Running Injury - Some advice before doctor.

[yogavnture]

if your foot recovers have u ever considered trail running. i also have weak ankles and i have taped them in the past with decent results.  u might think its boring but a good yoga class and teacher can be helpful. i also meditate. what city u live in

[BBJ]

Just now, yogavnture said:

i have to tell you as a mid 50 year old man i hate gyms.  i know they are helpful but i do a daily self practice yoga. get a good massage which is really like exercise. but its true running is a magical cardio workout for sure.  i would get xray. and crazy enuf tiger balm i think works. it creates sensations that focus your mind towards healing of an area. thais swear by the stuff

12

I hate them too, as I prefer competitive sports.  This is the first time I have resorted to one simply because I have to give racquet sports up.  Other than my motorcycle and doing activities with my daughter, I've had no exercise.

[BBJ]

Just now, yogavnture said:

if your foot recovers have u ever considered trail running. i also have weak ankles and i have taped them in the past with decent results.  u might think its boring but a good yoga class and teacher can be helpful. i also meditate. what city u live in

Near Min Buri BKK

 

[yogavnture]

1 minute ago, BBJ said:

Near Min Buri BKK

 

so i will assume u live in BKK in a suburb. why dont u try a yoga class.  i would try ashtanga. but iyengar is decent too. its like a massage lady. u have to hunt around for a good one. ive found a magical massage lady and im not interested in relationship with somebody i cant talk to . but i spend a month in Europe kayaking and snorkelling and i get shoulder issues. and ive considered shipping her over their for daily massages. just a fantasy. i i get shoulder issues from kayaking and i swear on god. that a good massage in that area lets me keep up the kayaking.  their are good yoga teachers in BKK for sure.  if u really did mess up your foot it could take months to recover from it . look for alternative activities now.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

I run a lot, some road races, some trail races.

 

I get the injuries from running, usually my leg not foot.  I've found that you have to rest it for more than you think; weeks rather than days.  It can be tempting when it starts to feel okay again to start running again, but when I've done that the injury has flared up again.

 

Proper stretching before and after running is important but not some stretches for some types of injuries (hamstrings?) as that might make it worse.

 

Running on sand is good advice.  Running on a slight incline too (especially on treadmills).  If you do trail running, the downhill part is hard on the legs because of the impact.

 

And obviously buy some decent branded running shoes and replace them when they start to wear out.  This can get expensive if you run a lot for long distances and especially if you run trail races - one 70km trail run can totally destroy a new pair of trainers.

[thecyclist]

I have been jogging for over 40 years, and the aches and pain in knees, hips, feet, back, even toes have come and gone.As much as possible I run through the pain, just at a very slow pace, and more often than not the pain fades or goes.

Lots of stretching before and after and sometimes during the run helps.

Just keep moving.

[JPFIT]

Rest and Ice the top of your foot with an ice pack for 3 days 3 or 4 times a day you can still swim but no impact cycling as you say is ok because there is no impact.  Hard to diagnose with out seeing your foot but could be either tendonitis or stress fracture of the metatarsals, let hope its not that.   Also check that your laces are not done up too tight putting pressure on that area as your feet swell when they get hot.  Are you flat footed? to check look on the internet and do a wet footprint test.  Any questions happy to help been a sports therapist with the military for over 30 years.

RUNNING SHOE LEFLET[1].pub

[gamesgplayemail]

Running has never been safe, especially for older people.

 

Using an elliptical machine is the only smart way to run.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by gamesgplayemail

[SpokaneAl]

Running has never been safe, especially for older people.
 
Using an elliptical machine is the only smart way to run.
 
 

Urban folklore.


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[BBJ]

No, I’m not flat-footed.  I land on the front part of my foot, not the heal.  I’ve also checked a few videos on running tecqnique and from what I can see, my style seems ok.

 

I think it may have been too much too soon.  

 

Ice pack a few times a day.  

[gamesgplayemail]

4 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

Urban folklore.


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Say it to your surgeon when you will be at hospital.

 

 

 

[SpokaneAl]

 
Say it to your surgeon when you will be at hospital.
 
 
 

Well, I am 67 years old and have been running for almost 41 years. I ran and also swam this morning and also ran yesterday.


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[JPFIT]

1 hour ago, JPFIT said:

Rest and Ice the top of your foot with an ice pack for 3 days 3 or 4 times a day you can still swim but no impact cycling as you say is ok because there is no impact.  Hard to diagnose with out seeing your foot but could be either tendonitis or stress fracture of the metatarsals, let hope its not that.   Also check that your laces are not done up too tight putting pressure on that area as your feet swell when they get hot.  Are you flat footed? to check look on the internet and do a wet footprint test.  Any questions happy to help been a sports therapist with the military for over 30 years.

RUNNING SHOE LEFLET[1].pub

It sounds like overuse yes too much too soon have you used an elliptical before, running action but no impact and it is weight bearing.  When doing any training think about the FITT principle Frequency, Intensity time and type apply this when you get back to running change the surface ie on a track which is sprung or on grass or sand,.  If you are icing the top of the foot with an ice pack 10 mins a time is enough try and do 3 or four times a day.  Good luck hope my advice is of some use.

 

Joe

[ToddinChonburi]

Try walking and see if you still get the pain.  Could be your arches just can't handle it.

[ToddinChonburi]

Try walking and see if you still get the pain.  Could be your arches just can't handle it.

[ToddinChonburi]

I walk outside and on a treadmill.   The treadmill seems to control your speed forcing you to work harder and ad stress on your body. You may have a stress fracture.

[DJKwik]

Hi BBJ,

 

This sounds like a running injury I suffered from a few years ago - plantar fasciitis (the tendon that runs the bottom length of your foot).  Like you, I injured it running, didn't realize what it was, ran again a few days later which then really seriously injured it.

 

Here in Thailand, it took four different doctor visits, a steroid injection (into my heel), and a lot of on-line research and learning more about the injuring.

 

This is what worked for me:

-Stretching my legs and especially the plantar tendon.  You can google search and find several different stretches.  Use the ones that works for you.

-Ice pack.  I freeze a zipper-bag of water and after running (long walk or anytime there is pain from walking), I ice my foot.  I place a towel on the floor; place the ice pack on the towel, and then, while seated, place my foot, bottom-of foot on top of the ice pack.  I keep it on ice 5-10 minutes.

-Golf ball massage.  I read on line and one of the docs I visited, explained that as the tendon was healing, it was developing scar tissue that will restrict the movement and elasticity of the tendon.  The gold ball helps smooth or clear out the scar tissue.  While seated, place golf ball on floor, roll the ball under the ball of your injured foot.  This will likely not feel good but should not hurt.  Roll slowly, with mild pressure (not full body pressure!).  Roll front to back-back to front and, if possible, side to side.  Focus rolling (massage) on the stops that are tender (hurt).

 

In my opinion, the golf ball should be after your are confident the injuring is starting to heal.  The golf ball massage should only cause very, very mild pain at best.  When I think back to when I first injured my foot, there is no way I could have tolerated a golf ball massage.

 

Ice should be your best friend!!

 

Good luck and happy running!!

[BBJ]

1 hour ago, ToddinChonburi said:

Try walking and see if you still get the pain.  Could be your arches just can't handle it.

Normal walking is painful.  As I mentioned prior, I am walking flat footed.  However, since the swimming cycling and ice this late morning, the pain is much less.

Edited February 19, 2018 by BBJ

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Give it all up; strenuous exercise after the age of forty is proven to be seriously deleterious to health, especially if you are an ex-athletic type. Sink into middle age gracefully, drink a few beers, grow and nurture a paunch lovingly, your partner will appreciate you more and more as a warm and comforting alternative to that Asian abomination, the bolster.

[Mansell]

If you don't find anybody to correctly diagnose your foot issue in BKK, there is a German doctor in Patong, Phuket. who is excellent and did wonders for me after I hit a dog with my right foot riding at 60mph. You could fly down there and back again for around 1,600 baht on AirAsia. You may have damaged your ligaments and swimming and biking might alleviate the pain. I ended up on crutches and foot elevated for months to heal correctly. Good luck.

[MyFriend You]

11 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

Three possibilities come to mind.

 

Are you wearing good running shoes, made specifically for running? 

 

https://www.runningshoesguru.com/content/best-running-shoes/ 

 

You may may be experiencing an overuse injury. The rule of thumb is never to increase either mileage or distance by more than ten percent from one week to the next. And in that you are new to running I would suggest caution and perhaps less than that.

 

You may also be pushing too hard and/or too fast too soon. Longer slower stuff on a number of the days, faster, more intense but much shorter intervals on other days, and rest and stretching in between.

 

If your pain goes away when you run, you are probably okay to continue. If it continues to hurt or get worse, stop and heal.

You beat me too it, first suspect is his shoes, also is he wearing thick wick socks that obsorbs sweat (polyester does not)........as a former half marathoner, I learned to but good shoes, not the Chinese, Thai, Vietnam shoes,,,,,,,,,,, New Balance made in the USA only.

[VocalNeal]

From my personal experience it is likely to be the incorrect shoes for you. Forget what everyone else uses you have to find your own shoe. Agreed this is easier in the west where they have dedicated running shops/stores.

It could be nothing more than you have a high bridge and either you shoes are too tight or you need different shoes or re lace your shoes a different way.

Do you heel lock your shoes using heel lock lacing? Try ladder or straight lacing the way dress shoes are laced rather than the more common cross over lacing found now. 

 

Or as I don't seem to see it mentioned here it could be Extensor tendonitis. 

 

Extensor tendonitis is most often caused by lacing your shoes too tightly or having an ill-fitting shoe, in which case the lace creates a pressure point along the top of the foot. Swelling can often occur and it’s very likely you see a large bump or nodule somewhere on the tendon itself.

As with black toenails, extensor tendonitis can be extremely painful as the tendon will rub against the shoe with almost every step. Luckily, despite the presence of a nodule and swelling, this “injury” is not very serious.

 

Just one example of treatment below. Have a good surf and find out as much as you can and start your own regime. 

 

Extensor tendonitis treatment

What can the athlete do about inflamed extensor tendons?

Rest until the pain has gone. Continuing to train when the foot is painful will only make the injury worse and delay the healing. If it becomes chronic or the tendon degenerates then healing will take much longer. Apply a cold therapy and compression wrap.

Apply ice of cold therapy can be applied for 10 minutes every hour initially reducing frequency as required over the next 48 hours. Ice can be applied in a wet tea towel or with a re-useable ice pack. Do not apply ice directly to the skin as it may burn. Read more on PRICE principles.

Once the initial painful acute stage has passed then application of heat may be more effective. Ensure footwear is appropriate and in particular the shoes are not laced too tightly. Over tightening the laces puts direct pressure over the extensor tendons in the foot. It may help to try a different lacing pattern. Running shoes are usually good for 400 miles of running and then would benefit from being replaced. Read more on choosing running shoes.

When all pain has gone a full rehabilitation program to strengthen the extensor muscles should be done. A sports injury professional can advise on the correct exercises to strengthen the extensor muscles. These should always be done pain free and with care. As this is often an over use injury doing too much too soon may increase the chances of the injury recurring rather than achieve the opposite result.

Toe raise exercises which lift the foot up and curl the toes back will work the foot extensor muscles. These should be done in the seated position initially and will also work other muscles of the lower leg and shin.

 

There is an ad hoc sports medicine clinic at  Saint Loius hospital in Bangkok. Send me a PM if you want to go there and I will find out the day and the doctor to ask for.

 

When it is all done come to the Hash?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by VocalNeal

[BBJ]

^

When I first started jogging I did it barefoot.  When my right foot hurt I switched to my Reebok running shoes which felt better until recently.

Not red!

 

Wife found a sports injury specialist nearby which I'll try first before emailing you.

 

My foot is not as bad today since swimming/cycling and applying the ice pack during the day, yesterday.

[yogavnture]

everybodys foot has a different shape and thus certain brands of shoe work best for them. but its kind of hard to argue with a good nike air full foot air shoe. walking on air?  how can that be beat? in usa nike has policy i think 30days returnand u can even go running in them to try. but i dont think that offer is good in thailand. try before u buy. how can u beat that

Edited February 20, 2018 by yogavnture
spelling

[yogavnture]

3 hours ago, BBJ said:

^

When I first started jogging I did it barefoot.  When my right foot hurt I switched to my Reebok running shoes which felt better until recently.

Not red!

 

Wife found a sports injury specialist nearby which I'll try first before emailing you.

 

My foot is not as bad today since swimming/cycling and applying the ice pack during the day, yesterday.

did u ever consider just taking a full dayoff?  how about a week off?  the body needs time to heal. the body wants to heal but u have to let it

[yogavnture]

how often do u replace shoes

[SpokaneAl]

everybodys foot has a different shape and thus certain brands of shoe work best for them. but its kind of hard to argue with a good nike air full foot air shoe. walking on air?  how can that be beat? in usa nike has policy i think 30days returnand u can even go running in them to try. but i dont think that offer is good in thailand. try before u buy. how can u beat that

The challenge is that every shoe brand offers different types of shoes to fit different types of feet. There are motion control shoes, stability shoes and neutral types of shoes.

One really needs to know a bit more about a person’s foot before making any recommendation


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[SpokaneAl]

how often do u replace shoes

I replace my shoes every four months, which equals to approximately 400 miles or so per pair. And you can’t really look at a pair of shoes to determine if they are worn, much of the wear is internal.


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[yogavnture]

3 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

The challenge is that every shoe brand offers different types of shoes to fit different types of feet. There are motion control shoes, stability shoes and neutral types of shoes.

One really needs to know a bit more about a person’s foot before making any recommendation


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pounding on the body is not good.. how can one argue with running on air?  nike is a nasty company now though. i wish thier patents would be taken off so other shoe companies could utilize air technology

[yogavnture]

3 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

The challenge is that every shoe brand offers different types of shoes to fit different types of feet. There are motion control shoes, stability shoes and neutral types of shoes.

One really needs to know a bit more about a person’s foot before making any recommendation


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how about cushioning shoes? i hear under armour is now making shoes.