Nazi style swastika items showing up more for sale in Pattaya

[Air Smiles]

I don't think these items being sold in markets are a sign that the Third Reich is regrouping in Pattaya.

 

These symbols only have the power you give to them.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Air Smiles

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Air Smiles said:

I don't think these items being sold in markets are a sign that the Third Reich is regrouping in Pattaya.

 

These symbols only have the power to you give them.

I agree that the Third Reich is not regrouping in Pattaya.

But there is an international rise in white supremacist political movements in a number of countries, and some of those groups use the Nazi swastika or transparent copy variations such as Greek fascist party (because even they know the Nazi swastika is really too explicit and inflamatory). 

As far as the power of the symbol -- don't act like it isn't offensive or relevant today, because it is, because it still represents Nazis either Third Reich ones or neo-Nazis, and that's an objective fact, even if you choose to filter out reality. 

As I've said several times already, not everyone sporting Nazi swastikas actually identifies with Nazi ideology, and I think most Thai Nazi fashion wearing youth don't, but some people do, and most of those people that do are white supremacists. Thus my curiosity about the FOREIGNERS here buying that stuff. 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jingthing

[Air Smiles]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As far as the power of the symbol -- don't act like it isn't offensive or relevant today, because it is, because it still represents Nazis either Third Reich ones or neo-Nazis, and that's an objective fact, even if you choose to filter out reality.

 

It's only offensive if you're offended and the symbol only has the power you give it ...these are also objective facts even if you choose to filter out reality. . 

 

The best way to treat Nazis is to laugh at them and make them an object of ridicule, not puff them up into imaginary monsters as that is their goal.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Air Smiles

[Jingthing]

 
It's only offensive if you're offended and the symbol only has the power you give it ...these are also objective facts even if you choose to filter out reality. . 
 
The best way to treat Nazis is to laugh at them and make them an object of ridicule, not puff them up into imaginary monsters as that is their goal.

Nazis are not imaginary. You are welcome to indulge in your fantasy thinking but neo Nazis are still murdering people for being minorities today. No need to respond. We have no common ground for discussion on this.

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Rimmer]

Totally off topic post and reply removed also a reply

[fred110]

Thailand still has free speech. You don't like it don't buy it.

[Jingthing]

44 minutes ago, fred110 said:

Thailand still has free speech. You don't like it don't buy it.

Thailand has "free speech" for selling Nazi merch. That's a far cry from asserting that Thailand in general has free speech. But that, my dear, is another topic.

 

[Jingthing]

Not really my thing, but it might be an interesting youtube project to hang out at one of these Nazi merch for tourists displays and record reactions to it, interviewing people of different nationalities for their feelings about it, observing anyone buying the stuff and trying to interview them as well. Of course the vendors likely wouldn't allow that activity to happen unless you paid them ... 

[pegman]

On January 19, 2018 at 6:25 AM, Jingthing said:

I agree that the Third Reich is not regrouping in Pattaya. 

Agreed, but not sure about the Darkside.

[Rimmer]

A troll post in poor taste has been removed, also a reply

[geriatrickid]

On 1/19/2018 at 1:41 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Here we go again.

This topic has been resurrected several times and being on TVF isn't going to change anything.

Plenty of bike gangsters wearing German WW2 helmet reproductions in my country and we fought Hitler. I believe American bike gangsters also like wearing them.

Let's not forget a certain popular prince wearing a Nazi uniform to a party or something, not too many years ago .

 

The helmet reproductions you refer to are not nazi  symbols. The helmet style was first introduced in WWI and had been in common use. In the USA, the style is commonly known as Daytona style after the  manufacturer. If the bikers want to wear them, good. I say that because they are a poor design in respect to offering protection and  more often than not, the wearers of such helmet styles still incur serious or fatal injuries when they fall off their bike. A modified  flared back design is now commonly used by other militaries such as the USA & Canada. This doesn't make them nazi supporters.

 

In respect to the Prince and his halloween costume, the event was taken out of context. He was not wearing it with intent to hurt. He was a 20 year old going through a difficult adjustment phase under the influence of alcohol, cannabis and  some bad people who manipulated him into activities that would embarrass the family. That doesn't excuse the poor judgement, but he was set straight through immediate public & private admonishment. I can assure you that his grandfather who had served in combat and lost many close friends and had relatives imprisoned, and his grandmother who had lost  an uncle serving during the war along with many friends, court members and other members of the family, were both hurt and distressed by the display. You can be assured that they quite literally tore a strip off of him.   That type of guidance is rarely provided in Thailand and if a hiso in Thailand did similar, it is unlikely the media would raise the issue in the same manner as was done in the UK.

 

In any case, the issue is Thailand and its moral compass, not an isolated incident in the UK, nor pseudo bike helmets. 

 

22 hours ago, fred110 said:

Thailand still has free speech. You don't like it don't buy it.

When did Thailand get free speech? Seriously, did you watch the news in the last 24 hours. You know that 'thing" about  health care and human rights? Does 200 police stopping the event ring a bell?  Selling hate merchandise has nothing to do with free speech. This isn't for academic or educational pr public benefit purposes. 

 

I don't think people in Asia are aware, but the German government of the period was active in Japanese occupied Asia. German officials were tasked with sourcing raw materials including rubber, silk and oil from occupied Asia. The slave labour use by Japan wasn't just for Japan's benefit. Thai forced labour helped the Axis cause. The diabolical, barbaric and savage  live experiments on  humans including allied POWs was in some cases aided and abetted by the  German emissaries. This aspect of the war is glossed over as are the atrocities of  Japan's Unit 731. Racism facilitated  the western refusal to prosecute the Japanese for these war crimes. Only the Russians had the moral courage to proceed, as Russia and Japan had engaged in combat by the end of the war.

 

 

[tifino]

On 1/19/2018 at 11:21 PM, Air Smiles said:

I don't think these items being sold in markets are a sign that the Third Reich is regrouping in Pattaya.

 

These symbols only have the power you give to them.

the only link I can make between the Third Reich & Pattaya;

 is that all you see left are Russians going belly-out... and their ongoing (midrift) Battle of the Bulge

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

The helmet reproductions you refer to are not nazi  symbols. The helmet style was first introduced in WWI and had been in common use. In the USA, the style is commonly known as Daytona style after the  manufacturer. If the bikers want to wear them, good. I say that because they are a poor design in respect to offering protection and  more often than not, the wearers of such helmet styles still incur serious or fatal injuries when they fall off their bike. A modified  flared back design is now commonly used by other militaries such as the USA & Canada. This doesn't make them nazi supporters.

 

In respect to the Prince and his halloween costume, the event was taken out of context. He was not wearing it with intent to hurt. He was a 20 year old going through a difficult adjustment phase under the influence of alcohol, cannabis and  some bad people who manipulated him into activities that would embarrass the family. That doesn't excuse the poor judgement, but he was set straight through immediate public & private admonishment. I can assure you that his grandfather who had served in combat and lost many close friends and had relatives imprisoned, and his grandmother who had lost  an uncle serving during the war along with many friends, court members and other members of the family, were both hurt and distressed by the display. You can be assured that they quite literally tore a strip off of him.   That type of guidance is rarely provided in Thailand and if a hiso in Thailand did similar, it is unlikely the media would raise the issue in the same manner as was done in the UK.

 

In any case, the issue is Thailand and its moral compass, not an isolated incident in the UK, nor pseudo bike helmets. 

 

When did Thailand get free speech? Seriously, did you watch the news in the last 24 hours. You know that 'thing" about  health care and human rights? Does 200 police stopping the event ring a bell?  Selling hate merchandise has nothing to do with free speech. This isn't for academic or educational pr public benefit purposes. 

 

I don't think people in Asia are aware, but the German government of the period was active in Japanese occupied Asia. German officials were tasked with sourcing raw materials including rubber, silk and oil from occupied Asia. The slave labour use by Japan wasn't just for Japan's benefit. Thai forced labour helped the Axis cause. The diabolical, barbaric and savage  live experiments on  humans including allied POWs was in some cases aided and abetted by the  German emissaries. This aspect of the war is glossed over as are the atrocities of  Japan's Unit 731. Racism facilitated  the western refusal to prosecute the Japanese for these war crimes. Only the Russians had the moral courage to proceed, as Russia and Japan had engaged in combat by the end of the war.

 

 

The helmet reproductions you refer to are not nazi  symbols.

LOL. The bike gangsters think they are, which is why they wear them.

 

In respect to the Prince and his halloween costume, the event was taken out of context. He was not wearing it with intent to hurt.

Perhaps you could give those that buy such in LOS the same leeway.

I don't see any brown shirt marches anywhere here.

 

as are the atrocities of  Japan's Unit 731. Racism facilitated  the western refusal to prosecute the Japanese for these war crimes.

Seriously? The US allowed them immunity in exchange for their research on biological warfare. It's well documented on that shameful episode of US post war behaviour.

[Rimmer]

Troll post removed

[Grauwulf]

Who really cares? War is war and every Nation throughout history has committed in some shape or form war atrocities or crimes. If the Thais want to sell what was once a political or National symbol be it swastika, hammer and sickle, Confederate flag, Japanese rising Sun or the Union Jack it’s all about fashion and making money. You can buy all sorts of cheap tourist tack all over the world. Personally I don’t get offended life’s just too short

[Tariya]

That's the problem. "Who really cares" and "..."life's just too short" were predominant attitudes that gave rise to the nazi swastika in the first place. What's changed today is the growing neo-nazism in Germany and Switzerland and Eastern Europe is easily bounced around the world via social media. So many disaffected people with so little historical perspective, so much disaffected media with so much irresponsibility. The nazi swastika...the faddist Thai teenager can easily adopt its meaning. Look at Myanmar!  

Edited January 25, 2018 by Tariya

[Jingthing]

There appears to be current interest in this general topic based on this thread about the Nazi stuff stall currently at the 2nd road side of Royal Garden Plaza --

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1026350-nazi-items-for-sale-next-to-royal-garden-plaza/

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Jingthing

[balo]

My thread was closed, no problem , just first time I have seen a "nazi stand" outside a big shopping mall where the tourist traffic is huge.

Anyway I sent a message to RGP on Facebook with a link so hopefully they will do something about it. 

 

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, balo said:

My thread was closed, no problem , just first time I have seen a "nazi stand" outside a big shopping mall where the tourist traffic is huge.

Anyway I sent a message to RGP on Facebook with a link so hopefully they will do something about it. 

 

I hope that helps. 

[Fish Head Soup]

Hitler Chicken in Ubon Ratchathani was nice. Shame it closed down.

 

[talahtnut]

Hitler spotted, alive and well living in Newcastle,  taking a punt at his local bookies.

[revelstone]

On 19/01/2018 at 11:57 AM, johnnyonesock said:

we have all been programmed to react with revulsion to these symbols by the media and education system in the West and the reason for that is not really about what may or may not have happened during WW2 but rather that the philosophy behind National Socialism (Nazi) is a polar opposite to the political indoctrination being touted today...nobody says anything about the hammer and sickle  symbol of the Soviet Union communist system which killed tens of millions in Russia and world wide from 1917- 1990

 

Oh we do. Stalin was right up there with Hitler as a genocidal madman and history remembers him as such. Let's not also forget Pol Pot. 

[revelstone]

On 18/01/2018 at 5:14 PM, lonewolf99 said:

Hugo Boss...........................

 

Was a Nazi and designed and manufactured the  Nazi Uniform.

The SS black uniform and Wermacht and Wafen SS uniforms before branching out to men suits and accessories....

 

So before you post on here and decry the swastika  take a look in your wardrobe or aftershave label !!

 

I own nothing of Hugo Boss label and have never bought any of it.

 

The list of German companies who profited from the Holocaust is way longer than just Hugo Boss. It includes Krupp, Siemens, Bayer, BASF, Deutsche Bank, Dresdner Bank, Allianz, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Volkswagen and others. 

[revelstone]

On 18/01/2018 at 10:24 AM, Just Weird said:

What's your point, you don't like what a vendor is selling legally?  So move on, it's not your business, is it?    Are they committing any offence by selling them?  

 

You haven't made such a song and dance about illegal sex toys being sold so presumably you condone that, do you?

 

A sex toy is not symbolic of the extermination of six million people and the plunging of the world into a war that killed tens of millions more. Don't conflate the two because they're not even close to being in the same league.

 

Are they committing an offence by selling them? Hell, yes. They're sullying the memory of the countless tens of millions of people who died to rid the world of the abomination of nazism.

 

This attitude is the one that led the German people to ignore their government's crimes against humanity. 

[norrska]

Nazis are so passe....it's all about Kin Jong Un haircuts these days.  Get with the times people!

[owl sees all]

Some are offended for simple things; the koran, flags, ladyboys, anthems etc. People need to be more thick-skinned.

 

 

[revelstone]

I have an anecdote to add this thread. I do believe that most Thai people are ignorant of the atrocities of the Nazi regime. The collaborationist government of the time was allied with the Axis powers and modern Thai education certainly doesn't want to remind their people of their complicity with the Japanese war machine. So they conveniently forget about it. 

 

About 5 years ago I was walking with my middle class, well-educated Thai girlfriend through Chatuchak market. I saw a stall selling Nazi memorabilia. I was pretty outraged and angered by it, as it was the first time I had seen such open display of Nazi memorabilia in Thailand. She couldn't understand my anger and in turn got a little annoyed with me for calling out the stall owner and asking if he understood what it meant. 

 

When we got home, I sat her down and showed her photos of the Holocaust. Then I put on the the movie Schindler's List. She was crying by the time the movie was finished. She said she never knew and she understands now why Westerners react with such revulsion to Nazi symbols.  

[owl sees all]

19 minutes ago, revelstone said:

I have an anecdote to add this thread. I do believe that most Thai people are ignorant of the atrocities of the Nazi regime. The collaborationist government of the time was allied with the Axis powers and modern Thai education certainly doesn't want to remind their people of their complicity with the Japanese war machine. So they conveniently forget about it. 

 

The Thai education system does not include research, asking questions or truth-seeking. Thailand is not called the 'land of secrets and half-truths' for nothing.

 

That said about Thailand; what about that UK royal family member who dressed up as a Nazi quite recently?! And those pics of the UK royals giving the Nazi salute?! As an English man these people are more disgusting to me than an ignorant market trader in a third world - know nothing - country.

Edited February 24, 2018 by owl sees all

[revelstone]

14 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

The Thai education system does not include research, asking questions or truth-seeking. Thailand is not called the 'land of secrets and half-truths' for nothing.

 

That said about Thailand; what about that UK royal family member who dressed up as a Nazi quite recently?! And those pics of the UK royals giving the Nazi salute?! As an English man these people are more disgusting to me than an ignorant market trader in a third world - know nothing - country.

 

Indeed. In the case of the market trader, ignorance is a mitigating factor. In the incidents you refer to, there is no mitigating factor. That's why the press so rightly vilified them. 

[Rally123]

On 1/17/2018 at 11:17 PM, Jingthing said:

They seem to be in tourist areas aimed at non-Thai tourists.

Absolutely. More and more Indians are visiting Pattaya. It's aimed at them. 

 

Quote

The swastika (as a character 卐 or 卍) is an ancient religious icon used in the Indian subcontinent, East Asia and Southeast Asia, where it has been and remains a sacred symbol of spiritual principles in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

Stop trying to stir up something that isn't there.