Excise official offers to make amends to tourists hit with liquor fine

[new2here]

51 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

It is interesting that the Excise lads, who wait outside the B and C Customs exits, knew to swoop in on the two Singaporeans who made the purchase. 

 

One assumes that the King Power staff knowingly made a 'questionable' sale, and then tipped off the Excise staff, while being unaware that these two were part of a larger group.

 

Consolidating a purchase among more than one individual wouldn't seem to be "illegal", but there are so many "laws" here one never knows. Ideally, each individual should have passed through the green channel with just one liter.

 

The Excise staff at SBIA/BKK are doing really well. There are countless stories on Thai social media of Thais getting shaken down on arrival, and having to pay off-book "fines". The typical fine, regardless of items, seems to be 30,000 baht. (Note that many of these Thais may be exceeding the relatively paltry DF allowance. Meanwhile, cabin staff and higher echelon types waltz in with all sorts of goodies, often for resale or gifting.)

 

 

That’s the part of the law that to me at least is a bit less-than-clear... that being how does limits apply when the passenger is a part of a larger group.

 

While limits are always expressed on a per person basis, what I’m not clear on is what does the law say, or not, as to the issue of actual possession while in clearance...  is it that while passing through customs each person must carry or have direct and independent control his/her own limits?  If “pooling” is allowed, how does that work then?

 

IF it says that the quantity one person has in their individual possession is deemed to be the sole property of that one person, regardless if he/she is carrying the legal limits for two or more persons, then that’s pretty clear — everyone carries their own...

 

I think this may need better clarity.

[new2here]

38 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

Land of the tourist shakedown !  The farangs and other tourists are viewed as prey by Thai police. Very sad.

Speaking to this story only....  

 

But if one person had in their possession more than what is allowed - and the law does not provide for “grouping” of goods for Customs clearance purposes, is that still a “shakedown”?.... or would that be better defined as the correct application of law?

 

i don’t disagree that there are shakedowns here... but... in THIS case as I read it, I’m not so sure that there was any shakedown going on, but perhaps was a misunderstanding if you will, over the process of carrying, vis-a-vis declaring goods when more than one person is traveling but goods have been centralized for carriage purposes (like baggage allowance) prior to presentation at the customs inspection channel.

[r136dg]

19 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

My wife is the same, They are cowards when dealing with officials, and apologizing to them that you don't understand. I try never to involve her in discussions, unless she is also angry with them! or confident to push in to get things moving to her advantage.

Yep, it's a phenomena here, ie: during construction on our house my wife would mai bpen rai my arguments off. Left me taking the fights to the contractors with my broken Thai kon diow. After continuous problems & me explaining to her why issues are unexceptable something happened. ???  She got on board & helped resolve issues with a vengeance. 

[mikebell]

With King Power having the monopoly on duty free at BKK and having had their 'shop-lifting' scam exposed, perhaps they are looking for a new angle?

[Sydebolle]

Well, and millions of potential tourists read this again - considering the fact, that smuggled booze is available in abundant supply.

Had a restaurant and once a month I got calls (all Thais) offering me all sorts of firewaters at prices considerably below the official price. But yeah, as long as certain spirits costs 250% of the same product offered in (duty paid) Laos ...... 

These taxes are kept artificially high so some crooks can line their pockets again. 

[Eagleizer]

Never heard of people being taxed as a group. If you carry more than the

allowed amount, you are responsible as single person.

[spidermike007]

It would appear by the replies, that alot of posters here are not aware of just how lucrative the customs positions are. Just like the police officers with any rank, a mid level customs officer actually purchases his rank, for a significant amount of money. I have been told five million baht is typical. These are franchises. They are major family investments. If it were not for social media, this would have just been another in a series of thousands of shakedowns. This happens daily. Of course, the fact that these travelers were sharing 6 bottles amongst 14 people should have been taken into account. More logically, they should have spread the bottles out, one per bag. But regardless, this was a shakedown pure and simple, and fortunately the criminals in customs were called out.

 

If these guys are brought before their superiors, they will be told to be more careful, and not get caught, as it upsets the distribution of income all the way up the food chain. 

[bluesofa]

17 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

19 hours ago, webfact said:

“Although they carried six bottles, they came as a group. So, we can be lenient,” he said. 

Yeah, right, that’s what you’re doing...

"We can be lenient" is New-Speak, and  translates into normal English: "We were caught fleecing the tourists, so will try to back down avoiding losing face."

It's frightening how these Orwell phrases slip into almost any conversation recently.

 

I notice too, "the Thai official said on condition of anonymity". Back to the good old 'avoiding responsibility'.

 

[kcpattaya]

[PerkinsCuthbert]

15 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Back in 2013 me and the Mrs arrived at Swampy from New Zealand.   We had two Litres between us and they had been sealed in one bag, so Customs tried to take them off us and fine us because they said they should be in a separate bag for each person.   It didn't work out well for them because i stood my ground and demanded to see the most Senior Officer on duty and said i was not moving until he attended because i know that what they were trying to do was a scam.   I might add this was with the added difficulty of my wife being typically Thai and trying to get us out of there without the booze and the fine !    After a few minutes they realised i wasn't going to budge and they said 'just this once we will let you go through with it'.

 

The next day i wrote a letter of serious complaint and had the wife translate it to Thai before sending it to the Chief Customs Officer at Swampy.  Still waiting for a reply five years later !

 

14 hours ago, ChiangMaiLightning2143 said:

Customs have been doing this for years. Fine sounds familiar Know of an old couple from my Condo (Japanese) smuggling Saki fleeced for 30,000 baht!

"Smuggling"? Sounds like self-confessed guilt to me. Where's the beef?

[Khun Paul]

I suggest buy bottled water, colour it, then pass it off as whiskey ( over the limit ) refuse to pay fine and leave it with them. After a while they will be scammers as they try to pass it off. lesson learned ...never but what fun ..

[bluesofa]

5 minutes ago, Khun Paul said:

I suggest buy bottled water, colour it, then pass it off as whiskey ( over the limit ) refuse to pay fine and leave it with them. After a while they will be scammers as they try to pass it off. lesson learned ...never but what fun ..

Ha ha! Out-scamming the scammers!

Perhaps a Nigerian could help with that - only judging from news reports, of course.

 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

At a guess, Thai customs officials are acting within a grey area of the law, and as is often the case here, it is the drafting of the law which allows what people call the 'scam' to take place. As posted on multiple websites, including IATA's, the law allows for one litre of alcohol per passenger to be imported duty free. What is not specified is that it should be wrapped and carried separately by each passenger, and therein lies the opportunity for the scam. That, and the usual intimidation from government officials of weary tourists just off the plane is enough to make it successful in most cases. Those who stand up to the officer will usually find that they back down, all other factors being equal, since, as in the present case, the resultant publicity does no good at all for the almighty god of Thai tourism.

[watcharacters]

15 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

Back in 2013 me and the Mrs arrived at Swampy from New Zealand.   We had two Litres between us and they had been sealed in one bag, so Customs tried to take them off us and fine us because they said they should be in a separate bag for each person.   It didn't work out well for them because i stood my ground and demanded to see the most Senior Officer on duty and said i was not moving until he attended because i know that what they were trying to do was a scam.   I might add this was with the added difficulty of my wife being typically Thai and trying to get us out of there without the booze and the fine !    After a few minutes they realised i wasn't going to budge and they said 'just this once we will let you go through with it'.

 

The next day i wrote a letter of serious complaint and had the wife translate it to Thai before sending it to the Chief Customs Officer at Swampy.  Still waiting for a reply five years later !

 

Good for you trainman.

 

I'd kind of wonder what your wife really translated.   Keeping up what you describe as the Thai way of interacting, she may have written that she had a wonderful time at the airport and found the officials friendly and helpful. 

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, Khun Paul said:

I suggest buy bottled water, colour it, then pass it off as whiskey ( over the limit ) refuse to pay fine and leave it with them. After a while they will be scammers as they try to pass it off. lesson learned ...never but what fun ..

Pre common market the allowance to UK was 1 litre spirits and 2 litres wine. One place in Spain would fill 2 x 1 litre wine bottles with your favourite whisky, cork and seal it for you to bring into UK.

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

At a guess, Thai customs officials are acting within a grey area of the law, and as is often the case here, it is the drafting of the law which allows what people call the 'scam' to take place. As posted on multiple websites, including IATA's, the law allows for one litre of alcohol per passenger to be imported duty free. What is not specified is that it should be wrapped and carried separately by each passenger, and therein lies the opportunity for the scam. That, and the usual intimidation from government officials of weary tourists just off the plane is enough to make it successful in most cases. Those who stand up to the officer will usually find that they back down, all other factors being equal, since, as in the present case, the resultant publicity does no good at all for the almighty god of Thai tourism.

That's interesting regarding each passenger carrying their own allowance.

I can understand it, and I'm not arguing. Can you say definitely the regulations don't state it should be carried per passenger?

Is this only Thai regulations you're referring to, or is it a more international thing?

 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

3 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

That's interesting regarding each passenger carrying their own allowance.

I can understand it, and I'm not arguing. Can you say definitely the regulations don't state it should be carried per passenger?

Is this only Thai regulations you're referring to, or is it a more international thing?

 

I can only tell you that a quick search in English does not turn up such a closely-worded definition, and I suspect that ambiguity is what is used to perpetrate the 'scam'. The regulation in Thai may be more exact, but based on similar loose drafting in other areas, I doubt it.

[bluesofa]

16 hours ago, trainman34014 said:

{snipped}

The next day i wrote a letter of serious complaint and had the wife translate it to Thai before sending it to the Chief Customs Officer at Swampy.  Still waiting for a reply five years later !

 

I'm not trying to be clever here, but as someone who also fails to get responses to letters/emails here, it has just occurred to me that a ploy could be to mark the letter "cc. Head of TAT, also Office of the Prime Minister" irrespective of whether you did send them copies or not.

 

I bet the Chief Customs officer would more than likely do something, knowing those higher up the food chain had been informed.

 

[Jimbo53]

19 hours ago, z42 said:

Despicable. So many red flags in this story.

How can the fines be negotiated without it being just a shakedown? Surely the fine is non-negotiable.

 

Am sorry but it is clear who has form. Thais in a uniform appear to be unable to help themselves.

 

Good on the travellers for putting the heat on the perps (to a point)

5 years ago i had 9 family members come to Pattaya for my 60th birthday party,they had a couple of cartons of cigarettes over the allowance,went through the green nothing to declare exit...and were pulled up outside on their way to their transfer bus to the Centara Grand Hotel in Naklua by customs guys,and taken to a room,the scam seemed to be at King Power,the girl puts all the cartons of fags in one bag,and the customs did not take into account that they had all shown a passport for their allowance..to add insult to injury,the thieving barstewards only gave them back TWO cartons,after paying a 42K baht Fine....which initially was 67K,but my gf family member is a high ranking Govt official...and got it reduced....but still a ridiculous and disgusting way to treat tourists,some of them on a first and last trip to Thailand....result is 9 Tourists and their families and friends will never come back to Thailand...TIT.......TAT.

[terryofcrete]

18 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Yeah, right, that’s what you’re doing...

Thai Authorities just making a disgrace of themselves, as usual. it’s like going to a 3rd world corrupt country in Africa where you are always afraid of being accused in the wrong by the police / army/ authorities in general. Thailand does not deserve the number of visitors it gets. Need to show respect for those funding this “ do very little” country.

[Sprigger]

My patience as all but run out with this scummy mob here,, South America for me.

[toofarnorth]

59 minutes ago, Khun Paul said:

I suggest buy bottled water, colour it, then pass it off as whiskey ( over the limit ) refuse to pay fine and leave it with them. After a while they will be scammers as they try to pass it off. lesson learned ...never but what fun ..

I have an idea what you could colour it with. While here..............................

Yesterday my wife went to Myanmar with a friend and brought back between them 400 cigs. and a litre bottle of Jameson Whiskey ............500B.  and a bottle of Jack for 600B.

Both carried in seperate bags of course as once my wife put both packs of cigs in one bag ( my m8 doesn't smoke ) and the chap laughed at customs when my wife said " Solly hers not mine ". Sometimes it is nice to live 20k south of the border.

[Golden Triangle]

4 years ago me & the Mrs got pulled in by the customs guys, they have spotters in the baggage hall and we had about 5 suitcases as I was bringing a lot of personal stuff back from the UK, we also had our duty free which consisted of 2 bottles of my favourite gin, a bottle of whisky for the taxi driver and 400 fags, so the only thing we were over the limit on was the whisky.

 

It was quite amusing in the little search room that they took us to as all the suitcases were locked and I had all the keys in my wallet, so they asked me to unlock them all, that took quite a while as I hadn't marked the keys so it was all a bit pot luck which key unlocked which suitcase.

 

Anyway, it all went very well, I told them that the whisky was for the taxi driver as a present as he was a Thai friend of the family, and one gin was for me and the other for the Mrs the same thing for the ciggies.

 

No fine, no confiscation, so my point is if a couple can bring in 2 liters of spirits and tobacco carried by just one person why can that same example not carry over to a group ? I'm sure many couples have passed through customs all over the world with just one bag of duty free between them.

[shy coconut]

4 hours ago, alfalfa19 said:

well, these dillweeds are claiming that the bottles belonged to only two of the tourists.   

If they were carried by only 2 of the group,  what other conclusion could they come to?

Edited May 26, 2018 by shy coconut

[trainman34014]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

There is no "group allowance"

Limits are on an individual basis

In any 'normal' country common sense comes into play.  Sadly; common sense is a rare commodity in Thailand which will probably never achieve 'normal' status !

[dabhand]

3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

It is interesting that the Excise lads, who wait outside the B and C Customs exits, knew to swoop in on the two Singaporeans who made the purchase. 

 

One assumes that the King Power staff knowingly made a 'questionable' sale, and then tipped off the Excise staff, while being unaware that these two were part of a larger group.

 

/snip

 

If you clicked on the link in the OP you will note that the bottles were bought in Singapore. Nothing to do with KP.

[FritsSikkink]

21 hours ago, z42 said:

Despicable. So many red flags in this story.

How can the fines be negotiated without it being just a shakedown? Surely the fine is non-negotiable.

 

Am sorry but it is clear who has form. Thais in a uniform appear to be unable to help themselves.

 

Good on the travellers for putting the heat on the perps (to a point)

The travelers did a stupid thing to divide the 6 bottles over 2 bags, carry one each and no problem

[sikishrory]

There was a story a year or 2 ago where they were busted confiscating duty free stuff then reselling it. I doubt an operation as deep rooted as that would just dissapear overnight. 

Unfortunately regardless of how much this country scams, thieves, bashes, rapes, murders its tourists there is also gonna be millions of gullible fresh meat arriving undeterred each year.

People will never stop coming

[moontang]

Sounds like the Sings were gaming the system, and just planned on saying it was their group, if caught, when it was solely theirs.  Laws are per person...otherwise, their would be people attaching themselves to CHinese tour groups and bringing cases in.  Try bringing an apple from your airline into the US....call it rape if you want to, but will still be a big fine.

[sanemax]

27 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

In any 'normal' country common sense comes into play.  Sadly; common sense is a rare commodity in Thailand which will probably never achieve 'normal' status !

Most Countries have restrictions placed on the individual .

Its quite normal for each person to be judged by what hes carrying .

It would be nice if you could just read the story, without resorting to Thai bashing