Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Laughing Gravy]

55 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

For the record, the chaos surrounding Brexit is solely due to the losers of the democratic referendum being unable to accept that the vote went against their wishes. It is comical seeing the likes of Blair who wouldn't allow a single referendum on the issue now calling for a 2nd one. Jaw dropping hypocrisy.

 Eloquently put, as the truth often hurts.

[cooked]

25 minutes ago, Wiggy said:

I'm not sure it's racist, but your comment says to me that those who are homeless could afford a home if there was one available. I'm not sure that's the case. Besides, most immigrants don't suddenly turn up and automatically get 'given' a property to live in, thus denying others. That is somewhat of a myth. Just saying.

I hardly said that. The fact that hundreds of thousands are arriving every year makes it impossible to do any planning (the government would have to build a city the size of Luton every year at present). The same thing is happening all over Europe, chaos is guaranteed.

[Blackheart1916]

28 minutes ago, Grouse said:

The "government" seem to do nothing except argue over Brexit. Not only have they taken their eye off the ball, they've lost it.

The process is being hampered by those who will simply not accept the result of a democratic vote.

[Wiggy]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

If you ignore this referendum result, as you propose and support, the consequence would be that nobody henceforth would take any referendum seriously, knowing that the outcome need not be acted upon. It wouldn't matter how many times the politicians were to tell us that, "no, really, this time we'll listen to how you vote and let you decide". Nobody would believe them. How could they?

 

That's the thing. There's no turning back when you set a precedent.

 

Remainers don't seem to comprehend the damage they would be doing by overturning the referendum. It would far far outweigh any potential damage Brexit will do.

 

If you think the UK is a divided country facing lots of difficulties now, you haven't seen anything yet, once you get your way.

As referendums in the UK are not legally binding (they need to be later endorsed by an Act of Parliament) due to constitutional sovereignty, Cameron could've insisted that a two-thirds (i.e. super-majority) would be required for the referendum to be endorsed, especially as it was such a major decision affecting the long-term future of the UK. If a super-majority had been required (and other countries do this) then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Cameron was probably so confident it would be a Remain vote he didn't bother. I'm not advocating Leave or Remain, as it works both ways, I'm just saying.

[thaiguzzi]

2 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

The vote was in favor of an exit, a point that some people seem to have difficulty with.

 

Why put the whole move off?    Wouldn't just extending the two years be a better proposal?   Of course it would, except in the minds of those who are still opposing it.

As a referendum, it was never well planned or well thought out. Final count was 49-51 or similar?

 That's just too close to call, ie the losing 49%, from whatever side will feel aggrieved. And that's a helluva lot of the population.

Should have made a 2/3rds majority rule or something prior to calling it, i don't know.

What i do know is the vast majority of younger people voted Remain, whilst the vast majority of older people inc pensioners etc voted Leave. But they'll all be dead in 10-20 years, leaving the Remainers to sort out their mess. 

And it is a mess.

Me personally, i'm sitting on the fence, didn't vote, and i see negatives and positives on both sides of the argument.

[Wiggy]

20 minutes ago, cooked said:

I hardly said that. The fact that hundreds of thousands are arriving every year makes it impossible to do any planning (the government would have to build a city the size of Luton every year at present). The same thing is happening all over Europe, chaos is guaranteed.

That's very true, planning for new housing is a shambles. I'm merely suggesting that I don't think the number of homeless is related to immigration. In fact, net migration to the UK decreased by nearly 54% in 2017 (230,000 down to 106,000) whereas homelessness went up by 15%. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by Wiggy

[JonnyF]

I wouldn't wipe my ar$e with that rag "The Guardian". Instead of unbiased reporting of the news they just continue to peddle their Remain agenda with poorly written articles such as this one.

 

The sorriest case of poor losers that I can remember. Their lies of impending doom didn't work before the vote so they continue with some lame attempt at "I told you so" for years afterwards. I can imagine this idiot crying into their Latte over breakfast, blaming Brexit because their toast landed butter side down. You lost, suck it up and get behind the country and maybe just maybe, in 10 years when the EU is slowly collapsing and Britain is standing on it's own 2 feet, sovereignty intact, unelected Eurocrats long gone, you'll be big enough to admit you were wrong.

 

 

 

[Wiggy]

11 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

As a referendum, it was never well planned or well thought out. Final count was 49-51 or similar?

 That's just too close to call, ie the losing 49%, from whatever side will feel aggrieved. And that's a helluva lot of the population.

Should have made a 2/3rds majority rule or something prior to calling it, i don't know.

What i do know is the vast majority of younger people voted Remain, whilst the vast majority of older people inc pensioners etc voted Leave. But they'll all be dead in 10-20 years, leaving the Remainers to sort out their mess. 

And it is a mess.

Me personally, i'm sitting on the fence, didn't vote, and i see negatives and positives on both sides of the argument.

Well said.

[thaiguzzi]

7 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

So, - in addition to ignoring the results of the referendum {the will of the majority} the wealthiest Brits are dictating to the "Common Folk" just how they they shall think, behave, and express themselves.

 

Don't they teach British history in the universities anymore?

Damn small majority for such an important decision.

[cooked]

7 minutes ago, Wiggy said:

That's very true, planning for new housing is a shambles. I'm merely suggesting that I don't think the number of homeless is related to immigration. In fact, net migration to the UK decreased by nearly 54% in 2017 (230,000 down to 106,000) whereas homelessness went up by 15%. 

Yes I know. Let me put it another way: mass, uncontrolled movements of people leads to chaos. 

A lot of people,, from extreme left to extreme right, think that they will be profiting from the chaos. 

[simoh1490]

36 minutes ago, FreddieRoyle said:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/924875/german-companies-panicking-brexit-looms-survey

"Express", too funny, what do the real newspapers say on the subject?

[simoh1490]

11 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I wouldn't wipe my ar$e with that rag "The Guardian". Instead of unbiased reporting of the news they just continue to peddle their Remain agenda with poorly written articles such as this one.

 

The sorriest case of poor losers that I can remember. Their lies of impending doom didn't work before the vote so they continue with some lame attempt at "I told you so" for years afterwards. I can imagine this idiot crying into their Latte over breakfast, blaming Brexit because their toast landed butter side down. You lost, suck it up and get behind the country and maybe just maybe, in 10 years when the EU is slowly collapsing and Britain is standing on it's own 2 feet, sovereignty intact, unelected Eurocrats long gone, you'll be big enough to admit you were wrong.

 

 

 

You must be an Express of Sun wiping sort I imagine!

 

But you say in just maybe in 10 years when the EU is collapsing..... that's an improvement over the last chap, Sgt Rock, who reckoned that the collapse of Deutsche Bank would cause the EU to implode last year - has collapsing been postponed!, 

[aright]

35 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I will continue to guzzle St Agur regardless ?

Typical!!! Bang on about your Danish stolt , your new Passport and its Country's values then choose French commercial ug over Danablu which is matured in a cave.

To avoid any misunderstandings I am making no connection between you and a cave.

[Orac]

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

"Express", too funny, what do the real newspapers say on the subject?

 

 

You should read article. Apparently this 'panic' the headline refers to is derived from 36% of German companies 'expressing pessimism' about brexit.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Orac
Mess

[simoh1490]

Just now, Orac said:

 

You should read the article. 

 

You should read article. Apparently this 'panic' the headline refers to is derived from 36% of German companies 'expressing pessimism' about brexit.

I will swallow my concealed cyanide capsule before ever reading the Express, but thank you for the information regardless.

[bert bloggs]

Gave up bothering when i saw it was an article in the Guardian ,which has so few readers and advertizers it has to beg for donations to keep going .

[aright]

20 minutes ago, thaiguzzi said:

Damn small majority for such an important decision.

You need a broader picture.

The electors decided in a democratically held referendum to leave the EU, this decision was overwhelming endorsed by a democratically elected House of Commons which approved our democratically elected Government to trigger Article 50.

What more do you want?

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, bert bloggs said:

Gave up bothering when i saw it was an article in the Guardian ,which has so few readers and advertizers it has to beg for donations to keep going .

Compared to the others which litter their pages with advertising, depends what you want to read, a newspaper or a bunch of adverts.

[thaiguzzi]

12 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

"Now that Britain has voted to leave the EU, with a national turnout of 72.2 per cent, this fear seems to be realised. Those areas with the highest share of older voters also enjoyed the highest turnout, helping to shift the referendum. Jul 1, 2016"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2016/06/24/how-did-turnout-affect-the-eu-referendum-result/

I rest my case...

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, aright said:

You need a broader picture.

The electors decided in a democratically held referendum to leave the EU, this decision was overwhelming endorsed by a democratically elected House of Commons which approved our democratically elected Government to trigger Article 50.

What more do you want?

 

I helped complete your post for you, I mean, what are pals for if not to help each other.

 

The electors decided in a democratically held referendum to leave the EU, this decision was overwhelming endorsed by a democratically elected House of Commons which approved our democratically elected Government to trigger Article 50, which then allows us to dive into this black deep chasm where nobody knows what's at the bottom.

[thaiguzzi]

3 minutes ago, hyku1147 said:

Please expand.

Can't be arsed. I'm not picking fights on this topic, as i said earlier, i'm a fence sitter, i see rights and wrongs on both sides.

Plus i don't live or work there anymore, and haven't in 15 years.

It may affect my son's inheritence one day, it may not.

One thing it has affected, on a selfish personal level, is my monthly stipend from the UK due to the shitty post Brexit exchange rate.

Edited February 28, 2018 by thaiguzzi

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You must be an Express of Sun wiping sort I imagine!

 

But you say in just maybe in 10 years when the EU is collapsing..... that's an improvement over the last chap, Sgt Rock, who reckoned that the collapse of Deutsche Bank would cause the EU to implode last year - has collapsing been postponed!, 

No, I get my news from much more unbiased sources, I dislike the propaganda from both sides of the UK press equally and find it pretty embarrassing to be honest.

 

Cracks are already starting to form in the EU. A huge net contributor leaving the bloc leaves a massive financial hole and while they've just about managed to stifle the internal arguments about who is going to plug that hole for now, they're treading on very thin ice . They know it would only take one of the other big 5 large contributors to leave and there would be a very real possibility that things would quickly get messy. They're terrified of that happening, that's why they're trying to make an example of Britain to deter what could be disastrous for them. I think they way the EU have gone about things since the vote (demanding 100 Billion divorce bill or whatever it was) has really exposed them and if I wasn't a supporter of Brexit before, I would be now having witnessed the way the EU has handled things, especially Juncker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

No, I get my news from much more unbiased sources, I dislike the propaganda from both sides of the UK press equally and find it pretty embarrassing to be honest.

 

Cracks are already starting to form in the EU. A huge net contributor leaving the bloc leaves a massive financial hole and while they've just about managed to stifle the internal arguments about who is going to plug that hole for now, they're treading on very thin ice . They know it would only take one of the other big 5 large contributors to leave and there would be a very real possibility that things would quickly get messy. They're terrified of that happening, that's why they're trying to make an example of Britain to deter what could be disastrous for them. I think they way the EU have gone about things since the vote (demanding 100 Billion divorce bill or whatever it was) has really exposed them and if I wasn't a supporter of Brexit before, I would be now having witnessed the way the EU has handled things, especially Juncker.

 

 

5

That's an altogether much better post and I agree totally about Juncker's behaviour. But I don't think that detracts from the realities of Brexit being a very complicated process which involves much more than just sending out business people to create trade deals. Junckers behaviour certainly hasn't helped but even with his full cooperation, it remains a complex task which still runs the risk of going off the rails.

[boomerangutang]

It's not easy dealing with people at the bottom rungs of the social ladder. 

I was in the heart of downtown San Francisco, a place where salaries are in the hundreds of thousands of dollar/yr, not counting percs of millions of dollars for lucky money handlers, 

 

....and there were people sleeping on sidewalks in sleeping bags that looked like they hadn't been cleaned since 9-11.

 

HRC's book, "It takes a Village" had the right idea, ....but people ww are getting more divorced from the concept of people helping others in need.  I don't know much about Britain and its politicians, but if it's anything like Republicans in the US, then it will be rich getting richer, and poor getting yellow-colored trickle-down liquid on their heads.

[David in the north]

3 hours ago, Blackheart1916 said:

Ridiculous article. From the Guardian, so any semblance of reality is fleeting at best. So none of these problems existed before the Brexit vote? I doubt it. Anti Brexit people are like anti Trumpers - blame for any and all ills, real or imagined, are laid at the doorstep of Brexit and Trump. You got beat, get over it, carry on. If the quick Brexit had been started, it would almost be finished now, but the anti Brexit crowd seem to now enjoy being perpetually aggrieved.

Agreed

[David in the north]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

Good article - its in the Guardian - so far to the left its almost horizontal. It needs the country to get behind Brexit now, accept the vote was "out" & do the best for UK instead of this constant sniping in hope of scoring political points. 

[RichardColeman]

I'm happy if the remoaners want another vote - in another generation. Say 30 years. I'll be dead by then or probably in a care home where i might look more favourably on a hot Polish nurse giving me a bedbath ! 

[JAG]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article, and it makes the same point(s) that I have been making for a while.

 

The referendum was twenty months ago and the government seems not a whole lot more prepared for the consequences than they were then. Brexit is a huge, fiendishly complex process of untangling ties that have evolved over forty years or so, and the likelihood of them being severed in a reasonable manner within two years was always nonsense.

 

There is an obvious solution. The UK is simply not prepared for Brexit at this moment, so it should swallow its pride, admit that, and put off the whole idea for a generation. If there is still a desire on the part of her citizens to leave the EU in... twenty years(?), then there can be another referendum held, but this time with the proper preparation.

 

Continuing down this path will cause more harm that good, despite the results of the Referendum. Common sense desperately needs to beak out.

 

I'm sorry, but it is not a good article. It seeks to link two wholly unrelated issues, homelessness, in itself often if not invariably linked with issues around mental health and addiction, and the decision of the British people, as expressed in a referendum, to leave the UK. The pitiful state of the man this journalist encounters every day has nothing to do with the referendum decision. It is deeply cynical to ascribe it to that decision. It is, I'm sorry to say, rather naive to believe that.

 

Your own country (the USA?) was born out of a political upheaval which was not, history tells us, universally or even overwhelmingly supported by what would today perhaps be described as a supermajority. Eventually, the will of the majority prevailed (albeit with substantial support from that bastion of freedom and democratic values, the pre-revolutionary French monarchial state) and the Republic was formed. Brexit is a similar if not so dramatic political upheaval. The British electorate were given the opportunity to choose and chose by a narrow majority to leave. How would you respond if, after the  Second Continental Congress in Philadelphia in 1776 it had been suggested that you leave the issue and come back and think again in a generation or so?

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

If you ignore this referendum result, as you propose and support, the consequence would be that nobody henceforth would take any referendum seriously, knowing that the outcome need not be acted upon. It wouldn't matter how many times the politicians were to tell us that, "no, really, this time we'll listen to how you vote and let you decide". Nobody would believe them. How could they?

 

That's the thing. There's no turning back when you set a precedent.

 

Remainers don't seem to comprehend the damage they would be doing by overturning the referendum. It would far far outweigh any potential damage Brexit will do.

 

If you think the UK is a divided country facing lots of difficulties now, you haven't seen anything yet, once you get your way.

We have representatives who are professionals, they are called politicians who are supposed to make policies, so we shouldn't to be ruled by the street. Wasn't there a survey done not so long ago which showed 20% of the British public couldn't read a bus time table, and they are supposed to decide the nations future on Brexit. 

[PEE TEE]

whole thing is a shambles . just wish they get it sorted as this crap exchange rate is killing me yep in selfish  .