'Numerous fatalities' at Florida high school after ex-student opens fire

[Berkshire]

21 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Yes arming a selection of teachers is in order. On prevention  I understand that someone reported to FBI this locos online threats . But as usual after the fact when it is also reported that attackers were " on radar" nothing was done pro active. Seems some of these management SAPS at FBI think civil rights/privacy are more valued than public safety.

 

So law enforcement needs to be more "proactive."  I don't even want to ask what that means as you pro-gun dudes will come up with some long, rambling, antiquated answer....which won't work.  In America, it's pretty darn difficult to arrest someone and charge them with something they "might" do.  Unless you're wanting to go the way of the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report."  All we need to do is find some psychics who can see into the future. 

[morrobay]

And that preventative legislation is blocked by this same sorry liberal/saps mindset. Fascism is not all bad.

[Berkshire]

Trump is not talking much about the evil immigrants and the need for a wall since this killer is just a typical all-American white boy.  Well, not so typical but a right-wing racist dude...and avid Trump supporter.

 

[PARKLAND, Florida—Nikolas Cruz, the man accused of killing 17 people in a Florida high school, was a member of a “white separatist paramilitary proto-fascist organization,” a leader of the group told The Daily Beast.]

 

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/nikolas-cruz-trained-with-florida-white-supremacist-group-leader-says

[Jingthing]

It's rich to hear "trump" focus on mental illness and not one mention of guns. It's his regime that has made it easier for mentally ill people to legally buy guns.

 

 

Quote

 

Trump Doesn’t Care About What Actually Causes Violence

Anger, not mental illness, is most associated with violence. And our president stokes it.

 

 

 

https://slate.com/technology/2018/02/trumps-comments-on-mental-health-after-the-florida-school-shooting-ring-hollow.html

[bert bloggs]

I cannot understand why everyone is having a go at Trump , did any of the previous Presidents ban guns?  as far as i can see thats down to congress ,the president has no say in the matter , but then what do i know i am a Brit ,we banned gun ownership after our first mass shooting ,now only the bad guys have guns , we get put in the dock if we even attack someone who breaks into our house or tries to shoot us .

[Berkshire]

6 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I cannot understand why everyone is having a go at Trump , did any of the previous Presidents ban guns?  as far as i can see thats down to congress ,the president has no say in the matter

You're not an American, I get that.  But you should at least educate yourself a bit before rendering judgement.  JT posted an article above your post.  The below is an excerpt...

 

[Trump reversed a law that would have made it harder for people with mental illness to get guns. The law had been drafted following the Newtown, Connecticut, shooting that killed 20 children and eight adults (including the shooter and his mother). The president did not offer an explanation for his reversal.]

[bert bloggs]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

You're not an American, I get that.  But you should at least educate yourself a bit before rendering judgement.  JT posted an article above your post.  The below is an excerpt...

 

[Trump reversed a law that would have made it harder for people with mental illness to get guns. The law had been drafted following the Newtown, Connecticut, shooting that killed 20 children and eight adults (including the shooter and his mother). The president did not offer an explanation for his reversal.]

Yes ok ,but this guy had not been certified as having a mental illness(he may be nuts i dont know  ) so it would have not stopped him from getting a gun ,also can you tell me if any of the other mass shooters were certefied as mentally unstable? as i said i am a Brit so i dont know the answer , .

[attrayant]

36 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Trump is not talking much about the evil immigrants and the need for a wall since this killer is just a typical all-American white boy. 

 

Of course.  Didn't you get the memo?  It has a flow chart and everything.  We only talk about walls when the shooter is Hispanic.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by attrayant
made chart smaller

[pegman]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

The US is a little different than the UK and guns have a place in the country.   Anyone who has lived in the US, especially in the West will know that there are a lot of natural dangers.   My family routinely sees coyotes in the yard and bobcats and the occasional Mountain Lion strolls through.   No one shoots them unless they become threatening, which is infrequent, but it does happen.   

 

Like it or not, it is enshrined in the Constitution, but that doesn't mean that the type of weapon can't be regulated.   

Nonsense! I grew up in Canada where there is a hell of a lot more wildlife and wilderness. Never needed a gun. Hand guns have been serverly restricted since the 1930's. Long guns need to be trigger locked a stored in a locked cabinet. Our biggest problem is guns getting across from the States.

The Bill of Rights is open to interpretation. Problem is mafia political parties open to bribery from the likes of the NRA.

[Becker]

30 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I cannot understand why everyone is having a go at Trump , did any of the previous Presidents ban guns?  as far as i can see thats down to congress ,the president has no say in the matter , but then what do i know i am a Brit ,we banned gun ownership after our first mass shooting ,now only the bad guys have guns , we get put in the dock if we even attack someone who breaks into our house or tries to shoot us .

And how many mass shootings have you had in the UK for the last few decades?

[attrayant]

9 hours ago, Credo said:

The US is a little different than the UK and guns have a place in the country.   Anyone who has lived in the US, especially in the West will know that there are a lot of natural dangers. My family routinely sees coyotes in the yard and bobcats and the occasional Mountain Lion strolls through.

 

I've never been to the UK so this is an honest question: are there truly no such "natural dangers" there?

Edited February 16, 2018 by attrayant

[pegman]

32 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

I cannot understand why everyone is having a go at Trump , did any of the previous Presidents ban guns?  as far as i can see thats down to congress ,the president has no say in the matter , but then what do i know i am a Brit ,we banned gun ownership after our first mass shooting ,now only the bad guys have guns , we get put in the dock if we even attack someone who breaks into our house or tries to shoot us .

Bill Clinton, Federal Assault Weapons Ban. 

[pegman]

1 minute ago, attrayant said:

 

I've never been to the UK so this is an honest question: are there truly no such "natural dangers" there?

Do you mean like people with assault rifles?

[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Yes ok ,but this guy had not been certified as having a mental illness(he may be nuts i dont know  ) so it would have not stopped him from getting a gun ,also can you tell me if any of the other mass shooters were certefied as mentally unstable? as i said i am a Brit so i dont know the answer , .

I honestly believe that this whole mental illness thing, when it comes to mass shootings, is a red herring.  But it was Trump who brought it up.  Yet, it was Trump who made it easier for those with certifiable mental illness to get a gun.  Massive contradiction...but not surprising, coming from our liar-in-chief. 

[attrayant]

5 minutes ago, pegman said:

Do you mean like people with assault rifles?

 

That would be an example of a man-made danger, not a natural one.

 

I guess I snipped the quote too much.  I've gone back and included the bit about coyotes, bobcats and mountain lions.  Those are the natural dangers the poster was talking about.

[riclag]

The FBI blew it. Somebody reported this sicko,back in Sept,2017

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fbi-got-tip-about-threat-from-youtube-user-nikolas-cruz

 

"The FBI special agent on the case confirmed Thursday that the agency had received the tip, conducted database reviews and checks, but was not able to further identify the person behind the comment".

[stevenl]

4 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

The guns lived in the truck so I wasn't bringing the guns to school specifically but the truck was my transportation. The guns were there because we would shoot gophers and badgers that were digging up our fields, coyotes in the winter for fur, and deer and pheasants in the fall.  A gun didn't do you much good at home. In fact it would have been odd to not have a gun in the truck. But the point is that sane people can live with guns just fine. The problem in the schools is the kids are really messed up. Fix the breakdown of society and the killings will stop.

To a certain extend I agree with you, society has a problem. Disagree with you assigning the blame to feminism etc. though, and that the so0lution to the problem is to fix the breakdown in society.

[wayned]

Trump should be invited to the next scheduled mass murder and should be the "point" man and confront the shooter and convince him that he should not shoot anyone because he was mentally ill!  We would then have to switch gears, put our evangelical hats on and start taking about Pence!

[simple1]

37 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

That would be an example of a man-made danger, not a natural one.

 

I guess I snipped the quote too much.  I've gone back and included the bit about coyotes, bobcats and mountain lions.  Those are the natural dangers the poster was talking about.

Nope, no animals dangerous to man. except for an adder (snake), which is actually a protected species. Farm animals can be threatened by foxes and crops by birds. I worked on farms in the UK for a few years, never had a need for a gun, though we did have a shotgun.

[riclag]

16 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I honestly believe that this whole mental illness thing, when it comes to mass shootings, is a red herring.  But it was Trump who brought it up.  Yet, it was Trump who made it easier for those with certifiable mental illness to get a gun.  Massive contradiction...but not surprising, coming from our liar-in-chief. 

IMOP ,People who have Mental issues shouldn't have guns.But it's not a clear cut case of just making that claim, there are people's rights to do process of law,which was of concern  .Many liberal organizations such as, "disability and civil liberty advocacy groups, including the American Association of People with Disabilities, the Arc of the United States, the Association of Mature American Citizens, the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network, the National Alliance on Mental Illness, the National Council on Disability, the National Disability Rights Network and the American Civil Liberties Union". had issues with Mr. Obama's  broad brush rule .

 

 

"The Obama-era rule was designed to take away people's rights without due process of law".

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/reporters-resurrect-bogus-narrative-that-republicans-made-it-easier-for-the-mentally-ill-to-buy-guns/article/2636419

[maximillian]

On 15.2.2018 at 6:13 AM, Credo said:

A lot of thoughts and prayers being offered by people who are actually in a position to do something about these situations besides JUST thoughts and prayers.   

You <deleted> politicians can take all your prayers of sympathy and faux concern and shove them up your gun loving asses. The same goes for the NRA and its gun crazed members. The USA needs gun control. It works just fine for the civilized nations in the world. And it would work here too. Instead we only get more guns on the streets after these endless mass killings. The USA has become Lord of the Flies come to life and all the citizens advocating for less violence and guns are now the embodiment of the character Piggy who is brutally killed off. Way to go USA, you’re just so <deleted> exceptional at killing. Not much else.

(A comment in CommonDreams.org)

[doggie1955]

In a DUI, we blame the driver... In a bombing, we blame the bomber... In a shooting, we blame the gun?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, doggie1955 said:

In a DUI, we blame the driver... In a bombing, we blame the bomber... In a shooting, we blame the gun?

 

You can't buy bombs at the local shop or store in your town by just plunking down your money. There are laws against that. Just as there should be with guns.

 

[lannarebirth]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Chauvinistic Americans don't get basic things we can learn from other countries. Such as gun control and universal health care. It is truly tragic.

 

They think they know better. They do not. They squawk about American exceptionalism while being blind to the fact that's crystal clear to the rest of the world - - that on number of important issues the USA is exceptionally bad and backwards.

 

I don't hate USA. I love it enough to think it could be much better.

 

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

America is an exceptional country and that is primarily due to its geography. It is currently afflicted with a population more concerned with its "rights" than its responsibilities but that too will pass.

[Becker]

7 minutes ago, doggie1955 said:

In a DUI, we blame the driver... In a bombing, we blame the bomber... In a shooting, we blame the gun?

Drivers have to undergo fairly rigorous training and certification to be allowed ownership of a car. Bombs are illegal for everyone but the armed forces to possess.

Not so with guns as they're readily available with , at best, a cursory background check. That also includes the ownership of semi-automatic assault rifles, which even the craziest gun nut cannot claim is really necessary in the defense against crazed badgers or fierce raccoons. 

[attrayant]

55 minutes ago, doggie1955 said:

In a bombing, we blame the bomber... In a shooting, we blame the gun?

 

Are you suggesting that guns should be as hard to get as bombs are, or that bombs should be as easy to get as guns are?

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by attrayant

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, jvs said:

I have no idea do you?

 

Yes I do, as do many people in positions to do something about it, but won't. Apparently too much money being made to control it.

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, attrayant said:

 

Are you're suggesting that guns should be as hard to get as bombs are, or that bombs should be as easy to get as guns are?

Anyone that wants to can make one. A Molotov cocktail is one sort. Used by people in Northern Ireland during the troubles.

Edited February 16, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

52 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You can't buy bombs at the local shop or store in your town by just plunking down your money. There are laws against that. Just as there should be with guns.

 

There are lots of laws about guns and nowhere more so, apparently, than Chicago, where hundreds of people are killed with guns. 

NB a city run by Democrats for a very long time.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, maximillian said:

You <deleted> politicians can take all your prayers of sympathy and faux concern and shove them up your gun loving asses. The same goes for the NRA and its gun crazed members. The USA needs gun control. It works just fine for the civilized nations in the world. And it would work here too. Instead we only get more guns on the streets after these endless mass killings. The USA has become Lord of the Flies come to life and all the citizens advocating for less violence and guns are now the embodiment of the character Piggy who is brutally killed off. Way to go USA, you’re just so <deleted> exceptional at killing. Not much else.

(A comment in CommonDreams.org)

In Switzerland the government encourages the populace to own military style weapons ( a great many do ) and they don't have mass murders. It's obviously more about the character of Americans than guns per se.