Thailand suggests slower bullet train amid high cost estimate

[nong38]

4 hours ago, Dave67 said:

If they didn't  do a dynamic weight bearing test or do one properly on a viaduct and/or tunnel. Monitoring the settlement basically until it stops sinking so it may be that and the viaduct or Tunnel has moved (Normal Standard for Dynamic bearing weight test 3 months). We had Tunnel sink in Malaysia so we had redesign the thickness of the track.

 

Might be shoddy welding and grinding as well either onsite or in the factory, The rails are flash butted together and the brought to the site and welded into a continuous welded rail. If the bump is about every 150-200 metres it may be the site welds (AT) 

 

The laser technology is spot on adapted for the railway on a trolly with a screen with readings. Once you get the track spot on, No other work should take place after the survey only casting. Someone may have moved the track before casting putting formwork up (Happened to me a few times) So that's something else it could be

 

It's a brand new railway so it shouldn't be happening

It might be that the original contractor is hoping for repeat business to come and sort out the problem, that seems to be the way things work with roads that are built on the cheap here, a recurring story that never ends.

[connda]

The first "high speed train" +"buffalo" incident will demolish the industry.  Interject "car", "person", "sleeping drunk on the tracks", "truck", "semi", "failed brakes", "engineer falls asleep", and welcome to Thailand.
They can't even construct a proper limited access expressway here.  How's a "bullet-train" without carnage going to happen?  Really.  Jing jing!
Regardless of the window dressing, this is still a third-world country outside of BKK.

Edited January 19, 2018 by connda

[bluesofa]

4 minutes ago, connda said:

[snipped]  How's a "bullet-train" without carnage going to happen?

I suppose a bullet train would be something of a "shot in the dark" for Thailand...

[sorry!]

[tomacht8]

They should skip this Project and

giving all involved a free wristwatch.

Problem solved.

[Thian]

1 hour ago, nong38 said:

It might be that the original contractor is hoping for repeat business to come and sort out the problem, that seems to be the way things work with roads that are built on the cheap here, a recurring story that never ends.

I agree but i don't see that happen, we can't miss the skytrain anymore cause people rely on it.

 

Also the trains i don't see it happen...we would get new citybuses, firetrucks, riverboats, piers and at the end nothing came at all.

 

Thailand does not improve anything, traffic jam is terrible and so are the deadly roadaccidents.

[Will E Vormer]

A slower bullet train. What a farce

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Enoon]

11 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

About 80 years ago, this beautiful old girl achieved over 200km/h (126mph) on the English east coast mainline.

A speed which may be achieved here in Thailand in my lifetime.

The Thais will have to bite the bullet train and admit they are neither Japan or China, not even Taiwan.

Perhaps they can aim for fast, comfortable, safe, on-time trains like they had in the UK 100 years ago.

That would be a start.

 

Went to see Mallard on a run from Scarborough back to York in the mid 80's.

 

For some reason the girl that I took with me (to whom I had given the assurance that this was something "really special") was completely, totally, unimpressed as an icon of the great age of steam whistled past.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Enoon

[ratcatcher]

30 minutes ago, Enoon said:

Went to see Mallard on a run from Scarborough back to York in the mid 80's.

For some reason the girl that I took with me (to whom I had given the assurance that this was something "really special") was completely, totally, unimpressed as an icon of the great age of steam whistled past.

Women are rarely impressed at the sight of a piston thrusting back and forth inside a cylinder with a great deal of noise and steam...

[nong38]

First world technology in third world hands does not work! First bring third world up to standard, then move to second world and move the bar up, then move to first, there is a way to go, no short cuts or disaster will strike. 

First thing to admit is that you are a third world country which aspires to be better and then prove it.

[nong38]

14 minutes ago, ratcatcher said:

Women are rarely impressed at the sight of a piston thrusting back and forth inside a cylinder with a great deal of noise and steam...

I would beg to disagree, I saw the Mallard at York in the 80's as well, alas it will probably never run again, but, my daughter has been on the footplate of Sir Nigel Gresley, Deltic Pinza and an HST at Kings Cross, she knows about railway icons and the difference between a 3 cylinder loco and a 2 cylinder. I think you would be surprised how many women are interested and take the kids along.

[chickenslegs]

1 hour ago, Enoon said:

 

Went to see Mallard on a run from Scarborough back to York in the mid 80's.

 

For some reason the girl that I took with me (to whom I had given the assurance that this was something "really special") was completely, totally, unimpressed as an icon of the great age of steam whistled past.

 

 

 

 

I took my lady to see her too.

A dirty old boiler with a tender behind - but the train was magnificent.

 

I'll get my coat.

[thaibeachlovers]

Well, I must be psychic as that OP was no surprise to me. I'm forcasting that we will see further pronouncements reducing the speed even further, till the entire project just sort of withers away.

IMO it is all a Trojan horse to get the public ready for the construction of the bog standard speed freight only line transporting Chinese goods to a port on the west coast.

Of course, time will tell.

While waiting, enjoy the current service. Personally, I like travelling on Thailand's railways at a speed I can appreciate the scenery.

[Ruffian Dick]

Actually, it makes sense to delay building this until after a light rail system is built in CM (at least 2022).

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Thian said:

Well it's made by ItalThai and the carriages are made in Yokohama i noticed so they ordered the best quality for everything but still it's not perfect.

 

But it seems you're in it, do you know why the purple line has to be so high above the ground? We need 2 long escalators to arrive at the deck and i don't understand why that is....half as high would also work fine me thinks.

Perhaps they are allowing space for something ( track or road ) to pass under in the future. Or someone's cousin owns a cement factory. Take your pick.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Actually, it makes sense to delay building this until after a light rail system is built in CM (at least 2022).

That would actually be 2122, wouldn't it?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, chickenslegs said:

I took my lady to see her too.

A dirty old boiler with a tender behind - but the train was magnificent.

 

I'll get my coat.

I didn't expect to be reading the comedy club on this thread, but keep it up, guys. I need the laughs.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, Dave67 said:

If they didn't  do a dynamic weight bearing test or do one properly on a viaduct and/or tunnel. Monitoring the settlement basically until it stops sinking so it may be that and the viaduct or Tunnel has moved (Normal Standard for Dynamic bearing weight test 3 months). We had Tunnel sink in Malaysia so we had redesign the thickness of the track.

 

Might be shoddy welding and grinding as well either onsite or in the factory, The rails are flash butted together and the brought to the site and welded into a continuous welded rail. If the bump is about every 150-200 metres it may be the site welds (AT) 

 

The laser technology is spot on adapted for the railway on a trolly with a screen with readings. Once you get the track spot on, No other work should take place after the survey only casting. Someone may have moved the track before casting putting formwork up (Happened to me a few times) So that's something else it could be

 

It's a brand new railway so it shouldn't be happening

Might be shoddy welding and grinding as well either onsite or in the factory,

Only to be expected when the guy doing the welding/ grinding was probably planting rice in Burma the previous week.

5555555555555555555

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Cadbury said:

There seems to be a great deal of variation in the reporting of the speed of these trains. 

I took my information from Wiki which states 250kph (both the Japan and China lines) although that source does qualify 250kph as being the maximum. So maybe 200kph is norm while 250 is max. Who really knows?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_rail_in_Thailand#Bangkok-Chiang_Mai_Shinkansen

Seriously, would anyone been in LOS a few years ride a train here that travels at a minimum speed of 200kph?

The only reason they upgraded the line north of Bkk to Chiang Mai is that trains kept falling off the tracks. Then there was the line in the hills that collapsed, because there was a bit of rain that washed the embankment away, and they fixed it by apparently just pushing the dirt back under the track.

I'm happy to travel at a speed that is survivable when something goes wrong.

Edited January 19, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[Dave67]

8 hours ago, nong38 said:

It might be that the original contractor is hoping for repeat business to come and sort out the problem, that seems to be the way things work with roads that are built on the cheap here, a recurring story that never ends.

Normally the contractors have a 2 year DLP(Defect Liability Period) where they can go back and fix defects at their own expense. Its to stop the client, in this case, BTS, getting another contractor and back charging the original contractor +25%.for the rectification works. So the DLP is to protect both client and contractor, Just crap workmanship in this case IMO

[Dave67]

8 hours ago, connda said:

The first "high speed train" +"buffalo" incident will demolish the industry.  Interject "car", "person", "sleeping drunk on the tracks", "truck", "semi", "failed brakes", "engineer falls asleep", and welcome to Thailand.
They can't even construct a proper limited access expressway here.  How's a "bullet-train" without carnage going to happen?  Really.  Jing jing!
Regardless of the window dressing, this is still a third-world country outside of BKK.

Agree with most of that, I've seen what a train going at 200kph can do to people and animals basically they explode. I was walking through Harrow and Wealdstone station doing a track inspect and a BR through train passed and I knew, by the way he blew the horn that something was wrong, normally they give you a little toot and you raise your right hand to show the driver you are aware there is a train there. So I walked up the platform and there was a leg on the track nothing else. It takes a train 2km to stop travelling at 200kph and we had a maintenance gang nearby and all that was left on the body was a red mist down the side of the train and parts of a T-shirt in the buffers

[jacko45k]

Here we go, the frequent politicians approach of chopping up an ambitious project to look good and save 'the people' money, (while likely receiving a bit). And supplying a service that does not meet the needs and has to be revisited in the future, by the next generation. I always felt the Skytrain was developed this way.

 

 

[ozmeldo]

All they need is a reliable, comfortable train with plushy bed. Just do an overnight...wake up ON TIME at destination 615am. B600

 

High tech is not always the answer

[lamyai3]

2 minutes ago, ozmeldo said:

All they need is a reliable, comfortable train with plushy bed. Just do an overnight...wake up ON TIME at destination 615am. B600

 

High tech is not always the answer

This is how I experienced the sleeper trains here in the 90s. Bedding was comfortable, beer was cheap and plentiful in the dining car.

[Thian]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps they are allowing space for something ( track or road ) to pass under in the future. Or someone's cousin owns a cement factory. Take your pick.

A motocycle lane hanging under the purple line would be great!

[isaanbanhou]

There is not enough graft in a a quality simple efficient rale system.  If you go hitech, stae of the art bullet train and start building form the border to wards Bangkok, it is garuanteed everyone will get fat.

[wayned]

46 minutes ago, Thian said:

A motocycle lane hanging under the purple line would be great!

within a month it would be clogged with food stalls!

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

This is how I experienced the sleeper trains here in the 90s. Bedding was comfortable, beer was cheap and plentiful in the dining car.

Oh don't get me started on that one!

 

I remember exactly the same. Second class berth with a fan and windows you could lower to increase a nice flow of air.

The service was excellent. Staff would come round, show you the menu to choose your meal and serve it to you at your seat. They would also serve beer to your seat for as long as you wanted.

 

I've travelled in the new "improved" carriages recently (Udon>Bkk). All freezing cold air-con with sealed windows.

No service to your seat. If you want food, go the the restaurant car and eat there.
No one coming round selling coffee first thing in the morning any more - go to the restaurant car and buy your own.

 

Obviously beer is banned (even consuming your own) down to one temporary employee who was on drugs and also drunk, who raped and killed a teenager travelling alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making out it wasn't an awful crime, but if the SRT selected employees more carefully and they were made to be responsible, then everyone else using the service perhaps wouldn't have these restrictions as a result of the (mis-)management knee-jerk reaction.

 

Overall the new carriages and service is not an improvement on what we had before, even though the price has increased 50%.

<rant over>

 

[neeray]

8 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Oh don't get me started on that one!

 

I remember exactly the same. Second class berth with a fan and windows you could lower to increase a nice flow of air.

The service was excellent. Staff would come round, show you the menu to choose your meal and serve it to you at your seat. They would also serve beer to your seat for as long as you wanted.

 

I've travelled in the new "improved" carriages recently (Udon>Bkk). All freezing cold air-con with sealed windows.

No service to your seat. If you want food, go the the restaurant car and eat there.
No one coming round selling coffee first thing in the morning any more - go to the restaurant car and buy your own.

 

Obviously beer is banned (even consuming your own) down to one temporary employee who was on drugs and also drunk, who raped and killed a teenager travelling alone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not making out it wasn't an awful crime, but if the SRT selected employees more carefully and they were made to be responsible, then everyone else using the service perhaps wouldn't have these restrictions as a result of the (mis-)management knee-jerk reaction.

 

Overall the new carriages and service is not an improvement on what we had before, even though the price has increased 50%.

<rant over>

 

My gf and I have used the train many times between CM and Bkk and onto Surat Thani, back and forth. This mode of transport was predicated on the weight of our luggage. But, we loved every minute of the rides in the old trains, open windows, great scenery, wonderful service. What a hoot ! We always travelled starting late afternoon, take in some scenery and then get comfy in our births (usually only used ONE).  I appreciate that this wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, especially the 5 star crowd but it sure did work for us. The newer trains just wouldn't be the same experience in my opinion.

[Dave67]

16 hours ago, Thian said:

Well it's made by ItalThai and the carriages are made in Yokohama i noticed so they ordered the best quality for everything but still it's not perfect.

 

But it seems you're in it, do you know why the purple line has to be so high above the ground? We need 2 long escalators to arrive at the deck and i don't understand why that is....half as high would also work fine me thinks.

Whats the terrain like around it? The price of land or property anywhere near a new station goes up dramatically especially on the outskirts of a town or city. That's how many big companies make money buy the land around the station areas before the project. Maybe as others have posted as well elevated road ect, Put it this way the higher the viaduct the higher the cost, more concrete, reinforcement in the columns so its high for a reason

[Thian]

6 minutes ago, Dave67 said:

Whats the terrain like around it? The price of land or property anywhere near a new station goes up dramatically especially on the outskirts of a town or city. That's how many big companies make money buy the land around the station areas before the project. Maybe as others have posted as well elevated road ect, Put it this way the higher the viaduct the higher the cost, more concrete, reinforcement in the columns so its high for a reason

The purple line goes through the subs, at every station they are building skyscrapers now...

 

But to get to the skytrain they built huge entrances, 2 long escalators and huge platforms halfway. All is oversized.

 

The sidewalks to the stations are still very crappy though, and very dangerous...full of holes, hanging wires, mud and so on.

 

I even spotted a new condominium called "rich park condominium"  and at the river they don't build nice large condo's with a  view....i wonder why that is.