‘Stupid’ memo highlights plight of rural Isaan

[robblok]

1 minute ago, todlad said:

Before I replied to this I went and checked since I was relying on my memory of that statistic. I have found a range of answers including the IQ of the UK averaging 100 at the moment. Unless, we have slipped backwards or they have recalibrated the tests, I don't believe that. On the other hand, the very first site I landed on shows Thailand with an average IQ of slightly more than 116 and the UK at slightly less than 105. Many countries in their list have averages exceeding 110.

 

100 is around normal for the UK, Dutch are the same

 

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

 

Thailand shows here 91

 

I think your at a wrong site because normally we should all be around 100 only really smart countries are higher and those countries are mainly asian countries.

[robblok]

Just now, Father Fintan Stack said:

There's no way the average IQ in Thailand is that high.

 

I would be surprised if the average is over 80, more likely to be around 70 IMO.

Your sadly mistaken, but if it makes you feel better.. 

[chrisandsu]

21 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Eh?

 

England had a Scottish king and court ruling over it as early as 1603.

 

Scottish culture was widely celebrated in England since the late 1700's thanks to Robert Burns and Sir Walter Scott among others.

 

The Scottish did not emigrate to England en masse as the Irish did. 

 

Amazing how someone could come out with such an uneducated and uninformed statement in the 21st Century.

Do tell me what happened to that Mary queen of Scots? There was a huge Scottish migration south due to the English clearing the highlands then plantations to Northern Ireland and then further as indenstured servants to the americas and Australia  . My family was part of that and my family name was prescribed  for over 150 years . If you wore the tartan or used the name you was hung ! Scottish heritage celebrated ? You have to be kidding the bagpipes were also banned  . The only time the English was ever interested in Scotland is when the North Sea oil was found . Don’t come out with such uneducated crap ! I think you are the one suffering with such a low IQ . 

Edited April 6, 2018 by chrisandsu

[todlad]

9 minutes ago, robblok said:

100 is around normal for the UK, Dutch are the same

 

https://iq-research.info/en/average-iq-by-country

 

Thailand shows here 91

 

I think your at a wrong site because normally we should all be around 100 only really smart countries are higher and those countries are mainly asian countries.

The site you quote there is one of the sites I looked at too.

I remember that in the 1990s and into the 2000s, there was a lot of discussion about the rise in average IQ scores in the UK and other developed countries. Such increases made sense and they still do. Take a look at this site that discusses the changes in IQ scores: it's called the Flynn Effect, apparently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

One of the issues that came to the fore, of course, was the applicability of western style IQ tests to countries that are not considered Western. They developed more appropriate tests for these countries.

[Media1]

At least his honest. Stupid is stupid 

[chrisandsu]

11 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Most of that post is utter uninformed nonsense.

 

Signed,

 

An actual Scotsman. 

I’m a Scotsman too . Who was bought up in England . Care to educate me ? Scotland up until the North Sea oil find was one of the poorest countries in Europe . When I was growing up in the south of England the Scottish and Irish were not viewed any different to the West Indians and Asians . But you would know better right ? Shhhhhh and stop making a fool of yourself . 

[JAG]

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

So what have their parties done for them over the years? Where are all the good schools / education programs?  

The #1 reason, I suspect is instituting what amounted to universal access to healthcare. This dramatically reduced infant mortality.

Many here I suspect dramatically underestimate the effect which that had upon the lives of a very large proportion of the people of this country, and the political loyalty which it engendered.

[NanLaew]

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article.

 

In these days of the Internet and the ability of anyone to compare a local situation to other localities in a country, it beggars belief that people in the NE are not aware of the disparities.

 

Which begs the question; why do people still question the choice of the people of the NE to vote for 'their' parties (currently the PTP) and not for Bangkok-based parties or entities like the military?

 

I am constantly amazed by this unfathomable lack of understanding...

 

Let me see. "Hey Somchai, let's do something totally radical and vote for the entrenched Bangkok-based amart and others of that ilk that haven't done a damn thing for us, our parents, our grandparents and great-grandparents... ever."

 

Yes, I can see where you're coming from.

[AGareth2]

4 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

How do you vote for the military?

take to the streets

and cause unrest

[Chris Lawrence]

I read somewhere that only 6% of GDP is dedicated to this area. Education is a very strong political tool because it gives a voice to question. Why educate a force that could over run you?

 

They have a lot of poor management that is directed from Bangkok.

[Chris Lawrence]

5 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Nope, I'm spot on.

 

I recall a few years ago the Thai average was under 80 IQ points and it was one of the lowest in the World.

 

I go by experience and the majority of Thais cannot do simple arithmetic in their heads so there's no way they have an average IQ anywhere near 91. Those are Bangkok based Thais, you go out into the sticks and they are still scratching their bung-holes and sniffing their fingers.

 

It's simply not possible for such an uneducated population to have that high an average, sorry.

You should be asking "WHY", not getting into a debate as too who is right and wrong. What would be the average if yo did it class structure, the kids educated overseas.

 

So "WHY".

 

Otherwise all u are doing is heading in the wind with the spray hitting u in the face. Ur debate is pointless.

[robblok]

53 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

You should be asking "WHY", not getting into a debate as too who is right and wrong. What would be the average if yo did it class structure, the kids educated overseas.

 

So "WHY".

 

Otherwise all u are doing is heading in the wind with the spray hitting u in the face. Ur debate is pointless.

Chris IQ is for 50% hereditary so education can influence the rest .. but an IQ of under 80 (on average).. that is real hard to imagine. Just my 2 cents.. I believe the under 90.. but under 80.. that is real bad.

[djayz]

9 hours ago, JAG said:

Those who are in a position to make a difference simply do not care. They regard people from Issan  (and to a lesser extent from the North) as little more than serfs to be exploited.

 

Whatever the statistics say, these "serfs" are not stupid and they know what is being done to them. That is why they vote as they do. They do so in the knowledge and expectation that their vote will inevitably be overturned. Sooner or later they will have enough and, as someone has just said, "Sadly nothing will change here, until the underprivileged realize that enough is enough and take to the streets."

 

The real stupidity is on the part of the "entitled ones", who belief that their wealth, status and comic opera generals will be enough to sustain their hegemony.

It is mirrored by those commentators here who also think that is the case.

 

It won't, and unless they wake up to it, and do something concrete  quite fast about it, it's likely to get very messy.

With all due respect JAG, the vast majority of people in NE Thailand vote as they do because they get paid a few hundred Baht to vote that way... 

It'd be interesting to see how they'd vote if money wasn't being offered. I sincerely believe they'd still vote RED... but, until the hand outs stop flowing, we'll just never know for sure. 

[djayz]

9 hours ago, lanista said:

Referring to Isan people as  Isan-Lao  always gets a smug  response from Bangkok Thai's including  wealthy educated farming families in the fertile plain west of the city.  Dark skinned people have always borne the brunt of silly tv commercial parodies.

But Isan is moving ahead albeit slowly due to its lousy climate. Billions of bahts pour into Isan every year due to marriages mostly with old  European men. There are millions of Isan people benefiting directly from all this cash. Alot of the  farm work is now done by Burmese and Cambodians. Thai men work in the  soi factories or not at all if they're lucky enough to have a generous farang on the family tree.

 

Isan people are not stupid. They pick up English, Dutch &German  languages very quickly and many become rich living in Europe or Isan with their sponsor husbands. Their Isan men win as well.

 

How many 'smart ' farangs have made money out of Thais???

Can I have some of whatever you're on, please? 

I sincerely doubt farangs are pumping "billions" of Baht into Isan annually. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by djayz

[geriatrickid]

12 hours ago, Chris Lawrence said:

There is a caste system in Thailand.

Most westerners don't get it, or appreciate it. My observation has been that   majority of foreigners are in relationships with the low standing part of the social hierarchy and it is why they have so many problems.

[GinBoy2]

I would suggest that the fact that the Lao are becoming more aware of the situation is less to do with the money influx from old farangs, and more to do with the increasing numbers travelling overseas for work.

South Korea, Sweden & Canada are the ones at least anecdotally in my experience that seem to be the most common.

It's quite apparent when they return regardless of their educational status, the exposure to truly free societies changes them.

That may be something the BKK elite are powerless to stop.

Hope for the future, or maybe a recipe for disaster! Time will tell

[djayz]

10 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Most westerners don't get it, or appreciate it. My observation has been that   majority of foreigners are in relationships with the low standing part of the social hierarchy and it is why they have so many problems.

The low standing part of the social hierachy have problems because they are in relationships with farang or farang have problems because they are in relationships with the low standing part of the social hierachy?

 

?

Edited April 6, 2018 by djayz

[lungbing]

I suspect most of the 'experts' expressing their point of view on here have been no closer to Isaan than Don Meuang airport.

 

I think that IQ has little to do with education, the same as ignorant is not the same as stupid.

 

The last thing the ruling class in Bangkok want is  an educated people from Isaan asking where their share of the national pie is.  Better they know their place as maids and gardeners who can be slapped and kicked, for which see any soap on Thai TV.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by lungbing
spelling correction

[utalkin2me]

I am glad to be corrected, but the little I have seen of the NE country it seems is purposefully being withheld from technology/internet. In doing so, the masses out there keep busy planting and harvesting rice, which continues to make the govt and powerful families richer. I’ve never driven past 100 miles of fields in the USA and seen the same exact crop in every field. Doesn’t it stand to reason that many Thais would be much better off planting other crops, but they just lack the know how and resources?

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, chrisandsu said:

This article is a litttle dated . Issarn has made massive strides forward in the 15 years I have been going to Thailand . Back when I first went ,there was not much of a difference between Cambodia and issarn , now the difference is huge ! Almost to the point where most of the labourers in the fields are not Thai anymore . Back in those days you would never get someone from issarn with a decent central government job I  now know a fair few .

Reminds me of the old days when the Scottish and Irish were seen as the bottom of the barrel in England until the next wave of immigrants came in . Issarn people’s stock has risen while the Cambodian and Burmese have taken their place . Happens all over the world . 

Maybe in the south east of Isaan, Surin etc. But up here in the North of Isaan, in 2018, "labourers in the fields", rubber tappers etc are 99% Thai, virtually no Lao labourers doing agricultural work. Always been like this.

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, djayz said:

With all due respect JAG, the vast majority of people in NE Thailand vote as they do because they get paid a few hundred Baht to vote that way... 

It'd be interesting to see how they'd vote if money wasn't being offered. I sincerely believe they'd still vote RED... but, until the hand outs stop flowing, we'll just never know for sure. 

No, wrong, they get paid by BOTH SIDES, if there's 3 or 4 crosses to put in the box, then they'll get paid 3 or 4 times.

Happens from general elections, down to province elections down to village head man.

It's always been like this. And it's not who pays the most money wins.

 Lets put it this way, up here in the North and NE, Dem hands out 600 baht, Red hands out 300 baht, per voter, who do you think they'll vote for? I guarantee you, the 300 baht man.

[thaiguzzi]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

Most westerners don't get it, or appreciate it. My observation has been that   majority of foreigners are in relationships with the low standing part of the social hierarchy and it is why they have so many problems.

Confirmed Snob and Bigot.

[thaiguzzi]

11 hours ago, lanista said:

Referring to Isan people as  Isan-Lao  always gets a smug  response from Bangkok Thai's including  wealthy educated farming families in the fertile plain west of the city.  Dark skinned people have always borne the brunt of silly tv commercial parodies.

But Isan is moving ahead albeit slowly due to its lousy climate. Billions of bahts pour into Isan every year due to marriages mostly with old  European men. There are millions of Isan people benefiting directly from all this cash. Alot of the  farm work is now done by Burmese and Cambodians. Thai men work in the  soi factories or not at all if they're lucky enough to have a generous farang on the family tree.

 

Isan people are not stupid. They pick up English, Dutch &German  languages very quickly and many become rich living in Europe or Isan with their sponsor husbands. Their Isan men win as well.

 

How many 'smart ' farangs have made money out of Thais???

One of the most nonsensical and stupid posts I've read in ages.

Here's a couple of facts for you -

The money "poured" into Isaan annually over the last two decades from Western influence is but a pimple on a large arse.

I have never met, nor seen a Burmese person in the North East. Not a surprise really as it's the other side of the country.

Plenty of Cambodians on construction sites in BKK etc, but not up here.

Plenty of Lao labourers , but most of the Lao people over here are either businessmen or female karaoke workers or ladies of the night in the big cities.

[thaiguzzi]

11 hours ago, JAG said:

Those who are in a position to make a difference simply do not care. They regard people from Issan  (and to a lesser extent from the North) as little more than serfs to be exploited.

 

Whatever the statistics say, these "serfs" are not stupid and they know what is being done to them. That is why they vote as they do. They do so in the knowledge and expectation that their vote will inevitably be overturned. Sooner or later they will have enough and, as someone has just said, "Sadly nothing will change here, until the underprivileged realize that enough is enough and take to the streets."

 

The real stupidity is on the part of the "entitled ones", who belief that their wealth, status and comic opera generals will be enough to sustain their hegemony.

It is mirrored by those commentators here who also think that is the case.

 

It won't, and unless they wake up to it, and do something concrete  quite fast about it, it's likely to get very messy.

+1.

One of THE BEST books I've read about Thailand is called "People of Esarn" (correct spelling), by Pira Sudham, first published in '94.

 Short book, read it in a day or two.

      Read it and weep....

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Most westerners don't get it, or appreciate it. My observation has been that   majority of foreigners are in relationships with the low standing part of the social hierarchy and it is why they have so many problems.

You mean punters that marry hookers?

 

2 hours ago, djayz said:

The low standing part of the social hierachy have problems because they are in relationships with farang or farang have problems because they are in relationships with the low standing part of the social hierachy?

 

Yes.

[chrisandsu]

1 hour ago, thaiguzzi said:

Maybe in the south east of Isaan, Surin etc. But up here in the North of Isaan, in 2018, "labourers in the fields", rubber tappers etc are 99% Thai, virtually no Lao labourers doing agricultural work. Always been like this.

Yes you could be right there . I do usually spend my time travelling around the more southern parts of issarn . Which that could be influenced by the Bangkok people buying up the farm land closer to the capital (like korat) my SIL construction team who built her house were all Cambodian . The fields around her place are all Cambodian workers (especially the large scale farms )

[rickudon]

I would agree that the original article is a bit outdated, Maybe still applies way out in the bush. But as others said, many in Isaan now have quite good diets (apart from too much sugar and fat). As for their being a IQ deficit due to kids only speaking Lao before going to school, this may have applied a generation ago. These days all kids are exposed to Thai via TV and the internet, and the best time to learn languages is BEFORE school age. My daughter spoke English first, then Lao and Thai. This multi-language ability makes learning languages easier, maybe why all the bar girls pick up english quickly .......

 

As for IQ, held back by education system AND Thai language. At my daughters school they teach them English letters first because it is easier than the Thai script! 

 

As for being stupid, most rural Thais (particularly the older ones) are incredibly versatile and have many skills - not polished ones, because it is a case of making do with what you have. They just lack education, and for the young, lack of opportunities.

 

Some one thought they were stupid because they only grow rice ..... reality is that this is the only crop that you can easily grow if you have waterlogged land, and insufficient money to do anything about it. BUT of course this only applies to the paddies. The drier land is planted to trees (for wood and fruit), rough pasture for the cows and buffalo, pigs, chickens, ducks or dug out to make fish ponds. And in the dry season vegetable patches appear - but their extent is limited to what you can get water too - most do not have irrigation available.

 

Another poster claimed that the billions provided by farangs to their Thai families are raising the economy - is this true? Actually, has some truth. Udon Thani province has a population of about 1.5 million, and a farang population of between 5-10,000. So about 0.5% are farang. But we spend over half a million each every year, so we spend about 4 billion baht a year (maybe a lot more). I would say this represents over 0.5% of the economy, looking at typical salaries here, maybe 5% of all expenditure ...... small, but not insignificant.

 

 

[ericthai]

19 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Good article.

 

In these days of the Internet and the ability of anyone to compare a local situation to other localities in a country, it beggars belief that people in the NE are not aware of the disparities.

 

Which begs the question; why do people still question the choice of the people of the NE to vote for 'their' parties (currently the PTP) and not for Bangkok-based parties or entities like the military?

 

I am constantly amazed by this unfathomable lack of understanding...

 

because the politicians buy their votes.  Seen it many times!

[kareona]

The word used is the ' stupid' memo was โง่  ngo:h with a falling tone, mostly translated as 'stupid'.  But it points more to somebody's wrong (political) opinions and ideas than to a low or weak intelligence which is in Thai more often expressed as ปัญญา อ่อน panyaa ohn.  Intelligent people can say 'stupid' things too. 

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, ericthai said:

because the politicians buy their votes.  Seen it many times!

No. You've READ it many times.