SMART Visa Detailed

[lkv]

8 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Criminal record has not be done in the home country if your residency is in Thailand. In that case a police record is demanded. However do not think that the approval is such easy. It needs exordinary achievements in certain segments to get the approval. Have a look in the application documents.


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SMART Visa  “S”  (Startup)  

1.  Completed  APPLICATION FORM  FOR  QUALIFICATION ENDORSEMENT FOR SMART VISA  “S”  

2.  Copy  of  currently  valid passport  

3.  Criminal record certificate,  issued by  the  country  of  which  the  applicant is a  national and a permanent  resident  (not  more  than  3  months  old)

4.  Medical  certificate  issued  from  the  country  of  which  the  applicant  is  a  national  or  a permanent  resident or  where  the  application is  submitted,  showing no prohibited diseases (Leprosy,  Tuberculosis,  drug  addiction,  Elephantiasis,  third  phase  of  Syphilis)  as indicated in  the  Ministerial  Regulation  No.  14  B.E.  2535

5.  Police  clearance  certificate  from  the  country  of  which  the  applicant  is  a  national  or  from  the Royal Thai Police  in  case  that  the  applicant stays in Thailand

6.  Copy  of  certificate  of  incorporation,  memorandum  of  association and company registration certificate  in Thailand  (not more  than 3 months old) (if  any)

7.  Financial  evidence  showing  fixed  saving  in  Thailand  or  in  a  foreign country  with balance  of  not less than 600,000 Baht per  person or  equivalent and the  remaining maturity  term  of  at least 1 year *In  the  case  of  being accompanied by  spouses and children,  an additional amount of fixed saving of   at least 180,000 Baht per  person or  equivalence  is required.

 8.   Copy  of  health insurance  policy  covering entire  course  of  stay  in Thailand

9.  Company’s  annual report,  brochures and catalogues  (if  any)

10.  Power  of  attorney  if  the  application is submitted by  a  representative 

Edited February 2, 2018 by lkv

[wobalt]

I was yesterday in the application center and this was clearified. See also point 5 ..in case the applicant stays in Thailand. I live since more than 10 years in Thailand and I am not a resident in my home country since then.


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[lkv]

3 minutes ago, wobalt said:

I was yesterday in the application center and this was clearified. See also point 5 ..in case the applicant stays in Thailand. I live since more than 10 years in Thailand and I am not a resident in my home country since then.


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Good info thanks.

 

Stays in Thailand means "on an extension of stay" or it means "happens to be in Thailand on a tourist visa when he applies"?

Edited February 2, 2018 by lkv

[jackdd]

10 minutes ago, lkv said:

3.  Criminal record certificate,  issued by  the  country  of  which  the  applicant is a  national and a permanent  resident  (not  more  than  3  months  old)

Obviously something was lost in translation here, you can't expect the boi to translate something properly to english

Let's say you are a national from country abc and are a permanent resident in xyz, then from who are you supposed to get the criminal record? Need to have a look at the Thai original

 

 

16 minutes ago, wobalt said:

However do not think that the approval is such easy. It needs exordinary achievements in certain segments to get the approval. Have a look in the application documents.

I didn't see anything like this in any of the documents, could you provide a link?

And we are talking about founding a new company, which achievements could it have?

Edited February 2, 2018 by jackdd

[lkv]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

And we are talking about founding a new company, which achievements could it have?

They may want to have a closer look at the founder's track record , I have a feeling.

 

Or perhaps not.

Edited February 2, 2018 by lkv

[JackThompson]

45 minutes ago, samran said:

The Smart S visa needs 600,000 in the bank at all times. However there is no income threshold needed to maintain the visa.

 

I went to a couple of the consultations in the past 12 months on this. While they aren't wanting, to use their words 'anyone with a laptop', they have been presented with case study after case study of the young foreigners here 'doing their thing'....and are interested. Otherwise the 'S' category would have never been on the agenda.

I see that one - but "set up a company" doesn't work, if it is 2M Baht of capital, which few digital-startups need.  Might as well just pay an agent to set up a company, get work permit, do 90-day reporting for you, etc.  Again, I don't see any significant advantage of this "smart visa" over what is already in place.

 

If they are worried about riff-raff poor kids with laptops selling on Amazon, then a prove-able income flowing into Thailand - but a reasonable amount for Thailand (not Switzerland) - would close that loophole.  Maybe add in a degree in the field, to appease the "smart" label aspect.

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If they are worried about riff-raff poor kids with laptops selling on Amazon, then a prove-able income flowing into Thailand - but a reasonable amount for Thailand (not Switzerland) - would close that loophole.  Maybe add in a degree in the field, to appease the "smart" label aspect.

They could also simply remove the 50 year minimum from the retirement visa, then i put 800k on a bank account and would be good, but somehow it seems that they don't want this.

Edited February 2, 2018 by jackdd

[JackThompson]

10 minutes ago, jackdd said:

They could also simply remove the 50 year minimum from the retirement visa, then i put 800k on a bank account and would be good, but somehow it seems that they don't want this.

Well, they designed that system to work with their "agent-kickback" scheme - so they know many of those with "retirement extensions" don't really have 800K.  It seems they are OK with poorer people faking the financials, as long as they are over 50 and willing to line their pockets for the privilege.

 

I was suggesting a verified-income scheme for younger folks.  But with that scheme, there would be no agent-kickbacks, and no "giant-fee envelope" to the Elite guys, so ... will never happen, I suppose.

When I look at this list, I see options that look like they started out well, but them someone with "something to lose" took a pen and wrote in values to torpedo it's usefulness - to protect the current schemes that benefit them.

Edited February 2, 2018 by JackThompson

[wobalt]

I didn't see anything like this in any of the documents, could you provide a link?
And we are talking about founding a new company, which achievements could it have?

Look for example in the 9 pages application form for Qualification endorsement SV-T-01-.... . I received that at BOI. Unfortunately the online registration is not working yet.


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[impulse]

Makes the Elite visa look even more attractive from a strict cost and effort standpoint.  Not to mention the probability of a successful application.

 

As long as you can keep any income derived from your activities in Thailand off the radar (that is, not get caught working), I can't see any advantages here.  Which really defeats the stated purpose of these programs.  But probably not the ulterior motives.

 

BTW, I hope I'm proven wrong when people start applying and getting approved.  But that's not the way I'd bet...

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by impulse

[samran]

22 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I see that one - but "set up a company" doesn't work, if it is 2M Baht of capital, which few digital-startups need.  Might as well just pay an agent to set up a company, get work permit, do 90-day reporting for you, etc.  Again, I don't see any significant advantage of this "smart visa" over what is already in place.

 

If they are worried about riff-raff poor kids with laptops selling on Amazon, then a prove-able income flowing into Thailand - but a reasonable amount for Thailand (not Switzerland) - would close that loophole.  Maybe add in a degree in the field, to appease the "smart" label aspect.

You don't need 2MB paid up capital though, that is only if you are getting a traditional work permit.

 

Registered capital can be anything without the work permit requirement, but you can chuck a bit in which is then just working capital.

[jackdd]

Here is the application form for the smart s: https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/document/SMART_S.pdf

Looks like many things, but actually it's nothing that would worry me, when i founded a company in Estonia they asked nearly the same questions, maybe they copied it from them

I don't know why some people think it will be difficult to get approved, why should it be like this?

I think the people who made this program want to show that it's a success, so they can give them self a pat on the shoulder. So i could imagine it's quite easy to get it.

Not so nice is of course that you have to make the investment for founding the company first, and then it could happen that you get denied.

[Mattd]

4 hours ago, lkv said:

Does a director have to get paid a salary or can it be 1 baht as jackdd stated earlier? 

You could appoint a non-executive director, who would then not actually be employed by the company and could, only if they choose, get compensated for attending board meetings etc.

Not sure, in the context of the smart visa, if they would allow this, it is very common in industry though and it is allowed within the normal framework of work permits etc.

I suspect in this instant that they would expect a director to be part of the executive team, hence the no need for a work permit perk!

[lkv]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

You could appoint a non-executive director, who would then not actually be employed by the company and could, only if they choose, get compensated for attending board meetings etc.

Not sure, in the context of the smart visa, if they would allow this, it is very common in industry though and it is allowed within the normal framework of work permits etc.

I suspect in this instant that they would expect a director to be part of the executive team, hence the no need for a work permit perk!

How about executive directors receiving remuneration in shares? ?

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, lkv said:

How about executive directors receiving remuneration in shares? ?

Actually, that would be allowed probably as a part of the compensation package, or even some other benefit in kind, housing, car etc. etc. very common practice here.

[LivinLOS]

On 2/2/2018 at 2:43 PM, jackdd said:

They could also simply remove the 50 year minimum from the retirement visa, then i put 800k on a bank account and would be good, but somehow it seems that they don't want this.

Agreed but its the work permit exemption which is appealing also. 

 

The whole 'working online isnt working' thing is so blatantly incorrect its not worth bothering to argue, but the situation of a part time visiting CEO, who has companies outside of Thailand, but has a residence here and large income. Would be great to have a legal solution to allow legal work and long term stay in one package. 

[jackdd]

26 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Agreed but its the work permit exemption which is appealing also. 

 

The whole 'working online isnt working' thing is so blatantly incorrect

Not really incorrect. I mean the whole purpose of work permits is to protect the locals, so that the foreigners don't take their local job. If somebody is working online and making his money abroad he is not taking away a local job from a Thai in Thailand, so they tolerate this.

 

A problem with the "online working" people is of course to prove the income, and that you really generated the income abroad, that's way more difficult to prove than a steady pension every month and way easier to cheat on, which is why they probably have so much trouble to make an "easy" visa.

They could save everybody all this hassle if they just sold a reasonable visa, for a reasonable price. For example this new "smart" Visa for maybe 40k THB per year.

 

[wobalt]

This visa has nothing to do with an ordinary visa for online working. Your business model must be based on exordinary knowledge which you would transfer to the Thais.


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[LivinLOS]

3 minutes ago, wobalt said:

This visa has nothing to do with an ordinary visa for online working. Your business model must be based on exordinary knowledge which you would transfer to the Thais.


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I thought that was only the versions with the lower income threshold.. 

 

Initially it seemed that high earning execs / CEOs could use this with the 200k per month minimum income category. 

[wobalt]

Of cause this would work. I worked about 10 y for the agencies which would approve you technically.


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[jackdd]

30 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Initially it seemed that high earning execs / CEOs could use this with the 200k per month minimum income category. 

They can, but only if they work in Thailand, not if they just live here. So before these people had a non B plus work permit, now a small number of them can get this new smart visa, doesn't change too much for them.

[SicTransit]

This visa has nothing to do with an ordinary visa for online working. Your business model must be based on exordinary knowledge which you would transfer to the Thais.


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Plenty of people and business entities in Thailand could benefit from some *ordinary* knowledge transfer still.

[wobalt]

Sure, but it is not in focus of this program


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[samran]

Basically there are number of agencies that will be involved behind then scenes. They are the NSTDA, NRTC, TISTR and DEPA.

 

depending on the visa you apply for,  you either need to have your skills or investment vetted by them, or for the enterpaneurial visa, be working on a project which is either a designated accelerator or incubator programme.

 

The million dollar questions are:

 

- what are then key skills that are wanted

- or/ what are the designated accelerator and incubator programs, can you get a gig helping them, and if not, how to establish your idea as an established and vetted incubator or accelerator project 

 

there isn’t much guidance out there on how to register yourself as an incubator or accelerator and until that become clear it might be that certain categories of the visa are largely stillborn... 

 

 

[lkv]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

They could save everybody all this hassle if they just sold a reasonable visa, for a reasonable price. For example this new "smart" Visa for maybe 40k THB per year.

 

They are selling visas. It's 50K per year. The only issue is that they want 20 years in advance. It's called Thai Elite Superiority Extension.

 

There are already agents that can apparently assist with this smart visa. What "assist" means exactly needs to be determined and at what cost.

Edited February 9, 2018 by lkv

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, lkv said:

They are selling visas. It's 50K per year. The only issue is that they want 20 years in advance. It's called Thai Elite Superiority Extension.

Yes, that's the problem with Thai Elite, who knows what's in 2 or 3 years... and impossible to tell what's in 20 years

[wobalt]

Basically there are number of agencies that will be involved behind then scenes. They are the NSTDA, NRTC, TISTR and DEPA.
 
depending on the visa you apply for,  you either need to have your skills or investment vetted by them, or for the enterpaneurial visa, be working on a project which is either a designated accelerator or incubator programme.
 
The million dollar questions are:
 
- what are then key skills that are wanted
- or/ what are the designated accelerator and incubator programs, can you get a gig helping them, and if not, how to establish your idea as an established and vetted incubator or accelerator project 
 
there isn’t much guidance out there on how to register yourself as an incubator or accelerator and until that become clear it might be that certain categories of the visa are largely stillborn... 
 
 

Simply go to the OSOS center and ask them.


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[elviajero]

 

On 09/02/2018 at 7:13 AM, jackdd said:

... I mean the whole purpose of work permits is to protect the locals, so that the foreigners don't take their local job.

No it’s not. Virtually every local job being done by a foreigner could be done by a Thai. A specific list of jobs that are protected is published to protect Thai labour/jobs.

 

The Alien Employment act was enacted to control alien employment. That includes anyone (online work or otherwise) making a living, without permission. 

 

Work permits are issued when giving a foreigner permission to do a specific job.

 

On 09/02/2018 at 7:13 AM, jackdd said:

If somebody is working online and making his money abroad he is not taking away a local job from a Thai in Thailand, so they tolerate this.

Just because they aren’t “taking away a local job” is irrelevant. If you are physically in Thailand while carrying out ‘online work’ you need permission. Without it you are breaking the law.

 

Thailand could quickly and easily make it legal for ‘online work’, but they haven’t. Currently Thailand only wants certain groups of visitors to stay long term and ‘online workers’ isn’t one. 

 

They don’t actively hunt people down or stop those working online at businesses based abroad because it’s not practical to do, and because they have to let ‘tourists’ keep up with ‘work’ while on holiday, which means all (even long term) tourists are left alone.

 

So, for now, anyone doing ‘online work’ is tolerated because enforcement is almost impossible, not because it’s wanted, not taking away a Thai job, or the income is earned abroad.

[wasabi]

On 2/9/2018 at 1:09 AM, jackdd said:

Yes, that's the problem with Thai Elite, who knows what's in 2 or 3 years... and impossible to tell what's in 20 years

The Thailand Elite Visa is also available in 5 year increments. I'd hoped the Smart Visa would be more straightforward for freelancers, but it seems that you must be associated with a company as well. The best option I've found is the IGLU relocation service, but this is essentially $9000 a year. I believe that comes out higher than the Elite Visa but it only needs to be done in yearly increments, can also sponsor family members, and gives you access to the Thai Social Medical care system.

[djlest]

my opinion: stay far away from the Thai medical system and stick with the elite and get private health insurance instead.
As for the person saying elite visa costs 50k a year i believe its actually 100k a year, unless something has changed?
Its a shame Thailand desperately tries to change for the better but everytime they seem to shoot themselves in the foot by trying to recreate the wheel or by trying to be clever. far to much beurocracy these days. The worst attempt ive seen yet is the new changes the gov has made to imports, taxes, license per invoice, customs. many business now are collapsing due to the ever increasing pedantic rules and regulations. this is no different in my book...