How to heal my gut after antibiotics?

[tropo]

8 hours ago, laislica said:

 

There is a protein in wheat called Glutin and it is hard to digest.

In our stomach we have villi which absorb the digested nutrients into the blood stream.

Digested means that the protein peptides are broken into smaller molecules bu the action of enzimes.

The enzymes that "snip" proteins down in size only work in a very acid stomach and here is one problem.

Wheat is a carbohydrate and we chew it a lot which incorporates a lot of saliva and saliva is alcaline, thus diluting any acid that the stomach needs.

 

There is a nice description of the digestive system:

The vili are like a sea anemone but the villi are covered in a thin cheese cloth.

The cheese cloth has very small holes in it and thus only tiny molecules can pass through and into the blood.

 

Large, partially digested peptides are dense and can "rip an hole" in the cheese cloth.

This allows larger molecules to pass into the blood.

These large molecules can then attach themselves to various organs and they are alien.

Our immune system sees them and attacks and kills of these "invaders".

This is a correct response, the immune system is doing it's job.

 

Unfortunately partially digested molecules of all the food you are eating can pass into the blood.

The immune system now becomes sensitive to these "invaders" and starts to destroy them.

Also knocking out some wanted cells from our organs.

Now we have the start of an immune disease.

Allow this process to continue for a number of years and you may have Hasishimoto's thyroid disease or any one of the many immune diseases.

 

It takes 10's of thousands of years for us to become accustomed to a new food.

Wheat has not really been in the food chain for long enough and it seems that many folk suffer from the effects of partially digested food entering the blood.

 

We know that someone with celiac disease should never eat wheat, in any form, however, if you are sensitive to glutin, then it would be wise to avoid wheat as well.

 

Avoid, hmmmmm.

The immune system becomes excited by adjutants such as these large proteins and the heavy metals they use in some vaccines.

Therefore, if one is sensitive to wheat then it must be totally excluded from your diet.

Why, because even after months of exclusion the immune system is still correctly excited and if it sees the same old invaders again, it will ramp up it's sensitivity and start to self destruct organs again.....

 

Is wheat a food or a drug?

 

Whole wheat is a food but the highly processed white stuff called flour may be more like a drug.

It has been processed to an amazing extent, had fiber removed, been bleached and heavens knows what else has been added.

Flour is actually turned into blood sugar faster than table sugar.....

Eating sugar releases the feel good hormones in the brains in exactly the same way as drugs like cocaine do.

Therefore, sugars (and flour ends up as a sugar), are extremely addictive.

Giving up bread and products with flour can therefore be somewhat of a challenge.

26

30

I don't believe your 10,000-year theory. Wheat has been a staple food since the birth of mankind... but we are just basing one theory on another.. which will end up with us discussing the pros and cons of the theory of evolution... don't want to go there..

 

Wheat digests slower than many other starchy foods, therefore it can give erroneous postprandial blood sugar readings (delayed spikes)... but if your intestinal flora are balanced and up to scratch, you should have no problem with it. It's a compromised digestive system that causes the problem. A healthy digestive system can handle wheat and most other foods you throw at it.

 

I've been consuming kefir for 7 years straight, on a daily basis. I no longer have digestive disturbances, which were quite frequent prior to my kefir drinking days. Wheat causes no problems at all.  

Edited May 14, 2018 by tropo

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Bonobojt said:

I'm very aware of the BRAT diet, I looked into it on Google and apparently it is not recommended anymore due to lack of nutrition and calories, that's just what I read. 

 

 

Well, quite possibly but it's only for a few days hopefully.  But the main thing is that you need to give your guts chance to recover.  But I don't think there is an exact regime.  For instance when I was recovering from a serious upset caused by appendicitis, I ate crap food for many months- it's all I wanted and it was right for me. 

[laislica]

44 minutes ago, tropo said:

I don't believe your 10,000-year theory. Wheat has been a staple food since the birth of mankind... but we are just basing one theory on another.. which will end up with us discussing the pros and cons of the theory of evolution... don't want to go there..

 

Wheat digests slower than many other starchy foods, therefore it can give erroneous postprandial blood sugar readings (delayed spikes)... but if your intestinal flora are balanced and up to scratch, you should have no problem with it. It's a compromised digestive system that causes the problem. A healthy digestive system can handle wheat and most other foods you throw at it.

 

I've been consuming kefir for 7 years straight, on a daily basis. I no longer have digestive disturbances, which were quite frequent prior to my kefir drinking days. Wheat causes no problems at all.  

 

 

Wheat, Hmmmmm.

What strain?

The old original ones are hardly available any more, been bred out.

The manufactures have wheat which has the most glutin, bread rises better etc.

The old low glutein wheat was easier to digest - less glutin.

But as you say, let's not get bogged down in the trivia.

 

As you say, in a well balanced gut, almost anything goes.

However, if your diet has been more junk than nutrition, then chances are your gut flora is not balanced.

Nor the acid strength etc.

Therefore it would be useful for those of us with dodgy tums to find out if we are wheat intolerant?

 

Simple, cut out all flour products for a month and keep daily notes on how you feel.

If you feel better, then you know what to do?

 

Same goes for dairy.

 

Rice has an affinity with the heavy metal arsenic so that's a possible downside.

Here is an interesting link:

https://www.verywellfit.com/is-rice-gluten-free-562773

 

In the past (in my late 30's early 40's) I suffered from upset tums, acid reflux and all that.

I was drinking milk of magnesia several times a day for years.

 

I read up on food combining and ate a protein meal with low carb veggies and no carbs as such or a carb meal with veggies that were low in protein. (it's more complicated than this one liner of course - I read four books on the subject)

In a month I fixed a problem that had been hell for years.

 

Later I went on a 6 week veggie juice diet, lost loads of fat and improved my health no end.

I just never found a way to make it a lifestyle.

 

Now eating only when I'm hungry seems to do the job.

Having many hours per day not eating at all is working.

I no longer have a need to nibble constantly.

I feel full!!!!

I'm not constantly thinking about food. Perhaps I have reset some of my hormones, Leptin and Ghrelen as examples?

 

Some days I hardly eat but others I eat a lot.

My body seems to trust that over a few days, it will be given enough food so it does not seem to have down regulated my metabolic rate.

 

I have loads of energy, no brain fog, so I'm quite content.

 

If Kefir works for you, that's excellent news, keep up the good work.

 

If you are referring to processed white flour products, then I would take issue about the digestion rate for wheat.

 

I agree that whole wheat with all three parts is slow to digest but if the wheat is refined (white flour) to only provide the endosperm then it digests very quickly.

A kernel of wheat consists of three parts. The bran is the outer covering of the kernel and is high in fiber.

The germ is the innermost portion of the kernel and is high in fat.

The endosperm makes up the bulk of the kernel and is high in proteins and carbohydrates and is what we know as white flour.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

37 minutes ago, laislica said:

 

 

Wheat, Hmmmmm.

What strain?

The old original ones are hardly available any more, been bred out.

The manufactures have wheat which has the most glutin, bread rises better etc.

The old low glutein wheat was easier to digest - less glutin.

But as you say, let's not get bogged down in the trivia.

 

As you say, in a well balanced gut, almost anything goes.

However, if your diet has been more junk than nutrition, then chances are your gut flora is not balanced.

Nor the acid strength etc.

Therefore it would be useful for those of us with dodgy tums to find out if we are wheat intolerant?

 

Simple, cut out all flour products for a month and keep daily notes on how you feel.

If you feel better, then you know what to do?

 

Same goes for dairy.

 

Rice has an affinity with the heavy metal arsenic so that's a possible downside.

Here is an interesting link:

https://www.verywellfit.com/is-rice-gluten-free-562773

 

In the past (in my late 30's early 40's) I suffered from upset tums, acid reflux and all that.

I was drinking milk of magnesia several times a day for years.

 

I read up on food combining and ate a protein meal with low carb veggies and no carbs as such or a carb meal with veggies that were low in protein. (it's more complicated than this one liner of course - I read four books on the subject)

In a month I fixed a problem that had been hell for years.

 

Later I went on a 6 week veggie juice diet, lost loads of fat and improved my health no end.

I just never found a way to make it a lifestyle.

 

Now eating only when I'm hungry seems to do the job.

Having many hours per day not eating at all is working.

I no longer have a need to nibble constantly.

I feel full!!!!

I'm not constantly thinking about food. Perhaps I have reset some of my hormones, Leptin and Ghrelen as examples?

 

Some days I hardly eat but others I eat a lot.

My body seems to trust that over a few days, it will be given enough food so it does not seem to have down regulated my metabolic rate.

 

I have loads of energy, no brain fog, so I'm quite content.

 

If Kefir works for you, that's excellent news, keep up the good work.

 

If you are referring to processed white flour products, then I would take issue about the digestion rate for wheat.

 

I agree that whole wheat with all three parts is slow to digest but if the wheat is refined (white flour) to only provide the endosperm then it digests very quickly.

A kernel of wheat consists of three parts. The bran is the outer covering of the kernel and is high in fiber.

The germ is the innermost portion of the kernel and is high in fat.

The endosperm makes up the bulk of the kernel and is high in proteins and carbohydrates and is what we know as white flour.

 

11

Although we meet somewhere in the middle, you solved your digestive problems by eliminating foods you can't digest well. I solved them by improving my digestion through fortification of the intestinal flora. Irrespective of the health content of food, I don't have any problems with digestion, and it doesn't matter how I combine foods. The weaker your digestive system, the more foods you will have to avoid as incomplete digestion of food causes many problems (as you highlighted in your last post).

 

 That's not to say I subsist on white bread as I tend to go for healthy foods.

 

I also never eat until I'm hungry. I don't adhere to any clock and often go long periods without eating.

Edited May 14, 2018 by tropo

[laislica]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

Although we meet somewhere in the middle, you solved your digestive problems by eliminating foods you can't digest well. I solved them by improving my digestion through fortification of the intestinal flora. Irrespective of the health content of food, I don't have any problems with digestion, and it doesn't matter how I combine foods. The weaker your digestive system, the more foods you will have to avoid as incomplete digestion of food causes many problems (as you highlighted in your last thread).

 

 That's not to say I subsist on white bread as I tend to go for healthy foods.

 

I also never eat until I'm hungry. I don't adhere to any clock and often go long periods without eating.

Since those days of 30 odd years ago when I fixed my reflux problem, I can eat anything and I do not have digestion problems.

I also eat lots of raw garlic with most meals.

The only additive in my food is sea salt and turmeric.

 

I found out that the amount of protein we need is the size of one's palm and that thickness too.

Per DAY, not three times a day LOL.

That we need fat otherwise fat soluble vitamins cann't be processed properly.

 

Actually, eating fat makes me feel full.

 

Since I gave up dairy and wheat I feel much better.

My % body fat is getting closer to optimum and no food cravings.

What ever I'm doing is sure working for me and by the sounds of it, your method works well for you.

The point here is that those with dodgy tums may benefit from a spot of exclusion experimentation.

 

Shall we talk about heavy metal detoxification?

When a body is critically loaded with toxins, it takes but one small straw to break the camels back and it can be any straw......

 

 

[Bonobojt]

Maybe I should of named this topic How to heal your gut after a Giardia infection, as that seems to be the issue, not the antibiotic. 

Finished antibiotics yesterday, my gut feels off and kind of nausea like but I've been told and I'm aware that it can take a while to recover back to normal. 

 

I'll do a stool test again to make sure I'm all clear 

[poanoi]

i like richesse strawberry yogurt ,  got extra milk bacteria and arent as sweet as the typical yogurts

[tropo]

17 hours ago, laislica said:

Since those days of 30 odd years ago when I fixed my reflux problem, I can eat anything and I do not have digestion problems.

I also eat lots of raw garlic with most meals.

The only additive in my food is sea salt and turmeric.

 

I found out that the amount of protein we need is the size of one's palm and that thickness too.

Per DAY, not three times a day LOL.

That we need fat otherwise fat soluble vitamins cann't be processed properly.

 

Actually, eating fat makes me feel full.

 

Since I gave up dairy and wheat I feel much better.

My % body fat is getting closer to optimum and no food cravings.

What ever I'm doing is sure working for me and by the sounds of it, your method works well for you.

The point here is that those with dodgy tums may benefit from a spot of exclusion experimentation.

 

Shall we talk about heavy metal detoxification?

When a body is critically loaded with toxins, it takes but one small straw to break the camels back and it can be any straw......

 

 

I consume a fair bit of Lugol's iodine solution, which I make myself. That helps to detoxify from fluorine, chlorine and bromine which can interfere with thyroid function. I don't worry about heavy metals, but iodine can help detoxify mercury and lead. There are too many things to worry about - then you die anyway.

Edited May 15, 2018 by tropo

[tropo]

25 minutes ago, poanoi said:

i like richesse strawberry yogurt ,  got extra milk bacteria and arent as sweet as the typical yogurts

Why not go for natural yoghurts and add your own flavours and fruit?

[poanoi]

Just now, tropo said:

Why not go for natural yoghurts and add your own flavours and fruit?

i'm not that diligent or full of energy,

the richesse strawberry is the best tasting i tried in thailand,

so i kinda stick to what works

[tropo]

Just now, poanoi said:

i'm not that diligent or full of energy,

the richesse strawberry is the best tasting i tried in thailand,

so i kinda stick to what works

I've had plenty of that too, but after awhile I got tired of it. These days I buy 1kg tubs of natural yoghurt. If I want it sweet I add some honey and some fruit. I look for specials on Australian yoghurt. Dairy Farmers has some really nice ones, and Yoplait is nice too... but pretty expensive at full price. You'll find these (1kg tubs) at half price sometimes at Big C Extra. The date doesn't matter with yoghurt - it's fine months after the expiry date.

[Bonobojt]

Just read on the Havard Health website page for Giardia

 

"Symptoms can take as long as several months to completely go away after treatment because the intestine needs to repair itself. It is common to be intolerant to milk and other dairy products that contain lactose for the first few months after a Giardia infection."

 

My appetite is fine, no diarrhoea, my only symptom is my gut feeling off/upset nausea kinda feeling and my gut makes some sounds sometimes like when your hungry. Its only day 1 after the treatment, still early days I guess. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by Bonobojt

[poanoi]

just reading about going on long time without eating :

what do you do with your time then ?

i now eat just 2-3 meals a day and boy is this a shit life or what ?

thats not even counting the fact i no longer drink beer at all,

or go out, so, what is left in life ?

[Bonobojt]

So I typed Giardia Diet onto Google and it looks like I was wrong about the BRAT diet, found 2 websites that suggest doing the BRAT diet for a few days

https://www.livestrong.com/article/283332-giardia-treatment-diet/

 

Today I made myself an omelette and afterwards realised I really shouldn't be eating fried foods, and I've been eating oranges and just read that I should be avoiding citrus fruit, OK ill start the BRAT diet tomorrow and its oatmeal for dinner tonight. 

[mommysboy]

27 minutes ago, Bonobojt said:

So I typed Giardia Diet onto Google and it looks like I was wrong about the BRAT diet, found 2 websites that suggest doing the BRAT diet for a few days

https://www.livestrong.com/article/283332-giardia-treatment-diet/

 

Today I made myself an omelette and afterwards realised I really shouldn't be eating fried foods, and I've been eating oranges and just read that I should be avoiding citrus fruit, OK ill start the BRAT diet tomorrow and its oatmeal for dinner tonight. 

I have always found porridge a great balancer.  Just gets boring day after day.

[laislica]

On 5/15/2018 at 5:15 PM, mommysboy said:

I have always found porridge a great balancer.  Just gets boring day after day.

 

Shame that there is little nutrition in porridge oats....

 

If recovering from an illness that needed antibiotics, your body needs good nutrition and everything that helps your body repopulate with the "good bacteria".

.

That's not to say lotsa stuff - just the best you can consume.

 

So a good probiotic with millions of different Good bacteria and fiber rich plant foods that feed em is a great start.

 

Also  small steady steps, there is no rush.....

Learn to listen to your body and react accordingly.....

 

poaoni wrote about fasting and asked what's in it for him.

 

Better health.

What could be better than that?

 

It's not like you do this forever, just a short time and from time to time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

On 5/15/2018 at 10:15 PM, mommysboy said:

I have always found porridge a great balancer.  Just gets boring day after day.

I agree. I enjoy oats every now and then, but can't face them on a daily basis. When I do eat them, I eat them for dinner, not breakfast.

[xylophone]

On ‎15‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 10:15 PM, mommysboy said:

I have always found porridge a great balancer.  Just gets boring day after day.

Yep I should eat more of it, however I do try and vary it a little by sprinkling chopped walnuts or pumpkin seeds or similar on it, plus a little milk with perhaps a drizzle of maple syrup!!!

[Justfine]

Porridge = glue. Barely tastes like food.

[robblok]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

I agree. I enjoy oats every now and then, but can't face them on a daily basis. When I do eat them, I eat them for dinner, not breakfast.

I eat them every morning, don't get bored with them at all. But on the other hand they are not the tastiest thing I ever ate but fill me good and give me fuel. 

[jakestevernson]

Laislcia continues to make excellent contributions.

I am still recovering after nearly a year from a stomach bug I had. I am training very well and the gastritis I am suffering from hasn't made me miss any days off work. However, it's frustrating and annoying. I am just hoping that managing what I eat, taking a probiotic supplement and only having very limited amounts of alcohol and simple sugars will get me sorted eventually.

JS

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[Bonobojt]

I tried the BRAT bland food (white toast and bananas for 2 days and it did help with the nausa but I lost weight abit (I lose weight easily and I'm naturally a skinny guy) 

 

Today is day 1 of going back to eating normal and taking my supplements. 

 

My current diet is roughly :

 

Breakfast : porridge with flax seeds, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, raisins, walnut, cinnamon, banana 

 

Snack: Apple and 2 weetabix with soy milk

 

Lunch: 2 wholemeal plain toast, half a can of black beans and some fresh herbs like basil, and a vegetable like cucumber or tomato. 

 

Dinner: porridge with ground cloves,  the rest of the black beans mixed with garlic, turmeric, black pepper, extra virgin olive oil, sea salt, nori seaweed, and some raw spinach. 

 

I am drinking Kefir first thing in the morning and taking a probiotic before dinner with a soy yogurt. 

 

I may change a few things as time goes on but this is mainly what I would eat

 

I also got a B12 supplement as I'm not going to be eating meat or eggs much. 

My gut is still not right but I am noticing slow improvements. 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Bonobojt

[Bonobojt]

8 hours ago, jakestevernson said:

Laislcia continues to make excellent contributions.

I am still recovering after nearly a year from a stomach bug I had. I am training very well and the gastritis I am suffering from hasn't made me miss any days off work. However, it's frustrating and annoying. I am just hoping that managing what I eat, taking a probiotic supplement and only having very limited amounts of alcohol and simple sugars will get me sorted eventually.

JS

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

I highly recommend you read the book by Dr Robynne Chutkan called the Microbiome Solution. She is a gut doctor and expert on gut health. 

 

But the main thing I got from the book was that Antibiotics are very bad and what you eat is very important for your gut bacteria, a more plant based diet with lots of fiber is best, meat is OK sometimes but due to poor factory farm Conditions the animals are given antibiotics so when we eat meat, we are getting the antibiotics too. Organic grass fed meat is better if you can afford it.. 

[jakestevernson]

Thanks Bonobojt, I will check out the book, it sounds like a lot of good advice similar to what I have read in a few other books recently.

Whole foods, not processed and organic if possible is what I am doing. Definitely a lot more vegetables and reduced carbs. Hopefully, in time, my bloating will get better.

JS

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

[laislica]

15 hours ago, jakestevernson said:

Thanks Bonobojt, I will check out the book, it sounds like a lot of good advice similar to what I have read in a few other books recently.

Whole foods, not processed and organic if possible is what I am doing. Definitely a lot more vegetables and reduced carbs. Hopefully, in time, my bloating will get better.

JS

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

May I suggest that you look into food combining.

I briefly mentioned it in an earlier post.

 

Being aware of how different foods are processed differently in our GI helps you eat compatible things so that you get the best digestion and nutrition extraction from the food.

Eating everything mixed, means that nothing tends to be properly digested.

This may not be too bad in someone like Tropo for instance (he seems to have an excellent and bullet proof GI).., but for someone with a dodgy GI it becomes a source of chronic illness.

 

A period of time when you separate protein and carbohydrates and eat fruit apart from any other foods may give your body a chance to recover more quickly.

It did for me as I said before, but you must do your own research and become familiar with all digestive processes.

 

Supplemention is still a controversial subject.

Not all supplements are equal, some are excellent and others may be down right dangerous when not taken in the right combinations, or if the source of the suppliment is not bio-available....  Another mine field.

 

e.g.:

A friend decided to quit dairy about 30 years ago.

She was worried that she would not get enough calcium from food so she took a calcium supplement for years.

She was not balancing it with magnesium, nor were here vitamin D levels correct.

The calcium she was taking did not go into her bones as she was hoping.

Instead, it calcified her arteries and heart valves.

She needed major surgery to replace her heart valves.

 

Used correctly, they can be super, but in the wrong doses and combinations, possibly deadly.

 

A little knowledge can be dangerous.

IMHO, one of the reasons that the Mods on threads like this are vigilant about the content of posts is to try to ensure that safety is maintained and that information given is of the nature of what we have done or are doing and how it affected our health. (Thanks Sheryl)

It is vital that everyone researches carefully and gets good advice that does not cause unforeseen problems (like the calcification one I mentioned).

 

We should also note that we are all different in our genetics and what might work for one may not work for another.

We need to learn to listen to our bodies.

 

I am really enjoying this thread and love some of the great ideas that have been swapped.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

47 minutes ago, laislica said:

 

It is vital that everyone researches carefully and gets good advice that does not cause unforeseen problems (like the calcification one I mentioned).

 

The calcification problem is probably a deficiency of magnesium AND boron. Most of you are boron and magnesium deficient. It has been noted in a few countries (there aren't many) that have sufficient boron in the soil that the incidence of arthritis is extremely low (less than 1%). Few agricultural soils have sufficient boron. My arthritic pains virtually disappeared when I started taking it. Better late than never. I wish I'd known this when I was younger before the damage was done. I aim for about 20mg of elemental boron per day, and about 400mg of magnesium. Magnesium can be tricky as you have to find a bioavailable form that doesn't upset your bowels as some forms can really increase GI motility. Magnesium can be a great, natural laxative.

 

 

Edited May 19, 2018 by tropo

[welovethailand]

Tumeric

[laislica]

On 5/19/2018 at 11:49 AM, tropo said:

The calcification problem is probably a deficiency of magnesium AND boron. Most of you are boron and magnesium deficient. It has been noted in a few countries (there aren't many) that have sufficient boron in the soil that the incidence of arthritis is extremely low (less than 1%). Few agricultural soils have sufficient boron. My arthritic pains virtually disappeared when I started taking it. Better late than never. I wish I'd known this when I was younger before the damage was done. I aim for about 20mg of elemental boron per day, and about 400mg of magnesium. Magnesium can be tricky as you have to find a bioavailable form that doesn't upset your bowels as some forms can really increase GI motility. Magnesium can be a great, natural laxative.

 

 

I have heard that magnesium is best taken on an empty stomach to help absorption.

One idea was to take it in the middle of the night when you go to pee.....

[tropo]

22 minutes ago, laislica said:

I have heard that magnesium is best taken on an empty stomach to help absorption.

One idea was to take it in the middle of the night when you go to pee.....

I  would suggest magnesium glycinate lysinate chelate or magnesium bisglycinate. (from  iHerb). Neither will cause any GI disturbances. Just before bedtime is a good time because it helps you sleep.

[Justfine]

2 hours ago, laislica said:

I have heard that magnesium is best taken on an empty stomach to help absorption.

One idea was to take it in the middle of the night when you go to pee.....

I take night multis. They make be sleepy after 20 mins.