Pattaya Trip, First for Ten Years

[starky]

7 minutes ago, torrzent said:

You seemed to have trouble with higher level conceptualizing and logical reasoning.  Nobody said Pattaya was Paris, other than you,  with your silly strawman twisted logic.  The point that was made, which I shall copy for you here, was  " In fact as almost any western city has some such establishment or zone, it would be impossible to go almost anywhere.  I recommend these types of easily offended people head to the middle east or some other puritanical place so as to not be tainted. "

 

You also need to pull out an atlas.  Hamburg and Berlin are not the same place.

 

I hope I have simplified this enough for you to understand.

Only in the Pattaya forum do posters become some so personal and abusive so quickly. Having a small red light district in a major city is no comparison to what is Pattaya. If you wish to speak of Thailand than yes Pattaya and the other red light areas are relatively small. Yours is the straw man argument.  A fairer comparison would be Pattaya with AC in the PIs and I am sure there are many residents there who also have no day to day dealings with the bars. Point being comparing Pattaya with Paris, Hamburg,  Sydney or whatever other major city you could throw up is apples and oranges compared to the size, history and general perception  worldwide of what Pattaya is mostly, granted slowly changing, renowned for.  Surely it can't be that hard to understand. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by starky

[Peterw42]

40 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Why did you come here in the first place?

Not sure what the relevance of the question is but I originally moved to Pattaya from BKK because my wifes mother was dieing and she wanted to be closer to her. Secondly, although my wife owned a house in suburban BKK, after living in Pattaya we realised that the BKK life was actually quiet boring, and we both enjoyed life in Pattaya more.

Maybe because I didnt start life in Pattaya as a sexpat, I dont look at it in terms of where I can and cant buy sex.

I dont like somtum, but I believe its available everywhere, there are places, and sois, that specialize in it, its everywhere. Pattaya is a giant somtum restaurant. 

[simoh1490]

31 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Yeah, I got to say funny enough Central Festival may be one of the biggest brothels in town.

Walk around there in the afternoon it is full of working girls killing time.

The place is a gold mine.

Oh, sorry, if that is your thing. :)

 

They should have a man at the door to keep such people out, anyone in the sex trade and entertainment industry shouldn't be allowed in. And maybe people who take drugs should be banned also, and those who drink alcohol......is there anyone else you don't want little Jimmy and Suzzie to see whilst they're out shopping with mum and dad because we can instruct the doorman accordingly!

[reenatinnakor]

You seemed to have trouble with higher level conceptualizing and logical reasoning.  Nobody said Pattaya was Paris, other than you,  with your silly strawman twisted logic.  The point that was made, which I shall copy for you here, was  " In fact as almost any western city has some such establishment or zone, it would be impossible to go almost anywhere.  I recommend these types of easily offended people head to the middle east or some other puritanical place so as to not be tainted. "
 
You also need to pull out an atlas.  Hamburg and Berlin are not the same place.
 
I hope I have simplified this enough for you to understand.

You're on a losing argument! He has a university degree you know. 5555

Sent from my LG-H990 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Peterw42]

36 minutes ago, starky said:

Is your daughter sight impaired? 10 days and never saw 1 bar in central Pattaya ok then, and why pray tell did you originally move to Pattaya? And historically could you maybe tell us experts then what Pattaya has been best known for and associated with for the past 5 decades? If you are going to debate at least be realistic. I think it is a positive thing the Pattaya isn't just a town for sexpats anymore but it is a long way purely IMO of being rid of the image it has been world renowned for, for so many years.

 

Of course she saw bars, as she described them "old men getting drunk and watching the football". Having never been a sexpat, she was maybe aware that you can pay and take the girls home, but was more interested in the nightmarket, the mall, down the road.

 

Im not disputing the past reputation but as even you say "Pattaya isn't just a town for sexpats anymore" but if people just keep repeating the same old narrative, justified or not, the image will never change.

[starky]

13 hours ago, newnative said:

     Well, maybe I will jump in after all.  I think you continue to miss the point.  Pattaya has bars, nobody is saying otherwise.  But, as a resident, most of the streets you mentioned are mainly for tourists.  As a resident, I never go to Walking Street, Soi 6, Pattayaland (whatever that is), and so on at all.  My normal, everyday life does not revolve around the bars and I don't think I am alone in that.  Major streets that I do use have far more regular businesses than bars.

     We are not being defensive--we are just pointing out that Pattaya, for residents, is not defined by the bars.  I imagine it's much the same for folks living in Vegas.  The tourists are focused on gambling--"My goodness there's gambling everywhere you look!  Even the airport has slot machines!"  The residents, on the other hand, are going about their regular, non-tourist lives.

I would also like to point out I respect your opinion. I have more than 2 dozen friends who still live in Pattaya and I get down there 2-3 times a year. I think the perception comes with the stigma of the sex tourist. I have no issue with sex tourism and it certainly is not solely dirty old men looking for a young girl. I know a team of girls a from Sydney that get over there once a year to play in Pattaya also another good mate who is disabled and we take him down a couple times a year because he enjoys the time and attention he receives. When I was in my twenties I spent 6 months a year there staying in the penthouse of the LK renaissance or 18k baht a night, for a month at a time, so it covers all different people. I accept for you as a resident it may not be at all about the bars etc. but currently most people's perception of Pattaya, whether right or wrong, is that of a town full of bars and girls where sex is easily available. Now I've gone way off topic but I am trying to keep it civil. Cheers

[simoh1490]

Once again, the argument is not about whether it's a 1 or a 10 because that's not a winnable argument, perhaps better to try and agree where on the scale it does sit. I like the Las Vegas analogy and as said, I rate Pattaya around a 6/7 where 1 is Soddom and Gomorrah and 10 is the Vatican.

[owl sees all]

I've read a few times on this thread about Hua Hin (HH) residents looking down at the decadent Pattaya. But there is more to it!

 

I'd like to point out that if you go to the end of walkway in HH and look down you can see - in 3 metres of water I must add - starfish and sea-urchins scrabbling in the sand. Just try and spot anything like that from Bali High Pier; impossible.

[midas]

It's funny you made no reference to the cleanliness (or otherwise) of the beaches and the ocean? How did you rate those?

[Peterw42]

6 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Once again, the argument is not about whether it's a 1 or a 10 because that's not a winnable argument, perhaps better to try and agree where on the scale it does sit. I like the Las Vegas analogy and as said, I rate Pattaya around a 6/7 where 1 is Soddom and Gomorrah and 10 is the Vatican.

This could become a new unit of measure, the SGV index. Could be used on trip advisor etc.

 

 

 

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I've read a few times on this thread about Hua Hin (HH) residents looking down at the decadent Pattaya. But there is more to it!

 

I'd like to point out that if you go to the end of walkway in HH and look down you can see - in 3 metres of water I must add - starfish and sea-urchins scrabbling in the sand. Just try and spot anything like that from Bali High Pier; impossible.

But then again, I havnt seen any horse poo on pattaya beaches.

[bkk6060]

19 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I've read a few times on this thread about Hua Hin (HH) residents looking down at the decadent Pattaya. But there is more to it!

 

I'd like to point out that if you go to the end of walkway in HH and look down you can see - in 3 metres of water I must add - starfish and sea-urchins scrabbling in the sand. Just try and spot anything like that from Bali High Pier; impossible.

Hey, if Starfish are your thing......

[torrzent]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

But then again, I havnt seen any horse poo on pattaya beaches.

 

20 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

I've read a few times on this thread about Hua Hin (HH) residents looking down at the decadent Pattaya. But there is more to it!

 

I'd like to point out that if you go to the end of walkway in HH and look down you can see - in 3 metres of water I must add - starfish and sea-urchins scrabbling in the sand. Just try and spot anything like that from Bali High Pier; impossible.

Comparing a high traffic pier and regional water transport gateway with a relatively quiet beach is an irrelevant apples and oranges comparison.  Maybe you could compare it with Hat Sai Kaew, down Bang Saray way?

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

But then again, I havnt seen any horse poo on pattaya beaches.

Excellent point there Peter.

 

I will say the poo poo on the beach is not the best advert for HH, but they do now have teams of workers cleaning it up. Unfortunately sometimes there are incidents; the Australian lady who lost a leg, but generally all goes smoothly.

 

Last time I was in Pattaya, I walked up the the cliff where the big bronze signs are. There is a whole community up there. As you look north, across the bay, the sea changes colour. An artist's dream you might say. I sat there with my binoculars and observed the goings-on.

[Ron19]

Troll/Flame posts have been removed as well as answers to them.

I can feel a holiday coming on. Keep it up and leave no doubt about it.

Note to others don't feed the trolls, they thrive on that.

[rott]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Once again, the argument is not about whether it's a 1 or a 10 because that's not a winnable argument, perhaps better to try and agree where on the scale it does sit. I like the Las Vegas analogy and as said, I rate Pattaya around a 6/7 where 1 is Soddom and Gomorrah and 10 is the Vatican.

Possibly you have the Vatican and Sodom the wrong way around. Possibly not. But Pattaya is still not mainly gay.

[JamJar]

21 hours ago, newnative said:

     Well, maybe I will jump in after all.  I think you continue to miss the point.  Pattaya has bars, nobody is saying otherwise.  But, as a resident, most of the streets you mentioned are mainly for tourists.  As a resident, I never go to Walking Street, Soi 6, Pattayaland (whatever that is), and so on at all.  My normal, everyday life does not revolve around the bars and I don't think I am alone in that.  Major streets that I do use have far more regular businesses than bars.

     We are not being defensive--we are just pointing out that Pattaya, for residents, is not defined by the bars.  I imagine it's much the same for folks living in Vegas.  The tourists are focused on gambling--"My goodness there's gambling everywhere you look!  Even the airport has slot machines!"  The residents, on the other hand, are going about their regular, non-tourist lives.

 

Haven't they always done so??

To suggest that Pattaya isn't known worldwide for it's extreme image is ridiculous.

Yes, business adapts to the demographic, but if you think that the new tourists aren't visiting sex shows in droves, with some actively participating in the sex industry, you need to open your eyes.

 

There are more establishments specifically catering to the Asian market than there were before. If you think the business of selling sex in Pattaya has diminished, you are fooling yourself.

 

Yes, there are other attractions than just the sexual element and thank goodness for that. but the beaches are horrible and highrises and malls aren't a reason to visit a seaside resort.

 

You would be surprised at the number of female tourists; East Asians, Indians, Russians etc visiting sex shows.

The place is rank and full of corruption. One can do one's best to avoid it. 

A few overrated attractions doesn't change it into a 'classy' destination. 

This doesn't mean that you cannot live a pleasant life there. But a top class family destination it is not.

 

 

[Thaidream]

I can name 10 things about Pattaya I do not like and  5 things I do like. I have simply outgrown the place- Since I have a 48 year history I remember simpler days; no traffic and pollution and people who smiled because it was the Thai Way. Other people have other perspectives depending on their experience.

 

If I was a novice and could not speak Thai- I might be fooled by the entertainment sector. However, since I have History and know what they are saying- I find the place boring; false and too commercial.  However, if I exclude the 'entertainment sector'- there are good restaurants and good lodgings and some upscale places to drink. Generally speaking- if I want to visit a  seaside city- there are literally hundreds in Thailand better than Pattaya and much more fun. You'll never find them if you never look.

The Worldwide opinion of Pattaya is that it is simply a 'sex city' and it will take decades to change that view. However, as Pattaya gentrifies with more malls; more boutique Hotels and higher end Pubs it will become more expensive and the mongers will go elsewhere which in turn will make Pattaya become more of a family destination.  Put in Casino gambling and those who do the gambling circuit (Vegas; Monaco; Macau will have another destination)

Edited April 7, 2018 by Thaidream

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

Haven't they always done so??

To suggest that Pattaya isn't known worldwide for it's extreme image is ridiculous.

Yes, business adapts to the demographic, but if you think that the new tourists aren't visiting sex shows in droves, with some actively participating in the sex industry, you need to open your eyes.

 

There are more establishments specifically catering to the Asian market than there were before. If you think the business of selling sex in Pattaya has diminished, you are fooling yourself.

 

Yes, there are other attractions than just the sexual element and thank goodness for that. but the beaches are horrible and highrises and malls aren't a reason to visit a seaside resort.

 

You would be surprised at the number of female tourists; East Asians, Indians, Russians etc visiting sex shows.

The place is rank and full of corruption. One can do one's best to avoid it. 

A few overrated attractions doesn't change it into a 'classy' destination. 

This doesn't mean that you cannot live a pleasant life there. But a top class family destination it is not.

 

 

Just to be clear:

 

Nobody suggested Pattaya didn't have a worldwide reputation.

 

Nobody suggested it was a top-class family destination.

 

Nobody suggested it is a classy destination.

[JamJar]

On 06/04/2018 at 12:09 PM, simoh1490 said:

You'd be correct in saying that, Pattaya is known as exactly that but I think the headline is that things are changing. And I agree also that today, Pattaya is not a world class family holiday destination but it has changed, it is changing and it is becoming a family holiday destination, much much more so than ever before in the past. This is not about Pattaya being a 1 or a 10, today it's heading towards 6 or 7, the Pattaya I knew of old was around a 2 or a 3.

 

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. It has become more polluted with the advent of mass tourism, less green spaces, poorer beaches and poorer water quality at the aforementioned, yet it has somehow gone up in your estimation? Is the water potable from the tap?

If you think it's a six or seven, you need to travel more widely. I would not even enter the water in Central Pattaya. 

It' may be fine for a short and superficial visit of the malls and attractions.But I still believe that a beach resort should have a decent beach and water and clean air.

Perhaps you are used to poor air quality, coming from Chiang Mai

 

 

[simoh1490]

18 minutes ago, JamJar said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not seeing it. It has become more polluted with the advent of mass tourism, less green spaces, poorer beaches and poorer water quality at the aforementioned, yet it has somehow gone up in your estimation? Is the water potable from the tap?

If you think it's a six or seven, you need to travel more widely. I would not even enter the water in Central Pattaya. 

It' may be fine for a short and superficial visit of the malls and attractions.But I still believe that a beach resort should have a decent beach and water and clean air.

Perhaps you are used to poor air quality, coming from Chiang Mai

 

 

It doesn't surprise me that you're not seeing it, you need to go back and read the OP again perhaps and this time read it slowly then read it again, come back to me with any questions you have after all of that!

[swissie]

I just don't get it.

Why is it a desirable goal tu turn Pattaya into another "Benidorm". Scientific term: "Benidormification". Why is it that every holiday destination must look and smell and taste the same. (if you have seen one, you have seen them all!)

Isn't it that the touch of controlled "sleaze", the sense of "adventure" and the "low hanging fruits" that make Pattaya unique and different form the 5000 "Benidorms" already in existence?

Pattaya (as it is) should be added to the UNESCO Cultural Heritance list. Worth preserving for future generations.

Tourists and expats that don't like the way Pattaya is, should find it easy to relocate to 1 of those 5000 "Benidorms".
Cheers.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

11 hours ago, starky said:

Only in the Pattaya forum do posters become some so personal and abusive so quickly. 

 

Same with people living in Chiang Mai. They get all defensive if you don't agree it's one of the best places to live while in fact it's one of the filthiest.

[The manic]

On 4/6/2018 at 4:21 PM, CGW said:

I agree! but isn't every city in Thailand a "dump" to some extent, poor planning with no thought to the future? The same cheap tasteless concrete building, Thailand has never won any arcitectural awards for obvious reasons 

Nong Khai and Roi et are pretty cities

[The manic]

30 minutes ago, swissie said:

I just don't get it.

Why is it a desirable goal tu turn Pattaya into another "Benidorm". Scientific term: "Benidormification". Why is it that every holiday destination must look and smell and taste the same. (if you have seen one, you have seen them all!)

Isn't it that the touch of controlled "sleaze", the sense of "adventure" and the "low hanging fruits" that make Pattaya unique and different form the 5000 "Benidorms" already in existence?

Pattaya (as it is) should be added to the UNESCO Cultural Heritance list. Worth preserving for future generations.

Tourists and expats that don't like the way Pattaya is, should find it easy to relocate to 1 of those 5000 "Benidorms".
Cheers.

There have been changes but not for the better.

[tropo]

On 4/6/2018 at 1:49 PM, hansnl said:

Yes, probably changed a lot.

But what about all the little people earning a living there?

Where are they now?

 

The "little people" eventually have to go. On one hand, people are knocking Pattaya for being dirty, but then they worry about all the "little people" who are keeping it that way. You just can't win. You put up shiny new shopping centers and hotels, then hear all the whining about how Pattaya has changed and they don't like it anymore. 

 

 

Right now Pattaya doesn't have a shortage of "little people" striving to make a living. I don't think that will change anytime soon.

 

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I can name 10 things about Pattaya I do not like and  5 things I do like. I have simply outgrown the place- Since I have a 48 year history I remember simpler days; no traffic and pollution and people who smiled because it was the Thai Way. Other people have other perspectives depending on their experience.

 

1

"I have simply outgrown the place", you say. Don't you mean Pattaya has outgrown you?

[The manic]

51 minutes ago, swissie said:

I just don't get it.

Why is it a desirable goal tu turn Pattaya into another "Benidorm". Scientific term: "Benidormification". Why is it that every holiday destination must look and smell and taste the same. (if you have seen one, you have seen them all!)

Isn't it that the touch of controlled "sleaze", the sense of "adventure" and the "low hanging fruits" that make Pattaya unique and different form the 5000 "Benidorms" already in existence?

Pattaya (as it is) should be added to the UNESCO Cultural Heritance list. Worth preserving for future generations.

Tourists and expats that don't like the way Pattaya is, should find it easy to relocate to 1 of those 5000 "Benidorms".
Cheers.

And the same principal applies to the Changes in Bangkok. Hey! Leave them streets alone!

[The manic]

3 hours ago, Thaidream said:

I can name 10 things about Pattaya I do not like and  5 things I do like. I have simply outgrown the place- Since I have a 48 year history I remember simpler days; no traffic and pollution and people who smiled because it was the Thai Way. Other people have other perspectives depending on their experience.

 

If I was a novice and could not speak Thai- I might be fooled by the entertainment sector. However, since I have History and know what they are saying- I find the place boring; false and too commercial.  However, if I exclude the 'entertainment sector'- there are good restaurants and good lodgings and some upscale places to drink. Generally speaking- if I want to visit a  seaside city- there are literally hundreds in Thailand better than Pattaya and much more fun. You'll never find them if you never look.

The Worldwide opinion of Pattaya is that it is simply a 'sex city' and it will take decades to change that view. However, as Pattaya gentrifies with more malls; more boutique Hotels and higher end Pubs it will become more expensive and the mongers will go elsewhere which in turn will make Pattaya become more of a family destination.  Put in Casino gambling and those who do the gambling circuit (Vegas; Monaco; Macau will have another destination)

If one wants to change the culture and demographics of a city then open up both large and small art galleries.  Personally I don't like the Changes in Pattaya or Bangkok. Both were once unique.

[swissie]

One on top.

Should the "Benidormification" be successful, I can see future Grandpa's (with grandson on their knees) engage in the following conversation:

- Grandpa: "Son, once upon a time there was a place where even grown up men were allowed to play".
- Grandson: "Like Disneyland"?
- Grandpa: "Much better son, much better".
- Grandson: "Wow, what games did they play"?
- Grandpa: "The games that men are best at and have most fun. After 2 weeks of "games" in this magic place, they could return to their home country, better eqipped to face the "hum-drum" life in their home country, where the "games" are fewer and farther between and very costly."
- Grandson: "I don't understand any of this".
- Grandpa: "You will, when you get older, believe me".
- Grandson: "Why has this magic place disappeared?"
- Grandpa: "Well, it was found that too much "games" will distract the men of this world from their essential duties: Work, pay taxes, and have enough income for alimony payements."
- Grandson: " I don't understand any of this".
- Grandpa: "Me neighter son, me neighter".
Cheers.