Online Teaching

[phetpeter]

If you are working for an oversea company teaching students overseas, and are using internet base to do so, is not illegal in Thailand. 1, You are not taking work in Thailand away from a Thai, 2, You are not working in Thailand. 3, You are not working for a Thai based company, and 4, you are not receiving payment in Thailand. If that was the case a man working contracts in the oil fields in Oman, but, lives here in Thailand with his Thai wife. Must also be breaking the law too! Because he contacts and details work to his staff over the net! When at home?

[Loaded]

If you are working for an oversea company teaching students overseas, and are using internet base to do so, is not illegal in Thailand. 1, You are not taking work in Thailand away from a Thai, 2, You are not working in Thailand. 3, You are not working for a Thai based company, and 4, you are not receiving payment in Thailand. If that was the case a man working contracts in the oil fields in Oman, but, lives here in Thailand with his Thai wife. Must also be breaking the law too! Because he contacts and details work to his staff over the net! When at home?

Lol

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Loaded]

I think I have made it quite clear that I had a work permit when I was working in Thailand. See my post above. Thanks.

But not for teaching via the internet from Thailand. You didn't make that clear, did you?

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Loaded]

Great, isn't it.
 
Be employed remotely by a non-Thai company, that has no business with Thais or Thailand, paid into a non-Thai bank account and declare the income and pay the tax in your home nation, while doing it by yourself in your own property. 

Nobody declares their income from internet teaching in their home country - spin it as much as you want you are working illegally

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[duanebigsby]

1 minute ago, Loaded said:

Nobody declares their income from internet teaching in their home country - spin it as much as you want you are working illegally

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Jump up and down, scream louder, stick your fingers in yours ears while going "NaNaNa Nana, the Thai labour department nor immigration give a rat"s a%% about teaching online.

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, Loaded said:

Nobody declares their income from internet teaching in their home country - spin it as much as you want you are working illegally

 

 

I'm neither working, nor working illegally.

 

A good friend of mine is American and... is employed by a non-Thai company to work remotely, in a system that does not include any Thais or has any connection to Thailand, he is paid into his American bank account and is taxed on his income by the US Internal Revenue Service. He does it alone in the living room of the condo he owns and the money never leaves America (it goes into a saving's account).

 

 

Nothing illegal about that.

 

Sorry that it upsets you, and that you cannot find one case..... one case where anybody was arrested. Though that's obvious. Because it's not illegal. 

[Happy Grumpy]

1 hour ago, duanebigsby said:

Jump up and down, scream louder, stick your fingers in yours ears while going "NaNaNa Nana

 

The measure of a man is how he reacts to being wrong.

 

 

Poor Loaded isn't faring too well. 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

The measure of a man is how he reacts to being wrong.

 

 

Poor Loaded isn't faring too well. 

Just about every teacher has broken the law out here by Loaded's rather strict definition- quite possibly Loaded himself- because it is common practice to work during the work permit application process.

 

If this is the case, turn yourself in immediately.  Don't take a crooked grin and goggle eyes as an answer: insist that you are placed in chains immediately, thereafter to be transferred to IDC by the next available conveyance.

[youreavinalaff]

15 hours ago, Loaded said:

But not for teaching via the internet from Thailand. You didn't make that clear, did you?

Sent from my CPH1701 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

What part of "when I was working in Thailand" don't you understand?

[Loaded]

A lot of sensitive crims on this thread - get legal.

 

 

 

 

[pearciderman]

15 hours ago, Happy Grumpy said:

Sorry that it upsets you, and that you cannot find one case..... one case where anybody was arrested. Though that's obvious. Because it's not illegal.

 

Parliament's famous Salmon Act of 1986 states that it's illegal to hold a salmon under suspicious circumstances. Sounds fishy, but it's true.

 

Bikers may not lift feet from pedals, as it might result in a loss of control. This practical law was created in 1892 as a way to protect riders.

 

And a special one that relates to here

 

Thailand: You Can’t Leave the House Without Wearing Underwear

While this is one of the most common laws that expats like to chuckle at when they visit the region, few understand why it was created. In all likelihood, this has to do with hygiene purposes in bathhouses or public decency laws surrounding nudity.

 

Ever heard of anyone having been arrested for leaving the house with no underwear on? No! But that does not make it legal.

 

You really do seem to have a problem telling the difference between not enforced and legal.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[SlyAnimal]

So many silly laws that are selectively enforced, which in a cash economy just creates the perfect environment for corruption to flourish.

 

As mentioned above, almost all teachers are required to start working before their work permit is even applied for, let alone actually issued.

Volunteer work requiring a work permit means that so many things could potentially be considered illegal if you annoyed the wrong person.

Speaking of annoying the wrong person, did any of you see the article about the vendor selling water pistols that was arrested for selling war weapons?  That's the sort of BS that you can encounter here if you annoy the wrong person.

Which is pretty much the only way that you'd encounter any problems while working online from home, if you annoy someone who then complains to the police.  Same thing goes for working with out a work permit or proper visa (Unless you're black of course, as then the police will chase you due to your skin colour).

[Johnniey]

7 hours ago, SlyAnimal said:

Which is pretty much the only way that you'd encounter any problems while working online from home, if you annoy someone who then complains to the police.  Same thing goes for working with out a work permit or proper visa

Which it is imperative to find a "poo yai" as soon as possible when living in Thailand for the long-term.

It is a hierarchical society and often comes down to the size of your "poo yais".

 

But be aware, these "poo yais" change, as all things do. 10+ years ago, I was involved in an court case. Luckily the son in law of my boss was the head of police. Then I had to wait a few months as he became a senator. Then the Taksin government was overthrown so I lost! 

Another time, I worked for a bigger police guy and then the army took control. 

[Johnniey]

On 07/04/2018 at 8:59 AM, Loaded said:

A lot of sensitive crims on this thread - get legal.

 

 

 

 

 When you live here a while, you'll learn that law, and law enforcement in Thailand are two very different things.

[Scott]

3 hours ago, Johnniey said:

 When you live here a while, you'll learn that law, and law enforcement in Thailand are two very different things.

He's lived here a long time and been a positive, contributor to this form for a long time.  

 

 

[The manic]

On 3/19/2018 at 9:08 AM, Loaded said:

Most online teaching in Thailand is illegal.

 

The teacher works in Thailand without the required non-immigrant visa and work permit. The teacher doesn't declare their income to the Thai tax authorities.

 

The Chinese company earns income from their overseas operations in Thailand. They fail to provide the required visas and work permit for their staff. They avoid Thai tax on their revenues. They don't have a Thai school license. I could go on.

 

It won't continue for much longer once the Thai government realizes what's happening under their noses.

 

 

Nah. Nobody cares or knows....use a VPN..keep a low profile.

[attrayant]

On 4/7/2018 at 8:59 AM, Loaded said:

A lot of sensitive crims on this thread - get legal.

 

Is what you're suggesting even possible?  How can somebody in Thailand get a business visa and work permit when both their customers and employer are not in Thailand?

[Happy Grumpy]

^ why?

 

There's nothing illegal about being remotely employed by a foreign company (non-Thai), dealing with foreigners (non-Thai), in foreign locations (not in Thailand) , while being paid (and paying the tax) in your home country, and that money staying there, while in your own property while happening to be here.

[Happy Grumpy]

Just now, attrayant said:

How can somebody in Thailand get a business visa and work permit when both their customers and employer are not in Thailand?

It can't, because it doesn't need to. 

 

 

If they were needed, the system would be set up (have been set up), and thousands and thousands would pay the money for registration etc. and tax for money paid into Thai accounts. But nope, not needed. :)

[phetpeter]

I will have to be careful next time wifey asks me to go to Tesco! and pick up shopping for the neighbour, I am working, I will have to tell her I will sit in the coffee shop while she does the shopping, as I don't have a WP, plus its a job that Thai's can do! plus no more housework, ironing or cooking. I have to obey the laws of the land!

[attrayant]

32 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

It can't, because it doesn't need to.

 

I agree, but since Loaded made the recommendation to "get legal", I am hoping he'll come back to fill in the blanks.

[Scott]

Years ago, I was doing some writing for a magazine and decided that Thailand would be a nice place to do so.   The research was done, it was a matter of just getting it written.   The magazine and the article was not based in Thailand.    I was paid outside the country, but I was told to get a non-B and a work permit.  

 

At that time both were much easier than now.   But that was the instructions from the Embassy where the non-B was granted.  

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, Scott said:

Years ago, I was doing some writing for a magazine and decided that Thailand would be a nice place to do so.   The research was done, it was a matter of just getting it written.   The magazine and the article was not based in Thailand.    I was paid outside the country, but I was told to get a non-B and a work permit.  

 

At that time both were much easier than now.   But that was the instructions from the Embassy where the non-B was granted.  

 

Back to the overall discussion, seems to me that several contributors are conveniently omitting one point; the person is physically located in Thailand when they do the work.

 

 

[Scott]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

Back to the overall discussion, seems to me that several contributors are conveniently omitting one point; the person is physically located in Thailand when they do the work.

 

 

I think you have pretty much nailed it with that post.   My past experience and my discussions with several immigration officers (informally--as I knew them as parents of children at our school), is that it is illegal to work in the country without a work permit.  

One immigration officer said that they generally give such people a pass, provided they are otherwise legal, but technically it is against the rules.    The ones that they do target are those working in an office or central location, where it is more like a business.  

 

 

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

Years ago, I was doing some writing for a magazine and decided that Thailand would be a nice place to do so.   The research was done, it was a matter of just getting it written.   The magazine and the article was not based in Thailand.    I was paid outside the country, but I was told to get a non-B and a work permit.  

 

Finally something we can get our teeth into.  From what I recall six years ago when I got myself set up to start teaching, there was a small mountain of paperwork required from the employer.  Things like certification of a certain minimum amount of local capital, employment contract, signatures from directors and so on.  Had I not had a school HR person doing this for me, I surely would have drowned in all the paperwork.  Since you were basically a foreign correspondent rather than a teacher, were all those same documents required?  Here they are:-

 

The applicant has to submit the following documents:

• 2 inches photo
• medical certificate
• original passport
• letter of employment
• certificate of degree
• address in Thailand

The employer has to provide the following:

• company certificate and objectives
• list of shareholders
• application for VAT
• withholding tax of the company
• financial statement
• photocopy of the director’s passport and work permit with signature affixed
• office map
• letter of employment stating position and salary of applicant
• employment agreement

 

The red items are those that my last employer (DC Government) would not have been willing or able to provide.  What would the Thai labor office do without them, just say "okay never mind"?  And what about needing a degree?  Not all jobs in other countries require a degree.

 

It's hard to believe that I would need to go traipsing back and forth between Thailand and Washington to get a forgotten signature or redo a piece of paperwork.  There must be a fast-track process for certain skilled professionals who need to start working the day they enter the country, because you can't be sitting around for weeks while your employer pays you, waiting for your work permit to be issued.

 

I'm not sure if ThaiEmbassy-dot-com is authoritative, but here's what it says:

 

"To legally work in Thailand, a foreigner must apply for a work permit. Work permit is a legal document that states a foreigner’s position, current occupation, or job description and the Thai company he is working with. It also serves as a license to perform a job or an occupation allowed for foreigners inside Thailand."

 

"...and the Thai company he is working with".  I note that photography appears in the list of prohibited occupations.  Surely foreign correspondents have come here to take pictures before.  A brief search on Amazon for photography books of Thailand brings up sixteen results on the first page and fifteen of them don't appear to be Thai authors, based on the names.  How would they have gotten their work permit?  The only answer that makes sense is that the rules are for photographers working in Thailand for Thai companies and providing services to Thai people, like a wedding photographer or a photographer for the BK Post.

 

The only thing I am trying to say here is that the normal rules we're all used to for working in Thailand, for a Thai company, providing goods or services to Thai people, don't seem to make much sense when neither your employer nor your clients are Thai.

[Happy Grumpy]

14 hours ago, Scott said:

But that was the instructions from the Embassy where the non-B was granted.  

 

An Embassy??

 

Outside of Thailand?

 

 

 

 

 

What did the Ministry of Labor and Dept. of Immigration say when you arrived here and took this information to them? 

 

Did you not go, or did they laugh at you when you did? 

 

 

 

[Scott]

47 minutes ago, Happy Grumpy said:

 

An Embassy??

 

Outside of Thailand?

 

 

 

 

 

What did the Ministry of Labor and Dept. of Immigration say when you arrived here and took this information to them? 

 

Did you not go, or did they laugh at you when you did? 

 

 

 

No, I did not get laughed at by the MOL or Immigration.   I contacted Labor and was told to apply for a work permit before the Non B expired.   In the meantime, I went to work for an Embassy program and that was covered under a bilateral agreement between the two countries, which did not require a work permit (just a non-B); just as Thai embassy employees overseas do not generally have to have a work permit for the country in which they work.

 

But, remember that was years ago and people could get a work permit without having an actual Thai employer who applies on your behalf.  

 

Would I have gotten into trouble?   Most likely not.   At that time there was no problem in getting a visa or endless back-to-back visas.   I had no problem in getting the non-B based on nothing more than a letter that I was working on a project for the magazine.  

 

I don't even have a clue now how one would apply for a WP without having an employer.   I am sure it's possible, but I would think it would not be easy.

 

The current climate toward foreigners residing long term in Thailand is much more regulated than it was then.  

 

[Loaded]

I'm sure the law would expect 'contractors' to set up their own Thai company to process tax, work permits and visa extensions if they don't have a Thai employer.

 

It still seems to me beyond mad that people on this thread are still arguing that working in Thailand as a teacher doesn't require the appropriate visa and work permit.

[Loaded]

21 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

I agree, but since Loaded made the recommendation to "get legal", I am hoping he'll come back to fill in the blanks.

If I filled in all the blanks on this thread, my knuckles would be very bruised.