Women’s seminar hears call for legalised abortion

[stephen tracy]

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Shapiro is not misrepresenting anyone. He is pointing out the bitter irony of a woman who has clearly gone beyond the legal time frame for an abortion advocating for the killing of unwanted babies.

 

You defend for her right to abort her child within "a legal and compassionate time frame". Legal or not, chopping up a living human in the womb seems anything but compassionate. Unfortunately, we can't ask the opinion of countless children who have had no choice suffer this fate.

A fetus in the early stages of pregnancy is not chopped up. And once again, at the end of the day, it's absolutely none of your business what a woman does with her own body. You have absolutely know right whatsoever to dictate to others on such an issue. And your views on a woman being forced to give birth to a child as a result of a rape are totally abhorrent.

[rkidlad]

9 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Shapiro is not misrepresenting anyone. He is pointing out the bitter irony of a woman who has clearly gone beyond the legal time frame for an abortion advocating for the killing of unwanted babies.

 

You defend for her right to abort her child within "a legal and compassionate time frame". Legal or not, chopping up a living human in the womb seems anything but compassionate. Unfortunately, we can't ask the opinion of countless children who have had no choice suffer this fate.

Chopping up? You do know what an abortion is, right? 

 

And yes, he is misrepresenting her idea. She doesn’t wanna kill her baby a minute before the kid’s birth. She wants the right to do it within the legally agreed timeframe. It’s ‘completely’ legal in most of the US

 

Ultimately, it’s a woman’s choice. I wouldn’t want anyone, let alone the opposite sex, telling me what I couldn’t do or had to do with my body. 

 

If you don’t like abortion and you worry someone might do it to your seed, be careful when partaking in sex. Be safe and double bag it. Be sure the person you’re having sex with is also being safe and taking the necessary precautions. 

 

If you also don’t like people you don’t know having abortions, petition so you can pay more in tax. Petition so your extra tax money goes towards taking care of these unwanted pregnancies. Pay extra so you can pay for psychologists to determine if these mothers are fit to raise these kids. If they’re not fit, you can pay even more to have them adopted, etc. 

 

Last bit - how to you feel about circumcision? 

[poanoi]

8 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Proper sex education and access to affordable contraception 

I'm all for giving women control of their bodies, but religious nut jobs are not stopping them from either using contraceptives or insisting their partners do so.

 

Getting rid of an unwanted baby is a traumatic tribute to failure and a lack of responsibility.

 

Rather than use abortion as a form of contraception, which is in effect what is done in many "developed" countries, Thailand might be better advised to ramp up its sex education, conception and family planning facilities.

 

Abortion is a dreadfully traumatic business (as I know from personal experience) and prevention is far preferable to the murderous "cure". 
 

err, no, you dont understand. abortion is undesirable,

but its 2nd best when prevention failed

[stephen tracy]

7 hours ago, poanoi said:

err, no, you dont understand. abortion is undesirable,

but its 2nd best when prevention failed

Totally agree. And I'm curious to know what Krataiboy meant by this: "Getting rid of an unwanted baby is a traumatic tribute to failure and a lack of responsibility."  First off I have no clue what a "traumatic tribute to failure" means. And is being raped and aborting the fetus a traumatic tribute to failure? After all, he's made it clear that women should be forced to give birth even if the pregnancy is the result of a rape. I suppose to him a woman getting pregnant from a rape is "a lack of responsibility" on the part of the woman. I expect he was one of posters in the recent Songkran groping thread that blamed the victim for being groped/sexually assaulted because of what they were wearing.

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

You think a woman should be forced to give birth to a child as a result of a rape? An abortion would be far less traumatic. You can debate the rights of an unborn fetus all you like, but if I were a woman and someone else tried to dictate to me what I can and cannot do with my own body, I would happily tell them to go and fist themselves. It's easy to harp on about the rights of a fetus when it's not you carrying the result of a rape in your womb. At the end of the day, it's no ones business but the woman in question.

I agree that an abortion may be the only viable choice for some women who conceive as a result of rape. On the other hand there are others who opts to have their baby and feel, as one of them put it,  they "get something beautiful from something terrible".

[stephen tracy]

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I agree that an abortion may be the only viable choice for some women who conceive as a result of rape. On the other hand there are others who opts to have their baby and feel, as one of them put it,  they "get something beautiful from something terrible".

Yeah nice. Carrying your rapists baby for nine months and then after it's born having the pleasure of staring into the eyes of your rapist every day must be such a beautiful thing. You speak as though rape is no big deal. Are you a woman? Have you ever been raped?  Or do you think rape is not so bad? You have no clue what you're talking about. Apart from backward religious fanatics, I would love to see how women in general react to attitudes like yours. Pity there isn't more females on TV.

[Krataiboy]

49 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

And once again, at the end of the day, . You have absolutely know right whatsoever to dictate to others on such an issue. And your views on a woman being forced to give birth to a child as a result of a rape are totally abhorrent.

A fetus in the early stages of pregnancy is not chopped up.

After 12 weeks a baby has grown to the point where has to be dismembered and crushed to remove it from the uterus.

it's absolutely none of your business what a woman does with her own body 

It would be if she were carrying my child. In any case, I have as much right to stand up for unborn children as you have to support the women who decide to abort them.

I accept that forcing a woman to have a rapist's child is likely to be counterproductive in some instances, but in others women who complete their pregnancy love their child as much as any other mother.

[Krataiboy]

43 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

Totally agree. And I'm curious to know what Krataiboy meant by this: "Getting rid of an unwanted baby is a traumatic tribute to failure and a lack of responsibility."  First off I have no clue what a "traumatic tribute to failure" means. And is being raped and aborting the fetus a traumatic tribute to failure? After all, he's made it clear that women should be forced to give birth even if the pregnancy is the result of a rape. I suppose to him a woman getting pregnant from a rape is "a lack of responsibility" on the part of the woman. I expect he was one of posters in the recent Songkran groping thread that blamed the victim for being groped/sexually assaulted because of what they were wearing.

Only a tiny minority of abortions are the result of rape. The vast majority are a caused by the failure of the parties involved to take sensible precautions. This "tribute to failure and irresponsibility" (Got it now?) leads to the trauma of termination, which is considerable for the pregnant woman and even more so for the unborn child.

 

 

[stephen tracy]

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

A fetus in the early stages of pregnancy is not chopped up.

After 12 weeks a baby has grown to the point where has to be dismembered and crushed to remove it from the uterus.

it's absolutely none of your business what a woman does with her own body 

It would be if she were carrying my child. In any case, I have as much right to stand up for unborn children as you have to support the women who decide to abort them.

I accept that forcing a woman to have a rapist's child is likely to be counterproductive in some instances, but in others women who complete their pregnancy love their child as much as any other mother.

First off, 12 weeks is not early, that's leaving it late. Most women abort well before that. In fact many just take the morning-after pill rather take the chance. No, you have no right at all to dictate what women do with their bodies, whether they were raped or otherwise. It's none of your business. If you doubt me, go take a survey of women's opinions on the matter. Do it on Facebook and see how many likes you get.

[stephen tracy]

7 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Only a tiny minority of abortions are the result of rape. The vast majority are a caused by the failure of the parties involved to take sensible precautions. This "tribute to failure and irresponsibility" (Got it now?) leads to the trauma of termination, which is considerable for the pregnant woman and even more so for the unborn child.

 

 

No I don't get it. It's a poor attempt at trying to sound articulate. I had a girlfriend at university who opted for an abortion, and I can assure you she was not traumatized, she was relieved after. What would be very traumatizing would be having a patriarchal backward society telling you that you have to give birth to your rapists child. In parts of the Middle East and North Africa, women who are raped are given the option to marry their rapist. Do you approve of that too? I think someone with your views would be better of living in Yemen rather than Thailand.

[Krataiboy]

12 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

First off, 12 weeks is not early, that's leaving it late. Most women abort well before that. In fact many just take the morning-after pill rather take the chance. No, you have no right at all to dictate what women do with their bodies, whether they were raped or otherwise. It's none of your business. If you doubt me, go take a survey of women's opinions on the matter. Do it on Facebook and see how many likes you get.

We clearly are on different sides of this debate. Unlike you, I believe that a child in the womb has a right to life - and that this right should be denied only in the most extreme situations where an intolerable physical or mental burden would be placed on the mother.

 

Instead, we seem to be reaching the point where free abortion, available up to 24 weeks (by which time, more than half of all babies are developed enough to survive outside the womb) is used increasingly an alternative to responsible sexual behavior and contraception. 

 

A staggering (to me, at least) one in every six pregnancies in Britain is unplanned, according to a study published in the Lancet, and the latest annual abortion figures are the highest for five years at around 200,000. Clearly, something needs to be done - more sex education campaigns, easier access to contraception seem obvious initial measures - to turn the this tragic tide.

 

As a father who vividly recalls the joy a decade ago of seeing scaned images of our first child in my wife's womb, I find it hard to believe there are women, including Hillary Clinton, agitating for no restrictions on the stage of pregnancy at which an unborn child can be killed. I would like to think this is one reason Donald Trump garnered more women's votes than she did.

 

Your anecdote about your university girlfriend's trauma-free abortion begs more questions than it answers. Who was the child's father - you? If so, did you have a say in her decision to terminate and not find the experience at all traumatizing? And no regrets later? If so, you must both be made of stern stuff.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Krataiboy

[Jingthing]

59 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

We clearly are on different sides of this debate. Unlike you, I believe that a child in the womb has a right to life - and that this right should be denied only in the most extreme situations where an intolerable physical or mental burden would be placed on the mother.

 

Instead, we seem to be reaching the point where free abortion, available up to 24 weeks (by which time, more than half of all babies are developed enough to survive outside the womb) is used increasingly an alternative to responsible sexual behavior and contraception. 

 

A staggering (to me, at least) one in every six pregnancies in Britain is unplanned, according to a study published in the Lancet, and the latest annual abortion figures are the highest for five years at around 200,000. Clearly, something needs to be done - more sex education campaigns, easier access to contraception seem obvious initial measures - to turn the this tragic tide.

 

As a father who vividly recalls the joy a decade ago of seeing scaned images of our first child in my wife's womb, I find it hard to believe there are women, including Hillary Clinton, agitating for no restrictions on the stage of pregnancy at which an unborn child can be killed. I would like to think this is one reason Donald Trump garnered more women's votes than she did.

 

Your anecdote about your university girlfriend's trauma-free abortion begs more questions than it answers. Who was the child's father - you? If so, did you have a say in her decision to terminate and not find the experience at all traumatizing? And no regrets later? If so, you must both be made of stern stuff.

I will address your lies about Hillary Clinton.

No, it's a total lie that Hillary Clinton ever supported as you say --

no restrictions on the stage of pregnancy at which an unborn child can be killed.

Also, it is a total lie that "trump" received the majority of the women's vote. Do you actually believe that lie? Actually "trump" did receive the majority of the WHITE women's vote. Other demographics, definitely not, and totally, definitely not. You've been corrected.

Please stop posting lies, OK? 

If nothing else for your own sake as there are reasonable arguments for your extremist anti-abortion position, but you degrade them massively but posting so many blatant lies.

[Krataiboy]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I will address your lies about Hillary Clinton.

No, it's a total lie that Hillary Clinton ever supported as you say --

no restrictions on the stage of pregnancy at which an unborn child can be killed.

Also, it is a total lie that "trump" received the majority of the women's vote. Do you actually believe that lie? Actually "trump" did receive the majority of the WHITE women's vote. Other demographics, definitely not, and totally, definitely not. You've been corrected.

Please stop posting lies, OK? 

If nothing else for your own sake as there are reasonable arguments for your extremist anti-abortion position, but you degrade them massively but posting so many blatant lies.

The record shows Hillary Clinton voted in Congress against a ban on late-term partial-birth abortions, which in my view amounts to the same thing. She also believes a fetus (by which she of course means an unborn child) has no Constitutional rights because these belong exclusively to the mother.

 

You are correct in pointing out that Trump won the majority white women's vote. My error. Hillary's laid back attitude to taking babies' lives obviously resonated more than Trump's conservative stance on the issue with black, Hispanic and other ethnic women who between them account for six times the US abortion rate for white women.

 

Oh, and if it is "extremist" to campaign against the massacre of millions of unborn children, then I will wear the label with pride.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Krataiboy

[stephen tracy]

14 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

We clearly are on different sides of this debate. Unlike you, I believe that a child in the womb has a right to life - and that this right should be denied only in the most extreme situations where an intolerable physical or mental burden would be placed on the mother.

 

Instead, we seem to be reaching the point where free abortion, available up to 24 weeks (by which time, more than half of all babies are developed enough to survive outside the womb) is used increasingly an alternative to responsible sexual behavior and contraception. 

 

A staggering (to me, at least) one in every six pregnancies in Britain is unplanned, according to a study published in the Lancet, and the latest annual abortion figures are the highest for five years at around 200,000. Clearly, something needs to be done - more sex education campaigns, easier access to contraception seem obvious initial measures - to turn the this tragic tide.

 

As a father who vividly recalls the joy a decade ago of seeing scaned images of our first child in my wife's womb, I find it hard to believe there are women, including Hillary Clinton, agitating for no restrictions on the stage of pregnancy at which an unborn child can be killed. I would like to think this is one reason Donald Trump garnered more women's votes than she did.

 

Your anecdote about your university girlfriend's trauma-free abortion begs more questions than it answers. Who was the child's father - you? If so, did you have a say in her decision to terminate and not find the experience at all traumatizing? And no regrets later? If so, you must both be made of stern stuff.

Yes I was the father. Yes I was consulted about her decision to terminate. Yes, I respected her wishes and agreed with her that it was probably for the best because we were too young and were students with no money and only halfway through our degrees. No, neither of us were "traumatized". It's a big decision but we were both relieved after and there were no regrets.

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

Yes I was the father. Yes I was consulted about her decision to terminate. Yes, I respected her wishes and agreed with her that it was probably for the best because we were too young and were students with no money and only halfway through our degrees. No, neither of us were "traumatized". It's a big decision but we were both relieved after and there were no regrets.

Thank you for filling in blanks. Interesting.

 

I couldn't help noticing that you (and only you) hit the "Like" button on an earlier posting, replying to one of mine, which advised: "If you don’t like abortion. . . be careful when partaking in sex. Be safe and double bag it. Be sure the person you’re having sex with is also being safe and taking the necessary precautions."

 

Why, one feels bound to ask, didn't you practice what the poster you endorsed was preaching while you and your girlfriend were having your fling at university ?

 

Had you done so, there would have been need to for an abortion - albeit, in your case achieved with only with feelings of "relief" and without the regrets and the trauma routinely associated with this procedure.

 

Hopefully, the experience will have taught you a lesson about personal responsibility more valuable than anything you ever learned in the lecture room.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Krataiboy

[stephen tracy]

8 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Thank you for filling in blanks. Interesting.

 

I couldn't help noticing that you (and only you) hit the "Like" button on an earlier posting, replying to one of mine, which advised: "If you don’t like abortion. . . be careful when partaking in sex. Be safe and double bag it. Be sure the person you’re having sex with is also being safe and taking the necessary precautions."

 

Why, one feels bound to ask, didn't you practice what the poster you endorsed was preaching while you and your girlfriend were having your fling at university ?

 

Had you done so, there would have been need to for an abortion - albeit, in your case achieved with only with feelings of "relief" and without the regrets and the trauma routinely associated with this procedure.

 

Hopefully, the experience will have taught you a lesson about personal responsibility more valuable than anything you ever learned in the lecture room.

She was on the pill but had forgotten to take it for a week or so. She didn't tell me this until after the fact. We were just scared young kids really. I pressed like on that because I agreed with you on that point. Better safe than sorry. We don't have to disagree on everything :)

[The manic]

On 3/29/2018 at 3:08 PM, Krataiboy said:

Proper sex education and access to affordable contraception 

I'm all for giving women control of their bodies, but religious nut jobs are not stopping them from either using contraceptives or insisting their partners do so.

 

Getting rid of an unwanted baby is a traumatic tribute to failure and a lack of responsibility.

 

Rather than use abortion as a form of contraception, which is in effect what is done in many "developed" countries, Thailand might be better advised to ramp up its sex education, conception and family planning facilities.

 

Abortion is a dreadfully traumatic business (as I know from personal experience) and prevention is far preferable to the murderous "cure". 
 

No more traumatic than other surgical procedures and not murderous. 

[The manic]

On 3/29/2018 at 11:45 PM, Krataiboy said:

I agree that an abortion may be the only viable choice for some women who conceive as a result of rape. On the other hand there are others who opts to have their baby and feel, as one of them put it,  they "get something beautiful from something terrible".

My friend had 11 abortions. She hated condoms and the pill. She is French and like many women untouched by religious idiocy regarded abortion as a form of birth control and as traumatic as a heavy period. 

[poanoi]

14 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

 is used increasingly an alternative to responsible sexual behavior and contraception. 

no, it isnt as an alternative, its a backup when contraception didnt work.

 

there is far too many unsuitable parents as it is already,

the less children that has to live with them the merrier

[The manic]

9 minutes ago, poanoi said:

no, it isnt as an alternative, its a backup when contraception didnt work.

 

there is far too many unsuitable parents as it is already,

the less children that has to live with them the merrier

In many countries it is just another form of contraception. 

[poanoi]

5 minutes ago, The manic said:

In many countries it is just another form of contraception. 

my only experience is a couple of gf,

they had it once each and was upset and disturbed it had happened to them,

thankfully they could take a pill so it didnt ruin more than a couple of weeks of their lives, and thanks x2 i didnt have to put up with anything,

coz trust me, i'd sooner be dead than dad

Edited March 30, 2018 by poanoi

[metisdead]

An offensive troll post has been removed as well as the inflammatory reply. 

[Krataiboy]

7 hours ago, poanoi said:

i'd sooner be dead than dad

Why, if that's not too personal a question (from a incredibly happy and fulfilled dad with a child of my own and five stepchildren). Just seeing what you have written makes me sad.

[poanoi]

4 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Why, if that's not too personal a question (from a incredibly happy and fulfilled dad with a child of my own and five stepchildren). Just seeing what you have written makes me sad.

my father was such a bully i dont want anything to do with any relation even remotely resemble it, and i think there should be a ban and a heavy screening

against having children. perhaps 50% shouldnt be allowed to have children

Edited March 31, 2018 by poanoi

[Krataiboy]

11 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

She was on the pill but had forgotten to take it for a week or so. She didn't tell me this until after the fact. We were just scared young kids really. I pressed like on that because I agreed with you on that point. Better safe than sorry. We don't have to disagree on everything :)

I rest my case.

[robblok]

On 29/03/2018 at 6:23 PM, stephen tracy said:

The decision is entirely up to the woman who has managed to get pregnant, no one else. No one has the right to dictate that. If it was men that had wombs, you can bet that abortion would be legal everywhere. And certainly in the case of a pregnancy as a result of rape, there should be absolutely no question about legalizing abortion.  

There should be a few rules (I am pro abortion), but there should be some time limits.

[robblok]

12 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Thank you for filling in blanks. Interesting.

 

I couldn't help noticing that you (and only you) hit the "Like" button on an earlier posting, replying to one of mine, which advised: "If you don’t like abortion. . . be careful when partaking in sex. Be safe and double bag it. Be sure the person you’re having sex with is also being safe and taking the necessary precautions."

 

Why, one feels bound to ask, didn't you practice what the poster you endorsed was preaching while you and your girlfriend were having your fling at university ?

 

Had you done so, there would have been need to for an abortion - albeit, in your case achieved with only with feelings of "relief" and without the regrets and the trauma routinely associated with this procedure.

 

Hopefully, the experience will have taught you a lesson about personal responsibility more valuable than anything you ever learned in the lecture room.

I view you a bit as a religious nut, wanting to tell others what to do with their body. This is an other remark that is way off base. Anti conception is not 100% safe it can fail you can take precautions and still fail.

 

I too have had experience with abortion, we practiced safe sex something went wrong and she got pregnant. The moment we knew she as over time we got a pil and it was done. (must have been maximal week 5 or so). People like you should never be allowed to limit the freedom others have. (within limits of course abortion should have time limits)

 

I agree with limits on when abortion can be done, personally i feel it should be done as soon as possible. I really don't get it why some people wait so long. 

 

Again no trauma to either me or the lady in question. Trauma would be having to take care of an unwanted child.

[Krataiboy]

9 hours ago, The manic said:

My friend had 11 abortions. She hated condoms and the pill. She is French and like many women untouched by religious idiocy regarded abortion as a form of birth control and as traumatic as a heavy period. 

Your friend appears to have been touched a great deal too often for her own good, though clearly not by religious idiocy. 

 

Incidentally, one should not conflate religious idiocy with morality. They are quite different things and can be polar opposites.

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Why, if that's not too personal a question (from a incredibly happy and fulfilled dad with a child of my own and five stepchildren). Just seeing what you have written makes me sad.

Why many guys me included don't want kids and would go to great lengths to not have kids. That you have different views.. good you take care of your kids others don't like them. Its would be like me saying to you I am sad you don't like dogs. 

[Krataiboy]

29 minutes ago, robblok said:

I view you a bit as a religious nut, wanting to tell others what to do with their body. This is an other remark that is way off base. Anti conception is not 100% safe it can fail you can take precautions and still fail.

 

I too have had experience with abortion, we practiced safe sex something went wrong and she got pregnant. The moment we knew she as over time we got a pil and it was done. (must have been maximal week 5 or so). People like you should never be allowed to limit the freedom others have. (within limits of course abortion should have time limits)

 

I agree with limits on when abortion can be done, personally i feel it should be done as soon as possible. I really don't get it why some people wait so long. 

 

Again no trauma to either me or the lady in question. Trauma would be having to take care of an unwanted child.

Actually, I'm an anti-theist nut, and one who would like to point out that all our freedoms, including access to abortion, are limited - not by puny individuals like me who offer their opinion in debates such as this one - but by those governments elected to serve our best interests. 

 

I sympathise with the dilemma of couples who find conceive an unwanted child and in your circumstances, the decision you and your partner came to may well have been the right one for all concerned.

 

I am not opposed to abortion on principle, but firmly believe it should be solution of last resort. This is clearly is not the casse today, with women's rights groups pressing for babies to be discarded for almost any reason far beyond the 24-week limit for terminations in the UK. 

 

A human life is a life, in or outside the womb. If you don't believe me, look at this picture of a six-month-old baby in utero and ask yourself whether you could kill it.

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Krataiboy