Chinese tourists flocking to Pattaya for transgender shows, Thai food, property – but not for sex

[newnative]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

I agree.  It still seems to be 90%+ tour groups and some individuals.

There is no rule that they cannot venture out alone from their tour groups, which I think is sometimes the case.

Surely you are seeing plenty of independent Chinese travelers at The Base.  There always seems to be lots of them walking in and out or standing out at the entrance waiting to be booked in when I drive by.  There were always lots of them, too, at Centric Sea when I lived there--and at Unixx, as well.  

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, newnative said:

Surely you are seeing plenty of independent Chinese travelers at The Base.  There always seems to be lots of them walking in and out or standing out at the entrance waiting to be booked in when I drive by.  There were always lots of them, too, at Centric Sea when I lived there--and at Unixx, as well.  

Yes many.

But I think they are a small amount of the total numbers.

It does seem the independent ones are younger.  The tours have more of the fat potato head ladies with Beatles haircuts accompanied by unhappy looking non smiling males.

[newnative]

6 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes many.

But I think they are a small amount of the total numbers.

It does seem the independent ones are younger.  The tours have more of the fat potato head ladies with Beatles haircuts accompanied by unhappy looking non smiling males.

     Yes, I agree that they are mostly younger.  My take away from this discussion is this.   When Pattaya is the subject on Thai Visa, posters love to state that the only reason anyone would ever visit Pattaya would be for the sex.  Absolutely nothing else on offer.  Obviously, many Chinese tourists, and the growing numbers of tourists of all kinds, find this not to be true.  

[LaoPo]

11 hours ago, Henrik Andersen said:

Wrong pollution come more and more  to Thailand because Chinese sit in busses if 10 millions of Chinese sit in busses and mostly old bus with no filter it will ofcores increase the pollution 

You clearly haven't been in China lately.

Most of the buses are new and in many cities buses are electric already.

 

Motorbikes and scooters in China?...ALL of them are electric, except rural areas but in cities you don't hear the sound of gasoline powered bikes...just battery powered.

What about Thailand?

Edited February 12, 2018 by LaoPo

[bkk6060]

9 hours ago, balo said:

Try North Pattaya / Naklua where all the buses are lining up . I agree there are individual Chinese travellers here as well , but I have not spotted them yet , I only see them in big groups.....

 

Btw , regarding Tiffany Show, big groups of Chinese are also lining up there, I think they buy the tickets from the travel agent in China and I have seen promotions up to 50% for tour groups. 

Hey, I think you gave me my 1000 like or reaction or?

Anyway, thanks, what a mile stone I can hear the clapping and cheers all the way to my apartment.

Thanks for all the love!

Do I get a prize??

:):)

Edited February 12, 2018 by bkk6060

[LaoPo]

7 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

I agree.  It still seems to be 90%+ tour groups and some individuals.

There is no rule that they cannot venture out alone from their tour groups, which I think is sometimes the case.

Nobody can tell the % coming in groups for certain but tour groups are still higher of course, but even if it were 90% group tourists and 10% individual, we're talking high numbers of individual travelers....

 

some 1 million individual tourists to Thailand if total Chinese tourism in 2017/2018 would come to 10 million in total.

 

As an example: some 6 million Chinese will travel abroad with the Chinese New Year (happening now) and the highest percentage goes to Thailand; Japan is 2 and Singapore 3

 

 

[LaoPo]

6 hours ago, newnative said:

Surely you are seeing plenty of independent Chinese travelers at The Base.  There always seems to be lots of them walking in and out or standing out at the entrance waiting to be booked in when I drive by.  There were always lots of them, too, at Centric Sea when I lived there--and at Unixx, as well.  

Correct; quite a few Chinese have bought condos in The Base and the prices are stiff in comparison with older buildings.

If I'm correct there are 3 or 4 types of condos there: 31M2 studio (which is small...) up to 51M2 1 to 2 bedroom apartments which is also small with 2 bedrooms.

 

Chinese want to stay in the center of Pattaya and even Jomtien is too far for them, especially if they're staying just a few days in Pattaya.

I know of Chinese comments on AirBNB, liking the View Talay 2 building for instance but they consider the distance too far with the heavy traffic to Pattaya up and down, which cost them a lot of time.

They're also not the typical beach- or bar-tourists.

[newnative]

33 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

Correct; quite a few Chinese have bought condos in The Base and the prices are stiff in comparison with older buildings.

If I'm correct there are 3 or 4 types of condos there: 31M2 studio (which is small...) up to 51M2 1 to 2 bedroom apartments which is also small with 2 bedrooms.

 

Chinese want to stay in the center of Pattaya and even Jomtien is too far for them, especially if they're staying just a few days in Pattaya.

I know of Chinese comments on AirBNB, liking the View Talay 2 building for instance but they consider the distance too far with the heavy traffic to Pattaya up and down, which cost them a lot of time.

They're also not the typical beach- or bar-tourists.

No studios at The Base that I know of.  1 bedrooms are 29 and 35sqm.  2 bedrooms range from 50sqm to 70sqm.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, newnative said:

No studios at The Base that I know of.  1 bedrooms are 29 and 35sqm.  2 bedrooms range from 50sqm to 70sqm.

Correct.

[bkk6060]

I have toned down my displeasure of them at The Base.  Found myself getting upset and had a few " ugly American" episodes.

They are just people coming here to enjoy a holiday.  So, I do small things like my laundry early or wait for another elevator when 10 of them want to crowd in.  I pretty much stopped going to the pool in building A as it is overrun.  But the other pool is just fine.  I also wear ear phones and listen to music while walking thru the lobby.

Just a few adjustments to keep a positive outlook on things.

Once in my room I am happy there have never been any issues.

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by bkk6060

[newnative]

28 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I have toned down my displeasure of them at The Base.  Found myself getting upset and had a few " ugly American" episodes.

They are just people coming here to enjoy a holiday.  So, I do small things like my laundry early or wait for another elevator when 10 of them want to crowd in.  I pretty much stopped going to the pool in building A as it is overrun.  But the other pool is just fine.  I also wear ear phones and listen to music while walking thru the lobby.

Just a few adjustments to keep a positive outlook on things.

Once in my room I am happy there have never been any issues.

 

      I think you've got the right attitude.  If you can make those few adjustments The Base is still a beautiful condo complex in an unbeatable location.  I remember the first day it opened and my partner and I were there to get our condo keys and do the walk-through.  We were stunned at everything--especially the beautiful, huge lounge lobbies--and not one of them but two!  The sky lounges, the 2 pools, the sky garden, the gym, the beautiful, clever elevator lobbies, and the outdoor spaces--outstanding design everywhere.  Easy to see why it is popular.

[shadowmaster1971]

On 2/10/2018 at 8:43 PM, shy coconut said:

Much of the property price boom in London due to the Chinese.

They do seem to like parking their hard earned cash overseas in property.

True - but it is not necessarily a property play but rather to get the money out of china.

Parking money in UK or Australia (if it is grey) it is hard for Chinese Authorities to seize in those jurisdictions (particular on an individual level). Chinese having been washing cash in Australia through property for a while now.  Google it and you will find many media articles on this.  Im sure the UK may have been experiencing similar.

 

On the Commercial side of Real Estate thats another story.  As an example Wanda Group just sold a prime residential site in Sydney CBD (no doubt under a subtle suggestion from the Chinese Government)  to other Chinese nationals in Sydney , the media has taken interest in the deal.  Will the money leave OZ not so sure.  And in a twist the ink is not dry on the sale of contract for this site there has been a major fire at the site - mmmmmm.

 

The Chinese buying property in Thailand.  When you have your cash (grey cash) in China that can easily and arbitrarily be seized through corrupt activities or under dubious rule of law rulings - why would you go from jurisdiction to another with potentially the same issue.

 

I know Hong Kongers  like buying property in Thailand particularly in BKK not sure about the numbers for other cities.

As for PRCers yes sure buying property in TH but I don't think at the levels purported.

Edited February 15, 2018 by shadowmaster1971

[whitemouse]

On 10/02/2018 at 12:52 PM, Jingthing said:

Very good point.

 

Both types exist in large numbers but the Chinese independent travelers have greatly increased every year.

 

Exactly, more and more Chinese fly independently, already few years ago you'd run into young Chinese couples in Paris and in London. And this is just the beginning. 

In60s and 70s Japanese travelled in large groups only, just like most Chinese are today, but is changing rapidly. There will always be groups, but younger,  people with higher income travel now by themselves. Just going by dating apps here in Pattaya more and more Chinese use English in order to make an approach. 

In 5 years we won't even recognize Pattaya, it will be Chinatown.

[whitemouse]

On 10/02/2018 at 2:01 PM, Jingthing said:

to brucec64

 

Dude, nobody said there aren't plenty of Chinese on tours. The point is, and it is totally TRUE, is that more and more Chinese are arriving here independently. And, yes, many of them spend lots and lots of money. 

 

Next ... 

 

But he saw a bus, took a photo, and posted a photo of a bus on TVF in order to prove people still use buses. 

I once saw Chinese man on a bicycle, should have taken a photo, you'd all be blown away! 

[LaoPo]

1 hour ago, whitemouse said:

 

But he saw a bus, took a photo, and posted a photo of a bus on TVF in order to prove people still use buses. 

I once saw Chinese man on a bicycle, should have taken a photo, you'd all be blown away! 

:-) how do you know he was Chinese? Could have been any nationality, including Thai/Chinese.

 

I'm coming for some 40 years in Asia and China and I'm still not able to determine for 100%  if some people are Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Hong Kong Chinese or Singapore Chinese and anybody who says he can is either a magician or has his own  crystal ball :-) 

Edited February 15, 2018 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

On 15-2-2018 at 9:18 PM, shadowmaster1971 said:

True - but it is not necessarily a property play but rather to get the money out of china.

Parking money in UK or Australia (if it is grey) it is hard for Chinese Authorities to seize in those jurisdictions (particular on an individual level). Chinese having been washing cash in Australia through property for a while now.  Google it and you will find many media articles on this.  Im sure the UK may have been experiencing similar.

 

On the Commercial side of Real Estate thats another story.  As an example Wanda Group just sold a prime residential site in Sydney CBD (no doubt under a subtle suggestion from the Chinese Government)  to other Chinese nationals in Sydney , the media has taken interest in the deal.  Will the money leave OZ not so sure.  And in a twist the ink is not dry on the sale of contract for this site there has been a major fire at the site - mmmmmm.

 

The Chinese buying property in Thailand.  When you have your cash (grey cash) in China that can easily and arbitrarily be seized through corrupt activities or under dubious rule of law rulings - why would you go from jurisdiction to another with potentially the same issue.

 

I know Hong Kongers  like buying property in Thailand particularly in BKK not sure about the numbers for other cities.

As for PRCers yes sure buying property in TH but I don't think at the levels purported.

Thai properties high on Chinese tourists’ Lunar New Year holiday shopping lists

 

Thailand is now the third most popular property market for Chinese, helped by low prices and high rental yields

 

FROM: http://www.scmp.com/property/international/article/2133702/thai-properties-high-chinese-tourists-lunar-new-year-holiday

 

 

 

 

[shadowmaster1971]

On 2/18/2018 at 3:16 PM, LaoPo said:

Thai properties high on Chinese tourists’ Lunar New Year holiday shopping lists

 

Thailand is now the third most popular property market for Chinese, helped by low prices and high rental yields

 

FROM: http://www.scmp.com/property/international/article/2133702/thai-properties-high-chinese-tourists-lunar-new-year-holiday

 

 

 

 

For sure prices are cheap and rental yields are very good.  Just wondering how they get the money out of China  if there is a limit of US$50k per person per year - so if they aren't doing a Tor Tor 3 - then how.  I would be interested to know from the SCMP article twhat they are defining as "Central Bangkok" in which the nurse bought as US$220k apartment.  The reference to the comparison on prime location to Shanghai for 5m RMB certainly wouldn't be within 10kms of the Bund or Najing Lu West!

 

Yet here is an article dated 20 Feb 2018 about the volume of unsold apartments in TH on the rise, sort of counter acts what SCMP is saying.

 

http://www.property-report.com/detail/-/blogs/unsold-condos-on-the-rise-in-thaila-4

[LaoPo]

9 minutes ago, shadowmaster1971 said:

For sure prices are cheap and rental yields are very good.  Just wondering how they get the money out of China  if there is a limit of US$50k per person per year - so if they aren't doing a Tor Tor 3 - then how.  I would be interested to know from the SCMP article twhat they are defining as "Central Bangkok" in which the nurse bought as US$220k apartment.  The reference to the comparison on prime location to Shanghai for 5m RMB certainly wouldn't be within 10kms of the Bund or Najing Lu West!

 

Yet here is an article dated 20 Feb 2018 about the volume of unsold apartments in TH on the rise, sort of counter acts what SCMP is saying.

 

http://www.property-report.com/detail/-/blogs/unsold-condos-on-the-rise-in-thaila-4

 

There are certain underground ways to bring cash money out of the country and there are specialized "companies" in and around Shenzhen and Zhuhai/Macau and HK who'll do that for you at a fee.

 

Next to that there seem to be ways to buy condos in Thailand IN China from Thai/Chinese companies where the property is transferred to the "foreigner" later.

They're not much interested to buy and register in a Thai Company. 

 

Don't ask me the details since it's mysterious to me also but I DO know several Chinese who own more than 1 condo around Pataya/Pratumnak/Jomtien. One Beijing lady owns some 10 condos.

 

But Chinese only buy new condos and are not interested in "old" 2nd hand condos.

Next to that, most Chinese want condos in the Pattaya area since they rent out to Chinese tourists who mostly just stay for a few days and find Jomtien already too far which cost them too much time to travel up and down to the Pattaya area.

 

It's true that there are many unsold condos, especially also in the BKK area but that's already since decades fact of life in Thailand.

Many wealthy Thai families and companies do not seem to be bothered by their empty assets...but they're Asian and we're not.

 

 

 

[newnative]

7 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

There are certain underground ways to bring cash money out of the country and there are specialized "companies" in and around Shenzhen and Zhuhai/Macau and HK who'll do that for you at a fee.

 

Next to that there seem to be ways to buy condos in Thailand IN China from Thai/Chinese companies where the property is transferred to the "foreigner" later.

They're not much interested to buy and register in a Thai Company. 

 

Don't ask me the details since it's mysterious to me also but I DO know several Chinese who own more than 1 condo around Pataya/Pratumnak/Jomtien. One Beijing lady owns some 10 condos.

 

But Chinese only buy new condos and are not interested in "old" 2nd hand condos.

Next to that, most Chinese want condos in the Pattaya area since they rent out to Chinese tourists who mostly just stay for a few days and find Jomtien already too far which cost them too much time to travel up and down to the Pattaya area.

 

It's true that there are many unsold condos, especially also in the BKK area but that's already since decades fact of life in Thailand.

Many wealthy Thai families and companies do not seem to be bothered by their empty assets...but they're Asian and we're not.

 

 

 

     Mostly agree with all you said with the exception that I have sold 3 'second-hand' condos to Chinese.  But, all 3 were in excellent locations in Pattaya with great seaviews and the projects were only a couple years old.  I think location and view will win out over a condo being 'second-hand'.  Some Chinese are coming around to the concept of company ownership, I think, once it is explained to them.

[The manic]

On 10/02/2018 at 3:12 PM, Justgrazing said:

Is the L B on the left practicing his pick pocketing technique on the dude in the striped top .?

No. You are confused and prejudiced . In my Local supermarket 50 % of the check out staff are LB, as are some teachers and airline staff. In Thailand Transgenders are in many walks of life. You assume they are all criminals perhaps because the ones you consort with are prostitutes and thieves.  The majority are not.

Edited February 21, 2018 by The manic

[shadowmaster1971]

13 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

There are certain underground ways to bring cash money out of the country and there are specialized "companies" in and around Shenzhen and Zhuhai/Macau and HK who'll do that for you at a fee.

 

Next to that there seem to be ways to buy condos in Thailand IN China from Thai/Chinese companies where the property is transferred to the "foreigner" later.

They're not much interested to buy and register in a Thai Company. 

 

Don't ask me the details since it's mysterious to me also but I DO know several Chinese who own more than 1 condo around Pataya/Pratumnak/Jomtien. One Beijing lady owns some 10 condos.

 

But Chinese only buy new condos and are not interested in "old" 2nd hand condos.

Next to that, most Chinese want condos in the Pattaya area since they rent out to Chinese tourists who mostly just stay for a few days and find Jomtien already too far which cost them too much time to travel up and down to the Pattaya area.

 

It's true that there are many unsold condos, especially also in the BKK area but that's already since decades fact of life in Thailand.

Many wealthy Thai families and companies do not seem to be bothered by their empty assets...but they're Asian and we're not.

 

 

 

Agree with what you say - there will always be some sort of demand from China.  Usual practise is the underground banks but of late lots of cash being carried over at LoWu.  Not sure if the bank to bank transfer still happens much, ie depositing money in each respective bank accounts in each respective location.  Still i think there maybe just a little bit over hype about the demand from China.

[anon789561]

they'll buy them off plan and they're guaranteed to go up in price so don't even bother renting them out alot of the time. i went over to wireless road a couple of months ago to buy a place in a new development they have there. i turned up on the second day of presales and all the best units were already sold and most were up for resale

[DrTuner]

On 2/10/2018 at 12:32 PM, JSixpack said:

Note the article makes a point that more patrons are FITs (independent travelers) than members of tour groups. Our posters tend to love spreading the myth that all the Chinese tourists are only members of tour groups and even zero dollar tours, which were ended more than a year ago. And the article offers more evidence to counter the forum dogma that Chinese don't spend any money.

Which begs the question are hongkongers and taiwanese really chinese. The fits I've met are invariably from those two places.

[JSixpack]

2 hours ago, DrTuner said:

Which begs the question are hongkongers and taiwanese really chinese. The fits I've met are invariably from those two places.

 

They would be more likely to be present at your sorts of venues. But that's an irrelevant distinction for most TVF Posters, you see, who don't admit FITs exist anyway and think zero dollar tours are still a thing. The Thais quoted in the article don't make such a distinction either, though they might have. No reason to think that numbers of HKs and TWs would have changed significantly so the strong likelihood is mainland Chinese were being referenced specifically owing to the change.

 

Anyway, go read the article and study the graphs: https://skift.com/2017/08/25/5-charts-showing-the-rise-of-independent-chinese-travelers/ Why would tourists to Pattaya would form the exception?

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by JSixpack

[Songkran18]

For what it's worth, I'm planning my first foray into Pattaya. While checking accommodation options on Airbnb, about 40% of units listed are written in Chinese. I'm sure there is a combination of  Chinese ownership and targeting in the mix, which favors the logic of the uptick in FIT's mentioned. 

 

Have 4 of 26 days planned for Pattaya. If the plenitude of miserable blokes here are any indication of this town, might end up scratching Pattaya off to spend more time hiking in the north. 

[Sir Dude]

Be ready to be immersed in crazy amounts of Indians and Chinese then if you go...lol....enjoy.

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by Sir Dude

[newnative]

46 minutes ago, Songkran18 said:

For what it's worth, I'm planning my first foray into Pattaya. While checking accommodation options on Airbnb, about 40% of units listed are written in Chinese. I'm sure there is a combination of  Chinese ownership and targeting in the mix, which favors the logic of the uptick in FIT's mentioned. 

 

Have 4 of 26 days planned for Pattaya. If the plenitude of miserable blokes here are any indication of this town, might end up scratching Pattaya off to spend more time hiking in the north. 

Keep in mind that the plenitude of Pattaya blokes--miserable or otherwise--on Thai Visa is quite, quite small relative to the millions of tourists who make their way here.  You should find plenty to do on your 4 day visit.  

[InMyShadow]

55 minutes ago, Songkran18 said:

For what it's worth, I'm planning my first foray into Pattaya. While checking accommodation options on Airbnb, about 40% of units listed are written in Chinese. I'm sure there is a combination of  Chinese ownership and targeting in the mix, which favors the logic of the uptick in FIT's mentioned. 

 

Have 4 of 26 days planned for Pattaya. If the plenitude of miserable blokes here are any indication of this town, might end up scratching Pattaya off to spend more time hiking in the north. 

If you stay away from the 50 baht beer happy hour bars you will avoid 99% of posters who live there. Thailand in general attracts the lowest class of expat so misery is everywhere not just in pattaya.

[Songkran18]

Thanks for some of the responses. 

 

Just to lay it out there, I've chosen Pattaya to catch my breath after an 24 hr flight schedule and four continuous days of full day excursions from Bangkok. I've eliminated Phucket because I didn't wanted to add an additional two flights within my itinerary, in addition to what I already had. I understand there are some awesome beaches down there, but current balcony view is of Key Biscayne and Miami Beach. Hopefully on the next trip. Emphasis on trip is not beaches, unless there is a beach town near Bangkok to chill for a few days. I originally scouted  Hua Hin, but got determined it to be too boring. The Pattaya option I liked because it offers acceptable options north and south of the debauchery. That is not to say I won't partake, or at least visit and witness what is fabled in all I have read or researched about Pattaya. I just don't want it in my face the whole time. 

 

Still undecided between north or south beaches.

 

[newnative]

11 hours ago, Songkran18 said:

Thanks for some of the responses. 

 

Just to lay it out there, I've chosen Pattaya to catch my breath after an 24 hr flight schedule and four continuous days of full day excursions from Bangkok. I've eliminated Phucket because I didn't wanted to add an additional two flights within my itinerary, in addition to what I already had. I understand there are some awesome beaches down there, but current balcony view is of Key Biscayne and Miami Beach. Hopefully on the next trip. Emphasis on trip is not beaches, unless there is a beach town near Bangkok to chill for a few days. I originally scouted  Hua Hin, but got determined it to be too boring. The Pattaya option I liked because it offers acceptable options north and south of the debauchery. That is not to say I won't partake, or at least visit and witness what is fabled in all I have read or researched about Pattaya. I just don't want it in my face the whole time. 

 

Still undecided between north or south beaches.

 

     I think the Wongamat/Naklua part of Pattaya may be the nicest.   A number of upscale hotels and condos, fewer bars, lots families, several good seafood restaurants right on the ocean, plenty of other restaurants on the main road, and a nice, relaxed atmosphere.   I highly recommend a visit to the Sanctuary of Truth; you can spend a nice morning or afternoon there.