Chinese tourists stock trading in Ubon were doing nothing wrong - because there is no Thai law to cover it

[webfact]

Chinese tourists stock trading in Ubon were doing nothing wrong - because there is no Thai law to cover it

 

Picture: Sanook

 

Sanook reported that the hands of the Thai authorities in Ubon Ratchathani were tied in the arrest of 166 Chinese nationals doing online stock trading in a "mansion" in the north eastern Thai city.

 

Police had raided the premises of the Zara Double Tree on Wednesday amid much fanfare of illegal activity.

 

But it has emerged that no arrests were made - only witness statements were taken and everyone was let go.

 

The tourists were in Thailand legally and despite it being known that each was paid for their online work there was nothing the Thais could do to arrest them or have them deported.

 

They will leave when their visas expire.

 

Thaivisa notes that Labor Department officials were in the raiding party on Wednesday and the case is likely to be much discussed as it centers on the right of foreign nationals to work online in Thailand without a work permit.

 

The tourists - all aged between 20 and 40 - were pictured working on nearly 200 computers.

 

Earlier it was reported that the Zara Double Tree was a hotel and that fines totaling more than 250,000 baht would have to be paid for not reporting the whereabouts of guests.

 

This was not even mentioned in the follow-up Sanook report yesterday in which the building was termed a "mansion".

 

SourceL Sanook

 

-- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2018-05-11

[AGareth2]

well seems like on-line work is OK

for the moment

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

"The tourists were in Thailand legally and despite it being known that each was paid for their online work there was nothing the Thais could do to arrest them or have them deported.

They will leave when their visas expire."

The above is from Sanook.  But below, Thai Rath reported:

"Fines totaling 265,000 baht or 1,600 baht per person are being paid before the stock traders will be repatriated back to China, reported Thai Rath."

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1037533-huge-raid-nets-166-chinese-nationals-using-ubon-hotel-as-base-for-stock-speculation/

 

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and a reply to it have been removed.

[KhunBENQ]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

The above is from Sanook.  But below, Thai Rath reported:

?

The above is from May 11th and says that they could not find a reason to hold/deport them.

Thai Rath article is from May 10th.

Edited May 11, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[bluesofa]

7 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

?

The above is from May 11th and says that they could not find a reason to hold/deport them.

Thai Rath article is from May 10th.

Thanks for that KhunBENQ.

So it seems from that that having said they would be deported and fined, someone has since realised there's no reason to do either?

 

[KhunBENQ]

10 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

has since realised there's no reason to do either?

Yes and that's consistent what some posters in the other thread were asking about.

What is forbidden in online stock trading?

Its touching the grey zone of working online from Thailand.

And in this case it is clear that it was working not just managing private assets.

 

Edited May 11, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[Get Real]

That is not the only thing that is not covered by the Thai law. Reason is mostly that it ain´t been updated since the modern world started.

[AsiaHand]

Any activity making money on line here ,The Thais consider it WORKING without a work permit.These Chinese were actually engaging in an illegal activity of trying to manipulate certain stocks for an illegal gain in China. I suppose that the China government ask for help in stopping them.

[Emster23]

Gotta love the keen police work in LOS. Arrest first ("well, looked like they were doing something illegal") figure what to charge them with later. Junior officers dare not ask "superior" question such as "What are we arresting them for?".

Like the bust on bridge playing elders in Pattaya ("No one can play cards without gambling") fitted up with some tax not paid on some decks to save face, or dartboards without licenses (although no one knew where to get licenses..)

[Autonuaq]

The conclusion can be that working online and the work is involved that is abroad is allowed and not seen as work that need a work permit because the Thai labour law only regulates Thailand and not abroad.

 

Which is logic because abroad the laws of Thailand has no jurestiction.

Then the second question is where you have to pay the taxes that are with the work online?

 

Receiving money you can still do in a Thai bank account as long as you respect the international tax agreement between the countries. And since you are not a residence you are allowed to choose where you pay. In Thailand or in the country of residence as long as Thailand has tax agreement to prevent paying double tax.

 

Sounds all logic.

 

[AsiaHand]

58 minutes ago, Autonuaq said:

The conclusion can be that working online and the work is involved that is abroad is allowed and not seen as work that need a work permit because the Thai labour law only regulates Thailand and not abroad.

 

Which is logic because abroad the laws of Thailand has no jurestiction.

Then the second question is where you have to pay the taxes that are with the work online?

 

Receiving money you can still do in a Thai bank account as long as you respect the international tax agreement between the countries. And since you are not a residence you are allowed to choose where you pay. In Thailand or in the country of residence as long as Thailand has tax agreement to prevent paying double tax.

 

Sounds all logic.

 

Don't forget in Thailand the cops make up the laws as they go along and as long as your butt is sitting in a chair here as you are using that computer to make money anywhere ,you are under their interpretation of their idea of the law.This is not a country where right is right and the law is the law. Oh by the way ,Has anyone been issued the new "Dart board" license yet ? I need one.

[blorg]

8 hours ago, bluesofa said:

The above is from Sanook.  But below, Thai Rath reported:

"Fines totaling 265,000 baht or 1,600 baht per person are being paid before the stock traders will be repatriated back to China, reported Thai Rath."

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1037533-huge-raid-nets-166-chinese-nationals-using-ubon-hotel-as-base-for-stock-speculation/

 

1,600 THB is the fine for not filing a TM30, the registration of a foreigner's accommodation. It's meant to be done by the hotel or landlord but a lot of people get stuck with this fine, if they live in a province where immigration cares about it (many immigration offices including Bangkok don't), and they haven't reported for whatever reason. A retired person who owns their own condo but doesn't file a TM30 every time they come in to Thailand will be fined this. It's nothing to do with working or not working.

"Earlier it was reported that the Zara Double Tree was a hotel and that fines totaling more than 250,000 baht would have to be paid for not reporting the whereabouts of guests."

[bluesofa]

17 minutes ago, blorg said:

9 hours ago, bluesofa said:

"Fines totaling 265,000 baht or 1,600 baht per person are being paid before the stock traders will be repatriated back to China, reported Thai Rath."

 

1,600 THB is the fine for not filing a TM30, the registration of a foreigner's accommodation. It's meant to be done by the hotel or landlord but a lot of people get stuck with this fine, if they live in a province where immigration cares about it (many immigration offices including Bangkok don't), and they haven't reported for whatever reason. A retired person who owns their own condo but doesn't file a TM30 every time they come in to Thailand will be fined this. It's nothing to do with working or not working.

"Earlier it was reported that the Zara Double Tree was a hotel and that fines totaling more than 250,000 baht would have to be paid for not reporting the whereabouts of guests."

Hmm, 265,000 Baht divided by 1,600 Baht per person must mean there were 165.625 people involved.

There I go, bringing logic into it. Btw, I thought the fine for not filing a TM30 was 800 Baht - or does it depend it there's an 'r' in the month?

 

[mjnaus]

3 hours ago, AsiaHand said:

Any activity making money on line here ,The Thais consider it WORKING without a work permit.These Chinese were actually engaging in an illegal activity of trying to manipulate certain stocks for an illegal gain in China. I suppose that the China government ask for help in stopping them.

 

That's an odd statement to make just after Thai authorities clearly stated the Chinese gentlemen weren't doing anything wrong and there won't be any consequences. But by all means, do keep beating that drum!

Edited May 11, 2018 by mjnaus

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

You honestly sound rather silly making such statements just after Thai authorities stated the Chinese gentlemen weren't doing anything wrong and there won't be any consequences. But by all means, do keep beating that drum!

 

Your naivety clearly shines through your comment. 

 

100's of guys were arrested for working illegally.... then all of a sudden there is an announcement that they had done nothing wrong...

 

.... of course, it couldn't be that a significant amount of changed hands to 'make the issue disappear' with a little face saving measure of smaller fines (TM30 forms not filled) thrown in to keep up appearances... 

 

The guys who got caught simply played the game correctly... 

[mjnaus]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

Your naivety clearly shines through your comment. 

 

 

The same thing can be said for your wild imagination...

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

The same thing can be said for your wild imagination...

 

..read this thread again when you are all big and grown up and more resilient to having the wool pulled over your eyes.... 

 

[blorg]

47 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

Hmm, 265,000 Baht divided by 1,600 Baht per person must mean there were 165.625 people involved.

There I go, bringing logic into it. Btw, I thought the fine for not filing a TM30 was 800 Baht - or does it depend it there's an 'r' in the month?

 

1,600 is definitely the fine for not having a TM30, I know because Chiang Mai is one of the immigration offices that do care about it and that is what people are fined here if they haven't done it. You can just do a search, TM30 fine, there are reports all over the web as well as here on Thaivisa and it is definitely 1,600. I've also talked to people complaining they had to pay it! For sure it is 1,600. And anyway that is specifically what the article SAYS they are being fined for,  "for not reporting the whereabouts of guests", aka not filing TM30, and and from the phrasing it seems to be the hotel that is being fined, which is also consistent with it being a TM30 fine.

As to the calculation, 1,600B x 166 people (as reported) = 265,600, so it appears they are rounding that down to the nearest 1,000. The other article says "more than 250,000" which would also be right. You can try to contort yourself into believing this fine is for something else, but I am telling you, this is what the fine is for, not filing TM30s, not for working or anything else. 

 

http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-the-tm-30-form-all-you-need-to-know-about-it-and-why-it-matters-to-you-p172

[bluesofa]

47 minutes ago, blorg said:

1,600 is definitely the fine for not having a TM30, I know because Chiang Mai is one of the immigration offices that do care about it and that is what people are fined here if they haven't done it. You can just do a search, TM30 fine, there are reports all over the web as well as here on Thaivisa and it is definitely 1,600. I've also talked to people complaining they had to pay it! For sure it is 1,600. And anyway that is specifically what the article SAYS they are being fined for,  "for not reporting the whereabouts of guests", aka not filing TM30, and and from the phrasing it seems to be the hotel that is being fined, which is also consistent with it being a TM30 fine.

As to the calculation, 1,600B x 166 people (as reported) = 265,600, so it appears they are rounding that down to the nearest 1,000. The other article says "more than 250,000" which would also be right. You can try to contort yourself into believing this fine is for something else, but I am telling you, this is what the fine is for, not filing TM30s, not for working or anything else. 

 

http://www.chiangmailocator.com/wiki-the-tm-30-form-all-you-need-to-know-about-it-and-why-it-matters-to-you-p172

It seems Chiang Mai and also Jomtien make up their own fines of 1,600 Baht, perhaps there may be other offices doing the same.

The fine is is still officially 800 Baht. In Udon they charge 800 Baht, but I wouldn't like to say what Ubon might charge. Hence my cynical comment about having an 'r' in the month.

 

[XGM]

Thais call it "len hoon" - play with stocks. And it isn't considered work / biz activity in any shape or form.
Mind you, Thailand is also one of the only countries that don't impose any taxation on capital gains. So far. Sooner or later, that will change too.

Edited May 11, 2018 by XGM

[Redline]

It’s because they are Chinese 

[lemonjelly]

What were they doing here that they couldn’t in China? Seems rather odd to me.

[kannot]

47 minutes ago, Redline said:

It’s because they are Chinese 

yep ,simple as  that.

[cornishcarlos]

Chinese trading stocks = face saving 1600 baht fine

 

Whiteys playing Backgammon = life with no parole

 

 

[ukrules]

On 11/05/2018 at 9:07 PM, bluesofa said:

It seems Chiang Mai and also Jomtien make up their own fines of 1,600 Baht, perhaps there may be other offices doing the same.

The fine is is still officially 800 Baht. In Udon they charge 800 Baht, but I wouldn't like to say what Ubon might charge. Hence my cynical comment about having an 'r' in the month.

 

At 800 Baht it's worth just paying it once a year.

 

That and the 2000 for not bothering to do 90 day reports is just 2800 per year for a hassle free stay.

Edited May 12, 2018 by ukrules

[mommysboy]

It may be construed as illegal by strict definition, or it may be unlawful, or alternately it could be either or both but tolerated.  Or perish the thought it may just be legal.  What is becoming increasingly obvious is that most online working not directly threatening Thailand, its resources, or people is disregarded.

[Happy Grumpy]

On 5/11/2018 at 3:53 PM, AsiaHand said:

Any activity making money on line here ,The Thais consider it WORKING without a work permit.

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

On 5/11/2018 at 8:11 AM, bluesofa said:

Hmm, 265,000 Baht divided by 1,600 Baht per person must mean there were 165.625 people involved.

There I go, bringing logic into it. Btw, I thought the fine for not filing a TM30 was 800 Baht - or does it depend it there's an 'r' in the month?

 

The guy in the pic second from the left looks pretty skinny.

[balo]

The problem here is that 200 Chinese are working together in the same room ! Of course someone will warn the police. 

 

I admit I am a digital nomad myself , but only on my laptop at home.  And pay taxes to my home country .  But avoid working in groups and in public places or someone might call the police. 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2018 by balo