Phuket lifeguard crisis leads to request for US ‘Level 3’ Travel Advisory warning

[rooster59]

Phuket lifeguard crisis leads to request for US ‘Level 3’ Travel Advisory warning 

The Phuket News

 

A lifeguard watches over tourists in the water in this file photo from last year. Photo: Tanyaluk Sakoot
 

PHUKET: The International Surf Lifesaving Association has issued a resolution to formally request the US Department of State to issue a “Level Three Advisory” warning American tourists of the dangers of swimming in Phuket without trained lifeguards on the beaches.

 

Under the US State Department travel advisory notices as revised in January, a “Level 3” advisory is rated as: “Reconsider Travel: Avoid travel due to serious risks to safety and security. The Department of State provides additional advice for travelers in these areas in the Travel Advisory. Conditions in any country may change at any time.” (See here.)

 

In a copy of the resolution obtained by The Phuket News, the ISLA resolution notes, “The Board of Directors of The International Surf Lifesaving Association requests that the United States Department of State issue a Level Three Travel Advisory advising US Citizens of the extreme danger that exists in the ocean waters surrounding Phuket, Thailand, and that no ocean lifeguard services are provided.

Full story: https://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket-lifeguard-crisis-leads-to-request-for-us-level-3-travel-advisory-warning-66472.php#yOO0FjPxyPJiBghW.97

 

 

 

-- © Copyright Phuket News 2018-03-24

 

[Samui Bodoh]

Wah! This is an interesting little story...

 

Life guards, The US government travel advisory system, a 13 million Baht contract awarded quietly, warnings from officials both on and off the record, orders from the Phuket Governor which seem to have been ignored, lack of certified guards, etc, etc, etc.

 

This has the makings of a truly fascinating cock up!

 

And, God forbid(!), if a tourist should die or even be severely injured from swimming on a beach where there should have been a life guard but wasn't and it makes the international media, it'll get even more... interesting.

 

Watch this space...

 

[Thian]

Do they also warn for dangerous buses and boats?

[smedly]

what level is pattaya where there are none 

[johng]

Pattaya swimmers must also watch out for regular "algae blooms" and "Mersey trout"
as well as the occasional rip tides and high waves.

[Damaz6052]

On Wednesday the police and army came to Kamala to arrest a member of a local family for organising life guards on Kamala Beach. Apparently he was in the US talking to the ISLA and asking for their help in training life guards. They came to lock him up for violating the contract which has been awarded to some high up official in Patong. Seems the new contract holder can't find any life guards as yet....

[Lupatria]

Another blow to the paradise island after the local "Miami" was declared in another location.

[johng]

"Miami" was declared in another location.

The other location being non other than "Pattaya" previously dubbed
"A world class family resort" and
"The Riviera of Thailand"

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This has the makings of a truly fascinating cock up!

It stinks of cronyism, greed and corruption, not to mention that other "attribute" very common here..........stupidity!

[Ossy]

5 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Under the US State Department travel advisory notices as revised in January, a “Level 3” advisory is rated as: “Reconsider Travel: Avoid travel due to serious risks to safety and security. The Department of State provides additional advice for travelers in these areas in the Travel Advisory. Conditions in any country may change at any time.”

Unless I'm being extraordinarily thick and only too aware of the 'Conditions in any country . . . ' warning, this concise statement would seem to me to apply to travel security, rather than to swimming. This entire report and the reported ISLA level-3 warning request is riddled with anomalies and, as SB so ably posts, more than a smack of incompetence, too. A potential cock-up, indeed, but you can take it from me . . . drowning is no laughing matter.

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, johng said:

Pattaya swimmers must also watch out for regular "algae blooms" and "Mersey trout"
as well as the occasional rip tides and high waves.

You forgot to mention the "sharks" on the side-walk !!!

[AhFarangJa]

In the photo the lifeguard is leaning on a flag which clearly states no swimming, watching people swimming............

[stevenl]

31 minutes ago, AhFarangJa said:

In the photo the lifeguard is leaning on a flag which clearly states no swimming, watching people swimming............

People are swimming to the right of the flag, and normally there is no swimming in between the flags. Now we don't know where the other flag is, to the right or left :).

[AhFarangJa]

Thanks Stevenl. That makes sense I Guess.

[jerry921]

Level 3 advisory would be totally over the top. These warnings are set for whole countries, sometimes with special levels for areas within a country. Thailand as a whole is set at level 1, "use normal precautions" (there's no level 0). Not swimming in unfamiliar waters when there is no life guard on duty would fall under "normal precautions", so that is all that is justified.

 

Within Thailand, the US DoS has a level 3 advisory for Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces due to civil unrest. That's the kind of danger these warning levels are designed to warn about. Venezuela, Pakistan and Turkey are level 3 countries.

 

Level 4 countries include Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan etc. Those are places so dangerous that buying a round trip air ticket is a bad bet.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/

Edited March 25, 2018 by jerry921
imploove crality

[NamKangMan]

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

People are swimming to the right of the flag, and normally there is no swimming in between the flags. Now we don't know where the other flag is, to the right or left :).

 

Maybe that's the problem.

 

There is only enough money in the budget for one flag, so people don't know where to swim.  

[exppenang]

On 3/25/2018 at 2:17 PM, jerry921 said:

Level 3 advisory would be totally over the top. These warnings are set for whole countries, sometimes with special levels for areas within a country. Thailand as a whole is set at level 1, "use normal precautions" (there's no level 0). Not swimming in unfamiliar waters when there is no life guard on duty would fall under "normal precautions", so that is all that is justified.

 

Within Thailand, the US DoS has a level 3 advisory for Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces due to civil unrest. That's the kind of danger these warning levels are designed to warn about. Venezuela, Pakistan and Turkey are level 3 countries.

 

Level 4 countries include Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, Afghanistan etc. Those are places so dangerous that buying a round trip air ticket is a bad bet.

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/

Sometimes people have to be called out, like Jerry921. Almost everything he claims to "know" here is wrong.

"Warnings are set for whole countries":  WRONG - warnings can and often do apply only to certain areas of a country, as in his own example of Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla.

"Not swimming in unfamiliar waters when there is no life guard on duty would fall under "normal precautions", so that is all that is justified." WRONG - Phuket has some of the most deadly "flash rip" currents in the world. These currents appear suddenly, move unpredictably, and then disappear.

"the US DoS has a level 3 advisory for Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces due to civil unrest. That's the kind of danger these warning levels are designed to warn about." WRONG: Compare the number of drowning deaths in Phuket to the number of bombing deaths in the far south - Phuket's drownings FAR exceed the number of deaths from bombing."

A little research and a few facts go a long way ...

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phuket-expat-deaths-police-list-reveals-drownings-crash-fatalities-17715/

[jerry921]

2 hours ago, exppenang said:

Sometimes people have to be called out, like Jerry921. Almost everything he claims to "know" here is wrong.

"Warnings are set for whole countries":  WRONG - warnings can and often do apply only to certain areas of a country, as in his own example of Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla.

"Not swimming in unfamiliar waters when there is no life guard on duty would fall under "normal precautions", so that is all that is justified." WRONG - Phuket has some of the most deadly "flash rip" currents in the world. These currents appear suddenly, move unpredictably, and then disappear.

"the US DoS has a level 3 advisory for Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces due to civil unrest. That's the kind of danger these warning levels are designed to warn about." WRONG: Compare the number of drowning deaths in Phuket to the number of bombing deaths in the far south - Phuket's drownings FAR exceed the number of deaths from bombing."

A little research and a few facts go a long way ...

http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phuket-expat-deaths-police-list-reveals-drownings-crash-fatalities-17715/

That warnings are set for whole countries is indisputably correct. Look at the list in the link provided, they are all whole countries. How can you claim warnings are not set for whole countries? There is nothing on the list that is not a whole country. When the state department wants to set a warning for an area within a country, it does so as a note in the whole-country entry. At best you're arguing semantics, and that in no way justifies your overreaction to my post.

 

It's really total bullshit to claim a statement is wrong and cite the following sentence that qualifies the statement as evidence. Anyway, anyone can see it's correct - by visiting the link provided (which would fall under the category of "doing a little research").

 

If the state department uses the list to warn about a danger, and I give that example, and say that's the kind of danger they mean to use the list to warn about, how can you say that's wrong? It's what they did. It's a fact, indisputable. You're in effect claiming the state department is misusing their own list by warning about a danger you don't see as dangerous and not warning about a danger you see as more dangerous.

 

Well, I'll let the state department sort out who's the winner to this discussion, because I don't think you're rational. Go ahead and take it up with them and beg them to issue a rip-current warning and see what response you get.

 

My considered opinion is that warning about swimming without a lifeguard would not meet their criteria for something they should warn about.

By the way, here's a list of 10 dangerous beaches of the world. Number one on the list, and three of the ten, are in Australia. And the state department's warning for Australia does not warn about any of them. Obviously you can and will argue with this list, because Phuket isn't on it at all, but I chose it from among other links because it was about beaches and not just about swimming, for example, in the Nile river. (which was the number one danger on a different list - and there's no state department warning for swimming in the Nile under the country entry for Egypt either).

 

 

 

[the guest]

As most tourists coming to Thailand are not from the US, why would this concern Thailand?

[nkg]

3 hours ago, the guest said:

As most tourists coming to Thailand are not from the US, why would this concern Thailand?

 

Citizens of other countries will read about the level 3 travel advisory and draw their own conclusions.

 

This news brings an international focus on Phuket's lifeguard problem. Now it has been publicised by a major government, other governments may choose to follow suit. If China decided to issue a similar travel advisory, it would have a huge negative effect on Phuket's tourism industry.

[jerry921]

5 hours ago, nkg said:

 

Citizens of other countries will read about the level 3 travel advisory and draw their own conclusions.

 

This news brings an international focus on Phuket's lifeguard problem. Now it has been publicised by a major government, other governments may choose to follow suit. If China decided to issue a similar travel advisory, it would have a huge negative effect on Phuket's tourism industry.

Note that the news is simply that The International Surf Lifesaving Association has issued a resolution to formally request the US Department of State to issue a “Level Three Advisory” warning. The State Department hasn't issued it, as of a check of the Thailand Advisory on 3/28/18, it reads:

 

Exercise normal precautions in Thailand. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory.

Reconsider travel to:

• Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces due to civil unrest.

Read the Safety and Security section on the country information page.

If you decide to travel to Thailand:

• Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.

• Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.

• Review the Crime and Safety Reports for Thailand.

• U.S. citizens who travel abroad should always have a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler’s Checklist.

Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla Provinces

Periodic violence directed mostly at government interests by a domestic insurgency continues to affect security in the southernmost provinces of Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla. U.S. citizens are at risk of death or injury due to the possibility of indiscriminate attacks in public places. Martial law is in force in this region.

The U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in these provinces as U.S government employees must obtain special authorization to travel to these provinces.

 

Here is the direct link for the Thailand Advisory, which will differ from the above in the future when DoS updates the advisory:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/thailand-travel-advisory.html

 

 

 

 

[jerry921]

And, for the benefit of anyone who mistakenly assumed exppenag had crediblity because of the emotion he put in his post, here is the relevant FAQ from the DoS consular information FAQ page https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/about-our-new-products/consular-information-faq.html

 

Q: What happened to Regional Travel Alerts? Are regional trends no longer tracked by the Department of State?

A: The safety and security of U.S. citizens abroad is a top priority. When transitioning from Travel Warnings and Travel Alerts, we did away with Regional Travel Alerts so that each country has a Travel Advisory with the most relevant information for that particular country. 

Information previously covered in Regional Travel Alerts is included in appropriate Travel Advisories or on country information webpages found on travel.state.gov. Travel Advisories allow us to be more specific about where there are conditions that might pose risks to U.S. citizens and what actions U.S. citizens should take. An interactive map visually depicts Travel Advisories around the world.

 

(underlining mine)

[the guest]

I find this interesting

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/germany-travel-advisory.html

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/italy-travel-advisory.html

 

Question, what do both countries have in common?

[nkg]

16 hours ago, jerry921 said:

Note that the news is simply that The International Surf Lifesaving Association has issued a resolution to formally request the US Department of State to issue a “Level Three Advisory” warning. The State Department hasn't issued it

 

 

 

 

 

You make a good point.

[observer90210]

Time to wake up boys...the world is starting to issue warnings on the hazards of holidays in Thailand..many European nations recommend to totally avoid Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces (many EU travel insurance firms refuse to insure travellers on these regions)

 

..more warnings, that would highly nail down tourism revenue could follow for instance the unsafe roads, polluted beaches,  the muggings in Sin City an so on.....it is a pity as Thailand is a lovely country with many wonderful people. ... But then who cares ? The new generation of wealthy Chinese, Indian or Other Asian Nation tourists,  spend their money elsewhere perhaps ? ..But for how long ?..

[exppenang]

When you don't know what you are talking about, but you HAVE to be right like Jerry 921:

 

"Information previously covered in Regional Travel Alerts is included in appropriate Travel Advisories or on country information webpages found on travel.state.gov. Travel Advisories allow us to be more specific about where there are conditions that might pose risks to U.S. citizens and what actions U.S. citizens should take."

 

There used to be "Regional Travel Alerts", they were done away with. Now, that information is included in "appropriate Travel Advisories". A level 3 REGIONAL example:

 

"Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory.

Reconsider travel to:

• Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla provinces due to civil unrest."
  
  So Thailand outside of these four provinces is at level 1. These 4 provinces are at level 3.
  
  All that has changed is that there are no more warnings called, "Regional Travel Alerts", instead, that information is included in Travel ADVISORIES and allows them to be "more specific about where there are conditions that might pose risks."
  
  So let's be clear. The US Dept of State can and DOES issue region-specific travel advisories, just like they have for Yala, Pattani, Narathiwat, and Songkhla.
  
  "It is better to be thought an idiot, than to express your opinion and remove all doubt."

 

 

[jerry921]

Exppenang, you're simply twisting semantics in order to disagree with me. The advisory is issued for the country, a paragraph within an advisory is not the advisory, it's a part of the advisory. So it's not incorrect to say that advisories are issued for whole countries, as you claimed. Yes, they put regional notes inside the advisories, and the regional notes mention language like "avoid travel", and I noted that in my original comment on this thread. But what they call the advisory is the whole thing. The essence of your disagreement with me is just terminology and naming.

 

My original point was that there won't be a level 3 advisory issued for all of Thailand on the basis of a regional issue. That is not wrong, or really even debatable.

 

And my opinion is that they aren't going to add a note to the country advisory telling people to "avoid travel" to Phuket because it's dangerous to swim there without a lifeguard. I know you don't like that opinion, but it's mine. Feel free to disagree. You can even hold your breath hoping I'll be proven wrong. Go ahead.

 

Even though my opinion of you is perhaps even lower than your opinion of me, I don't need to engage in personal attacks. You've got your cause, go ahead and call on the US state department to change it's advisory. You can even write them an angry letter. Good luck to you.

[exppenang]

Jerry921 how many hours, days, or years have you volunteered as a certified ocean lifeguard on Phuket's beaches. How many rescues have you made? How many lives have you saved? What is your level of certification?

Here's my info:

Years as a certified ocean lifeguard on Phuket's Beaches - 7 years
Certification level - Marine Safety Officer - International Surf Lifesaving Association
Number of rescues on Phuket's beaches: Over 100

Sorry, but you are just a fool who just likes to talk about something you know nothing about. Prove to me otherwise and I will apologize to you.