Is it common for a school to terminate employment on the basis of not returning the next year?

[thedan663]

I signed a contract at a school in October to work until March 31. The school processed the paperwork and I got my 3-month non-B ending February 27. Then I got my work permit. The next step is to extend the non-B to March 31 based on employment. I'm told that can happen next when there is under 30 days left on the visa. The school does all of this in Bangkok.

 

They gave a form out today asking if we will return or not next year. I have to go back home, so I will not return. I need to answer by Friday, January 25.

 

My concern is that if I tell them I will not return, they will terminate employment early to get out of paying me and getting my non-B visa. The problem is that the actual teaching ends February 16, grades must be in by February 23. In March, we basically come in to school and do any extra work they need. But I've heard it's usually just coming in and doing nothing, so I'm concerned the school will try to get out of it.

 

Is it common for a school to cut a contract early due to a teacher not returning? Is the process for extending the non-B for the remainder of the contract costly or complicated for the school? Are there any legal means to prevent a school doing this?

 

All the other teachers were on 11-month contracts so they have their extended non-B's. I'm alone in that I can't quite receive the extension yet. I would love some input as this affects my plans. I planned on travelling a bit around SE Asia after March 31 and then going home, so the school ending the contract early would affect all of that.

[PoorSucker]

Moved to teaching forum.

[Lamkyong]

two choices lie or tell the truth   totally your choice

[beavercreek]

People make a big fuss about ten and eleven month contracts, but I sure as heck don't want people like that owing me pay, at the end of the term.  Someone, who can be trusted with 200 students, should really be able to budget their money.  Yes your case is different, and likely more of a reason for them to snake you.  Lie, do the runner.  Tell them your mom died.

Edited January 19, 2018 by beavercreek

[gerryBScot]

I'd be sweating about getting paid for February if your visa ends 27th February. If pay day is last day of the month, the admin will be aware you should be gone the day before. 

[FritsSikkink]

So you don't have to do any work before your visa ends. Get a tourist visa, get paid and go home. Why should they go trough all the paperwork and costs if you will do a runner  anyhow. 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by FritsSikkink

[ozmeldo]

Given when you'd signed, they might terminate you. They certainly have no need for you especially and assuming you're teaching in an unspectacular school. Are there teaching packets that you might work on for Thai teachers or worksheets?

 

Fair enough, school is finished and that time is for next year's lesson planning.

 

The I have to go home whinge.

 

Getting thrown in jail for taxes?

 

Parent on deathbed?

 

You don't have to go home.

[ozmeldo]

9 hours ago, gerryBScot said:

I'd be sweating about getting paid for February if your visa ends 27th February. If pay day is last day of the month, the admin will be aware you should be gone the day before. 

Doubt they would know or realize this at a school and then not pay bc they can. An agency maybe but a school, that's pretty cynical.

[gerryBScot]

2 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

 An agency maybe but a school, that's pretty cynical.

11 month contract, to remove the need for the payment of a 'long' holiday, and engaging teachers as temporary when the positions are in clearly full time, ( Q. Why are they asking 'temporary' teachers to state if they intend to return for  next year? A. Because they are full time positions - they need to fill the same positions with teachers to teach the same subjects next year ....but sorry we don't do paid holidays!) ... I would say this is a deeply cynical operation. Does the school in question's name rhyme with Kiss My A** ?!

[thedan663]

Interesting responses. The school is reputable, but still a government school. While my visa does end February 27, the plan is to extend it until March 31 per the contract. We just cannot do that until there is a month left apparently. The school has already got the non-B and work permit, I don't know how much of a hassle (if any) to simply extend it for the remainder of the contract.

 

It's a sad state of affairs when the decision to lie or tell the truth depends on the school's honesty. Will try to ask other teachers at the school, though only one has been there for awhile.

Edited January 20, 2018 by thedan663

[wombat]

pmsl...welcome to the maitrix.

 

[gerryBScot]

As far as I know it costs 1900 THB to extend the visa and lots of paperwork the most difficult bit being a confirmation from the local education board that they are happy for you to be a teacher. The likelihood is one of the admin goes to the education office and gets them to sign the letter - it's a standard format sort of thing. Not exactly burdensome ...

[fake farang]

15 hours ago, beavercreek said:

 ..........

 Lie, do the runner.  Tell them your mom died.

On the safe side, better be sure the mom already dead.

[Wake Up]

17 hours ago, Lamkyong said:

two choices lie or tell the truth   totally your choice

Agree. Question for OP is if it is worth  being dishonest to avoid the risk of losing a couple paychecks and risk of being mistreated. If yes then OP your integrity is not worth much. But up to you. 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Wake Up

[ThaiFelix]

If it was me, with my experience from working for one of a large chain of private bilingual schools for 10 years, I would lie.  I cant speak for govt schools but my school would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to save a few baht.

 

I would be talking to the other teachers there but you say only one is long term.  That would also raise questions for me too??

[gerryBScot]

12 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

........ working for one of a large chain of private bilingual schools ........... my school would stop at nothing, and I mean nothing, to save a few baht.

 

 

Must be the one that rhymes with Kiss my A**!

[MyFriend You]

Basically - if I was your employer and you told me you would not be returning next year, I wouldn't hire you at all  -  I had a pregnant lady apply for a job, I didn't hire her, she took us to court and won, we got 3 months work(??) out of her, had to pay her 300 hrs pregnancy medial leave, then 120 days leave with pay for maternity leave, she came back and I fired her.  Of course that was not in Thailand, but you get my point   -  If I knew you were not coming back, why would I go thru all the trouble of getting you the Non-B and Work Permit??  Plenty of other teachers looking for work.   Don't tell them.

[Soneva]

As another poster has mentioned, the school is being unfair by asking you to sign a commitment to work next year. If they want that level of commitment, they have no business signing teachers on short term contracts to get out of having to pay them over long school holidays.

If your contract ends on a certain date, you have no obligation to remind them of that or to work beyond that date.

The standard notice period is one pay cycle under the labor laws. Contracts may stipulate longer notice periods before leaving, but none of that is really enforceable in labor court.

The short answer is: lie. Simply tell them you will continue next year, and say something came up when you do have to leave. They are not really within their right to expect a guarantee that you will continue beyond this contract end date. They also have no legal right to terminate your employment or otherwise deny any due compensation because you are not going to continue working for them the next year.

As I said, if they wanted assurances that people will stay on full time, they have to have them on full time contracts. And in any case it is not for quite a while that your current contract ends, so there is no legitimate reason for them to be asking this now.

Therefore, as they are being dishonest, you have no obligation to disclose anything to them that may not be in your best interest.

All of this reminds me why I will never teach again. I previously had a one year contract, work permit and visa. I have no desire to ever work in that type of position again, as much as I loved the children.


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[gerryBScot]

People break contracts every day of the week. It doesn't follow they are bad for doing so. Circumstances change. Progressive employers recognise this and are usually happy to enter into a negotiation process to facilitate early release from contractual obligations. Who really wants to hold some one to a contract if they don't want to perform that contract? If the OP wants to do the right thing then s/he could attempt to negotiate  their way out and could offer, for instance, to pay a part of the other side's costs. However if this route is taken, and agreement is reached the OP, as part of the deal, should formally cancel the WP and visa and obtain a release letter and testimonial from the employer by which they formally discharge the OP from all contractual obligations. I advise this as ....errrr, circumstances change, don't they, and the OP may find he wants to stay in Thailand and work somewhere else. If s/he has broken contract,  getting another WP might be potentially problematic.

 

But this is pie-in-the-sky stuff - typical school administrators and the wider society don't do negotiation, as we know. But this is the route to go down if the OP wants to do the right thing.

[Soneva]

I think the OP is doing the “right thing” by responding to the school’s inappropriate question by saying that he/she intends to continue.

When the time comes, just say something came up and leave.

In a perfect world no one would have to tell a white lie. But, guess what? It’s basically the accepted norm anywhere in the world to not disclose this kind of information to an employer.

Most Thai schools will try to screw people over and avoid paying if they can get away with it. Therefore the logical conclusion is to play that game and the just leave whenever the time comes.

The school will quickly find a replacement and get on with life. My advice is to do what is in one’s best interest, take good care of the students for the remaining time you are there, and then just leave when it suits you.

When one considers how often schools tend to take advantage of both thai and foreign teachers, I think moral relativity is on the side of a teacher looking out for his/her own best interest. Schools all too often have monetary profit, and not the best interest of either students or teachers in mind.


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[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, thedan663 said:

It's a sad state of affairs when the decision to lie or tell the truth depends on the school's honesty. Will try to ask other teachers at the school, though only one has been there for awhile.

Quite a phrase that, talk about diversion.

[ozmeldo]

I'm not certain where the school is located. If in Bangkok, initials in English might be SW or PP (across river) then very shonky. Can't retain foreign teachers. SW begged me numerous times to work for them but the workload and demands were totally ridiculous from the outset. They constantly hire throughout the year, perpetually on Craigslist. SW no longer even post their name despite it being a top public.

 

 

Decision is yours, let's make it and move on

[ozmeldo]

For the record, I've worked at four schools and never been cheated out if a satang - two public's direct, two agencies. Agencies paid me exactly what was owed by their interpretation of the letter of the contract. Still imo this fell short one agency did not pay me an attendance bonus monthly. The other just cheaped me out whenever possible. Both were shitty with holidays despite the school covering the pay under their contract. Agencies, never, ever again.

 

I do realize some extremely sketchy agencies exist and part of their revenue stream is to rip off foreign teachers. Very poorly Thai public's as well. Being at a good school is no guarantee. I know three good schools that treat foreign teachers poorly. I can see this outside BKK and the lesser schools on outskirts of BKK.

 

Nevertheless, I did want the record to show that public schools do pay and are usually a relatively honest work experience.

Edited January 21, 2018 by ozmeldo

[ozmeldo]

Apologies for third post. Do they want you to return next year part time or hourly and want you to sign as early as now? Lol. That does smell suspect. Of course, for them, why not? For you, if you're a decent teacher, if you can return home and be back by mid April there are lots of 40k+ jobs in central BKK.

 

I've seen a number of these ads in last few years. B350-550 per contact hour. That's average money - director pockets your holiday pay and they save March 1 to May 15. I'm sure they're ballsy enough to ask for all sorts of freebies as well as if you were contracted. These so doubtfully would come with WP and visa. No visa... expensive and dangerous.

 

Time for lesson planning totally unpaid. It's a mercenary position. No love or commitment from school.

Edited January 21, 2018 by ozmeldo