What IS one of the most NECESSARY English learning needs that you feel Thai women need to develop: speaking/listening, writing, or reading?

[speckio]

being able to communicate via English is a nice skill to have considering its an international language that is used throughout the world... but if you are a farm girl with no interest in leaving the country or real aspirations to get a higher level of education then there is no point.

 

Also the Thai government has pretty much already tried to make English the secondary language of the country... everyone knows the English alphabet, but overall knowing or not knowing English doesn't affect the daily life of most Thai citizens. 

 

its very hubristic to travel to a foreign country and get angry or agitated that the people native the country aren't fluent in your native tongue and look down on them because of it.  

[EnlightenedAtheist]

3 hours ago, owl sees all said:

Who wants to learn Thai?

 

Doing the people here a better service by teaching them English.

 

One very big differece, in Thailand, between the top people and the farm workers is their English skills

Same in the West. Accents, grammar skills, spelling skills are routinely used to size a candidate at an interview. It is highly unfair in light of this research. The body of the research is heavy, but needed to substantiate the thesis, but the conclusion will suffice to to get the gist. The elite, the upper middle classes use language to get an upper hand and it starts when we are born. The table is never or rarely leveled, no matter what THEY say: Thai or not, learning English. (https://scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mazel.pdf) It could, but the orthography and the grammar would need to be simplified and THEY do not want that.

Edited March 19, 2018 by EnlightenedAtheist

[JLCrab]

52 minutes ago, speckio said:

its very hubristic to travel to a foreign country and get angry or agitated that the people native the country aren't fluent in your native tongue and look down on them because of it.  

My girlfriend of almost 10 years doesn't speak any English (OK she likes to say WOW!) but I don't look down on her because she likes to be on top.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

5 hours ago, speckio said:

I am hoping you meant "comprehension" and not "listening"

 

cause a person can listen and hear the words clearly coming out of your mouth but still not understand what you are trying to say

 

 Listening is the usual word used when we talk about skills in language learning. We are assuming that the Thai person would have the ability to comprehend written texts or auditory material in Thai and, once given the divergent phonemes/graphemes, rules, and/or vocabulary, English.

[JLCrab]

16 hours ago, transam said:

We are all different in our capabilities regarding anything, including languages.

I can accept that....

My first trip to Thailand was in 1988. I spent the bulk of my leisure time (and it was mostly all leisure time) writing out the Thai alphabet and writing words in Thai script over-and-over filling up notebooks because -- at least to some people -- when you would come to a country like Thailand, about the first thing you would do is to start to learn the language.

 

... but we are (mostly) all different.

[pearciderman]

26 minutes ago, Prairieboy said:

Your reading comprehension skills are obviously lacking!

 

 "Since the official language of ASEAN is English I believe all signs - roads, shops, information, etc. should be bilingual.  It would certainly be proof of compliance with the ASEAN charter. "

 

It seems my reading is fine, it is your memory and knowledge that is lacking.

 

Here is the charter, feel free to read all 59 pages and find where it says bilingual signs are required.

 

 

http://asean.org/wp-content/uploads/images/archive/publications/ASEAN-Charter.pdf

 

[transam]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

My first trip to Thailand was in 1988. I spent the bulk of my leisure time (and it was mostly all leisure time) writing out the Thai alphabet and writing words in Thai script over-and-over filling up notebooks because -- at least to some people -- when you would come to a country like Thailand, about the first thing you would do is to start to learn the language.

 

... but we are (mostly) all different.

That's great, but my learning and working days are long gone, I now have no interest in doing that stuff. That doesn't mean I haven't picked up some of the Lao lingo over the years though.....Same as many Thai folk have picked up some English..

Yesterday I went to buy my bread for the freezer, whilst waiting an old Thai lady came up to me and said.."You boxer on television"..?  

I laughed and said."Borrrr"....

[JLCrab]

I started doing that 'stuff' -- in my case learning written Chinese -- almost 50 years ago so learning a non-European language for some is about innate as picking up a wrench for others. But I do enjoy reading the reasons why some choose to live in Thailand but not learn the language to at least a conversant level.

[owl sees all]

30 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

But I do enjoy reading the reasons why some choose to live in Thailand but not learn the language to at least a conversant level.

Most farang here for the long-haul learn enough to get by.

[greenchair]

I teach only speaking and listening. 

Part of speaking and listening is phonetic sounds and pronunciation, which leads to reading which leads to writing which leads to grammar which leads to whole understanding of a language. 

 

[JLCrab]

36 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Most farang here for the long-haul learn enough to get by.

TO me getting by is being able to speak with a Thai who does not speak English. YMMV.

[owl sees all]

6 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

TO me getting by is being able to speak with a Thai who does not speak English. YMMV.

I make you right there JLC, if that what you think.

 

But 'getting by' can be defined in broad range of lingo skills. Most farang I know have enough in their locker to go shopping but couldn't hold a conversation, at any level, with a non-English-speaking Isaan Thai, about football or the weather.

Edited March 20, 2018 by owl sees all

[JLCrab]

That's what I think. I think one can have a perfectly happy fulfilling life here in Thailand without it, but that means you have relegated your life here in Thailand to a segment of the Thai population that speaks English unless your significant other or someone else is helping you out.

[Scott]

I'll close this topic for clean up after having received numerous reports.   Continued off-topic trolling once it's re-opened will get you suspended.  

 

[sead]

You didnt put Understanding. hard to learn..

[EnlightenedAtheist]

On 3/20/2018 at 10:07 AM, greenchair said:

I teach only speaking and listening. 

Part of speaking and listening is phonetic sounds and pronunciation, which leads to reading which leads to writing which leads to grammar which leads to whole understanding of a language. 

 

That's interesting. You go from "phonetics" and pronunciation to reading and writing? How do you deal then with the tens of thousands of irregular spellings that do not match pronunciation with the letters that are supposed to represent them --aka what you call "phonetics"? 

[EnlightenedAtheist]

2 hours ago, sead said:

You didnt put Understanding. hard to learn..

We assume that Thai can understand (comprehend, aka read) in their own language. If they are challenged in that skills, this should be dealt in Thai which would be most expedient. 

[EnlightenedAtheist]

On 3/19/2018 at 1:44 PM, Johnniey said:

Ever head of multi-tasking?

 

I wanted to learn Thai for a multitude of reasons.  I would say who wants to remain illiterate? not able to understand signs, read the local news, talk to their neighbours, tell the barber what you want, explain the kind of massage you like, how you like you food, taking your car to the garage, talking to your kids' teachers, talking with monks, everyday normal things.

I --and I bet many foreigners-- have very little interest in learning Thai because we don't foresee ever having a worthwhile conversation with MOST Thai that cannot speak English. There is no possible common ground with MOST of those. I say conversation, not a soliloquy, btw. However, the ones who could be malleable surely will have understood the importance and the benefits of learning English. It is free in most public schools, although the quality of the teaching varies greatly I am sure. They could have learned when they were young. We did not. I have other things to do in my life that to learn this. Beside, they use a dialect when they want us out of the loop anyway. 

[gamesgplayemail]

7 hours ago, EnlightenedAtheist said:

I --and I bet many foreigners-- have very little interest in learning Thai because we don't foresee ever having a worthwhile conversation with MOST Thai that cannot speak English. There is no possible common ground with MOST of those. I say conversation, not a soliloquy, btw. However, the ones who could be malleable surely will have understood the importance and the benefits of learning English. It is free in most public schools, although the quality of the teaching varies greatly I am sure. They could have learned when they were young. We did not. I have other things to do in my life that to learn this. Beside, they use a dialect when they want us out of the loop anyway. 

 

 

I agree. I speak Thai quite fluently, can read and write also, totally useless, except to show to 99% foreigners that I am smarter than them :-)

In Thai or in English, conversation with Thai are totally useless anyway...

 

 

 

 

[Kieran00001]

On 21/03/2018 at 4:00 PM, EnlightenedAtheist said:

That's interesting. You go from "phonetics" and pronunciation to reading and writing? How do you deal then with the tens of thousands of irregular spellings that do not match pronunciation with the letters that are supposed to represent them --aka what you call "phonetics"? 

 

Phonetics is all the sounds that letters can make, not just the most common ones.  And we deal with it systematically, teaching the most common first and then the alternatives and finally the unusual spellings, the same way that native speaking children learn to read and write, largely they just have to remember.

[EnlightenedAtheist]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Phonetics is all the sounds that letters can make, not just the most common ones.  And we deal with it systematically, teaching the most common first and then the alternatives and finally the unusual spellings, the same way that native speaking children learn to read and write, largely they just have to remember.

Thank you.

 

I don't think I asked what was "phonetics". I have a degree in linguistics. 

 

You are correct. It is an exercise in rote memorization, but a dreadful exercise with 205 different ways to spell 44 phonemes. For vowels alone, the possibilities for some can be as many as 13, 12, 11, and  10 different spellings, ... but, here in Thailand, it would be a much longer and inefficient process since the learner does not have all of the time and the support that a mother, a class full of English-speaking kids, other family members, TV and writing,... can provide. There is a lot less motivation to learn English as well. There must be a better and more efficient way because the normal way (mother to kid interaction, to name just one) is highly difficult to offer (one-on-one is expensive). The alternatives are less expensive, but less efficient. And we know how long it takes learners to learn with the quickest methods, imagine 1/2 or 1/3 or likely 1/4 less efficient methods. There must be a better way.

Edited March 22, 2018 by EnlightenedAtheist