Options after being warned by DMK immigration

[prb]

Good Morning,

 

On my last entry end of april I have been taken out of the queue at DMK and warned by an officer not to come back next time without a tourist Visa.

 

I had to get the stamp at a special desk but apparently the stamp is the usual one, no red writing or whatever.

 

My recent history in the passport is :  1 entry end of september 2017 and one extension ; 1 tourist visa from PP in november 2017 and one extension. So around 5 months in the country end of 2017, beginning of 2018.

I spent mid february to mid april in Philippines, so 2 months out the country that would prove I don't work illegaly in LOS but it does not seem to interest them...

Moreover i have on that passport quite a lot of visa exemption and extensions from 2015 and 2016.

 

I have few questions in mind before planning my next move.

In general i do what i am told to do but I am a bit annoyed to do a touris visa that i will certainly only partially use as i will go back in europe for the summer.

 

So:

- Tourist visas: as i have already a tourist visa issued in PP in november 2017, how many tourist visas can i do per year  in Cambodia, Laos and maybe Myanmar (i'm not sure it is still possible to do one in that country)

- The 2 visa exemption per land crossing per year: if i do a land crossing for the first time this year, will i get one whatever the "bad look" of my passport

- New Passport: when i my home country I will apply for a new passport, that one is almost full anyway. Will that erase my history for the immigration at the airport?

- In the worse case scenario: if one day i am denied entry at the airport, are the costs of the ticket to go back taken in charge by the airline? Will the airline then blacklist me?

 

Thanks

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by prb

[BritTim]

Avoid visa exempt entries from now on. You would probably be lucky and be allowed in, but the official has discretion to deny you entry visa exempt, and it is just too risky. You will need to plan your life in such a way that you can get tourist visas for your visits.

[Senechal]

It's not really clear why you were pulled aside. If you're spending that much time outside of Thailand, it's unusual that there would be any issues.

What is your nationality?

[prb]

I'm French. As stated i have a fair number of Visa exemptions and extensions for the last 3 years

The only thing IO was saying is "you need visa next time, no more free entry, you have too much free entry, you have to pay... " etc...

 

If someone has some info regarding my questions :); thx

Edited May 14, 2018 by prb

[flyingdoc]

There seems to be no hard and fast rule, and I can see why many people are worried.  In the UK things have been made even more difficult, by taking away the power of Thai Consulates to issue visas any more, and making it more difficult to obtain one by post from the Embassy in London.

So, to sum up, visas are now more difficult to obtain, yet V.E. entries are being arbitrarily clamped down upon.  In addition, if you have a visa as they want, and you travel around during that period, you must pay for a re-entry every single time?

Does this really encourage tourism, when some other countries nearby, issue 3 month visas, or allow visas to be obtained at the point of entry?

[Soneva]

It’s relatively easy to get tourist visas.  I would absolutely not risk trying to enter without a tourist visa anytime soon.  

 

If arriving by air, BKK is more “friendly” than DMK, but you will still need your tourist visas. 

 

You should additionally always have at leasy ฿20,000 cash on you when you enter.  Also, being able to show bank statements, as well as a ticket out of Thailand when you enter is a good idea.  

 

Those are things that can help you convincingly argue that you are a “genuine tourist” - for all intents and purposes - and that you are not someone working illegally in Thailand.  

 

Again, I think you should have entered at BKK airport.  Or, if you are travelling regionally, it is even better to use land boarders (not Aranyaprathet), and then take a domestic flight or ground transportation to wherever you are going in Thailand. 

[NoshowJones]

2 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

There seems to be no hard and fast rule, and I can see why many people are worried.  In the UK things have been made even more difficult, by taking away the power of Thai Consulates to issue visas any more, and making it more difficult to obtain one by post from the Embassy in London.

So, to sum up, visas are now more difficult to obtain, yet V.E. entries are being arbitrarily clamped down upon.  In addition, if you have a visa as they want, and you travel around during that period, you must pay for a re-entry every single time?

Does this really encourage tourism, when some other countries nearby, issue 3 month visas, or allow visas to be obtained at the point of entry?

Of course there is no hard and fast rule, this is Thailand where most of the time officials make up their own rules.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

In the UK things have been made even more difficult, by taking away the power of Thai Consulates to issue visas any more, and making it more difficult to obtain one by post from the Embassy in London.

Utter nonsense.

Thai Consulates still issue Tourist Visas.

Non Imm O Visas can only be issued by the Thai Embassy in London and are issued by post without any issues provided you qualify. 

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Of course there is no hard and fast rule, this is Thailand where most of the time officials make up their own rules.

According to your previous posts your on a Non Imm O ME, so how would you know about Thailand's Immigration offices, their rules or the law.

[VBF]

3 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

There seems to be no hard and fast rule, and I can see why many people are worried.  In the UK things have been made even more difficult, by taking away the power of Thai Consulates to issue visas any more, and making it more difficult to obtain one by post from the Embassy in London.

So, to sum up, visas are now more difficult to obtain, yet V.E. entries are being arbitrarily clamped down upon.  In addition, if you have a visa as they want, and you travel around during that period, you must pay for a re-entry every single time?

Does this really encourage tourism, when some other countries nearby, issue 3 month visas, or allow visas to be obtained at the point of entry?

Not quite correct - the consulates can still issue visas but not by post, so effectively concentrating on local people, or those who wish to travel to them.

 

More importantly, Tourist Visas (SETV at least) are very easy to get from London either in person which requires 2 trips to the Embassy on consecutive days, or easier still by post for those of us who don't live in London.

I've done the latter annually for the past 3 years and each time my PP has been back in less than a week.

[NoshowJones]

10 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

According to your previous posts your on a Non Imm O ME, so how would you know about Thailand's Immigration offices, their rules or the law.

Wrong. No I am not. I have read many posters experiences here in Thaivisa over the years and experienced them for myself. OK?

[HampiK]

3 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

Does this really encourage tourism, when some other countries nearby, issue 3 month visas, or allow visas to be obtained at the point of entry?

Actually I think this have almost no affect on tourism. As 99% of the tourists will stay 4 weeks or even less in Thailand.

The only who always complain are people who stay in Thailand more than 2-3 months per year which mostly is not a standart tourist. And let's face it if less than 1% would not come to Thailand because of this they would not even know it.

[StayinThailand2much]

9 hours ago, Senechal said:

It's not really clear why you were pulled aside. If you're spending that much time outside of Thailand, it's unusual that there would be any issues.

What is your nationality?

Weren't there reports that they started counting visa exemptions a few years ago, with six or more in a passport being reason to scrutinize the passport holder's travels to Thailand?

[darrendsd]

5 minutes ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Weren't there reports that they started counting visa exemptions a few years ago, with six or more in a passport being reason to scrutinize the passport holder's travels to Thailand?

Yes and this is still active

[StayinThailand2much]

3 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Of course there is no hard and fast rule, this is Thailand where most of the time officials make up their own rules.

100% spot on! Years ago, I had a girlfriend who worked in a local government office. The officials there were not only racist pricks (quote: "Falang have Aids..."), but also made up regulations on the go, which were sometimes so stupid that, actually, these regulations were almost thrown out by their superiors, but, in the end, were still enacted, just to 'save face'...

[BEVUP]

I vvould come every mth to Thailand on visa exempt & that vvould of been 5 yr + until one day they pulled me out of the line 

The vvomen vvas giving me a hard time so I told her no problems I vvill just go to Vietnam

So she said vvhat about your vvife (she actually talked to her on my phone )

Then she vvrote something in passport

but upon leaving through the airport the IO officer seen vvhat she vvrote & didn't care 

[BuckBee]

History in your passport made it worse, trouble is they quick to shoot without checking dates, I had same issue at swampy and I hadn't been in thailand for 18months and O and tourist visas I had went back over 6yrs with big time spans between use but officer just assume worst and check nothing.

I had a good session with grumpy senior officer who would only speak thai and obsessed I working in Thailand even when showing them clear evidence of working in singapore and taiwan .  I let them state that I had been back to back for alomst 3 years then pointed out the facts and that you don't get stamps from your home country :-)

All worked out good but did have show funds, I wanted rip right into the senior IO but bit my tongue, stayed polite and let his ignorance slide .

You best getting new passport if back in france and if come back on visa exempt have onward flight, 20K+ funds and things like hotel booking/trip schedule so hard for them refuse you .

I know france can be ballache for getting setv so other option is flying to perhaps hongkong/veitnam/cambodia/myanmar/laos and getting setv there.

somewhere with land borders tends be easiest for entry although you could come in airport easy enough on visa exempt or with setv if you prepared with required papers/money and super polite and have new passport .

 

[Nice Boyd]

Also , avoid Women Immigration Officers

[grkt]

Next time just dont fly from Europe but fly from Cambodia, so if you have to return somewhere it's to Cambodia, and you might never want to waste you time and money in Thailand anymore...

 

 

[samsensam]

12 hours ago, flyingdoc said:

There seems to be no hard and fast rule, and I can see why many people are worried.  In the UK things have been made even more difficult, by taking away the power of Thai Consulates to issue visas any more, and making it more difficult to obtain one by post from the Embassy in London.

So, to sum up, visas are now more difficult to obtain, yet V.E. entries are being arbitrarily clamped down upon.  In addition, if you have a visa as they want, and you travel around during that period, you must pay for a re-entry every single time?

Does this really encourage tourism, when some other countries nearby, issue 3 month visas, or allow visas to be obtained at the point of entry?

 

generally genuine tourists dont have any problems. it seems people who seek to use tourist visas and VEs to stay in the country long term who have issues; are such people genuine tourists?

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, StayinThailand2much said:

Weren't there reports that they started counting visa exemptions a few years ago, with six or more in a passport being reason to scrutinize the passport holder's travels to Thailand?

The policy is still in effect. It is actually not based on the number of visa exempt entries in your current passport. It is based on the number registered in immigration's database since around the middle of 2015.

[Ron19]

A post against forum rules has been removed.

 

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[HampiK]

8 hours ago, Nice Boyd said:

Also , avoid Women Immigration Officers

Why?

Mostly they work faster. The woman officer I had always were friendly.

[prb]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

The policy is still in effect. It is actually not based on the number of visa exempt entries in your current passport. It is based on the number registered in immigration's database since around the middle of 2015.

 

That would mean that extensions are not? If yes, a good reason to get a new passport then..

[BuckBee]

^

Immigration computer is just one side of it and may flag you when they scan your passport, they also looking at your passport and page after page of setv and laos stickers for example rings alarm bells. Swampy and DM are being quite fussy and have been for some while. You can see the extra scrutiny and less lapse approach, even an under 24hr overstay gets more abrupt unfriendly approach than use to at swampy . Most people who get hassle simply made no effort on passport, onward flight and funds and probably had bad verbal approach with immigration . If you coming a lot on setv you going need make more effort and have money and expect an interview .

I don't think it be long before a limit on setv per year is bought in, most of the remaining illegal working farang are using back to back setv and swampy and DM keen on catching them . Even land borders giving warnings and limiting entry days for few people  who used crossings loads in a pretty much back to back way .

Edited May 15, 2018 by BuckBee

[prb]

5 hours ago, BuckBee said:

^

Immigration computer is just one side of it and may flag you when they scan your passport, they also looking at your passport and page after page of setv and laos stickers for example rings alarm bells. Swampy and DM are being quite fussy and have been for some while. You can see the extra scrutiny and less lapse approach, even an under 24hr overstay gets more abrupt unfriendly approach than use to at swampy . Most people who get hassle simply made no effort on passport, onward flight and funds and probably had bad verbal approach with immigration . If you coming a lot on setv you going need make more effort and have money and expect an interview .

I don't think it be long before a limit on setv per year is bought in, most of the remaining illegal working farang are using back to back setv and swampy and DM keen on catching them . Even land borders giving warnings and limiting entry days for few people  who used crossings loads in a pretty much back to back way .

SETV would be a good option, but first i don't have a regular job, so no employment certificate and second if i can show proof of funds largely exceeding the 5000€ or something that they want to see, that money is of course not sleeping in my current account. So that's it.

 

Just done an extension of my Visa exemption, 2000 THB gone and a flight ticket to Yangoon that i wanted to visit lost.

After 13 years of regular trips, that will be probably my last stay in Thailand like that.

Next time i will have new passport and a tourist visa, if there is a next time: although not as well balanced as Thailand for safety, activities, infrastructure, nightlife etc... other ASEAN countries have a lot to offer too and many of them are cheaper. Ahaha no, i'm not bitter 

Edited May 15, 2018 by prb

[Russell17au]

A new passport will not remove your information that is on the Thai immigration database. Remember that when you apply for your new passport you will have to supply all your information so that it can be put on your new passport, so the same name, the same date of birth, the same nationality, so when the new passport is placed in the reader when you arrive back in Thailand it is going to bring up your complete visa history which is on the database here in Thailand. Which will bring up more red flags to the IO. You should really look at the amount of time you are spending and the amount of time you want to spend in Thailand in the future and stop trying to take short cuts and apply for the right visa.

[BuckBee]

4 hours ago, prb said:

SETV would be a good option, but first i don't have a regular job, so no employment certificate and second if i can show proof of funds largely exceeding the 5000€ or something that they want to see, that money is of course not sleeping in my current account. So that's it.

 

Just done an extension of my Visa exemption, 2000 THB gone and a flight ticket to Yangoon that i wanted to visit lost.

After 13 years of regular trips, that will be probably my last stay in Thailand like that.

Next time i will have new passport and a tourist visa, if there is a next time: although not as well balanced as Thailand for safety, activities, infrastructure, nightlife etc... other ASEAN countries have a lot to offer too and many of them are cheaper. Ahaha no, i'm not bitter 

You don't need a regular job or funds for a setv, I know France is big pain for setv but you can pick them up from loas, hongkong, veitnam and also yangon which a pleasant little trip with nothing more than basic paperwork/photos and a smile .

 

[BuckBee]

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

A new passport will not remove your information that is on the Thai immigration database. Remember that when you apply for your new passport you will have to supply all your information so that it can be put on your new passport, so the same name, the same date of birth, the same nationality, so when the new passport is placed in the reader when you arrive back in Thailand it is going to bring up your complete visa history which is on the database here in Thailand. Which will bring up more red flags to the IO. You should really look at the amount of time you are spending and the amount of time you want to spend in Thailand in the future and stop trying to take short cuts and apply for the right visa.

New passport can make a huge difference, they only take notice of computer if alerts on a select entry pattern, they still looking at passports for O and tourist visa issue patterns so a new passport helps,  this from personal experience and watching others get hassle at the booths over the years plus advise from people working in visa and immigration network, also helps using local asian regions for setv issue .Good effort on passport, paperwork and getting visas over constant visa exempt entry would save all the drama. Having said that if OP came back after break of like 6months with new passport, onward flight and 20k baht in his pocket he get in on 30day exemption and if wanted stay much longer could then do his desired yangon trip and get a setv at the yangon consulate . That would give the OP almost 5 months if done extension on both your first visa exempt entry and setv entry .

Edited May 15, 2018 by BuckBee

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, BuckBee said:

New passport can make a huge difference, they only take notice of computer if alerts on a select entry pattern, they still looking at passports for O and tourist visa issue patterns so a new passport helps,  this from personal experience and watching others get hassle at the booths over the years plus advise from people working in visa and immigration network, also helps using local asian regions for setv issue .Good effort on passport, paperwork and getting visas over constant visa exempt entry would save all the drama. Having said that if OP came back after break of like 6months with new passport, onward flight and 20k baht in his pocket he get in on 30day exemption and if wanted stay much longer could then do his desired yangon trip and get a setv at the yangon consulate .

there is already a flag on him by the looks of things seeing that he has been warned to have a visa next time and that will be on the database so even with a new passport that flag will still come up because the information on the new passport will be the same as on the information page of his old passport, the only things that will be missing are the entry and exit stamps and any visa's that he had in his old passport. Mine is from personal experience as well but from a different side to yours