license if you never had one prior. So keeping your record clean in the eyes of Thai police is to your benefit. So pay the tea money instead if such occurs in your effort to keep a clean record. Usually the tea money ranges between 500 Baht to 1500 Baht. Depends on how desperate they are being in need of the Baht!!!!! Average is around 750 Baht to 800 Baht.

Daveyo

[penzman]

Secondly, yes make photocopies of your actual passport with all the latest information. Keep this in a safe place locked up and secured. If you lose your original passport, you can then go to your Embassy with your photocopies of your passport and get a new one. This cuts down on the process needed to issue you your new passport.

I do the opposite, no way I'm going to go through what happened last year when my passport disappeared and had to replace it. Waste of time and money.

I prefer leaving the passport home with copies and carry copies on me, another copy under the motorcycle seat, one in the car, one in my briefcase.... They all show pic, info, stamps and visa.

I think the odds of losing the passport are greater than being asked to show it and even greater that the officer will not be satisfied with a copy.

[DaveYo]

Well penzman, I won't argue on your assessment. It is your own call on how you want to do it.

I can agree on this one fact many times the passport is cumbersome and large as it is as far as having an ID. I would rather that somehow the darn governments can come up with a ID wallet size to carry on in person to go about in a foreign country that would be recognized world wide. Currently none have such system.

Also I do agree on point that the passport is a pain in the butt and its real purpose is and should be primarily used for entry and exiting countries period or for some official uses to prove your identity to obtain another ID card etc that is wallet size.

In some respects there is a lot of pros and cons concerning passport.

Daveyo

[RDN]

I carry my real passport at all times and keep a photocopy locked up in the room.

Ditto - I keep it and my driving license inside a sealable plastic bag (in case it rains) in my "cargo" shorts pocket. Have done for 18 months (not the same shorts...). I also photograph important documents - passport, driving license, bank book - using my digital camera and keep copies on my PC.

[Richard W]

First why don't you fellas look at your passport closely. It says on your passport that you must carry it with you at all times while in a foreign country.

Where?

[udon]

From bobcat...

So far, nobody has actually pointed to the law which states a foreigner must carry his/her passport at all times. I will find this law (if there is one) and post it here shortly.

Good idea. Esp if you can quote a Thai ref. number.

Paste it here in Thai and Ingrish so that we may copy it and carry in our wallets to show to the MiB.

That'll ######em.

[lopburi3]

Usually the tea money ranges between 500 Baht to 1500 Baht. Depends on how desperate they are being in need of the Baht!!!!! Average is around 750 Baht to 800 Baht.

In every incident where I have observed this practice the amount has been 200 baht. Recent observation is that tea money is often not accepted by police here in Bangkok and drivers are ticketed and pay fines of 500-1000 baht at police station.

[udon]

Can someone give me the forum url at ThaiImmigration.com ?

Nothing on that site seems to work!

TIA.

[britainmal]

Does anybody know the actual fine amount for not carrying your passport? All police units can fine a foreigner or only immigration police?

[Axel]

.....

As of drivers license, yes they can take it away from you if you not pay tea money.  They will hold it minimum 15 days, and then you can come and get it pay a larger fine that is pretty much set according to their laws, and at same token your traffic offense will be recorded and show you have been convicted of a traffic offence  which makes it harder for you to get a thai drivers license if you never had one prior.   So keeping your record clean in the eyes of Thai police is to your benefit.   So pay the tea money instead if such occurs in your effort to keep a clean record.  Usually the tea money ranges between 500 Baht to 1500 Baht.  Depends on how desperate they are being in need of the Baht!!!!!  Average is around 750 Baht to 800 Baht.

Daveyo

DaveYo, welcome back.

Don't overspend. The teamoney usually is smaller than the fine.

Expl. illegal u-turn. Baht 400, offer 100 and pay 200.

Exception: Crossing a red light without accident. Ticket 400 + two points in your licence, tea money 500, NO points.

If you do not pay teamoney the officer will keep your licence, give you a receipt, which is accepted by the next officer instead of licence.

Go next day to the station, pay the fine (against official receipt) and get your licence back.

[maerim]

As of drivers license, yes they can take it away from you if you not pay tea money.  They will hold it minimum 15 days, and then you can come and get it pay a larger fine that is pretty much set according to their laws, and at same token your traffic offense will be recorded and show you have been convicted of a traffic offence  which makes it harder for you to get a thai drivers license if you never had one prior.  So keeping your record clean in the eyes of Thai police is to your benefit.  So pay the tea money instead if such occurs in your effort to keep a clean record.  Usually the tea money ranges between 500 Baht to 1500 Baht.  Depends on how desperate they are being in need of the Baht!!!!!  Average is around 750 Baht to 800 Baht.

Daveyo

Do you actually live in Thailand or do you just guess at these aswers you post?

I was told you don't but there again the information I recieved could have been guessed at.

[udon]

britainmal,

I think your questions have been answered already!

[hongkongexpat]

Got in big trouble too, I've been here for 2 years in Bangkok, and have been caught twice without my Hong Kong SAR passport. I feel it is risky to carry it around, as I have had my passport stolen from my pocket in a busy shopping centre. It was a hassle getting it replaced, having to go to the Chinese Embassy, filling out the forms, and waiting 2 months.