Enlarged Prostate

[wgdanson]

An ultrsound scan revealed that my P gland has enlarged over the past two years. Does not give me any jip apart from nocturnal pee pees. Doctor prescribed Harnal Orcas tablets which I read have two unfortunate side effects, EDF and rhinitis......blocked nose every morning, which is more uncomfortable than getting up for a jimmy. Any of you guys take other meds for similar conditions please. 70 yrs old and otherwise healthy.

[Jingthing]

You could look into taking Firide (Proscar) instead or a combination of Flomax (what you're taking) and Firide. 

One note of caution. 

Taking Flomax makes cataract surgery more difficult. EVER taking it even for a short period of time. So too late for you if you haven't had that surgery yet and might need it later. But a case for Firide instead. 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Jingthing

[wgdanson]

Thanks Jingthing, but Harnal Ocas is Tamulosin. And no, I haven't had or done any cataract operations.

[wgdanson]

Amazing how many ads have appeared in 5 minutes with prostate solutions, both doctors and medications.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

Thanks Jingthing, but Harnal Ocas is Tamulosin. And no, I haven't had or done any cataract operations.

Same chemical as FLOMAX. 

https://www.rxlist.com/flomax-drug.htm

 

Anyway, pretty much all humans will eventually develop cataracts with age. If you ever require surgery, be sure to tell the doctor that you have taken tamusolin before even if no longer on it. They can still do the procedure, but they need to know, and there are additional complications. If they don't know what you're talking about, seek another doctor!

 

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Same chemical as FLOMAX. 

https://www.rxlist.com/flomax-drug.htm

 

Anyway, pretty much all humans will eventually develop cataracts with age. If you ever require surgery, be sure to tell the doctor that you have taken tamusolin before even if no longer on it. They can still do the procedure, but they need to know, and there are additional complications. If they don't know what you're talking about, seek another doctor!

 

After reading the side effect of Flomax (tamulosin) I shall not be taking it any more, apart from the possiblity/chance of a 4 hour hard-on. 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

After reading the side effect of Flomax (tamulosin) I shall not be taking it any more, apart from the possiblity/chance of a 4 hour hard-on. 

All these meds have side effects. In any case, the weird thing about Flomax (according to what I read) is that the cataract complication still applies even if you only took it for a very short time, maybe even only ONE pill. 

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

All these meds have side effects. In any case, the weird thing about Flomax (according to what I read) is that the cataract complication still applies even if you only took it for a very short time, maybe even only ONE pill. 

Too late for me then, a dog and a white stick on the cards ! lol

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, wgdanson said:

Too late for me then, a dog and a white stick on the cards ! lol

No, it's not that bad. It just means you and the doctor would need to do some extra stuff if you ever need the cataract surgery. They need to know about the history and if they don't know how to adjust to that information, they are probably incompetent. 

[wgdanson]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No, it's not that bad. It just means you and the doctor would need to do some extra stuff if you ever need the cataract surgery. They need to know about the history and if they don't know how to adjust to that information, they are probably incompetent. 

I just was online and read that as long as you stop Flomax 14 days or more before cataract surgery, you should be OK. And of course, do not take after for a while. I shall post the site details.   https://www.webmd.com/men/news/20090519/flomax-linked-to-cataract-surgery-risks#2

Edited May 4, 2018 by wgdanson

[Jingthing]

Just now, wgdanson said:

I just was online and read that as long as you stop Flomax 14 days or more before cataract surgery, you should be OK. And of course, do not take after for a while. I shall post the site details.

Yes you stop as well if you're already on it.

Sorry but I read the damage is permanent if you EVER were on it.

In any case, just keep that in mind if you ever need that surgery and get a good doctor. 

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Yes you stop as well if you're already on it.

Sorry but I read the damage is permanent if you EVER were on it.

In any case, just keep that in mind if you ever need that surgery and get a good doctor. 

The site I quoted does not say that.

 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

The site I quoted does not say that.

 

It's complicated.

I think you can find many sources saying the damage may be permanent. Also, there is even controversy about stopping before the surgery if you're already on it. Don't stress for now, revisit this issue if you ever need to surgery. Many people can correct their vision with glasses and never get to the point where the surgery is needed.

 

Quote

Another unexpected and remarkable finding is that IFIS can occur more than one year after tamsulosin has been discontinued.1,2 Ninety-five percent of ASCRS survey respondents have experienced IFIS in patients with only a previous history of alpha-1 antagonist use.8 Histopathologic analysis of autopsy eyes from patients who were taking tamsulosin shows atrophy of the iris dilator muscle, which would be consistent with a semipermanent drug effect.9 Because stopping alpha blockers pre-operatively is of questionable benefit, only 11 percent of survey respondents routinely discontinue tamsulosin before cataract surgery.

Source: https://www.eyeworld.org/

[sfokevin]

Three years ago I had issued with frequent/urgent urination... And a digital exam  that showed enlarged prostate (And PSI test showed below 1 ;-)... My Thai doctor prescribed Doxazosin 4mg... I have taken it for these three years and it has solved the issue and no side effects other that morning wood ;-)...

[wgdanson]

11 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

Three years ago I had issued with frequent/urgent urination... And a digital exam  that showed enlarged prostate (And PSI test showed below 1 ;-)... My Thai doctor prescribed Doxazosin 4mg... I have taken it for these three years and it has solved the issue and no side effects other that morning wood ;-)...

My wife says I must try it!   On Googling it, it looks very similar to Tamulosin's side effects, including the cataract warning. It does say that if a prolonged erection occurs, go see your doctor or emergency room.......................especially if she is a woman, or there are Thai masseurs working in the EM.   lol

 

Edited May 4, 2018 by wgdanson

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Any of you guys take other meds for similar conditions please. 70 yrs old and otherwise healthy.

I take Beta Sitosterol tables, natural and seem to have improved my situation (go to iHerb.com) and look at the 375mg ones from "Source Naturals"...………..also good to help lower cholesterol.

 

Airmail postage costs $5 only.   

 

OR you could get a prescription from your doctor for daily 5 mg Cialis tablets (UK, national health?). Helps with BPH and the woody!!

[JAS21]

I went on Proscar  (finasteride) quite a while back and it shrunk my prostrate and my night problems ceased and my prostrate did get smaller... but the side effects for me were dizzy when standing. I decided to stop and within a few days 'crashed' and it took months to feel better again ... google and you will find this is not uncommon. 

 

My prostrate has now grown again and it is giving me a problems ... at present am taking Silidosin (apparently a very good drug)  ... am waiting for my doctor to come back from his 3months 'whatever' in Australia and then he will laser it and hopefully sort my problem.

 

My PSA has been around 1.4 to 1.6 for quite a few years ... it did drop on Proscar a little ...

 

I have two unopened boxes of finasteride and a box of Betmiga 50mg if anyone is interested

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by JAS21

[chubby]

with respect, you folks seem off on various tangents.   there are two approaches to the bladder not fully emptying, 1 keep the valve open longer  (the -zosins , which often are also used for high BP as treatment-  hence morning or  postural hypotension (low pressure with gravity) (they also often have the common adverse reaction of retrograde ejaculation, and other various like all drugs).  ....... then  the  long acting shrinkers    , the hormonal acting   Proscar(finesteride), Avodart etc.  which are more of a cure,    which are more known for the possible ED issues  ,  opposite of what's posted here.....

 

further, one needs to get a PSA before starting the  finesteride class of medicines,  as it will alter your PSA results, and then you can't rely on the PSA  numbers which on the drug ......

[wgdanson]

49 minutes ago, chubby said:

with respect, you folks seem off on various tangents.   there are two approaches to the bladder not fully emptying, 1 keep the valve open longer  (the -zosins , which often are also used for high BP as treatment-  hence morning or  postural hypotension (low pressure with gravity) (they also often have the common adverse reaction of retrograde ejaculation, and other various like all drugs).  ....... then  the  long acting shrinkers    , the hormonal acting   Proscar(finesteride), Avodart etc.  which are more of a cure,    which are more known for the possible ED issues  ,  opposite of what's posted here.....

 

further, one needs to get a PSA before starting the  finesteride class of medicines,  as it will alter your PSA results, and then you can't rely on the PSA  numbers which on the drug ......

I have read many articles which sat the PSA number is not a good indication of prostate cancer, low reading you may still have it, high reading, not necessarily. Who know. And as for a digital examination....I do not really think a doctor can tell just by his finger up yer bum.

[Bonobojt]

Stop eating dairy products (cheese, milk, yogurt) they contain hormones that can enlarge your prostate, also reduce your meat eating. 

 

You have to understand that cows milk is a growth fluid for a baby cow, and when humans drink it we get all the growth hormones and estrogen inside which can increase your risk of things like enlarged prostate. Apparently alcohol is also bad for this. 

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you need to eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables (especially dark leafy greens) , basically mostly a vegan diet with a little bit of meat or eggs. No alcohol. There may be some supplements to help you also, I'll leave some links. 

 

 

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321079.php

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Bonobojt

[wgdanson]

1 minute ago, Bonobojt said:

Stop eating dairy products (cheese, milk, yogurt) they contain hormones that can enlarge your prostate, also reduce your meat eating. 

 

You have to understand that cows milk is a growth fluid for a baby cow, and when humans drink it we get all the growth hormones and estrogen inside which can increase your risk of things like enlarged prostate. Apparently alcohol is also bad for this. 

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you need to eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables (especially dark leafy greens) , basically mostly a vegan diet with a little bit of meat or eggs. No alcohol. There may be some supplements to help you also, I'll leave some links. 

 

 

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321079.php

 

 

2 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

Stop eating dairy products (cheese, milk, yogurt) they contain hormones that can enlarge your prostate, also reduce your meat eating. 

 

You have to understand that cows milk is a growth fluid for a baby cow, and when humans drink it we get all the growth hormones and estrogen inside which can increase your risk of things like enlarged prostate. Apparently alcohol is also bad for this. 

 

I know it's not what you want to hear, but you need to eat a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables (especially dark leafy greens) , basically mostly a vegan diet with a little bit of meat or eggs. No alcohol. There may be some supplements to help you also, I'll leave some links. 

 

 

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321079.php

 

May as well give up now.

[Bonobojt]

42 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

 

May as well give up now.

Sorry I know the guys in the videos are chiropractors and it can seem a little quackery. 

 

Here are some real doctors that read the scientific literature about nutrition and health, one doctor even reversed prostate cancer with a healthy diet, check out Dr Michael Greger, Dr John McDougall, I'm just trying to help but if you prefer to just take a pill with side effects and eat whatever you want then it's your life up to you. 

 

 

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/prostate-health/

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, wgdanson said:

I have read many articles which sat the PSA number is not a good indication of prostate cancer, low reading you may still have it, high reading, not necessarily. Who know. And as for a digital examination....I do not really think a doctor can tell just by his finger up yer bum.

Actually digital examination is extremely helpful in determining whether an enlargement is suspicious for malignancy. In benign enlargement the prostate, though enlarged,  is smooth and even. A prostate that feels irregular in size, lumpy etc is an indication of possible malignancy.

 

Since the entire prostate is not felt, only the back wall of ti, it is possible to miss a cancer, i.e. a negative DRE does nto totally rule out cancer but it is a very useful tool, together with PSA, for determining whether there is a need for further investigation vs whether the enlargement is probably benign. (and of course it can rule out enlargement altogether, but most men getting a digital exam are of an age where there will be some enlargement).

 

PSA is also a useful tool. Low levels do not rule out cancer but, assuming they remain low or increase only slightly over time,  do usually rule out aggressive cancer which is what is of concern (some types of prostate cancers are slow growing).  Very high levels (over 10) usually indicate cancer unless there is some other obvious clinical explanation like  prostatitis.

 

To put it numerically, about two thirds of men with PSA over 10 turn out to have prostate cancer. For men with PSA 4 - 10 it is only about one fourth.

 

A single PSA value, unless it is extremely high, is not that meaningful but the PSA velocity (rate of increase over time) can be quite helpful, again remembering that it is aggressive cancers that are important to detect.  A sharply rising PSA (high PSA velocity) in the absence of other apparent explanation, is very suggestive of prostate cancer.

[xylophone]

4 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

Here are some real doctors that read the scientific literature about nutrition and health, one doctor even reversed prostate cancer with a healthy diet, check out Dr Michael Greger, Dr John McDougall, I'm just trying to help but if you prefer to just take a pill with side effects and eat whatever you want then it's your life up to you. 

Unfortunately the evidence for Saw Palmetto is sketchy to say the least, with many studies showing it to be no better than a placebo.

 

However the Nettle Root does show some promising results in clinical double blind trials.

[chubby]

the last decade, it has been recommended PSAs be used less,  because of false positives, and all the sometimes  needless damaging  testing and treatment from them,  but any worthwhile MD knows the test has it's place , esp at certain ages,   stick to allopathic medicine  IMO,  and filter  the  noise ...... ideally one doesn't just want "a real doctor" said this,  you want an MD who reads the current literature, and whatever random trials might be available in the main journals,   I know a friend up in CM now who went into full urinary obstruction,  very traumatizing,   take the shrinkers  , they take time anyway , but some of the adverse reactions, may not be reversible  when  stopped,  hence  apparently the  reason  some many  football  games  have  ED commercials ......

Edited May 8, 2018 by chubby
as

[MuntyC0re]

it's better to consult with a doctor

[bkk6060]

So, I formally bad mouthed Saw Palmetto.

I still question what it can do.

But, I had a PSA above 5 about several months ago.

Since, I have been taking a high quality vitamin (50 bucks a bottle) that contains many things including Saw Palmetto, pumpkin seed and nettle extract.  I also eat a lot of cooked tomatoes.

My PSA is now below 2. It went from the high 2's to low 2's to now below 2.

Anyway, who knows but I will keep taking the vitamins for sure.

 

Edited May 16, 2018 by bkk6060

[jerry921]

I was put on Avodart (dutasteride) for a while (in my early 50's) when I first got to the  point of complaining to my GP about getting up in the night. For me when I hit 2 times in one night that was the point of asking my doctor about it. Took and passed the usual tests to rule out cancer and confirm BPH diagnosis. This was all in the US.

 

It helped. I had no side effects. In a few months I got back to the point of having no trips to pee during the night. After about a year or so, my insurance sent me a letter and said they would no longer pay for it, so I stopped taking it, as by that point I couldn't be sure whether it was still shrinking or just stable.

 

In the ten years since, things have slowly gotten worse again, but somehow I adjusted and I either sleep through the night or don't remember getting up.

 

So my experience is that shrinking the problem is a good thing even if you stop the medication and let it resume enlarging. It's slow enough that you can buy yourself a lot of time that way. The insurance company was probably right to force me to stop taking it after a while.

Edited May 16, 2018 by jerry921

[bkk6060]

14 hours ago, jerry921 said:

I was put on Avodart (dutasteride) for a while (in my early 50's) when I first got to the  point of complaining to my GP about getting up in the night. For me when I hit 2 times in one night that was the point of asking my doctor about it. Took and passed the usual tests to rule out cancer and confirm BPH diagnosis. This was all in the US.

 

It helped. I had no side effects. In a few months I got back to the point of having no trips to pee during the night. After about a year or so, my insurance sent me a letter and said they would no longer pay for it, so I stopped taking it, as by that point I couldn't be sure whether it was still shrinking or just stable.

 

In the ten years since, things have slowly gotten worse again, but somehow I adjusted and I either sleep through the night or don't remember getting up.

 

So my experience is that shrinking the problem is a good thing even if you stop the medication and let it resume enlarging. It's slow enough that you can buy yourself a lot of time that way. The insurance company was probably right to force me to stop taking it after a while.

Why was the insurance company right?

I generally hate them.....

You can buy it over the counter here my friend said it is not that expensive. Isn't there a generic also?

But, you probably know that.

Edited May 16, 2018 by bkk6060

[jerry921]

I'd say they were right because it was no longer clear that the medicine was doing any additional good or that I needed to continue to take it or pay for it. I'm being generous to the insurance company, though. Most people get really angry when they're told that something won't be paid for any more even if they don't still need to be taking it.

Maybe I will go back on it for a while, have to think about it and ask my current doctor. I'm taking a lot of pills for other stuff already though and of my various chronic conditions, this one isn't so bad I can't live with it.